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The rulebook contains plenty of errors, or missing information, or just plain wrong information, don't think it's the sole source of canon.

So those the codexes...

sirrah wrote:

Glowcat wrote:I think it would be pretty safe to ignore it as a fluff from a goofier and less well-thought era. After all, the combined lifeforms of a single planet which haven't even begun to reach population limits would be like a mote of dust (or, if you will, a blue spec) compared to the vast sector-spanning empires which were running about at that time and before. A sudden burst of Chaos Gods born due to negligible human activity can be eliminated by logic, if not simply ignored due to being colossally poor writing.

People are always extremely ready to dismiss Realm of Chaos era fluff as "goofy and less well-thought", and this is a pet peeve of mine. Pre-RoC, RT fluff has some pretty massive discrepancies with current fluff, but this isn't due to goofiness or poor writing, simply backgroud in a new universe taking some time to settle. The Realm of Chaos books solidifed the 40k fluff into what it is today, and the vast majority of the books' background has never been retconned (indeed, a lot of it has been rewritten into the game after falling absent during 2E, e.g., the Slaan/Old Ones).

Prior to the rise of mankind, the only "sector-spanning empire" (aside from Orks, who the Chaos Gods have never held any particular interest in) that I'm aware of is the Eldar, who certainly hold their fair share of responsibility for the birth of all 4 Chaos Gods. Mankind is suggested as being somewhat special in being an emergent psychic race with no (yet) collective warp entity to protect them from Chaos, the Eldar, who were psychic since creation, always had their gods to keep them from the jaws of the emerging chaos threat, but humanity is an open buffet to Chaos.

You realize that a large part of that settling is removing some truly stupid ideas, right? It is a pruning process which will hopefully result in a more cohesive setting. The entire thing might not need to be condemned but it's odd for you to deny the existence of bad writing when the current contention was one such piece. Not only is the birth of 3/4 Chaos gods in a short period of humanity's history uninteresting compared to Slaanesh but it makes for a poor story which exceeds the limits of willing suspension of disbelief. Lazy GMs have come up with better explanations than that used for Khorne/Nurgle/Tzeentchs' births.

And there were more multi-sector empires than the Eldar, not to mention system-bound species with more population than even modern day humanity. The Imperium still runs across them or their ruins in the 41st Millennium. These are the minor races you don't often hear about because the fluff never focuses on them much.

Brother Coa wrote:For other codexes yes, but this is not codex - this is main Rulebook and it's fluff contradicts even those of the codex. It is also stated that Human rase is starting to lose war for it's survival, I toughs you would be happy to hear that

You seem to be under the impression that rulebook fluff overrules codex fluff, and that all codices are somehow "written" by their faction as propaganda (Lol at the idea of Necron and Tyranid propaganda).

That's just not true. Hell, the rulebook fluff is blatantly from an Imperial point of view, so you could argue it is less concrete.

Nids and Necrons don't need propaganda, just a menu

Coa has already referred to Necron fluff as Necron propaganda. That's what warranted the comment.

Necron propaganda. Could be interesting. I'm sure the Deciever has some. Half of the Chaos gods don't go in for propaganda either. Guess which.

There are like two or three instances of a Necron talking to someone in the fluff I can recall, and one of the Deceiver.

Who is the propaganda for?

Slaanesh and Tzeentch of course. The other two tell you they're going to eat your soul.

Void__Dragon wrote:You seem to be under the impression that rulebook fluff overrules codex fluff,

It does because it has Space Marine fluff, Imperial Gaurd fluff, Ork fluff, Tyranid fluff, Necron fluff etc... It's fluff is above the codex fluff ( since every codex glorify that race, while Rulebook fluff don't ).

and that all codices are somehow "written" by their faction as propaganda (Lol at the idea of Necron and Tyranid propaganda).

They are. Like Necrons are numberless and have super-mega-killing tech and Tyranids are numberless and they have eaten like several galaxies already - that's propaganda to me.

That's just not true. Hell, the rulebook fluff is blatantly from an Imperial point of view, so you could argue it is less concrete.

It's not just Imperial - it has other faction in it. But if you don't believe it's fluff that's ok - just don't force others not to believe in it to.

Brother Coa wrote:It does because it has Space Marine fluff, Imperial Gaurd fluff, Ork fluff, Tyranid fluff, Necron fluff etc... It's fluff is above the codex fluff ( since every codex glorify that race, while Rulebook fluff don't ).

The rulebook's fluff, until it actually starts describing individual armies, is blatantly from an Imperial point of view. So no, it doesn't overrule it.

They are. Like Necrons are numberless and have super-mega-killing tech and Tyranids are numberless and they have eaten like several galaxies already - that's propaganda to me.

Funnily enough everything you just said is in the rulebook fluff. Necrons in every piece of fluff are legion, and their technology is second to none, this is fact. Same with Tyranids eating several galaxies.

It's not just Imperial - it has other faction in it. But if you don't believe it's fluff that's ok - just don't force others not to believe in it to.

I will believe the Emperor holds back Daemons from spilling into the Warp because it directly says so and as far as I know no other source contradicts that.

The rulebook has perhaps three one line Ork quotes.

Codices don't glorify the races, they give their history. The story bits glorify them, sure, but that's just storytelling. No one wants just a timeline for their fluff.

I've never heard the numberless Necrons idea before, but there are a lot of them, and they do have super-mega-killing tech. So does the Imperium. Tyranids are essentially numberless, and it's entirely possible they've eaten several galaxies.

It's impossible to force someone not to believe someone. The best you can do is show them facts (eg, the Horus Heresy history in the Chaos 'dex which at no point says that the Chaos side was any better than the Imperium, or anything like that) and hope they change their mind.

Void__Dragon wrote:
The rulebook's fluff, until it actually starts describing individual armies, is blatantly from an Imperial point of view. So no, it doesn't overrule it.

Funny because I could have sworn to see Eldar, Dark Eldar, Ork, Tyranid, Chaos... in rulebook. And fluff related from THEIR point of view.
Rulebook is above codex, because it is universal. It doesn't have just IMPERIAL fluff, it has pieces of fluff from everybody.
Unless you can prove otherwise - leave it.



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Durza wrote:
Codices don't glorify the races, they give their history. The story bits glorify them, sure, but that's just storytelling. No one wants just a timeline for their fluff.

All codexes glorify their races. Just ask anybody. In every codex you will find very little defeat of one faction while you can read about their defeats in others. And every codex praise it's race like it is the strongest ( just see fanboys that didn't even read other codex fluff ).




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Void__Dragon wrote:
Funnily enough everything you just said is in the rulebook fluff. Necrons in every piece of fluff are legion, and their technology is second to none, this is fact. Same with Tyranids eating several galaxies.

Funny because I read that even in their codexes. Only in rulebook I didn't read about "Great Hive Fleet" or "Great undying Legions of Necrons".

I will believe the Emperor holds back Daemons from spilling into the Warp because it directly says so and as far as I know no other source contradicts that.

Thank the Emperor that you say this. After all my trouble you finally admit that Emperor is more then just dead corpse on the chair.

I guess you missed the necron tagline then

"they are legion, their name is death'

The fluff is almost entirely from the IOM's point of view. Nearly evberything known of the Necrons is from Human or Eldar sources.

In said fluff it is made pretty clear that the IOM can't even begin to figure out Necron tech. They haven't a fething clue how it works. It is also immutable (until Ward mutes it anyway)fact that their tech was more advanced than the race that created the Eldar, Humanity, Orks etc etc.

It is made very very clear in BFG (from the POV of the IOM no less) that Necron ships are so far superior to IOM ones that it is damn near suicidal to engage them..

It is a bit odd for the enemy (the IOM) to be writing the Necron's propaganda for them ,wouldn't you say?

The same would apply to the Nids. They don't exactly post leaflets on their manifesto or appear on tv interviews. Everything 'propaganda' about the Nids is from IOM or Eldar sources.


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All codexes glorify their races. Just ask anybody. In every codex you will find very little defeat of one faction while you can read about their defeats in others. And every codex praise it's race like it is the strongest ( just see fanboys that didn't even read other codex fluff ). - Brother Coa


The Nids and Necrons are usually listed more for their defeats than their victories. They've even rewritten victories for these races into defeats with the IOM being the heroes. THAT's propaganda

When there are codexes out there that have only one or two token 'losses' in their list of victories you can be damn sure the codex is about Power Armour of one colour or another.


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'They are. Like Necrons are numberless and have super-mega-killing tech and Tyranids are numberless and they have eaten like several galaxies already - that's propaganda to me.' -Brother Coa



Rulebook pg 166-

'behind the hive fleets lie the barren husks of a dozen galaxies already consumed' - they nommed. Deal with it.

Pg 167 Rulebook

'In this way the tyranids constantly evolve and replenish their innumerable hordes. Unrelenting and all but unstoppable, the Tyranid race represents the eventual doom of every other race that inhabits the galaxy.'

They are innumerable- numberless - there's lots of them!


If you refuse to accept rulebook fluff you don't like and claim it as non-accurate i'll happily use the same standard on the IOM, as the Departmento Propagandum is apparently working overtime

Brother Coa wrote:Funny because I could have sworn to see Eldar, Dark Eldar, Ork, Tyranid, Chaos... in rulebook. And fluff related from THEIR point of view.
Rulebook is above codex, because it is universal. It doesn't have just IMPERIAL fluff, it has pieces of fluff from everybody.
Unless you can prove otherwise - leave it.

Why did you ignore the first part of that sentence? The first IIRC thirty or so pages of the rulebook fluff is from an Imperial point of view.

And no, you have to prove that rulebook fluff overrides codex fluff, you made the claim, the burden of proof is on you. Unless you have a statement that says rulebook>Codices, you're making gak up.

All codexes glorify their races. Just ask anybody. In every codex you will find very little defeat of one faction while you can read about their defeats in others. And every codex praise it's race like it is the strongest ( just see fanboys that didn't even read other codex fluff ).

Ever read the Eldar codex? Which has the Eldar losing more than winning? Or the Tyranid codex, which is the same (Although all of their losses usually are pyrrhic victories)? Or the Dark Eldar codex, which had 500 Space Marines feth up Commorragh? Not every codex is the Grey Knight codex (Which IIRC has all of like one loss, maybe). Granted, the Necron codex doesn't have any Necron losses, but the Necron codex also only detailed a very few amount of battles, most of the fluff isn't about battles. But that doesn't mean gak, Necrons don't put out propaganda, neither do Tyranids.

Funny because I read that even in their codexes. Only in rulebook I didn't read about "Great Hive Fleet" or "Great undying Legions of Necrons".

I should probably elaborate on one bit: Necrons are not technically limitless. They are effectively limitless though because they don't die. But everywhere in the fluff when Necron tech is mentioned, it is the best technology in the setting, this is a fact, they are the unparalleled masters of time and space. And uh, the Tyranids certainly are said to have consumed several galaxies in the rulebook.

Thank the Emperor that you say this. After all my trouble you finally admit that Emperor is more then just dead corpse on the chair.

You can't actually find a post of mine that says the Emperor is "just" a corpse on a chair.

Nahhhh, but the emperor is a corpse hogging the john and I really need to go!

The emperor needed to win the fight with Horus for the galaxy to be thrust into eternal war. It is the struggle that makes Chaos great. If the whole galaxy was overthrown by Chaos, they would cease to be.
Just because the Emperor knows about some other god's births doesn't mean he can do anything about them. He had no means to travel to the great ocean to rid it of the gods. He was like a powerful wizard on Master of Magic. Gathering forces, watching his rivals grow in power in the underverse. The planar seal was still in place, so he could do nothing to them.

Void__Dragon wrote:
Why did you ignore the first part of that sentence? The first IIRC thirty or so pages of the rulebook fluff is from an Imperial point of view.

Because Imperium and Humanity are the center of 40k and main story goes from their point of view. But they also included others later so it's ok ( we also have like 50 pages of non-Imperial fluff ).

And no, you have to prove that rulebook fluff overrides codex fluff, you made the claim, the burden of proof is on you. Unless you have a statement that says rulebook>Codices, you're making gak up.

Ok, prove to me then that Dawn of War fluff is not valid and not important then codex fluff? Black Library fluff to? You are now imagining things and doing everything you can to get rulebook fluff retconed because it disagree with some of your viewpoints. If you can't find any official statement that Dawn of War fluff is not valid then I will use it all the time. And you find me a statement that codex fluff is above that of a rulebook. But I read a lot of statments about rulebook fluff being overpowered and that every codex glorify it's race. So we can't take it for serious then when comparing to other factions.

Ever read the Eldar codex? Which has the Eldar losing more than winning? Or the Tyranid codex, which is the same (Although all of their losses usually are pyrrhic victories)? Eldar lsoe the battle intentionally because they already know that they will win in the longer run, because they can see the future. Or the Dark Eldar codex, which had 500 Space Marines feth up Commorragh? That was hit and run mission, Dark Eldar could do the same with Holly Terra Not every codex is the Grey Knight codex (Which IIRC has all of like one loss, maybe) Grey Knights lost battle? Where? . Granted, the Necron codex doesn't have any Necron losses, but the Necron codex also only detailed a very few amount of battles, most of the fluff isn't about battles. But that doesn't mean gak, Necrons don't put out propaganda, neither do Tyranids.

"We are numberless" and "There is a great Hive Fleet coming" is not propaganda at all...

I should probably elaborate on one bit: Necrons are not technically limitless. They are effectively limitless though because they don't die. But everywhere in the fluff when Necron tech is mentioned, it is the best technology in the setting, this is a fact, they are the unparalleled masters of time and space. And uh, the Tyranids certainly are said to have consumed several galaxies in the rulebook.

Tech is ok, number ein't. Nothing is limitless, even universe have it's borders. AS for Nids we only know that they eat their own galaxy and that's it. We have no proff that they eat several more ( who ever leave Milky Way to confirm this? )

You can't actually find a post of mine that says the Emperor is "just" a corpse on a chair.

But I can find a LOT where you claimed that he has no power at all ( remember just SoB act's of faith thread ). And you think of him as a tyrant - not a savior. And that is personal attachment to your comments to.

We have been WAY from OT. LEt us return to it shall we Necron....?

Brother Coa wrote:

Void__Dragon wrote:
Why did you ignore the first part of that sentence? The first IIRC thirty or so pages of the rulebook fluff is from an Imperial point of view.

Because the Imperium and Humanity are the center of 40k and the main story goes from their point of view. But they also included others later so it's ok ( we also have like 50 pages of non-Imperial fluff ).

So basically you're saying it's ok the Imperium got thirty pages of propaganda because every other race got five pages each (with comments from Imperial officers) later on?

And no, you have to prove that rulebook fluff overrides codex fluff, you made the claim, the burden of proof is on you. Unless you have a statement that says rulebook>Codices, you're making gak up.

Ok, prove to me then that Dawn of War fluff is not valid and not important then codex fluff? Black Library fluff to? You are now imagining things and doing everything you can to get rulebook fluff retconed because it disagrees with some of your viewpoints. If you can't find any official statement that Dawn of War fluff is not valid then I will use it all the time. And you find me a statement that codex fluff is above that of a rulebook. But I read a lot of statments about rulebook fluff being overpowered and that every codex glorifies its race. So we can't take it seroiusly then when comparing it to other factions.

As I said before, the only parts of a codex which act like this are the narrative sections written specifically to make a certain hero or special unit in the codex look cool. The majority of codex fluff is non-biased. He hasn't said that rulebook fluff should be retconned, just that it isn't the only source of fluff in the game.

Ever read the Eldar codex? Which has the Eldar losing more than winning? Or the Tyranid codex, which is the same (Although all of their losses usually are pyrrhic victories)? Eldar lsoe the battle intentionally because they already know that they will win in the longer run, because they can see the future. Or the Dark Eldar codex, which had 500 Space Marines feth up Commorragh? That was hit and run mission, Dark Eldar could do the same with Holly Terra Not every codex is the Grey Knight codex (Which IIRC has all of like one loss, maybe) Grey Knights lost battle? Where? . Granted, the Necron codex doesn't have any Necron losses, but the Necron codex also only detailed a very few amount of battles, most of the fluff isn't about battles. But that doesn't mean gak, Necrons don't put out propaganda, neither do Tyranids.

"We are numberless" and "There is a great Hive Fleet coming" is not propaganda at all...

No, it's not. The Necrons are essentially numberless. The Hive fleet is fething massive. 'Great' is a pretty accurate adjective.

I should probably elaborate on one bit: Necrons are not technically limitless. They are effectively limitless though because they don't die. But everywhere in the fluff when Necron tech is mentioned, it is the best technology in the setting, this is a fact, they are the unparalleled masters of time and space. And uh, the Tyranids certainly are said to have consumed several galaxies in the rulebook.

Tech is ok, number aren't. Nothing is limitless, even universe have it's borders. AS for Nids we only know that they eat their own galaxy and that's it. We have no proff that they eat several more ( who ever leaves the Milky Way to confirm this?)

The rulebook says the Tyranids have devoured galaxies, you can't dismiss it as codex propaganda.

Durza wrote:
So basically you're saying it's ok the Imperium got thirty pages of propaganda because every other race got five pages each (with comments from Imperial officers) later on?

There was a thread about that. And most people agree that it would be stupid to have any other faction as main protagonist because they are not Humans. And rulebook fluff isn't propaganda, it's overall rewiev of that faction. Codex are faction propaganda.

As I said before, the only parts of a codex which act like this are the narrative sections written specifically to make a certain hero or special unit in the codex look cool. The majority of codex fluff is non-biased. He hasn't said that rulebook fluff should be retconned, just that it isn't the only source of fluff in the game.

True, none of us said that codex or rulebook fluff is retconed. I just want to prove to him that rulebook fluff is as important as those of the codex. And it is not "cool", the main story for 40k always start: "In the Grim Darkness of the far future there is only war. For 10.000 years the Imperium of Mankind...".

The rulebook says the Tyranids have devoured galaxies, you can't dismiss it as codex propaganda.

Only a dozen. That is not propaganda, some large Hive Fleet the size of the galaxy is.


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Durza wrote:
No, it's not. The Necrons are essentially numberless. The Hive fleet is fething massive. 'Great' is a pretty accurate adjective.

Nothing is numberless, even this universe ( it has borders you know ). And only prof of this "main" Hive Fleet is theory of a several Imperial schoolars. Just a theory, but it served well as Nid propaganda

Brother Coa wrote:

Durza wrote:
So basically you're saying it's ok the Imperium got thirty pages of propaganda because every other race got five pages each (with comments from Imperial officers) later on?

There was a thread about that. And most people agree that it would be stupid to have any other faction as main protagonist because they are not Humans. And rulebook fluff isn't propaganda, it's overall rewiev of that faction. Codex are faction propaganda.

There's propaganda fluff in the rulebook, just like there's propaganda fluff in the codices. There's also non-biased fluff in both.

As I said before, the only parts of a codex which act like this are the narrative sections written specifically to make a certain hero or special unit in the codex look cool. The majority of codex fluff is non-biased. He hasn't said that rulebook fluff should be retconned, just that it isn't the only source of fluff in the game.

True, none of us said that codex or rulebook fluff is retconed. I just want to prove to him that rulebook fluff is as important as those of the codex. And it is not "cool", the main story for 40k always start: "In the Grim Darkness of the far future there is only war. For 10.000 years the Imperium of Mankind...".

I can only hope you're deliberately mis reading me here. I wasn't talking about the introduction. I was talking about the sections in the rulebook and codices that say things like 'And so the great hero of the Imperium cast down the champion of Chaos' rather than 'Battle on X planet in year Y. Imperium victorious. Squad 3 sentenced to death posthumously for failure to report.'

The rulebook says the Tyranids have devoured galaxies, you can't dismiss it as codex propaganda.

Only a dozen. That is not propaganda, some large Hive Fleet the size of the galaxy is.

Only a dozen?

Durza wrote:
No, it's not. The Necrons are essentially numberless. The Hive fleet is fething massive. 'Great' is a pretty accurate adjective.

Nothing is numberless, even this universe ( it has borders you know ). And only prof of this "main" Hive Fleet is theory of a several Imperial schoolars. Just a theory, but it served well as Nid propaganda

Durza wrote:
There's propaganda fluff in the rulebook, just like there's propaganda fluff in the codices. There's also non-biased fluff in both.

Propaganda is stuff like Draigo, rulebook doesn't have that for just 1 race, but for all others ( one victory for every faction ). Because all have 1 fluff background victory it is not essentially just Imperial propaganda but somewhat of universal propaganda - the induction into 40k and it's factions. And propaganda is limited, only 1 for every faction. Everything else is race background.

I can only hope you're deliberately mis reading me here. I wasn't talking about the introduction. I was talking about the sections in the rulebook and codices that say things like 'And so the great hero of the Imperium cast down the champion of Chaos' rather than 'Battle on X planet in year Y. Imperium victorious. Squad 3 sentenced to death posthumously for failure to report.'

The timeline is universal, and there are also defeats if I am not mistaken...( my point is there are not just Imperial victories there... ).

Only a dozen?

Those galaxies didn't have Angels of Death to defend them

It completely makes sense that the Majority of the rule book is from the imperial view point, most of the armies are after all imperial. in addition Humans (i.e. the imperium) enhabit the majority of the Galaxsy and are by far the biggest faction.

the whole thing of Necrons being numberless is just a figure of speach IMHO, if you see a horde as far as the eye can see you would say that it is numberless, but of course there is a back to the line and there is a finite number of necrons

Brother Coa wrote:

Durza wrote:
There's propaganda fluff in the rulebook, just like there's propaganda fluff in the codices. There's also non-biased fluff in both.

Propaganda is stuff like Draigo, rulebook doesn't have that for just 1 race, but for all others ( one victory for every faction ). Because all have 1 fluff background victory it is not essentially just Imperial propaganda but somewhat of universal propaganda - the induction into 40k and it's factions. And propaganda is limited, only 1 for every faction. Everything else is race background.

That's what I was saying. The introduction and race history isn't propaganda, but insanely powerful people stories are.

I can only hope you're deliberately mis reading me here. I wasn't talking about the introduction. I was talking about the sections in the rulebook and codices that say things like 'And so the great hero of the Imperium cast down the champion of Chaos' rather than 'Battle on X planet in year Y. Imperium victorious. Squad 3 sentenced to death posthumously for failure to report.'

The timeline is universal, and there are also defeats if I am not mistaken...( my point is there are not just Imperial victories there... ).

My point was that the second example is not propaganda, the first is. You can read it as 'The great hero of the Tyranids cast down the Necron champion' if you want.

Only a dozen?

Those galaxies didn't have Angels of Death to defend them

True I suppose.

And rulebook doesn't have those people, that is the difference between fluff from codex and fluff from rulebook - rulebook is minor fluff that introduces other factions, not book full of fluff that represent that faction as unstoppable force...

That was my point all along - that because rulebook is universal, not concentrated on one faction. Have facts instead of 1 character army stories its fluff is valid if not more valid then those of codexes.


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Durza wrote:

Only a dozen?

Those galaxies didn't have Angels of Death to defend them

True I suppose.

I am glad we agreed in the end

The problem is you're reading in-depth fluff as propaganda though. Admittedly, it would annoy players if their codices listed every loss their army had.

JamesMclaren123 wrote:It completely makes sense that the Majority of the rule book is from the imperial view point, most of the armies are after all imperial. in addition Humans (i.e. the imperium) enhabit the majority of the Galaxsy and are by far the biggest faction.

the whole thing of Necrons being numberless is just a figure of speach IMHO, if you see a horde as far as the eye can see you would say that it is numberless, but of course there is a back to the line and there is a finite number of necrons

Actually they're not. Orks are.

The Imperium stretches across the galaxy, yes, but it doesn't rule all the space it stretches over, or even most of it.

Most armies are imperial because GW refuses to give xenos equal time.


And when more necrons keep porting in at the end of the line, and stand up at the front as you kill them? Necrons aren't so much a line as a mobius strip.

Nids are numberless, as the Tervigons in the backfield are birthing as you kill and no-one has yet seen the other end of the Tyranid race (it being extragalactic). They are effectively innumerable because whilst logically there must be a finite number of them the number is impossible to track.

Brother Coa wrote:Because Imperium and Humanity are the center of 40k and main story goes from their point of view. But they also included others later so it's ok ( we also have like 50 pages of non-Imperial fluff ).

Uh, that doesn't really answer my point, which is that the fluff you are using is decidedly from an Imperial point of view. Now I don't have a problem with it, I think the fluff should be written from an Imperial point of view, for instance I find the notion of a book written from a Necron point of view kind of icky. But the fact stands, the fluff you are citing does have an Imperial point of view, and as such is just as vulnerable to the bias you claim of the codices.

Ok, prove to me then that Dawn of War fluff is not valid and not important then codex fluff? Black Library fluff to? You are now imagining things and doing everything you can to get rulebook fluff retconed because it disagree with some of your viewpoints. If you can't find any official statement that Dawn of War fluff is not valid then I will use it all the time. And you find me a statement that codex fluff is above that of a rulebook. But I read a lot of statments about rulebook fluff being overpowered and that every codex glorify it's race. So we can't take it for serious then when comparing to other factions.

Why are you asking me to prove a claim I haven't made? Are you feeling ill? I didn't say the fething rulebook should be retconned, nor did I mention Dawn of War. No, you find me a statement that rulebook fluff is above the codex fluff, because you made the claim, if you can't prove your claim, stop claiming it.

Ever read the Eldar codex? Which has the Eldar losing more than winning? Or the Tyranid codex, which is the same (Although all of their losses usually are pyrrhic victories)? Eldar lsoe the battle intentionally because they already know that they will win in the longer run, because they can see the future. Or the Dark Eldar codex, which had 500 Space Marines feth up Commorragh? That was hit and run mission, Dark Eldar could do the same with Holly Terra Not every codex is the Grey Knight codex (Which IIRC has all of like one loss, maybe) Grey Knights lost battle? Where? . Granted, the Necron codex doesn't have any Necron losses, but the Necron codex also only detailed a very few amount of battles, most of the fluff isn't about battles. But that doesn't mean gak, Necrons don't put out propaganda, neither do Tyranids.

"We are numberless" and "There is a great Hive Fleet coming" is not propaganda at all...

Eldar lose the battle intentionally? Lol. No they don't. Losing Eldar lives is typically not seen as a good thing. Their vision of the future isn't perfect. Stop making gak up. The Space Marines didn't "hit and run," they landed, made a perimeter, and spanked Dark Eldar ass. And you are out of your mind if you think the Dark Eldar could manage a successful raid of Holy Terra. The Grey Knights lost to Huron Blackheart once, it's in Grand MAster Mordrak or whatever his name is' backstory.

The Necrons don't die. Effectively, they are without number, they can't die. Oh, and uh, considering that a Great Hive Fleet IS coming... Lol.

Tech is ok, number ein't. Nothing is limitless, even universe have it's borders. AS for Nids we only know that they eat their own galaxy and that's it. We have no proff that they eat several more ( who ever leave Milky Way to confirm this? )

Try to read my post next time. Necrons are technically not limitless. But effectively, they are. They are undying, you don't kill Necrons, you delay them. No, the rulebook says they feasted on a dozen galaxies. They ate more.

But I can find a LOT where you claimed that he has no power at all ( remember just SoB act's of faith thread ). And you think of him as a tyrant - not a savior. And that is personal attachment to your comments to.

We have been WAY from OT. LEt us return to it shall we Necron....?

You can't find a single post where I said he has no power at all. You're an idiot if you think me questioning him being responsible for but one act out of many means I'm saying he has no power at all. And he was a tyrant, he was not the heroic savior of goodness you think he was.

Void__Dragon wrote:
Uh, that doesn't really answer my point, which is that the fluff you are using is decidedly from an Imperial point of view. Now I don't have a problem with it, I think the fluff should be written from an Imperial point of view, for instance I find the notion of a book written from a Necron point of view kind of icky. But the fact stands, the fluff you are citing does have an Imperial point of view, and as such is just as vulnerable to the bias you claim of the codices.

It's easy to not believe something that goes against your arguments and you are using every trick in the book to get it retconed.... (don't lie ).

Why are you asking me to prove a claim I haven't made? Are you feeling ill? I didn't say the fething rulebook should be retconned, nor did I mention Dawn of War. No, you find me a statement that rulebook fluff is above the codex fluff, because you made the claim, if you can't prove your claim, stop claiming it.

I will make it simple: I can't prove it because there is no source for this. There is also no source for your claim so I mught be right after all. Sometimes you must have faith ( but you are Necron so... that's questionable ).

Eldar lose the battle intentionally? Lol. No they don't. Losing Eldar lives is typically not seen as a good thing. Their vision of the future isn't perfect. Stop making gak up. The Space Marines didn't "hit and run," they landed, made a perimeter, and spanked Dark Eldar ass. And you are out of your mind if you think the Dark Eldar could manage a successful raid of Holy Terra. The Grey Knights lost to Huron Blackheart once, it's in Grand MAster Mordrak or whatever his name is' backstory.

The Necrons don't die. Effectively, they are without number, they can't die. Oh, and uh, considering that a Great Hive Fleet IS coming... Lol.

Ok I am done here.... ( nothing in this universe is numberless, ask Hawking ). And Eldar do lose when that is going to their profit, Space Marines did raid Commoragh - Dark Eldar should then do the same to Terra since there is no source to contradict that small strike force can infiltrate a planet. And Grey Knights didn't lost - that sob escaped.

Try to read my post next time. Necrons are technically not limitless. But effectively, they are. They are undying, you don't kill Necrons, you delay them. No, the rulebook says they feasted on a dozen galaxies. They ate more.

Proff of this claim?

You can't find a single post where I said he has no power at all. You're an idiot if you think me questioning him being responsible for but one act out of many means I'm saying he has no power at all. And he was a tyrant, he was not the heroic savior of goodness you think he was.

You are trolling me from the beginning don't you
I am done here, from this point on I will not explain anything to you. I will just post and you try to get it.
You don't deserve any explanation from me at all, about anything.

I don't know about being unable to kill necron I'm sure the wraith cannons would kill them, highly doubt they just reassemble in the warp. Also Eldar losing on purpose what? they only lose when a seer screws up and has a false vision.