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thenoobbomb wrote:

Soladrin wrote:Just wondering if there has been any other being that came close to The Emperors psychic might. I was thinking Eldrad, but I doubt it...

So yeah, that's about it, shoot away!

Sanguinius, the fluff says the only psyker better then him wa the big E.
And yes, Chuck Norris.

I think you're thinking of Magnus there, mate...

Iur_tae_mont wrote:
But fluff about the Sensei is Valid? That stuff is from 3rd edition, and has been replaced with a Tzeentchian cult in a BL book.

Even if that sentence is from a Codex from 1989, nothing has retconned the Emprah being afraid of Gork and Mork. It just hasn't been brought up again since.

Can't play that game, Coa.

I know, it just have few mistakes taht's all....
It's perfectly fine to be afraid for your children after billion Orks get up and start WARGHHH!!!!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In my opinion - Tzeentch. Because he can see the future.

That line about the Emperor being afraid didn't say he was afraid for his children. The story goes on for a few pages more before it even talks about the Emperor getting the humans ready to deal with the Ork invasion. It wasn't just the big E afraid for humans, it was the big E actually afraid because Gork and Mork had stirred in the Warp. He was afraid for himself.

Because Gork and Mork could probably curbstomp him, and unlike the other 'gods' he is tied to the materium by his corpse, which is also holding the whole of the Imperium together, supposedly... It gives him a bit of an achilles heel.

Roadkill Zombie wrote:That line about the Emperor being afraid didn't say he was afraid for his children. The story goes on for a few pages more before it even talks about the Emperor getting the humans ready to deal with the Ork invasion. It wasn't just the big E afraid for humans, it was the big E actually afraid because Gork and Mork had stirred in the Warp. He was afraid for himself.

And neither did it say that he was afraid for himself, or for waffles, or for Theodore Roosevelt. We just don't have any information of what it was that he feared about Gork and Mork.

Brother Coa wrote:In my opinion - Tzeentch. Because he can see the future.

Except he can't...

Void__Dragon wrote:

BeefCakeSoup wrote:This is where it gets hard to really tell...

Sang did break Ka'Bandahs back, but in the fight prior he had his Primarch legs broken and got knocked the f*** out. Ka"Bandah could have easily ripped his tiny little head off too while he was limp on the ground.

And the second time they fought, after Ka'Bhanda struck Sanguinius with a cowardly sneak attack, Sanguinius proceeded to snap Ka'Bhanda's back over his knee. At best, you could argue they were equals, but considering how after Sanguinius had some experience with daemons, he crushed him, it's doubtful. Do note this is in fact the strongest Bloodthirster we speak of.

Though since Sanguinius is the second or third strongest primarch, this leaves some doubt over whether the others could achieve the same feat. Note that by strongest, I meant one of two primarchs considered able to beat Angron in single combat. (I would argue that Fulgrim could have beaten him with skillage and Magnus could have ripped him apart with his mind as well, but keh)

Tzeentch CAN see the future.

Unfortunately the futuure is an everchanging mess of probability that even he can't keep straight, as it changes moment to moment, with possible futures being kind of a 'best guess' as to what will really happen...

Same goes for anyone else given to prophecy.

No, Tzeentch threw a Changer of Ways into the Well of Time to read the future for him. He can't see the future and play the Game at the same time.

even fateweaver cant see all the future
when he is injured he retreat to the warp because he fear his master is hinding something from him
so the future is uncertain lol

Durza wrote:No, Tzeentch threw a Changer of Ways into the Well of Time to read the future for him. He can't see the future and play the Game at the same time.

The changer of ways is unstable and crazy, so though he can see the future he is also unreliable.

As is everything to do with Tzeentch.

Durza wrote:Though since Sanguinius is the second or third strongest primarch, this leaves some doubt over whether the others could achieve the same feat. Note that by strongest, I meant one of two primarchs considered able to beat Angron in single combat. (I would argue that Fulgrim could have beaten him with skillage and Magnus could have ripped him apart with his mind as well, but keh)

After actually reading their first fight, I would say Sanguinius is probably stronger than Ka'Bhanda. Sanguinius was beating Ka'Bhanda in the melee, until Ka'Bhanda's whip tripped him up and broke his legs.

Though that's true, Sanguinius is certainly one of the strongest Primarchs in terms of martial combat. But Ka'Bhanda is the strongest Bloodthirster. Oh, and Corax wasn't actually sure if Sanguinius could beat Angron.

Which makes him the second or third strongest physically, since only Horus was definitely able to beat Angron.

Durza wrote:Which makes him the second or third strongest physically, since only Horus was definitely able to beat Angron.

To be honest I don't know why people think Corax is so infallible. Corax thought only Horus or maybe Sanguinius could best Angron. Dorn, on the other hand, was confident he could hand Angron his ass. Dorn then proceeded to be beaten by Curze, albeit in a sneak attack, who more or less stalemated the Lion, who stalemated/beat Leman Russ.

I've also heard mention of Leman Russ beating Horus in a duel, but I personally won't believe it until I'm given an actual source.

Eldrad does have amazing psychic powers, but none that match those of the Emperor.

Eldrad does have amazing psychic powers, but none that match those of the Emperor.

Eldrad has more psychic power in his little finger than any human has in his entire body, including the big E.

Rocky1 wrote:
Eldrad has more psychic power in his little finger than any human has in his entire body, including the big E.

That'd be why Eldrad fled from a Primarch, then.

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

Rocky1 wrote:
Eldrad has more psychic power in his little finger than any human has in his entire body, including the big E.

That'd be why Eldrad fled from a Primarch, then.

Eldrad never battled a primarch.

Jollydevil wrote:Eldrad never battled a primarch.

We know. He ran away from one. Fulgrim, to be specific. Not even one of the strongest Primarchs.

The Emperor, or Magnus for that matter, are much more powerful than Eldrad.

In Collected Visions, the Chaos Gods claim the Emperor's psychic might is devastating the Realm of Chaos. In the 5e rulebook, the Emperor's psychic might stops the worst of Chaos' predations from coming through.

The Emperor is uniquely the strongest psyker ever.

Void__Dragon wrote:

Jollydevil wrote:Eldrad never battled a primarch.

We know. He ran away from one. Fulgrim, to be specific. Not even one of the strongest Primarchs.

The Emperor, or Magnus for that matter, are much more powerful than Eldrad.

In Collected Visions, the Chaos Gods claim the Emperor's psychic might is devastating the Realm of Chaos. In the 5e rulebook, the Emperor's psychic might stops the worst of Chaos' predations from coming through.

The Emperor is uniquely the strongest psyker ever.

Where are you getting your intel from? Every source i can find hasnt said word one about Eldrad even coming near Fulgrim, or any other primarch.

Jollydevil wrote:Where are you getting your intel from? Every source i can find hasnt said word one about Eldrad even coming near Fulgrim, or any other primarch.

The Horus Heresy novel "Fulgrim."

Eldrad tried to warn Fulgrim of the Warmaster's betrayal, only to realise that Fulgrim was tainted by Chaos. Fulgrim proceeded to cut a Wave Serpent in half and crush Eldrad's Wraithlord bodyguard. Eldrad ran away, opting to sicc an Avatar of Khaine on Fulgrim. Fulgrim proceeded to kill it.

Also, Lexicanum supports this as well.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Fulgrim

"Fulgrim furiously attacked Eldrad alongside his captains and the Phoenix Guard, destroying both Khiraen Goldhelm, an ancient and revered Wraithlord as well as an Avatar of Khaine in the process, forcing Eldrad and his beleagured forces to withdraw. This victory to Fulgrim's subsequent destruction of various Eldar maiden worlds using virus bombs as a means to end the supposed treachery of the Eldar."

Void__Dragon wrote:

Jollydevil wrote:Where are you getting your intel from? Every source i can find hasnt said word one about Eldrad even coming near Fulgrim, or any other primarch.

The Horus Heresy novel "Fulgrim."

Eldrad tried to warn Fulgrim of the Warmaster's betrayal, only to realise that Fulgrim was tainted by Chaos. Fulgrim proceeded to cut a Wave Serpent in half and crush Eldrad's Wraithlord bodyguard. Eldrad ran away, opting to sicc an Avatar of Khaine on Fulgrim. Fulgrim proceeded to kill it.

Also, Lexicanum supports this as well.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Fulgrim

"Fulgrim furiously attacked Eldrad alongside his captains and the Phoenix Guard, destroying both Khiraen Goldhelm, an ancient and revered Wraithlord as well as an Avatar of Khaine in the process, forcing Eldrad and his beleagured forces to withdraw. This victory to Fulgrim's subsequent destruction of various Eldar maiden worlds using virus bombs as a means to end the supposed treachery of the Eldar."

Alright thanks. In the process of reading the book now, and Eldrads Lexicanum page doesnt say word one about him actually engaging fulgrim in battle, or anything close; just saying "but fulgrim was already tainted by chaos". Lexicanum, youve failed me. *chokes with mind*

The only reason Eldrad didn't fry Fulgrims brain with psychic power like the big E did with Horus was because Eldrad knows that kind of power unleashed by any eldar will immediately draw the attention of Slaanesh and in this case it would rip Eldrads soul from his body. That's why the Eldar put constraints on their minds, called the path of the seer in this case.

It isn't because Eldrad didn't have the power to do it, it's because he had the common sense not to.

Roadkill Zombie wrote:The only reason Eldrad didn't fry Fulgrims brain with psychic power like the big E did with Horus was because Eldrad knows that kind of power unleashed by any eldar will immediately draw the attention of Slaanesh and in this case it would rip Eldrads soul from his body. That's why the Eldar put constraints on their minds, called the path of the seer in this case.

It isn't because Eldrad didn't have the power to do it, it's because he had the common sense not to.

In other words you don't actually have any proof and are making an assumption based on frankly nothing. And even if Eldrad is as strong as you say, by your own words he is unable to use this power.

All Primarchs have built-in psychic defenses, even Fulgrim was immune to total possession until he allowed the Daemon to do so.

Eldrad doesn't even begin to rival Magnus the Red as a psyker, let alone the Emperor himself.

You are also referring to books that are made to make space marines look like gods. Fluff states that Eldar are by far the most powerful Psykers in the universe, and since Eldrad is one of the most powerful Eldar Psykers...

And yet, these books are officially canon, depicting what really happened. So whether Eldrad was unable to fry Fulgrim, or chose not to, it doesn't change the fact that Fulgrim served Eldrad's army its own arse, with compliments from the chef.

BlueDagger wrote:You are also referring to books that are made to make space marines look like gods.

The Primarchs are gods in all but name. The Space Marines are not quite gods, but them being powerful in combat is no invention of the HH series.

Beyond that, point? The Horus Heresy series is, if such a thing can be said, the most canon stuff BL puts out, being made to expand upon the setting and having much more supervision.

Fluff states that Eldar are by far the most powerful Psykers in the universe, and since Eldrad is one of the most powerful Eldar Psykers...

Eldar on average are more powerful than human psykers. That is true.

But it's a fallacy to assume that's always the case.

The Emperor and Magnus the Red's feats of raw psychic might would make any Eldar psyker blush in inadequacy.

Void__Dragon wrote:

Roadkill Zombie wrote:The only reason Eldrad didn't fry Fulgrims brain with psychic power like the big E did with Horus was because Eldrad knows that kind of power unleashed by any eldar will immediately draw the attention of Slaanesh and in this case it would rip Eldrads soul from his body. That's why the Eldar put constraints on their minds, called the path of the seer in this case.

It isn't because Eldrad didn't have the power to do it, it's because he had the common sense not to.

In other words you don't actually have any proof and are making an assumption based on frankly nothing. And even if Eldrad is as strong as you say, by your own words he is unable to use this power.

All Primarchs have built-in psychic defenses, even Fulgrim was immune to total possession until he allowed the Daemon to do so.

Eldrad doesn't even begin to rival Magnus the Red as a psyker, let alone the Emperor himself.

No, I'm actually talking about Eldrad having a power we all know about and I use quite often in game. It's called Mind War. It's the Eldar farseer power that allows Eldrad to fry the brain of any living being including Daemon Primarchs.

If he were to use that on Fulgrim at it's full power, without the constraints of the Eldar Seer path, then Fulgrim would have been slain but that would have led Eldrad down the path of damnation and possibly possession by Slaanesh daemons. This is talked about in the Eldar codex quite a bit. It talks about how they dare not use their full power because of the risk involved.

The one you see him use in game is the one using the constraints of the Seer path. And that one can still kill any commander in the game if they are not completely immune to psychic powers. That's more than an assumption based on frankly nothing, it's a fact based on known powers of Eldrad.

Roadkill Zombie wrote:No, I'm actually talking about Eldrad having a power we all know about and I use quite often in game. It's called Mind War. It's the Eldar farseer power that allows Eldrad to fry the brain of any living being including Daemon Primarchs.

If he were to use that on Fulgrim at it's full power, without the constraints of the Eldar Seer path, then Fulgrim would have been slain but that would have led Eldrad down the path of damnation and possibly possession by Slaanesh daemons. This is talked about in the Eldar codex quite a bit. It talks about how they dare not use their full power because of the risk involved.

The one you see him use in game is the one using the constraints of the Seer path. And that one can still kill any commander in the game if they are not completely immune to psychic powers. That's more than an assumption based on frankly nothing, it's a fact based on known powers of Eldrad.

So it's an assumption based on gameplay mechanics.

I'm sorry, but Fulgrim's mental defenses were to the point where he had to allow a powerful Greater Daemon who could corrupt a planet from a sword possess him. Gameplay mechanics are not feats. I mean hey, what if Fulgrim were to roll higher than Eldrad on the Leadership test?

Not buying it. Numerous psykers have the ability to completely obliterate minds, it's not that uncommon a power. You are assuming Eldrad can do something he never has based on gameplay mechanics, and even in-game Mind War only causes "wounds," what if Fulgrim has over five wounds, then clearly he could survive it.

The Emperor and Magnus the Red have psychic might that would make Eldrad feel completely inadequate in comparison. And even Magnus couldn't just blast the minds of Primarchs. Would of come in handy against Leman Russ.

"'I will not listen to you!' roared Fulgrim, drawing his sword. Eldrad
staggered as though a sudden force assailed him. The farseer's dark eyes
flashed to the blade and his features twisted in an expression of horror
and anguish.
'No!' cried Eldrad, as a great wind that seemed to rise from nowhere
howled around the stunned observers. Fulgrim's blade swept out towards
Eldrad's neck, cleaving the air in a sweeping, silver arc.
A fraction of a second before the sword took the farseer's head an
enormous blade flashed and intercepted its deadly edge. An explosion of
sparks burst before Eldrad and he staggered away from Fulgrim as the
wraithlord stood erect, its huge sword drawing back to strike at the
primarch."

This is not the reaction of a man who could of just obliterated Fulgrim's mind on a whim.

It sounds like the reaction one might have when they find out the one they trust the most in a rival empire has just betrayed the universe.