Beings that match The Emperor

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**iproxtaco**

Semantics. There's a difference of significant magnitude to ensure the Emperor is apparently quite a bit more powerful than Horus. Whatever word you or I want to use is irrelevant, there was no difference. They were equal in terms of power in the material world.

**Soladrin**

Then I'll just agree to disagree cause it seems we're both not going shift our position on this anyway.

**Durza**

nectarprime wrote:
JamesMclaren123 wrote:
Durza wrote:
JamesMclaren123 wrote:
Brother Coa wrote:
Durza wrote:And the Chaos Gods, Horus, and beings with the ability to breath unaided.
Fixed.

Uh...Emperor killed Horus while this was on his full power in like 2 seconds. And Chaos Gods can't invade material realm because Emperor is holding them back with his psychic might.
How is that equal?

Exactly

He was only able to kill Horus because Sanguinius had put a chink in his armour which allowed the Emperor to use his powers in the first place. If Horus' armour had been intact, the Emperor would've been helpless. And in case you don't remember, the Emperor's been on life support since that fight.

And Chaos Gods can't invade the material realm period. The live in the Warp and have no interest in even trying to materialise in real space. It's like saying the C'tan don't invade the Warp because the Tau Etherals are stopping them.

if you care to remember the emporer was not going all out on horus beliveing his sone could still be saved, as soon as the custode was killed the big E finnished horus in seconds.

What book exactly is this from? (sorry, looking to start getting more into the fluff...)

It's from most Chaos Codices, though the details vary with the edition. And a single, all-out attack that destroyed Horus when he believed his father to be vanquished doesn't necessarily mean the Emperor completely outclassed them. People are capable of breaking their own limits when they need to.

**flota**

he try to save his son and he paid the price for that "love"

**Void__Dragon**

I think it's pretty obvious that the Emperor was stronger.

Horus gak his pants when his father started to bring his full power to bare on him. Do note this was while the Emperor was by all accounts fethed up, and Horus wasn't injured at all.

**Blood_Raven**

It's really simple.

Horus had the backing of all 4 Chaos Gods and was still only able to hurt the Emperor because he let him, his heart wasn't in it and he didn't want to kill his favoured Son. When he knew he had to he killed him in one hit and completely decimated his soul.

**Durza**

Or maybe he let his guard down when his father was effectively dead in front of him, only to be surprised by a final attack. The Emperor was definitely stronger, but not so much so that Horus didn't have a chance. If he was, Horus wouldn't have injured him while the Emperor was defending.

**AlmightyWalrus**

Durza wrote:Or maybe he let his guard down when his father was effectively dead in front of him, only to be surprised by a final attack. The Emperor was definitely stronger, but not so much so that Horus didn't have a chance. If he was, Horus wouldn't have injured him while the Emperor was defending.

Except the Emperor was convinced that Horus was going to come to his senses and repent. He wouldn't fight back because that'd risk aggravating Horus and destroying everything.

**Pilau Rice**

Might help

It's the original Bill King story that appeared in White Dwarf as well as Realms of Chaos.

http://members.tripod.com/orcrist_game/40k/id3.html

**SomeRandomEvilGuy**

Durza wrote:The Emperor was definitely stronger, but not so much so that Horus didn't have a chance.

Horus didn't have a chance against the Emperor when the Emperor used His full power. Horus could injure the Emperors body, but if I recall correctly he never did anything to the Emperors soul. We're talking about a specific type of power here; it's not as simple as "if one was significantly stronger he should be to stop the other person without injuring him". A man with a knife can usually kill someone who's unarmed, but if he tries not to actually kill that person then the unarmed person can easily overpower him.

**iproxtaco**

I admit that Horus was perhaps not as strong as the Emperor when the latter used the absolute extent of his power, but I still contest that the difference was huge, according to some people.

**Blood_Raven**

But it was huge, when the Emperor decided enough was enough and he was beyong saving he killed Horus outright even with horrific injuries. These injuries were ALLOWED to happen to himself, he wasn't fighting back, he was trying to save his son.

**iproxtaco**

Blood_Raven wrote:But it was huge, when the Emperor decided enough was enough and he was beyong saving he killed Horus outright even with horrific injuries. These injuries were ALLOWED to happen to himself, he wasn't fighting back, he was trying to save his son.

No, the difference wasn't huge. Again, the Emperor was mortally wounded. If he's so much more powerful than Horus, he wouldn't have allowed his arm to be ripped off, his back to be broken, and his head fried to the point where is eye came out.

**SomeRandomEvilGuy**

iproxtaco wrote:
No, the difference wasn't huge. Again, the Emperor was mortally wounded. If he's so much more powerful than Horus, he wouldn't have allowed his arm to be ripped off, his back to be broken, and his head fried to the point where is eye came out.

It's not the same type of power though. The Emperor was capable of annihilating Horus' soul. It explicitly states in the Bill King story that "He has been restraining himself, trying not to hurt one who had been as a son to him." It was a significant use of His powers, but once the Emperor decided to kill Horus, He did. Completely.

**iproxtaco**

Yeah, I agree, but the difference wasn't huge.

**JamesMclaren123**

Durza wrote:
nectarprime wrote:
JamesMclaren123 wrote:
Durza wrote:
JamesMclaren123 wrote:
Brother Coa wrote:
Durza wrote:And the Chaos Gods, Horus, and beings with the ability to breath unaided.
Fixed.

Uh...Emperor killed Horus while this was on his full power in like 2 seconds. And Chaos Gods can't invade material realm because Emperor is holding them back with his psychic might.
How is that equal?

Exactly

He was only able to kill Horus because Sanguinius had put a chink in his armour which allowed the Emperor to use his powers in the first place. If Horus' armour had been intact, the Emperor would've been helpless. And in case you don't remember, the Emperor's been on life support since that fight.

And Chaos Gods can't invade the material realm period. The live in the Warp and have no interest in even trying to materialise in real space. It's like saying the C'tan don't invade the Warp because the Tau Etherals are stopping them.

if you care to remember the emporer was not going all out on horus beliveing his sone could still be saved, as soon as the custode was killed the big E finnished horus in seconds.

What book exactly is this from? (sorry, looking to start getting more into the fluff...)

It's from most Chaos Codices, though the details vary with the edition. And a single, all-out attack that destroyed Horus when he believed his father to be vanquished doesn't necessarily mean the Emperor completely outclassed them. People are capable of breaking their own limits when they need to.

I read it on lexicanum so..

@iproxtaco you can be much more powerful and still get you ass kicked if you not trying, being powerful dose not mean you can stop every attack against you

**Void__Dragon**

If the Emperor was so absurdly superior to Horus, nonlethally subduing him or defending against him (Seriously, psykers can create shields dude) would have been a small feat.

The Emperor was more powerful psychically (I don't think so physically though). But he wasn't above Horus to some absurd degree.

**Blood_Raven**

He let himself get injured, if he fought back he would easily kill him which he does end up doing.

**Void__Dragon**

Blood_Raven wrote:He let himself get injured

No, he did not let himself have his chest torn open, his jugular ripped out, his faced scalded until his eyeball popped, his arm ripped off, his wrist broken, or his spine split in two.

It is constantly emphasized it would require nothing less than the Emperor's full power to defeat Horus. If he was so much stronger than Horus, his full power would not be necessary.

**Blood_Raven**

Let me put it in real world terms.

A dad who is a professional cage fighter and his son who he teaches get into a fight over something.

The dad doesn't want to use his full skill against his son because it could kill him. The son on the other hand really has no qualms with going all out and manages to break a few of his dads bones.

The dad finally so annoyed uses his full skill on the son and the son is ko'd in one punch.

**Brother Coa**

Void__Dragon wrote:
Blood_Raven wrote:He let himself get injured

No, he did not let himself have his chest torn open, his jugular ripped out, his faced scalded until his eyeball popped, his arm ripped off, his wrist broken, or his spine split in two.

It is constantly emphasized it would require nothing less than the Emperor's full power to defeat Horus. If he was so much stronger than Horus, his full power would not be necessary.

A simple question would be: would you kill your own son in that situation? Or would you try to bring him back no matter the cost?

**Void__Dragon**

Brother Coa wrote:A simple question would be: would you kill your own son in that situation? Or would you try to bring him back no matter the cost?

If the Emperor was so much more powerful than his son he wouldn't of HAD to of killed him to subdue him.

Do you have to kill your five year old son to subdue him?

**JamesMclaren123**

Brother Coa wrote:
Void__Dragon wrote:
Blood_Raven wrote:He let himself get injured

No, he did not let himself have his chest torn open, his jugular ripped out, his faced scalded until his eyeball popped, his arm ripped off, his wrist broken, or his spine split in two.

It is constantly emphasized it would require nothing less than the Emperor's full power to defeat Horus. If he was so much stronger than Horus, his full power would not be necessary.

A simple question would be: would you kill your own son in that situation? Or would you try to bring him back no matter the cost?

exactly my point, no one is saying that the big e is so superior that it is unreal, well im not im not, its like usain bolt and tyson gaye if they are both on form you know who is going to win

**Brother Coa**

Void__Dragon wrote:
Brother Coa wrote:A simple question would be: would you kill your own son in that situation? Or would you try to bring him back no matter the cost?

If the Emperor was so much more powerful than his son he wouldn't of HAD to of killed him to subdue him.

Do you have to kill your five year old son to subdue him?

If he is possessed by 4 Lucifer's then YES.

**iproxtaco**

Brother Coa wrote:
Void__Dragon wrote:
Brother Coa wrote:A simple question would be: would you kill your own son in that situation? Or would you try to bring him back no matter the cost?

If the Emperor was so much more powerful than his son he wouldn't of HAD to of killed him to subdue him.

Do you have to kill your five year old son to subdue him?

If he is possessed by 4 Lucifer's then YES.

That's not his point.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Blood_Raven wrote:Let me put it in real world terms.

A dad who is a professional cage fighter and his son who he teaches get into a fight over something.

The dad doesn't want to use his full skill against his son because it could kill him. The son on the other hand really has no qualms with going all out and manages to break a few of his dads bones.

The dad finally so annoyed uses his full skill on the son and the son is ko'd in one punch.

But in you're analogy, the father is still more skilled, so should be able to defend himself if he's so much better.

**Durza**

JamesMclaren123 wrote:
Brother Coa wrote:
Void__Dragon wrote:
Blood_Raven wrote:He let himself get injured

No, he did not let himself have his chest torn open, his jugular ripped out, his faced scalded until his eyeball popped, his arm ripped off, his wrist broken, or his spine split in two.

It is constantly emphasized it would require nothing less than the Emperor's full power to defeat Horus. If he was so much stronger than Horus, his full power would not be necessary.

A simple question would be: would you kill your own son in that situation? Or would you try to bring him back no matter the cost?

exactly my point, no one is saying that the big e is so superior that it is unreal, well im not im not, its like usain bolt and tyson gaye if they are both on form you know who is going to win

Most people are, though. While also arguing that even though the Emperor was infinitely more powerful than Horus, he wasn't infinitely more powerful enough to block his attacks, physical nor psychic.

And could I just point out that according to the original fluff, the Emperor was the one who attacked physically first, and was fighting to kill. He had a subconscious block about using his full psychic might against his son, but it doesn't change the fact that the attack that killed Horus was a surprise strike, which was the only reason Horus didn't block it.

**JamesMclaren123**

Durza wrote:
JamesMclaren123 wrote:
Brother Coa wrote:
Void__Dragon wrote:
Blood_Raven wrote:He let himself get injured

No, he did not let himself have his chest torn open, his jugular ripped out, his faced scalded until his eyeball popped, his arm ripped off, his wrist broken, or his spine split in two.

It is constantly emphasized it would require nothing less than the Emperor's full power to defeat Horus. If he was so much stronger than Horus, his full power would not be necessary.

A simple question would be: would you kill your own son in that situation? Or would you try to bring him back no matter the cost?

exactly my point, no one is saying that the big e is so superior that it is unreal, well im not im not, its like usain bolt and tyson gaye if they are both on form you know who is going to win

Most people are, though. While also arguing that even though the Emperor was infinitely more powerful than Horus, he wasn't infinitely more powerful enough to block his attacks, physical nor psychic.

And could I just point out that according to the original fluff, the Emperor was the one who attacked physically first, and was fighting to kill. He had a subconscious block about using his full psychic might against his son, but it doesn't change the fact that the attack that killed Horus was a surprise strike, which was the only reason Horus didn't block it.

i,ve not read anywhere that the attack was a surpise attack where is your source

**Void__Dragon**

Horus seemed pretty surprised when the Emperor was about to fire his full strength at him.

He was gaking himself.

**Durza**

Here. In the right hand column. He attacked when Horus was distracted disassembling a Marine.

Pilau Rice wrote:Might help

It's the original Bill King story that appeared in White Dwarf as well as Realms of Chaos.

http://members.tripod.com/orcrist_game/40k/id3.html

He gathers every particle of his power, focuses it into a mighty bolt of pure force, more coherent than a laser, more destructive than an exploding sun. He aims it as Horus, a lance of power destined for the madman's heart. Horus senses the upsurge of energy and turns to face the Emperor, a look of horror on his face.

The Emperor lets fly. It strikes the Warmaster. Horus screams as destruction rains down on him, twisting and writhing in titanic agony. He strives frantically to counter the Emperor's deathblow but his struggles become more feeble as the lethal energies play over him.

**JamesMclaren123**

Durza wrote:Here. In the right hand column. He attacked when Horus was distracted disassembling a Marine.

Pilau Rice wrote:Might help

It's the original Bill King story that appeared in White Dwarf as well as Realms of Chaos.

http://members.tripod.com/orcrist_game/40k/id3.html

He gathers every particle of his power, focuses it into a mighty bolt of pure force, more coherent than a laser, more destructive than an exploding sun. He aims it as Horus, a lance of power destined for the madman's heart. Horus senses the upsurge of energy and turns to face the Emperor, a look of horror on his face.

The Emperor lets fly. It strikes the Warmaster. Horus screams as destruction rains down on him, twisting and writhing in titanic agony. He strives frantically to counter the Emperor's deathblow but his struggles become more feeble as the lethal energies play over him.

this simply reenforces my point that the emperor is more powerful than horus even fuelled by the 4 gods of chaos, though horus is distraced when the attack is building he had more than enough time to defend himself instead his overconfidence meant that he delayed in the defence too long