Beings that match The Emperor

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**Durza**

Roadkill Zombie wrote:
Void__Dragon wrote:
Roadkill Zombie wrote:The only reason Eldrad didn't fry Fulgrims brain with psychic power like the big E did with Horus was because Eldrad knows that kind of power unleashed by any eldar will immediately draw the attention of Slaanesh and in this case it would rip Eldrads soul from his body. That's why the Eldar put constraints on their minds, called the path of the seer in this case.

It isn't because Eldrad didn't have the power to do it, it's because he had the common sense not to.

In other words you don't actually have any proof and are making an assumption based on frankly nothing. And even if Eldrad is as strong as you say, by your own words he is unable to use this power.

All Primarchs have built-in psychic defenses, even Fulgrim was immune to total possession until he allowed the Daemon to do so.

Eldrad doesn't even begin to rival Magnus the Red as a psyker, let alone the Emperor himself.

No, I'm actually talking about Eldrad having a power we all know about and I use quite often in game. It's called Mind War. It's the Eldar farseer power that allows Eldrad to fry the brain of any living being including Daemon Primarchs.

If he were to use that on Fulgrim at it's full power, without the constraints of the Eldar Seer path, then Fulgrim would have been slain but that would have led Eldrad down the path of damnation and possibly possession by Slaanesh daemons. This is talked about in the Eldar codex quite a bit. It talks about how they dare not use their full power because of the risk involved.

The one you see him use in game is the one using the constraints of the Seer path. And that one can still kill any commander in the game if they are not completely immune to psychic powers. That's more than an assumption based on frankly nothing, it's a fact based on known powers of Eldrad.

Except he's never had the opportunity to try use it against a Daemon Primarch, since Angron's the only one that's been used, and I think he might be immune to psychic powers... And you are basing it on nothing, because Fulgrim was resistant to psychic powers.

It's a moot point either way, because Eldrad, as you said, can't use enough power to kill Fulgrim without dying himself.

@Jollydevil, surely the Eldar should have had a plan for such an outcome, especially if Eldrad was able to kill Fulgrim.

**Jollydevil**

Should have.
However under the circumstances they probably werent planning this endevor under the course of weeks, or even days. And thus it was probably pretty unexpected that one of the only people eldrad trusted within the imperium had already fallen to chaos, which had never been considered into the equation given how little time the eldar needed to act in.

**Void__Dragon**

Jollydevil wrote:It sounds like the reaction one might have when they find out the one they trust the most in a rival empire has just betrayed the universe.

Eldar trusting the Imperium?

usrs?

The only reason this meeting happened, rather than the Eldar trying to blow up the Imperial ships, is because Fulgrim, when landing on Maiden Worlds, was so moved by their beauty that he didn't dare soil them via annexing them.

**Jollydevil**

Void__Dragon wrote:
Jollydevil wrote:It sounds like the reaction one might have when they find out the one they trust the most in a rival empire has just betrayed the universe.

Eldar trusting the Imperium?

usrs?

The only reason this meeting happened, rather than the Eldar trying to blow up the Imperial ships, is because Fulgrim, when landing on Maiden Worlds, was so moved by their beauty that he didn't dare soil them via annexing them.

And wouldnt you be surprised had said person turned to chaos?

**JamesMclaren123**

Even if Eldrad had power above what he uses, what is the use in haveing such power if he can't use it because he gets utterly raped by slannesh

**Brother Coa**

JamesMclaren123 wrote:He can't use it because he gets utterly raped by slannesh

He is now...

But to sum it up...only "things" that can match the Emperor's strength are: Tyranid Hive Mind ( because we don't know what that is ) and C'Tan who are basically mini-gods.

**Jollydevil**

JamesMclaren123 wrote:Even if Eldrad had power above what he uses, what is the use in haveing such power if he can't use it because he gets utterly raped by slannesh

I think it was more of that because it was the times of the heresy next to Fulgrim whose already being watched by slaanesh, it would be especially risky to use full power because the chaos gods are more observant.
Just my 2cents.

**The Son Of Russ**

Gharkul Blackfang(atleast i think thats his name) is the Biggest ork in recorded history. He was the one who began to strangle the emperor before Horus stepped in. He beats the emperor in physical might, and also outsmarted him on various occasions i think mostly because the emperor believed him to be stupid "cus he just an ork!"

**King Pariah**

I guess now that rumor necron fluff seems to say the the Void Dragon was a mere shard of the whole, the Emperor actually wouldn't have matched up with, at all, with a complete and whole Void Dragon.

**FlammingGaunt**

King Pariah wrote:I guess now that rumor necron fluff seems to say the the Void Dragon was a mere shard of the whole, the Emperor actually wouldn't have matched up with, at all, with a complete and whole Void Dragon.

I wouldn't take rumors as fact especially when they're stating one faction is better than another.

**Durza**

Brother Coa wrote:
JamesMclaren123 wrote:He can't use it because he gets utterly raped by slannesh

He is now...

But to sum it up...only "things" that can match the Emperor's strength are: Tyranid Hive Mind ( because we don't know what that is ) and C'Tan who are basically mini-gods. And the Chaos Gods, Horus, and beings with the ability to breath unaided.

Fixed.

**Brother Coa**

Durza wrote:And the Chaos Gods, Horus, and beings with the ability to breath unaided.

Fixed.

**JamesMclaren123**

Brother Coa wrote:
Durza wrote:And the Chaos Gods, Horus, and beings with the ability to breath unaided.

Fixed.

Uh...Emperor killed Horus while this was on his full power in like 2 seconds. And Chaos Gods can't invade material realm because Emperor is holding them back with his psychic might.
How is that equal?

**Durza**

JamesMclaren123 wrote:
Brother Coa wrote:
Durza wrote:And the Chaos Gods, Horus, and beings with the ability to breath unaided.
Fixed.

Uh...Emperor killed Horus while this was on his full power in like 2 seconds. And Chaos Gods can't invade material realm because Emperor is holding them back with his psychic might.
How is that equal?

Exactly

He was only able to kill Horus because Sanguinius had put a chink in his armour which allowed the Emperor to use his powers in the first place. If Horus' armour had been intact, the Emperor would've been helpless. And in case you don't remember, the Emperor's been on life support since that fight.

And Chaos Gods can't invade the material realm period. The live in the Warp and have no interest in even trying to materialise in real space. It's like saying the C'tan don't invade the Warp because the Tau Etherals are stopping them.

**Jollydevil**

I hope your not seriously using that as your arguement. That was just something made up by crazed sanguinus fans who think sanguinus could best an entire population of hive tyrants without breaking a sweat.

**Durza**

And yet, it's put down in fluff, and there's nothing countering it.

**JamesMclaren123**

Durza wrote:
JamesMclaren123 wrote:
Brother Coa wrote:
Durza wrote:And the Chaos Gods, Horus, and beings with the ability to breath unaided.
Fixed.

Uh...Emperor killed Horus while this was on his full power in like 2 seconds. And Chaos Gods can't invade material realm because Emperor is holding them back with his psychic might.
How is that equal?

Exactly

He was only able to kill Horus because Sanguinius had put a chink in his armour which allowed the Emperor to use his powers in the first place. If Horus' armour had been intact, the Emperor would've been helpless. And in case you don't remember, the Emperor's been on life support since that fight.

And Chaos Gods can't invade the material realm period. The live in the Warp and have no interest in even trying to materialise in real space. It's like saying the C'tan don't invade the Warp because the Tau Etherals are stopping them.

if you care to remember the emporer was not going all out on horus beliveing his sone could still be saved, as soon as the custode was killed the big E finnished horus in seconds.

**iproxtaco**

And still had his back broken and his arm pulled off. There wan't such a huge divide between Horus and the Emperor as some people seem to think. The Dark Gods aren't going to empower Horus so he's less powerful than the Emperor. They were more or less equal in my book.

**Soladrin**

If a near death Emperor can mind bullet horus to death in one go, I think a not so dead Emperor who put some effort into it would be outclassing horus by quite a bit.

**iproxtaco**

Soladrin wrote:If a near death Emperor can mind bullet horus to death in one go, I think a not so dead Emperor who put some effort into it would be outclassing horus by quite a bit.

Yet he allowed himself to be nearly killed. If he's that powerful he wouldn't of allowed that to happen.

**Soladrin**

He did allow it, because he's a sentimental old sod who thought he could still save horus.

**iproxtaco**

Soladrin wrote:He did allow it, because he's a sentimental old sod who thought he could still save horus.

There's still a huge hole in your reasoning you're not able to fill. If the Emperor was so vastly more powerful than Horus, he wouldn't of allowed himself to be nearly killed. They were equal, hence why Horus was winning when the Emperor held back, but lost when the Emperor used all of his power to kill Horus.

**nectarprime**

JamesMclaren123 wrote:
Durza wrote:
JamesMclaren123 wrote:
Brother Coa wrote:
Durza wrote:And the Chaos Gods, Horus, and beings with the ability to breath unaided.
Fixed.

Uh...Emperor killed Horus while this was on his full power in like 2 seconds. And Chaos Gods can't invade material realm because Emperor is holding them back with his psychic might.
How is that equal?

Exactly

He was only able to kill Horus because Sanguinius had put a chink in his armour which allowed the Emperor to use his powers in the first place. If Horus' armour had been intact, the Emperor would've been helpless. And in case you don't remember, the Emperor's been on life support since that fight.

And Chaos Gods can't invade the material realm period. The live in the Warp and have no interest in even trying to materialise in real space. It's like saying the C'tan don't invade the Warp because the Tau Etherals are stopping them.

if you care to remember the emporer was not going all out on horus beliveing his sone could still be saved, as soon as the custode was killed the big E finnished horus in seconds.

What book exactly is this from? (sorry, looking to start getting more into the fluff...)

**Soladrin**

iproxtaco wrote:
Soladrin wrote:He did allow it, because he's a sentimental old sod who thought he could still save horus.

There's still a huge hole in your reasoning you're not able to fill. If the Emperor was so vastly more powerful than Horus, he wouldn't of allowed himself to be nearly killed. They were equal, hence why Horus was winning when the Emperor held back, but lost when the Emperor used all of his power to kill Horus.

Not really, his mind was vastly more powerfull (hence, mind bullets) his physical form? Not so much.

**iproxtaco**

Soladrin wrote:
iproxtaco wrote:
Soladrin wrote:He did allow it, because he's a sentimental old sod who thought he could still save horus.

There's still a huge hole in your reasoning you're not able to fill. If the Emperor was so vastly more powerful than Horus, he wouldn't of allowed himself to be nearly killed. They were equal, hence why Horus was winning when the Emperor held back, but lost when the Emperor used all of his power to kill Horus.

Not really, his mind was vastly more powerfull (hence, mind bullets) his physical form? Not so much.

What's the difference? Both were weapons, and Horus still mortally wounded him despite it.

**Soladrin**

One got hurt, the other didn't? Not that hard to see the difference.

And we haven't actually been told how many blows horus might have landed. (AFAIK)

Could well have been him doing his super move when the Emperors defenses were down while trying to convince him.

And the fact that the Emperor won with his crappified body, against an almost unhurt horus shows quite clearly they were never anywhere near equal.

**iproxtaco**

That's not really a difference. The were both about to die.

He broke the Emperor's back, tore of his arm, and fired him with Warp powers to the point where his eye fell out.

Speculation. If there was such a massive difference between the two, the Emperor would have just batted away Horus's attacks until the moment came.

If we're going to speculate, then the Emperor only won because Horus had a chink in his armour, courtesy of Sanguinus.

**Soladrin**

Ok, the point is, I'm saying they were never equal, your saying that I'm saying (see what I did there?) that theres a massive difference. It's not massive, but there always was a difference. Be it with or without chaos shenanigens.

**iproxtaco**

"Never anywhere near equal". Yeah, you're saying there's a big difference.

**Soladrin**

Big and massive are quite different.