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pizzaguardian wrote: you can only join a unit at the end of the movement phase yes , but it doesn't prevent it from leaving the unit whenever he wants.

But he can't do both. It's leave or join, not leave and join

where does it say that specifically ? Since i read through that section of BRB and can't find this restriction

My understanding of the slingshot tactic was that you leave one unit, and join the unit you want to increase the assault distance of at the front, after it has moved. In this way, as you are leaving/joining two separate units, you do not violate the rules (I think...)

Magpiesouth wrote:
I don't disagree that a player CAN still win with better strategy, tactics, and forethought, I'm only saying that he shouldn't HAVE to. Sounds petty, but it's also very true.

These are the EXACT reasons why a player should win. Always. If you're losing in spite of these, then something has gone wrong.

My point is this: if at any point, my opponent is running close to 750 more points (or more) of upgrades than I am, without actually having to PAY for them, there's a balancing factor issue there. I wouldn't play a game at 2000pts vs. 2750pts without getting a little snarky.

"No fair, your Fire Dragons should be at least 25 points each, because a IG Vet with Melta gun and carapace is 20 a piece. Plus you get better leadership and improved weapon skill. AND A MELTA BOMB! This game sucks cuz MAT WARD"

Joey wrote:The kind of people who play warhammer are not known for their social skills. Whether or not Grey Knights are cheese is irrelavent, they should have the good grace to be polite.

This to the Nth power.

At least your buddy was acting like a normal person, just let those others go pound sand.

daedalus wrote:

Magpiesouth wrote:
I don't disagree that a player CAN still win with better strategy, tactics, and forethought, I'm only saying that he shouldn't HAVE to. Sounds petty, but it's also very true.

These are the EXACT reasons why a player should win. Always. If you're losing in spite of these, then something has gone wrong.

My point is this: if at any point, my opponent is running close to 750 more points (or more) of upgrades than I am, without actually having to PAY for them, there's a balancing factor issue there. I wouldn't play a game at 2000pts vs. 2750pts without getting a little snarky.

"No fair, your Fire Dragons should be at least 25 points each, because a IG Vet with Melta gun and carapace is 20 a piece. Plus you get better leadership and improved weapon skill. AND A MELTA BOMB! This game sucks cuz MAT WARD"

1. "... then something has gone wrong" - That's what magpiesouth is saying, sounds like you're agreeing with him.
2. "... cuz MAT WARD" Why is it so hard for people to accept that grey knights are undercosted? Their suite of abilities, using any other codex as a basis of comparison, should cost more.
There's validity to the point that compared especially to other space marine chapters, the Grey Knights are, point for point, far more cost effective.
It doesn't mean that the game is broken, or that grey knights win every time, but they enter the race with a head start.
Yes, you still need to build intelligent lists, and not play like an idiot, grey knights don't just auto-win, and while Magpiesouth may have been exaggerating for emphasis, you're just being a troll.

My 2000 point GK army has exactly 19 models in it. Please tell me how that is undercosted.

Junk, I don't think daedalus is trolling. These are the printed rules for this game, if you don't like them, use house rules or retire from 40k.

It's undercosted, because for anything other than the Imperium to field units with the abilities and upgrades of the Knights, it would cost at least one and a half times more.

junk wrote:
1. "... then something has gone wrong" - That's what magpiesouth is saying, sounds like you're agreeing with him.

Rereading it, I do not believe so. He is saying that you shouldn't have to have better strategy, tactics, and forethought to win, but it's possible to win if you do. I'm saying that the exact and only reason why a person SHOULD win a 'tactical wargame' is by virtue of having better strategy, tactics, and forethought.

2. "... cuz MAT WARD" Why is it so hard for people to accept that grey knights are undercosted? Their suite of abilities, using any other codex as a basis of comparison, should cost more.
There's validity to the point that compared especially to other space marine chapters, the Grey Knights are, point for point, far more cost effective.
It doesn't mean that the game is broken, or that grey knights win every time, but they enter the race with a head start.
Yes, you still need to build intelligent lists, and not play like an idiot, grey knights don't just auto-win, and while Magpiesouth may have been exaggerating for emphasis, you're just being a troll.

Absolutely... but on the other hand:

"Why is it so hard for people to accept that fire dragons are undercosted? Their suite of abilities, using any other codex as a basis of comparison, should cost more."

I was going to come up with a long mathhammered evaluation of opportunity cost in not getting plasma/melta like all the other marines do and discuss the 16% chance of having AP2 vs the guaranteed of the aforementioned guns, not to mention the losing out on standard heavy weapons such as missile launchers and lascannons. I was also going to point out the pitfalls of comparing units in a vacuum since the point of my initial Fire Dragon comparison was missed, but I'm off work in 4 minutes. Besides, apparently I'm just trolling, apparently.

daedalus wrote:

junk wrote:
1. "... then something has gone wrong" - That's what magpiesouth is saying, sounds like you're agreeing with him.

Rereading it, I do not believe so. He is saying that you shouldn't have to have better strategy, tactics, and forethought to win, but it's possible to win if you do. I'm saying that the exact and only reason why a person SHOULD win a 'tactical wargame' is by virtue of having better strategy, tactics, and forethought.

2. "... cuz MAT WARD" Why is it so hard for people to accept that grey knights are undercosted? Their suite of abilities, using any other codex as a basis of comparison, should cost more.
There's validity to the point that compared especially to other space marine chapters, the Grey Knights are, point for point, far more cost effective.
It doesn't mean that the game is broken, or that grey knights win every time, but they enter the race with a head start.
Yes, you still need to build intelligent lists, and not play like an idiot, grey knights don't just auto-win, and while Magpiesouth may have been exaggerating for emphasis, you're just being a troll.

Absolutely... but on the other hand:

"Why is it so hard for people to accept that fire dragons are undercosted? Their suite of abilities, using any other codex as a basis of comparison, should cost more."

I was going to come up with a long mathhammered evaluation of opportunity cost in not getting plasma/melta like all the other marines do and discuss the 16% chance of having AP2 vs the guaranteed of the aforementioned guns, not to mention the losing out on standard heavy weapons such as missile launchers and lascannons. I was also going to point out the pitfalls of comparing units in a vacuum since the point of my initial Fire Dragon comparison was missed, but I'm off work in 4 minutes. Besides, apparently I'm just trolling, apparently.

Of course you are trolling since saying anything remotely close to "GK is not undercosted" as people say ,is obviously an attempt to troll the dakka community.

Except for the psyfleman dreadnoughts the GK effective range in shooting is below 24 " which is why a sm or guard gun line blasts me apart from the table edge and the only way i beat my tau friend is to distract him with a terminator squad until i get close.

Everybody seems to miss that point here. GK suck at long range shooting

junk wrote:
2. "... cuz MAT WARD" Why is it so hard for people to accept that grey knights are undercosted? Their suite of abilities, using any other codex as a basis of comparison, should cost more.

Why is it so hard for some people to accept that Codex unit cost are balance for there Codex chooses not by what the other Armys Codex price there stuff. Long Fang are better then SW Trems, guess what Trems are cheaper for them.

I cried cheese when i faced diversified Tau battlesuits. Then they died to earthshaker shells and i stood there stunned. I then cried cheese when my marine opponent (with a beautifuly painted army) wanted to introduce the Cestus Assault Ramp. I was intimidated. I still am. BUT he bought, assembled (no mean feat that) and painted a nice model so by all means i gave myself the opportunity to see how it died. You know what? It did (to carapaced Veterans with meltas shotguns and a PF). It isn't cheese if it dies to two meltas that's what i say. Now Eldar are frustrating... but in no way cheese

daedalus wrote:

junk wrote:
1. "... then something has gone wrong" - That's what magpiesouth is saying, sounds like you're agreeing with him.

Rereading it, I do not believe so. He is saying that you shouldn't have to have better strategy, tactics, and forethought to win, but it's possible to win if you do. I'm saying that the exact and only reason why a person SHOULD win a 'tactical wargame' is by virtue of having better strategy, tactics, and forethought.

2. "... cuz MAT WARD" Why is it so hard for people to accept that grey knights are undercosted? Their suite of abilities, using any other codex as a basis of comparison, should cost more.
There's validity to the point that compared especially to other space marine chapters, the Grey Knights are, point for point, far more cost effective.
It doesn't mean that the game is broken, or that grey knights win every time, but they enter the race with a head start.
Yes, you still need to build intelligent lists, and not play like an idiot, grey knights don't just auto-win, and while Magpiesouth may have been exaggerating for emphasis, you're just being a troll.

Absolutely... but on the other hand:

"Why is it so hard for people to accept that fire dragons are undercosted? Their suite of abilities, using any other codex as a basis of comparison, should cost more."

I was going to come up with a long mathhammered evaluation of opportunity cost in not getting plasma/melta like all the other marines do and discuss the 16% chance of having AP2 vs the guaranteed of the aforementioned guns, not to mention the losing out on standard heavy weapons such as missile launchers and lascannons. I was also going to point out the pitfalls of comparing units in a vacuum since the point of my initial Fire Dragon comparison was missed, but I'm off work in 4 minutes. Besides, apparently I'm just trolling, apparently.

Trolling, as in, comparing what magpiesouth said to "this game sucks cuz MAT WARD", was just mocking. Not saying that you don't raise fair points, but theres no need to imply that the person that you're arguing with is a crybaby.

Also, I love the grey knights codex; I'm a fan of GK, of the fluff, the feel of the army, the way that it plays. I run a 2,500 point Draigowing and a 5000 point list called "nobody expects the flying inquisition", and PGK at nearly every point cost; but I can't help the feeling when I'm playing that I have a distinct advantage, sometimes I pull out one of my other armies only because i want my opponents to have a chance, or specifically so I don't have to listen to people calling BS on my army. But more importantly, I'll be three turns into a game with a draigo wing and I'll be down maybe 1 or 2 models, while my opponent is down like 3 or 4 full units, and I have to think to myself, I'm not this good. Sure I get a good square fight against super tight space wolves netlists, shadow-spamming nids handled by excellent players; but on the average, when I put GK on the table, I feel like I can only lose if I get awful dice or make some colossal mistakes. It's not 'GK are so unfair because they beat me' it's 'this seems too easy'.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and to the GK suck at long range shooting thing, we have razorbacks, dreadnoughts in 2 different force org spots, access to landraiders, we can stick lascannons on stormravens with power of the machine spirit, inquisitorial henchmen with a variety of armaments, and deep striking multi-wound wound terminators that can drop 16 str 7 rending shots into anything, and if we so choose, mastercraft their guns, and that's not even the best thing about them.

I love Paladins, I even keep a paladin in my sig. I'd be furious if someone came along and changed the codex and took my paladins away, but the fact that this topic even exists is kind of a testament to how good the GK codex is, compared to other codexes or not.

junk wrote:
Trolling, as in, comparing what magpiesouth said to "this game sucks cuz MAT WARD", was just mocking. Not saying that you don't raise fair points, but theres no need to imply that the person that you're arguing with is a crybaby.

Perhaps I did come off a little too snide, but any time Ward is brought up, I have a hard time resisting looking at their argument with complete skepticism. Argument from Mat Ward comes up so often that I'm considering adding it to the Wikipedia list of common logical fallacies. There have been plenty of cheesy face dominating armies that weren't written by him.

Also, I love the grey knights codex; I'm a fan of GK, of the fluff, the feel of the army, the way that it plays. I run a 2,500 point Draigowing and a 5000 point list called "nobody expects the flying inquisition", and PGK at nearly every point cost; but I can't help the feeling when I'm playing that I have a distinct advantage, sometimes I pull out one of my other armies only because i want my opponents to have a chance, or specifically so I don't have to listen to people calling BS on my army. But more importantly, I'll be three turns into a game with a draigo wing and I'll be down maybe 1 or 2 models, while my opponent is down like 3 or 4 full units, and I have to think to myself, I'm not this good. Sure I get a good square fight against super tight space wolves netlists, shadow-spamming nids handled by excellent players; but on the average, when I put GK on the table, I feel like I can only lose if I get awful dice or make some colossal mistakes. It's not 'GK are so unfair because they beat me' it's 'this seems too easy'.

I feel the need to call into question the skill of your opponents then, or perhaps I'm actually a lot worse at the game than I give myself credit for. I haven't yet tried Draigowing. It could well be one of the power builds though. I've won more games than I've lost with GK, but I honestly don't think I've won more games that I feel I should have. And the ones I've lost I've lost HARD. Like, damn near got myself tabled hard. Maybe it's the list carrying me, and I'm too arrogant to tell the difference. I've even played a few games against GK as different armies, 'Nids included, and won those games too though. It's just from where I sit, I don't see cheese. I see an army that has the advantage of not everyone having had the time to get experienced enough with it to actually be prepared to deal with the weird builds (like all paladins) that the codex can offer.

Oh, and to the GK suck at long range shooting thing, we have razorbacks, dreadnoughts in 2 different force org spots, access to landraiders, we can stick lascannons on stormravens with power of the machine spirit, inquisitorial henchmen with a variety of armaments, and deep striking multi-wound wound terminators that can drop 16 str 7 rending shots into anything, and if we so choose, mastercraft their guns, and that's not even the best thing about them.

Other than the Razorback and the heavy slot Dread, you pay for it though. Razorback's the only one you can get as a dedicated transport, and so unless you're spamming MSU to maximize razorbacks (which has it's own problems) or saving all of your FOC slots for dreadnoughts, you can only have maybe two of those other options in a 1500-2000 point list due to cost. Henchmen are an option, but they're an expensive and bad BS option. 35 points for a Jokearo isn't really such a great deal, especially when you need an Inquisitor to unlock it. And you have to have a special character to get more than one squad of them, so even if you have a monkeyspam squad, you're still only shooting at one thing a round. Also, food for thought, but I believe 35 points is the rough point cost of a single IG HW Squad model with lascannon.
Finally, concerning the paladins' psycannons, you're looking at a (roughly) 730 point unit by that point. Isn't a Warhound Titan only 750?

I love Paladins, I even keep a paladin in my sig. I'd be furious if someone came along and changed the codex and took my paladins away, but the fact that this topic even exists is kind of a testament to how good the GK codex is, compared to other codexes or not.

This topic exists every time a new army comes out though. Well, at least, a new Space Marine army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, can someone break down the point cost of the aforementioned Fire Dragon without it being cheaper than the IG Vet with Melta?

Yep. Those claiming it costs 15 points to give someone a power weapon obviously arent aware of Banshees or Incubi. They dont pay 15 points for their weapons, so they must be undercosted!!!!?!?!?

Utter tosh to come up with 35 - 40 points for each strike squad. Complete and utter rubbish.

Daedalus - try coteaz + 5 x 3man squads with 1 x DCA unit, some meltas if you can afford it, in psy-HB razorbacks, 3 x riflemen and 3 x 5 man purifiers also in razorbacks. The amount of dakka this puts out is crazy

I wouldn't go so far as to say complete and utter rubbish concerning a 35-40pt cost per model on your strike squad. To be fair, I'm not including the standard reduction for non-optional upgrades there. But to call 'utter tosh' is a bit silly. It's just math. A standard MEQ is roughly 16 pts. A power weapon is 15. That makes 31 pts. They have two psychic powers. Give a point or two per model? Let's call it 32pts. Storm bolters, or it's statline equivalent, will run you 3-10pts from pretty much any codex. Let's call it 5pts. We're up to 37 point models so far. The entire squad's power weapons are force weapons that function better than standard force weapons in that only one psychic test is required to activate them all. Let's call that 1pt per model. That makes a 38pt model. Let's factor in an arbitrary point cost reduction, say 5pts. That makes a strike squad model 33pts, for which you only need pay 20, and I'm being generous. Now, I don't know anything about Banshees, Incubi, or fire dragons, but let's try and remember that on average, a non-MEQ is significantly cheaper. A power weapon on a 3-statline model WILL cost much less than a 15pt average. A unit with a strength 3 and 5+ save can afford to be given a power weapon for practically nothing. That being said, I'm not sure why listing those examples is such a hard point. Maybe they are under-priced. Seems perfectly reasonable to me that they are. So I suppose we all agree, then. There are a lot of under-priced models floating around. I now reiterate. Again. The problem is not single models. I am not trying to compare single examples of GK models to single examples from other codexes. My point, again, is that the entire codex is filled with incredibly cost-effective, under-priced models. That, to me at least, is broken. Any GK army list versus any other army list has a huge point advantage in upgrades. I've seen and heard of them losing plenty of times. In fact, even if they lost every single game they ever played, even with a one hundred percent loss record, that would not change the fact that they get a lot of really good crap for free, and therefore have an advantage to start. My point is not that they are unbeatable, nor that they have 'cheesy' powers or abilities, because frankly, they don't. Not anymore than any other codex, at least. Sanctuary and the like are awesome, very strong tactical abilities. But so is the C:SM ability to assault first turn with everything. Or to drop 30 meltaguns without chance of mishap behind your lines first turn. None of these things break the game. My point, (one more time) is that they have a huge point advantage in free upgrades. Not broken cheesy stuff, which seems to be the running argument. My concern is that everyone seems to be missing the point that free upgrades all over the place equals point advantage from the start. Show me a power that hits every unit in your opponent's army, on the board or not, with D6 STR10 AP1 hits that costs you 2,000pts to field and I won't complain. It seems about fair for 2k. A really good force weapon for free, however, is not.

Magpiesouth wrote:I wouldn't go so far as to say complete and utter rubbish concerning a 35-40pt cost per model on your strike squad. To be fair, I'm not including the standard reduction for non-optional upgrades there. But to call 'utter tosh' is a bit silly. It's just math. A standard MEQ is roughly 16 pts. A power weapon is 15. That makes 31 pts. They have two psychic powers. Give a point or two per model? Let's call it 32pts. Storm bolters, or it's statline equivalent, will run you 3-10pts from pretty much any codex. Let's call it 5pts. We're up to 37 point models so far. The entire squad's power weapons are force weapons that function better than standard force weapons in that only one psychic test is required to activate them all. Let's call that 1pt per model. That makes a 38pt model. Let's factor in an arbitrary point cost reduction, say 5pts. That makes a strike squad model 33pts, for which you only need pay 20, and I'm being generous.

Terminators have power weapons, storm bolters, improved leadership, and an extra attack, all at 40 points by default. You're saying that your strike squad guy is really worth being only 7 points cheaper than a terminator? And you're being generous.... Do you think that GK terminators should be 55 points? How does that balance with the fact that they can't take storm shields at ANY cost, let alone for free like a lot of other terminators can? How expensive should paladins be? Also, I think people VASTLY overrate force weapons over power weapons. Many times I never end up in a situation where I need to bother activating them. Most of the time there's just too much psychic protection. The rest of the time, there's just not any multiwound models worth hitting with it.

A power weapon on a 3-statline model WILL cost much less than a 15pt average. A unit with a strength 3 and 5+ save can afford to be given a power weapon for practically nothing.

In checkers none of your pieces are overpriced compared to your opponents.

Magpiesouth , first of all never post everything in a single paragraph. It is boring and generally harder to read and you have several places that you can split them as paragraphs.
And that whole paragraph starts with oooh GK s are so ridicolously undercosted qq into , but they are cool can we be friends? You are just throwing gas in a fire but leaving a fire brigade at the back if you get burned.
As deadalus stated you are making this comparison from a regular MEQ vs GKSS which is just a wrong comparison to start with since that comparison will only work with a few units that have similar attributes like terminators and devastators.

To my post below thanks for pointing out my mistakes, i really should check my writing before i post. And i actually made a single criticism which is not my personal opinion but an all around thing as far as I know, if it sounded like a silly thing well i don't care since it wasn't meant for that.
And writing style and grammar are different things i wholly accept that my typing skills are horrible when i dont go back and check every single thing that i wrote.

Regarding the content of your post, I believe that you were attempting to state that a 'regular' MEQ is not equivalent to a GKSS, and if this is the case I'm curious as to what you determine an MEQ to be. How are devastators more similar to terminators than MEQs are to GKSS? I always assumed that the GKSS was an MEQ. Regarding the grammar of your post, I don't think you're in any position to criticize someone else's writing style.

A regular MEQ is what you find under the space marines section in the games workshop site which is "http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/landingArmy.jsp?catId=cat440176a&rootCatGameStyle=".


In this section every single marine in a tactical squad is not a psyker or have the potential for red thirst or a blood claw ....

For the devastators and terminators part i just didn't want to clog the post. I obviously meant devastators can be compared to purgators , and terminators to terminators.

"Terminators have power weapons, storm bolters, improved leadership, and an extra attack, all at 40 points by default. You're saying that your strike squad guy is really worth being only 7 points cheaper than a terminator?"

Yes. That is exactly was I was saying.

Considering a strike squad is similarly equipped, why not? They're not as resilient, but the abilities even out. Besides, your 100 troop squad is going to beat my 200pt elite a little more than half the time. And any one of those guys,even a single 20pt model, stands a solid chance of murdering my 175pt Pedro Kantor. Or my 275 point Tyranofex, which even the th/ss termie can't do. There really isn't much justification for that, or if you can think of one, please let me know. I would love to hear why you think 20pts IS an appropriate cost as opposed to grumpy rhetorical questions.

And pizzaguardian: no extraneous indentations for you.

th/ss terminators can one shot pedro kantor.(str 8 toughness 4 - am i missing something here?)
or a single guardsman with a stray lascannon or a LRBT. There are alot of stuff which can instant kill a T4 character out there.

Magpiesouth wrote: Besides, your 100 troop squad is going to beat my 200pt elite a little more than half the time.

Terminators are twice as hard to kill as power armored strike marines. They also get half as many shots. Neither wants to be in assault with the other.

Curious. I supposed it's just a coincidence.

If every codex had everything valued at the same across the board, what do you have? Some armies are better at things, so they should get those things cheaper, some are worse, some are limited by FOC selections, some are limited by scoring unit...

Voids are a terrifically bad place to compare things that work in concert with others to accomplish their purpose.

I to am under the assumtion that GK is undercosted as a Codex, rather then overpowered.

Force Weapons, Great grenades, and psychic powers across the army are rough, then throw in psi bolt ammo, and Fortitude, ontop of things like quicksilver or sanctuary and things get pretty mean.

As for "Fire dragons and Banshee's being undercosted" i wont buy that. Sure they can murder a unit of marines if the stars and sky align just right and the astral signs are in good moods. But really? in a good fight, banshees will hit on 4's and wound on 5's so a unit of 10 MAY kill 2 marines. MAYBE. then the marines hit back hitting on 4's and wounding on 2's. There goes most the squad (im not throwin in farseer's or doom on the banshee' unit cause they dont come with that basic, where as a unit of strike squad DOES come with hammerhand) As for firedragons having a unit of melta. Yeah its really nasty for a 12 inch range shot that will slag pretty much everything that moves in this game. And the unti is very cheap for what it does....but the second they come out, they die pretty much right after. Heck most of them die in the blast radius of what they just slagged! (always happens to me anyhow) So i dont think they are undercosted because they are still only S3, T3 with a 4+ up save. Easy as heck to burn out.


Grey knights are highly survivable even without stormshields, (Shrouding anyone? 3+ coversave stormravens or paladins?) And they all have MUTLIPLE special abilites, not just like "prefered vs daemons" they all have special grenades, prefered vs daemons, force weapons, psychic abilites, and can come equiped differently with unique weapons that are really well. Not to mention they can all have Str5 stormbolters. (at a cost but seriously....str 5 stormbolters are awesome)

The downfall to the GKs isnt nearly as much as their benifits. No stormshields, not as many attacks vs SW/BA/BT/Other assualt books.....and thats about it.

Their shooting is top notch btw, Psifulman dreadnaughts, regardless of Venerable or not are HARD to put down, you cannot hope to just shake them like other armies, as they can just use fortitude to shoot you up again...with Str8 shots. Psycannons are also great. and Str5 stormbolters destroy at ranged wars. (granted you have to be 24 inchs from something but still...not unlikely to happen alot) and yes stormbolters will only do something to a vehicle if its generally in rear armour, but again thats what the psycannons are for.

there is more, but it just feels most the time to me when i fight grey knights im in an uphill battle no matter what codex i bring, (dark eldar, Eldar, or Daemons) Eldar is probably my strongest dex vs them just because of stones of warding. but its still always feels in at a base disadvantage

Well I was called a cheese for the first time at a tourney against a Necron Player. My BA list was not competitive at all, but he kept on complaining away and not wanting to play against me because he had no chance. I had enough with his complaints and curbed stomped his crons and made them phase out in a capture and control game. He cursed and called my army cheese some more, peged my sportsmanship score (which didn't matter couldn't place since I lost against two good Tau players), and left angerly. Worst game I have ever played, this 20ish year old man acted like he was 12 thoughout the entire game. But itended ended well because the store manager saw me crush him and gave a box of chaos warriors.

junk wrote:Trolling, as in, comparing what magpiesouth said to "this game sucks cuz MAT WARD", was just mocking. Not saying that you don't raise fair points, but theres no need to imply that the person that you're arguing with is a crybaby.

Also, I love the grey knights codex; I'm a fan of GK, of the fluff, the feel of the army, the way that it plays.

Now who's trolling?

SlaveToDorkness wrote:"CHEESE!" Is the battlecry of the ill-prepared.

Going in my Sig

oh but on the OP
Those guys were the donkey caves, you were playing a tournament? If it was a friendly game then I wouldnt care, but a tournament, i would have cussed them out like a marine sargent. Im 13.

Ignore text in red

Omegus wrote:

junk wrote:Trolling, as in, comparing what magpiesouth said to "this game sucks cuz MAT WARD", was just mocking. Not saying that you don't raise fair points, but theres no need to imply that the person that you're arguing with is a crybaby.

Also, I love the grey knights codex; I'm a fan of GK, of the fluff, the feel of the army, the way that it plays.

Now who's trolling?

Don't tempt me, man, I'll crawl out from under this bridge and start regenerating all my hit points. Seriously, I'll stick you with my poisoned ring. I'll gobble up your billy goats. I'll pop a pink tuft of hair out the top of my head and headbang to Dovregubbenshall.