40k Chaos Rumours

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**sonofruss**

I just want my chain Axe's back that is all.

**H.B.M.C.**

DarkStarSabre wrote:However, none of the dreadnoughts have the 'default' Multimelta option. Only the AoBR dread has that. Which means at the very least we can probably expect the Chaos dread to get hosed for the most useful option as that'll probably be in the new starter box.

I hardly think that much thought went into what the Dread was armed with.

**schadenfreude**

I think gw will cut the cost of heavy weapons on havocs down to long fang/ba prices because they are rarely used.

I also think they will do a new plastic kit, and then srew us by inclusing 1 of each hb, ac, ml, and LC in a 5 or 10 man kit.

**aka_mythos**

I'm hoping what happens with havocs will be part of a more comprehensive rethinking of how Chaos should play and how their concept should translate to the tabletop. All armies are afflicted by rules not living upto fluff, Chaos the rules fail to even hint at the concept. Whether Chaos are 10,000 year old warriors or Rengade ex-loyalists turned pirates... the rules don't show either.

If GW does legionaries, they need to be elite on a level similar to the SW army. If they empahsize Renegade they have to have enough variety to represent the struggles of being without a major support infrastructure and acquiring and maintaining whatever you can.

**DarkStarSabre**

aka_mythos wrote:. Whether Chaos are 10,000 year old warriors or Rengade ex-loyalists turned pirates... the rules don't show either.

Instead they are currently struggling renegades equipped with archaic legion equipment.

Which seriously had me asking how that worked. I wonder if every chapter has Reaper Autocannons, combi-weapons etc. locked away in the back of the armoury with the words 'In Case of Heresy, Break Glass'.

**aka_mythos**

Yes... reaper autocannons are kept behind glass marked "In case of heresy, break glass." It would be easy enough for GW to explain how the Chaos Legions interact with the Chaos Renegades... with the simple logical explanation that the Chaos Legions and Chaos Renegades interact with legions providing certain logistical support... like Soviet Russia's willingness to disceminate small arms and training to communist revolutionaries.

**Medium of Death**

God specific terminators would be awesome, none of this icon nonsense, especially Plague Terminators. Do it, GW. Dooo eeeet.

**H.B.M.C.**

As nice as it would be, it doesn't make practical sense. Would you have a single new Terminator kit that has all the Legion (or, for sake of argument, the main four) in the same box? That's a lot of left-over bits. I really don't think GW would waste their time on a single sprue like that.

And I don't think they'd make four more sets of Chaos Terminators to go with the one they've already got.

**aka_mythos**

Medium of Death wrote:God specific terminators would be awesome, none of this icon nonsense, especially Plague Terminators. Do it, GW. Dooo eeeet.

I'd be apprehensive of that. Is anything really accomplished by having your elite section look like this?:

ELITE:
Obliterators
Khorne Terminators
Slannesh Terminators
Nurgle Terminators
Tzeentch Terminators
Chosen
Chosen Terminators
Possessed

You have an Elite section with 5 or 6 different units that are effectively terminators, and play very similarly. That's a level of redundancy that I can live without especially when it carries the implicit fact that those 4 units are at the expense of something more universally useable. It then begs the question, if terminators get this kind of split representation than how about Havocs and bikes?

Is the way to solve Chaos' lack of worthwhile and distinctive unit choices to simply make duplicates of those same units?-I don't think so, at that point you're just playing the odds that one of them will be a little more worthwhile than the rest.

**Medium of Death**

Ninja'd.

Well, in my mind, they wouldn't be four different options. It be just Terminators, but each member of the squad can get a mark of a specific god (each mark has to be the same obviously, and they all need to take it.)

Rumours pointing to Obliterators as Elites?

@HBMC
I don't think they'd do kits either. Rules would be enough for me, personally. I think the current terminator kits can be fairly easily converted to represent four different gods with existing GW bits.

I'd probably opt for oodles of these though.

Spoiler:

Edited for clarity.

**Corsair Princess**

H.B.M.C. wrote:As nice as it would be, it doesn't make practical sense. Would you have a single new Terminator kit that has all the Legion (or, for sake of argument, the main four) in the same box? That's a lot of left-over bits. I really don't think GW would waste their time on a single sprue like that.

And I don't think they'd make four more sets of Chaos Terminators to go with the one they've already got.

Well with their current trend of 2 units in a box I could see it happening, I mean I had a ton of bits leftover from the grey knight boxes and such.

**aka_mythos**

But with god specific terminators you're now talking about 5 units in a box. Relying on FW's pre-existing kits is probably fair enough.

Medium of Death wrote:Ninja'd.
Well, in my mind, they wouldn't be four different options. It be just Terminators, but each member of the squad can get a mark of a specific god (each mark has to be the same obviously, and they all need to take it.)

How is a "mark" any different from an "icon"? It seems like its just meant as a change in nomenclature for the sake of avoiding confussion with the previous edition. Kinda like the IG codex going from "hot-shot lasguns" to "hellguns" back to "hot-shot lasguns" for no other reason that to allow the rules to be different than the imediately preceeding edition.

**ZebioLizard2**

aka_mythos wrote:But with god specific terminators you're now talking about 5 units in a box. Relying on FW's pre-existing kits is probably fair enough.

Medium of Death wrote:Ninja'd.
Well, in my mind, they wouldn't be four different options. It be just Terminators, but each member of the squad can get a mark of a specific god (each mark has to be the same obviously, and they all need to take it.)

How is a "mark" any different from an "icon"? It seems like its just meant as a change in nomenclature for the sake of avoiding confussion with the previous edition. Kinda like the IG codex going from "hot-shot lasguns" to "hellguns" back to "hot-shot lasguns" for no other reason that to allow the rules to be different than the imediately preceeding edition.

Because Icons is a specific troop within the unit, if said icon bearer dies the entire unit loses it. A mark means that there's no ICON BEARER, meaning a stray shot can't murder your entire worship and force you to lose 40 points worth of mark on everyone, also gives the benefit that a Vindicator or that ultramarine's sniper won't ruin your day entirely.

I'd be apprehensive of that. Is anything really accomplished by having your elite section look like this?:

ELITE:
Obliterators
Khorne Terminators
Slannesh Terminators
Nurgle Terminators
Tzeentch Terminators
Chosen
Chosen Terminators
Possessed

It'd probably just be a single option, rather like this

Chaos Terminators:

Take Slaanesh Mark
Gain Slaanesh rules

I mean it's really the same for chaos troops now. Except it's a little more comprehensive about telling about the troops.

Troops are basically

Chaos Space marine
Dedicated God marine (Insert four gods here)

It could work the same way except

Chaos Space Marine
Take Nurgle mark
Gain Plague Marine rules

Like how the Empire codex for fantasy lists all of its state troops in one little section. As in seven to nine troops.

**Experiment 626**

aka_mythos wrote:But with god specific terminators you're now talking about 5 units in a box. Relying on FW's pre-existing kits is probably fair enough.

Medium of Death wrote:Ninja'd.
Well, in my mind, they wouldn't be four different options. It be just Terminators, but each member of the squad can get a mark of a specific god (each mark has to be the same obviously, and they all need to take it.)

How is a "mark" any different from an "icon"? It seems like its just meant as a change in nomenclature for the sake of avoiding confussion with the previous edition. Kinda like the IG codex going from "hot-shot lasguns" to "hellguns" back to "hot-shot lasguns" for no other reason that to allow the rules to be different than the imediately preceeding edition.

Icons are stupid and useless right now because they're expensive sticks that get sniped and then the rest of the unit muddles about trying to remember which god they've just spent centuries or more worshiping!

Proper marks are badly needed - I hate when my termies suddenly forget they're supposed to be I5 just because the dude with the frilly stick drops it.

**biccat**

H.M.B.C. wrote:Which would be a tremendous wasted opportunity. Marines have 4 plastic Dread kits. Surely Chaos can have one. Plus the Chaos Dread hasn’t gone Finecost, so there’s a chance that’s because they’re doing a plastic one and there’s no reason to switch mediums.

I was going to say 5, but apparently Bjorn is a metal model.

Also, I don't know where you get the idea that the new Chaos transport will be a flying skull with aerodynamic spikes. When has GW ever made an aerodynamic flyer?

**Marthike**

timetowaste85 wrote:
Marthike wrote:black templar will be next. if there is a codex release every 3 month then you might get tau seanking in before black templar.

However, the chances are low so I can say 90% sure black templar is next.

definatly not chaos.

Proof? Where are you getting this info from?

Also, at Brother SRM's post: I like the current Berzerkers...I think they're a fun kit. I've purchased 30 models for them

I have my sources

**Kairos**

Marthike wrote:
timetowaste85 wrote:
Marthike wrote:black templar will be next. if there is a codex release every 3 month then you might get tau seanking in before black templar.

However, the chances are low so I can say 90% sure black templar is next.

definatly not chaos.

Proof? Where are you getting this info from?

Also, at Brother SRM's post: I like the current Berzerkers...I think they're a fun kit. I've purchased 30 models for them

I have my sources

If you are going to make a bold claim like this, we need more than "I have my sources".

Otherwise, this is just more Ghost21 double talk.

All current\leaked information at this point says Dark Angels are next, followed by 6th Edition, followed by Chaos Space Marines.

**Brother SRM**

schadenfreude wrote:I think gw will cut the cost of heavy weapons on havocs down to long fang/ba prices because they are rarely used.

I also think they will do a new plastic kit, and then srew us by inclusing 1 of each hb, ac, ml, and LC in a 5 or 10 man kit.

It would probably be just like the Space Marine Devastator kit, which has a sundry mix of heavy weapons, with multiples of some and singles of some others.

**Azreal13**

aka_mythos wrote:I'm hoping what happens with havocs will be part of a more comprehensive rethinking of how Chaos should play and how their concept should translate to the tabletop. All armies are afflicted by rules not living upto fluff, Chaos the rules fail to even hint at the concept. Whether Chaos are 10,000 year old warriors or Rengade ex-loyalists turned pirates... the rules don't show either.

If GW does legionaries, they need to be elite on a level similar to the SW army. If they empahsize Renegade they have to have enough variety to represent the struggles of being without a major support infrastructure and acquiring and maintaining whatever you can.

I could see this working, as you suggest, along the lines of Wolf Guard. Introducing a "Legionnaire" stat line for models that can be taken as elite units or split off to lead units of 'lesser' Marines, representing individuals that had been created post-Heresy and therefore weren't as experienced/tough as those that date from that time. There is fluff precedent for Legions stealing geneseed and using it to replace losses, and could be quite workable on the tabletop.

**odorofdeath**

God-specific Terminators? With upgrade sprues for each God? Come now people.

There will be Chosen Terminators.

You can give them Marks. Or Icons, whatever.

That is all. That is all there ever has been. That is all there ever will be. As much as I want my 2 Wound Terminators back, those days are over.

Havocs will probably be amazing, because presently they suck and are hard to find; this follows GW's business model.

Ditto for Dreadnoughts, Raptors, Land Raiders, Thousand Sons and Emperor's Children.

**DarkStarSabre**

odorofdeath wrote:God-specific Terminators? With upgrade sprues for each God? Come now people.

Yes, because they wouldn't produce a god-specific sprue of Terminator components and never release it. Wait, they already did that.

**odorofdeath**

Where is this madness?? I've never seen this around GWs website...

unless... Forgeworld?

**Brother SRM**

odorofdeath wrote:Where is this madness?? I've never seen this around GWs website...

unless... Forgeworld?

This is the only set I can think of:

Those are mostly Slaanesh-based though. You wouldn't see them on the GW website because they're unreleased.

**DarkStarSabre**

Unreleased. They cropped up at Games Day a few years back when the CSM stuff was released. I'll hunt a photo when not at work.

EDIT: Brother SRM has got it!

**odorofdeath**

Nice! I stand corrected.

Lash whips for Slaanesh Termies, please!

**Kroothawk**

straightsilver wrote:I do understand that there are some things in 40K that don't need to be expanded ad infinitum as your example proves.

However there is a big difference between Chaos Space Marines (Renegades) and Chaos Legionnaires, and this used to be represented in the Codex before last.

GW in their great wisdom (or rather Jervis and Alessio) decided that that particular Codex was way too complicated and as part of their over simplification drive took a chain axe to it and stripped out what was essentially all the best bits.

The intention was to seperate Renegades and Legionnaires and hopefully release a Legions Codex at a later date, as they have said in interviews since.

They realised immediately that the Chaos Space Marines Codex was massively over simplified and set to work straight away to begin planning the Legions Codex.

Chaos Space Marine Renegades are small roving war bands of Chaos Marines who have either spilt from their original Legion (Fabius Bile, Kharn, Ahriman etc), or are Loyalist marines disillusioned with the Imperium who have turned traitor (Huron Blackheart).

Over time they have picked up some influence from Chaos, but are made up of disparate bands of warriors.

Admittedly the curve ball is having Black Legion and Abaddon in the CSM Codex and I am not sure what will happen there.

The Legions however are those who took part in the Heresy and have been fighting the long war ever since.

These are not simple roving war bands engaging in hit and run raid across the Imperium, but the remnants of full Legions.

As an example Iron Warriors have access to artillery (usually Basilisks), Daemon Engines and Dark Mechanicus.

Alpha Legion have bands of cultists or the ability to infiltrate into society.

World Eaters have blood crazed Marines riding Juggernauts into battle.

etc, etc.

All of this used to be represented in the CSM Codex but was removed. The idea is to try to get this flavour back in one way or another.

Chaos players felt very hard done by with the last CSM Codex, they had these differences and they were taken away, what they were left with were closer to Renegades than Legionnaries.

Alessio and Jervis have both sad that they would like the CSM Codex to stay as Renegades, and to release another Codex which would address the Alpha Legion, Iron Warriors, World Eaters, Emperor's Children etc.

I may of course be completely wrong, the next Codex might just be a rehash of the current one and replace it, but that's not what I have heard.

**Medium of Death**

GW, y you no release upgrade sprue?

Is Straightsilver reliable?

I thought the two codex rumour was out the window?

**ZebioLizard2**

Medium of Death wrote:GW, y you no release upgrade sprue?

Is Straightsilver reliable?

I thought the two codex rumour was out the window?

It wasn't all Ghost21 that stated that, there were actually about three to five people saying it.

**DarkStarSabre**

Brother SRM wrote:
Those are mostly Slaanesh-based though. You wouldn't see them on the GW website because they're unreleased.

Actually, not so.

There was Slaanesh, Nurgle and Tzeentch in that layout. I remember looking at them all at Games Day - there's flaming Tzeentch weapons, Nurgle 'Typhus' racks, head and Nurgling and Slaanesh sonic weapons.

**Brother SRM**

DarkStarSabre wrote:
Brother SRM wrote:
Those are mostly Slaanesh-based though. You wouldn't see them on the GW website because they're unreleased.

Actually, not so.

There was Slaanesh, Nurgle and Tzeentch in that layout. I remember looking at them all at Games Day - there's flaming Tzeentch weapons, Nurgle 'Typhus' racks, head and Nurgling and Slaanesh sonic weapons.

From the angle of the photo, I'm just calling it like I see it. I see the Nurgle chimneys but most other things are facing the wrong way. I just saw tentacles and a Slaanesh icon is all.