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I think it depends on meta and personal preference more than anything.

What might be inefficient on paper, is godly in practice.

MarkCron wrote:@Psucifer : Are you having problems with the immortals running off the board?

Every time I try running large blocks of warriors (say 15+) or 10+ Immortals, they get CC'd by something and run off the board. I seem to spend most of the game trying to stop anything getting to them (and as I'm playing Nids quite often, that plan isn't working). I'm not finding the fun in that.

I don't care if 5 warriors and a lancetek get slaughtered, but something about a large block heading the wrong way really gets to me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
PS, yes they take the phaeron/orblord/veiltek etc with them.

One big problem with running necron blobs is the expense. You don't have much else to throw around, and they don't have the versatility to be good in a number of situations. You have to play very smart with them to not find them in a situation where they are wasting their incredible expenditure. It is also really hard to play smart with a unit when you don't have a lot of tricks up your sleeve, or extra units providing actions. Your blob is expensive, necron tricks are also expensive, so you wont have a lot to play with sadly.

Going over the top is one idea. I mean, how much is going to be able to survive a 20 man warrior squad and 2/3 warscythe/MSS Lords? Well, maybe they don't have to? Maybe it can be avoided? Also, you can only rapidfire one squad a turn and you've only got so many attacks, the rest is just vulnerable buffer.

My advice these days, is try to pick either a middle ground, or try your best to play standard. Big fat necron synergy and resilience is pretty impressive, but sometimes you forget what else you are losing out on. You might feel like you are wasting the army, or points on units, if you aren't playing into their special abilities, but you don't have to go at it hard. It's one of the moments where GW has succeeded in making something that isn't a black and white decision. Or maybe they just tried to make something cool and it turned out bad... I'm not too sure yet.

Warrior vs immortal decisions and transport options are such interesting decisions! So many options in this dex are so expensive and cumbersome, you really have to think!

Also, as far as I've used them, veilsteks feel a bit like traps. I think they can be okay, but they really need to be understood to be used well consistently and I can't make that claim yet. 60 points for a really unreliable speed boost, that subjects your expensive, delicate, very specifically effective unit to chaotic dice rolls. It also puts all sorts of bad ideas in your head about the template weapon, or if you are conservative like me, wastes it's intrinsic cost. I have no idea why it's so expensive. It's really no transport.

If you keep having these problems, but you feel like you need sturdier units to hold objectives or need more out of your slots, I really recommend reading some articles on blocking, bubble-wrapping. It helped me a bunch!

@ChronoMark, I agree the ghost arks are pricey. But most of my targets are searchlight AV11's, and for them more than two lances will be overkill.

Bear in mind that I'm playing a pure night-fight list with Imotekh, so I've got to worry about night range during my turn also. At least for the first little while. So you probably have more lucrative AV12 targets than I do. <shrug>

One big problem with running necron blobs is the expense. You don't have much else to throw around, and they don't have the versatility to be good in a number of situations.

They can damage any unit in the game (save the increasingly rare T8) so I'm not sure what you are referring to in regards to not versatile enough. If properly created they are more then a match for the most common CC opponents as well.


Personally I think the two mistakes I've seen the msot with blobs are:

1.) Not creating/supporting them properly

2.) Not realizing that if your going blob you don't need 4 to 6 troop choices. Really, 2 blobs can be quite adequate.

For context I use them in an Imo CC list, so anything getting to my warriors has already found a way through 75% of the rest of my list which is dedicated CC. I could see blobs being a liability in a primarily shooty list.

I'm currently trying to find a way to include a third Ghost Ark in my list. This would take my AV13 vehicle count to a mighty TEN, which I believe is more than any other army can put out at 2000 points.

Three Ghost Arks with a small warrior squad and two Lanceteks in each is quite nice I think. Actually, come to think of it, the warriors and the side mounted flayers can shoot at the same time right? If so, that's an insane amount of FP at 12".

Yup, the warriors and one side of the array can hit one target, whiel the other side of the array can shoot at a different target.

Ten Av13?....


ah, 2 CCBs, 3 Arks, 3 Anni barges, 2 Stalkers?

Jeez that's knocking on 1400 just for the vehicles and the lords in the CCB. What else are you fielding in a 2000 point list?!

With 10 AV13 vehicles, I'd play 1500 pts and I'd put warriors on the GA. Imagine fronting that

At 2000 that's plenty of space for a unit of wraiths, 15 warriors and the balance of lanceteks. Awesome

Puscifer wrote:I'm currently trying to find a way to include a third Ghost Ark in my list. This would take my AV13 vehicle count to a mighty TEN, which I believe is more than any other army can put out at 2000 points.

My Blood Angels Mech can certainly do better than that, but your point is taken....that's quite a lot of AV13.

One big problem with running necron blobs is the expense. You don't have much else to throw around, and they don't have the versatility to be good in a number of situations.

I agree with expense being the problem with necron blobs. For several games after the codex came out I tried 15-20 Warrior blobs with various combinations of Lords, Overlords and cryptecs plus the occasional Ghost Ark. I found that I could make the blobs inccredibly hard to kill with some of the cool wargear we have but they just dont cause enough damage for their points cost and can be ignored too easily.

Randall Turner wrote:@ChronoMark, I agree the ghost arks are pricey. But most of my targets are searchlight AV11's, and for them more than two lances will be overkill.

Bear in mind that I'm playing a pure night-fight list with Imotekh, so I've got to worry about night range during my turn also. At least for the first little while. So you probably have more lucrative AV12 targets than I do. <shrug>

More than 2 lances are not overkill against AV11. 2 Lances gives 1.3 hits, 0.66 pens, 0.22 wrecked/explode, half that if theres a cover save.
In an Imotekh list though you definatly dont want to be spending many points on 36" range guns so I can understand that.

ShadarLogoth wrote:

One big problem with running necron blobs is the expense. You don't have much else to throw around, and they don't have the versatility to be good in a number of situations.

They can damage any unit in the game (save the increasingly rare T8) so I'm not sure what you are referring to in regards to not versatile enough. If properly created they are more then a match for the most common CC opponents as well.


Personally I think the two mistakes I've seen the msot with blobs are:

1.) Not creating/supporting them properly

2.) Not realizing that if your going blob you don't need 4 to 6 troop choices. Really, 2 blobs can be quite adequate.

For context I use them in an Imo CC list, so anything getting to my warriors has already found a way through 75% of the rest of my list which is dedicated CC. I could see blobs being a liability in a primarily shooty list.

Perhaps that is my problem, as I tend to use a lot of shooting. I've been really excited about a CC list of late though, so maybe I'll learn, but for now, I'd much rather have my overlords contributing their own actions than helping another unit, and I'm also trying to keep my scoring units cheap and plentiful, but I can see how blobs might work just as well. I just cant imagine myself building around both blobs and cc. I'd love to see your write up.

I also don't trust gauss flayers much. For 20 gauss shots you've got something like .7 chance of glancing into a weapon destroyed or immobilized without cover. You double that of course a range 12, but that's still not much for the commitment of a bajillion guys worth of shooting. They also only tend to kill something like 2 marines per 20 shots in my experience. I consider them too inefficient at most tasks to warrant them committing too many turns to a wasteful task. I acknowledge that a large part of their value is gained without having to take actions at all, they sit on the table and look scary really well, and they also make shooting at them feel really depressing, but again, how many points are you willing to devote to crappy versatility. How much do you have left for support after buying a phaeron a lord and 15-20 warriors (and even an ark). I find myself wanting more actions than what this set up gives me.

Committing so heavily to making it a beast in CC is also a hard sell, but probably one of the most fun things in the game for me. 2/3 x warscythe and MSS sitting with a bunch of ablative wounds and an ark for blocking becomes really interesting. I keep finding the Ark to have more and more value as an add on. Maybe it's just my trying to find ways to justify it's ludicrous cost.

Praxiss wrote:Yup, the warriors and one side of the array can hit one target, whiel the other side of the array can shoot at a different target.

Ten Av13?....


ah, 2 CCBs, 3 Arks, 3 Anni barges, 2 Stalkers?

Jeez that's knocking on 1400 just for the vehicles and the lords in the CCB. What else are you fielding in a 2000 point list?!

I'm working that out now... Will post the list later today.

I have started using my host Ark as A) a lance gunboat, and b) a movebale Av13 wall to give my scarabs cover whiel they move up the table (assumign that cover is scarce).

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:

Randall Turner wrote:@ChronoMark, I agree the ghost arks are pricey. But most of my targets are searchlight AV11's, and for them more than two lances will be overkill.

Bear in mind that I'm playing a pure night-fight list with Imotekh, so I've got to worry about night range during my turn also. At least for the first little while. So you probably have more lucrative AV12 targets than I do. <shrug>

More than 2 lances are not overkill against AV11. 2 Lances gives 1.3 hits, 0.66 pens, 0.22 wrecked/explode, half that if theres a cover save.
In an Imotekh list though you definatly dont want to be spending many points on 36" range guns so I can understand that.

Well, you reach the "overkill" point as soon as you have a reasonable chance of using the Chronotek. Not when you're guaranteed to kill the transport. Anything past the point of having a guaranteed reroll opportunity you're losing the benefit of bunching the lanceteks up with the Chronotek. Aaaand, of course, your figures for hit/pen/damage aren't taking into account the chrono rerolls.

Dos the ChronoTek let reroll one dice roll or the entire roll for a unit?

Example - 4 lanceTek all shoot and 3 miss. Assuming there is a Chronotek in the unit can they re-roll all 3 misses or just one of them?

One die roll only.

Praxiss wrote:Dos the ChronoTek let reroll one dice roll or the entire roll for a unit?

Example - 4 lanceTek all shoot and 3 miss. Assuming there is a Chronotek in the unit can they re-roll all 3 misses or just one of them?

Randall Turner wrote:One die roll only.

You don't use the Chronoteks to re-roll misses, you use them to re-roll on the DMG chart. As I've just noticed and had it confirmed from Randall, this is why I've dropped the Chronoteks from my latest lists - one die re-roll isn't worth it.

10 AV13 Spam list:

Overlord = 210
Warscythe, Sempiternal Weave, Mindshackle Scarabs, CCB.
Overlord = 210
Warscythe, Sempiternal Weave, Mindshackle Scarabs, CCB.

Triarch Stalker = 150
Heat Ray.
Triarch Stalker = 150
Heat Ray.

5 Warriors + 2 Harbingers of Destruction = 155
Solar Pulse.
Ghost Ark = 115
5 Warriors + 2 Harbingers of Destruction = 155
Solar Pulse.
Ghost Ark = 115
5 Warriors + 2 Harbingers of Destruction = 135
Ghost Ark = 115

6 Scarab Bases = 90
1 Heavy Destroyer = 65
1 Heavy Destroyer = 65

Annihilation Barge = 90
Annihilation Barge = 90
Annihilation Barge = 90

A second squad fo scarabs? Or a small squad of Tomb Blades?

I would say Spyders but your HS slots be full.

I was thinking of dropping 2 bases of Scarabs in favour of 2 Heavy Destroyers, but at £17 a model, they are a little pricey and I doubt their effectiveness if they are not Twin Linked by the Stalkers.

Although, a second unit of Scarabs could be pretty good.

I always field a squad of Heavy Destroyers. they might only get one shot each but you can have a sqaud of 3.

Admittedly i use Zandy with them for tank hunters.

Yeah, I think 2 Heavy Destroyers will be good in this list. 2 squads of one hovering around the board edges or behind one of my vehicles. End of the day, it's another two Anti Armour shots that can get Twin Linked.

Especially used with your Pulses. With Nightfighting in effect the opponent will need to roll all sixes to see them if they hover at max range.

I've updated the list. Cannot wait to try it out.

Just need to get:

1 Ghost Ark
2 Barges
2 Heavy Destroyers - which I'll probably convert from left over Triarch parts, using the Heavy Cannons from the Stalker.

Go for it. The Finecast H.Destroyer conversion kit is pants. Too fiddly and will snap in a heartbeat. i am just going to proxy normal Destroyers until i can source fairly cheap triarch cannons.

I dont see why GW didn't just put the Triarch havy cannon in the conversion kit instead.

Praxiss wrote:Go for it. The Finecast H.Destroyer conversion kit is pants. Too fiddly and will snap in a heartbeat. i am just going to proxy normal Destroyers until i can source fairly cheap triarch cannons.

I dont see why GW didn't just put the Triarch havy cannon in the conversion kit instead.

I'm going to have two spare Triarch Cannons which I was going to put on Ebay.

PM Sent

My AV13 wall list is similar, but focused a little more on the armor.

Overlord (CCB with Gauss Cannon, Warscythe)
Overlord (CCB with Gauss Cannon, Warscythe)
Royal Court (4x Lanceteks, 1x Solar Pulse)
Royal Court (4x Lanceteks, 1x Solar Pulse)

Triarch Stalker (TL Heavy Gauss Cannon)
Triarch Stalker (TL Heavy Gauss Cannon)

5x Warriors (Ghost Ark)
5x Warriors (Ghost Ark)
5x Warriors (Ghost Ark)
5x Warriors (Ghost Ark)

Anni Barge (Gauss Cannon)
Anni Barge (Gauss Cannon)
Anni Barge (Gauss Cannon)

I'm considering swapping the H. Gauss Cannon for the Heat Ray, then giving the Overlords MSS.

I've done okay with proxying the models I don't have. Going to wait till 6th hits and I get a chance to look it over before I finish buying the stuff for this, or buy all the Scythes I need for my Scythespam list. Just depends on which one will work better in the new enviorment.

Heat Ray is much better than the HGC. Popping AV14 up close and two shots is always a plus.

Puscifer wrote:Heat Ray is much better than the HGC. Popping AV14 up close and two shots is always a plus.

I really dig the Heat Ray's versatility, but the HGCs ability to stand and deliver at the peripheries of Night Fighting range tremendously boost the Stalkers survivability. Also, the better range helps snuff out castled in heavy support vehicles (against IG in particular).

ShadarLogoth wrote:

Puscifer wrote:Heat Ray is much better than the HGC. Popping AV14 up close and two shots is always a plus.

I really dig the Heat Ray's versatility, but the HGCs ability to stand and deliver at the peripheries of Night Fighting range tremendously boost the Stalkers survivability. Also, the better range helps snuff out castled in heavy support vehicles (against IG in particular).

Very true. I suppose it comes down to if you take Heavy Destroyers. I do and I keep them back, while the AV13 moves up to support.

Quick question to you guys...

The Heat Ray has two settings... Can it shoot both in the same turn, being that it's mounted on a walker?

No. It's one gun with two profiles, not two separate guns.