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@praxiss, I'm currently running a Zandhrek, Obyron Anrakyr combo at 2000pts. (This is the FunCron list I posted a couple of weeks ago).

I find that Zandy is still useful and I like the Zandy/Anrakyr combo, mainly because the buff of Immortals to Eternals means I can focus Zandy where I need him most, but always have the Eternals with FC and CA.

However, I'm not sure Oby is worth his points. Ghostwalk mantle is nice, but I find that he needs a body guard with invul save. Otherwise, he's toast to either shooting or power weapons. For 160 points I reckon he's not worth it.

@puscifer, I've trialled the ghost ark gunboat as well. Worked great until the GA died. Then the Crypteks got very lonely real fast. Now I'm playing with 5 warriors, lancetek, chronotek to see if that gives better flexibility. This seems to be working ok but jury is still out.

I've tried Flayed Ones in an Imotek list and they are really good there because of the Bloodswarm Nanoscarabs. I would strongly suggest trying them.

DS them next to the swarmed squad (Devastators are a good target) and watch your opponent have trouble choosing who to fight.

Puscifer wrote:I'm also thinking of dropping Doomsday and taking two Ghost Arks to use as Gunboats for three man Royal Court: 2 Destruction (one with Pulse) and a Chronotek for those important re-rolls on the damage chart if needed.

Why not go all out and put 4 Lance-teks in the boat with the Chrono-tek? Surely that would have to be devastating.
(or would it border on OP?)

It's not op at all. It's very very expensive and a huge target.

Giving the Arks a two or three shot lance plus Chronotek is just the sweet spot. I'm leaning towards a 2 shot as it is pretty cheap and makes the Ark a nasty tank killer without becoming a big target and it can still repair a unit of Warriors.

I'm going for two of these "Destructor) Arks in 2k. They seem to go well with my shooty theme using Stalkers to mark targets.

I think Stalkers are THE key unit in Shooty lists. They link the rest of the army vs one unit and it's another AV 13 mech.

skoffs wrote:

Puscifer wrote:I'm also thinking of dropping Doomsday and taking two Ghost Arks to use as Gunboats for three man Royal Court: 2 Destruction (one with Pulse) and a Chronotek for those important re-rolls on the damage chart if needed.

Why not go all out and put 4 Lance-teks in the boat with the Chrono-tek? Surely that would have to be devastating.(or would it border on OP?)

Sweet spot's probably two.

You don't want more because they'll waste shots. They all have to fire at the same target, after it's dead, welp, you're just bouncing the rubble.

Need more than just one chrono-lance pair, though, to avoid wasting your chrono reroll. With one, you can hit but then he makes his cover save. Can't reroll *his* rolls, chrono is wasted. So you'll need more shots to get through it and get into the penetration/results bit. A second lance will pretty much assure you'll have one roll to re-roll.

too bad you can't get the two Lances AND the Chrono-tek in with 5 Warriors...
(at least, not outside of Apocalypse)

It's sort of fun to throw together a transport and a couple specialist characters to put together your own mini-psyfleman. Lessee, we have...

AV13, s8 ap2 36" assault 2 chron-linked 225pts (Ghost Ark with Crypteks)
AV12, s8 ap4 48" heavy 4 twin-linked 130pts (Psyfleman)

we've got almost half the firepower for only double the points, except we can't melee, woo hoo!!

edit: head-butt for me the next guy tells you GK isn't OP.

The Ghost Tank is more expensive than that. Add 150 points for a Stalker to twin link it. The Chrono ReRoll is used in the DMG table.

Thats why I run 2-3 lance warriors units with triarch stalkers. At worst kills nothing, at best kills 3. Lances are trying to be long fangs. Split fire is what makes zee long fangs work

skoffs wrote:too bad you can't get the two Lances AND the Chrono-tek in with 5 Warriors...
(at least, not outside of Apocalypse)

Leth wrote: Split fire is what makes zee long fangs work

Being able to split fire from 4 lanceteks in an ark would be nice!! You could always attach 2 crypteks to 2 sets of five warriors get the warriors killed off, then put the remaining crypteks, warriors into the Ghost Ark!

Actually, if you had two groups of 2 crypteks from different royal courts, are they allowed to share a ghost ark?

No you can't. You can only put one unit in a transport unless it has rules saying otherwise (see Stormraven) and crypteks may never join another unit than the one they deployed with.

These are the lists I've come up with so far for the models I own. I can't decide which one to build my collection as. They both have benefits of massive firepower and a huge amount of AV 13:

Shooty Necrons.

Overlord = 210. 
Warscythe, Tachyon Arrow, CCB.
Overlord = 210. 
Warscythe, Tachyon Arrow, CCB.

Royal Court = 130. 
2 Harbingers of Destruction, 1 Solar Pulse, 1 Harbinger of Transmogrification, 1 Chronometron. 
Royal Court = 130. 
2 Harbingers of Destruction, 1 Solar Pulse, 1 Harbinger of Transmogrification, 1 Chronometron. 

Triarch Stalker = 150. 
Heat Ray.
Triarch Stalker = 150. 
Heat Ray.

6 Warriors and Harbinger of Destruction = 113. 
6 Warriors and Harbinger of Destruction = 113. 
6 Warriors and Harbinger of Destruction = 113. 
6 Warriors and Harbinger of Destruction = 113. 

9 Immortals = 170.

Annihilation Barge = 90.
Doomsday Ark = 175.
Doomsday Ark = 175.

1995/2000

Or

Overlord = 130.
Warscythe, Tachyon Arrow.
Overlord = 130.
Warscythe, Tachyon Arrow.

Royal Court = 130. 
2 Harbingers of Destruction, 1 Solar Pulse, 1 Harbinger of Transmogrification, 1 Chronometron. 
Royal Court = 130. 
2 Harbingers of Destruction, 1 Solar Pulse, 1 Harbinger of Transmogrification, 1 Chronometron. 

Triarch Stalker = 150. 
Heat Ray.
Triarch Stalker = 150. 
Heat Ray.

5 Warriors and Harbinger of Destruction = 100.
5 Warriors and Harbinger of Destruction = 100. 
5 Warriors and Harbinger of Destruction = 100. 
Ghost Ark = 115. 
5 Warriors and Harbinger of Destruction = 100. 
Ghost Ark = 115. 

10 Immortals = 170. 
Tesla Carbine.

7 Scarab Bases = 105.

Annihilation Barge = 90.
Annihilation Barge = 90.
Annihilation Barge = 90.

1995/2000.

In the second list, the Royal Courts travel in the Ghost Arks to make them into quite nasty mobile battle tanks that can re-roll on the DMG table vs vehicles.
The plan is simple:
Early game, Pulse until I'm in range.
When in range, always fire the Heat Ray to gain Twin Linked vs the two units that have been shot at. Proceed to destroy said targets with Lanceteks. Mop up the contents (if any) with Doomsday Arks or Annihilation Barges.

First time being sigged...I'm honoured.

Haven't tried a long range shooty list with the Crons yet and I don't think I have it in me to try until my current army is built. Personally I would like to proxy out a couple of Gunboat Arks (3x Destroteks in each), a couple of Triarch Stalkers, 2/3 min Warriors, 1x larger Warrior squad and 3 Doomsday Arks. Zahndrekh seems almost obligatory here since he gets the all important res-orb with defensive upgrades for only 5pts more than what you would normally pay on an Overlord. Tank Hunters is well worth 5pts.

But that's just me. Still far too fascinated with Wraiths, CCB's and Doom Scythes to move on to that yet.

Overlord = 210.
Warscythe, Tachyon Arrow, CCB.
Overlord = 210.
Warscythe, Tachyon Arrow, CCB.

I'd drop the Arrows, and you can purchase MSS, and Weaves for the Overlords. Arrows are really not worth their points cost. The Weave and Shackles make it so the Overlord isn't totally useless when he gets dethroned.

Royal Court = 130.
2 Harbingers of Destruction, 1 Solar Pulse, 1 Harbinger of Transmogrification, 1 Chronometron.
Royal Court = 130.
2 Harbingers of Destruction, 1 Solar Pulse, 1 Harbinger of Transmogrification, 1 Chronometron.

Pretty good choices.

Triarch Stalker = 150.
Heat Ray.
Triarch Stalker = 150.
Heat Ray.

Good for adding more AV13, and tankbusting.

6 Warriors and Harbinger of Destruction = 113.
6 Warriors and Harbinger of Destruction = 113.
6 Warriors and Harbinger of Destruction = 113.
6 Warriors and Harbinger of Destruction = 113.

You could cut down to the minimim size warrior squads, and not really loose anything. My troop squads almost never get touched by anything.

9 Immortals = 170.

If you want a squad of Immortals, you could consider giving them Tesla Carbines, and a Veiltek. This will allow you to grab Objectives late game, and move around and shoot at vunerable targets as well. I'd consider dropping a warrior squad if you are taking these, you really don't need 5 sets of troops.

Annihilation Barge = 90.
Doomsday Ark = 175.
Doomsday Ark = 175.

I feel the Doomsday Arks are our weakest choice in the Heavy support slot. I have played with them, and Own two of them myself, and they are just not worth their points. They can be scary, but even with the Twin-linking from the Stalkers, they really are not that good. You can drop these, and do numerous things to tweak your list. You're missing out on Wraiths, Spyders, and Scarabs, which some of the best units in the Codex. You could 1-for-1 swap these for two Doom Scythes, and it would probably be a better choice.

How often are you lot excited about charging with your immortals? How big of a difference is the chance of counter attack or 5 strength making for you? I can understand charging to control casualties from shooting but how much is being very slightly better at it worth to you? How much investing in it do you want to do? I payed 17 points per model for a sturdy mobile gun I wanted to be shooting and hopefully moving into scoring with, not getting tied up combat. They still pale in comparison to most un impressive cc units like assault marines and fnp witches.

My problem with zandy isn't that he's overpriced for what he has, it's that he has very little I can see myself consistently wanting. He makes for nice wound allocation and immortal survival, tank hunters and stealth really come in handy and are buffs you can play around and take to the bank, but what is that worth? A barge lord does his own killing really really well. He also has 2 life times and is working hard for you in every phase. Zandy seems like he's just for fun. He's got some really cute utility, and he will lead to tonnes of great stories but he's an awfully expensive 3 wounds, staff of light and resurrection orb, and at the end of the day how often do you feel like those things are worth paying for?

Sasori...

I tried the Doom Scythe, to not great effect. Too many Psyflemen Dreads and Hydra Flak Tanks in my meta for it to be good, where as the Doomsday Ark have been ok.
I stress ok, as they are only good against TEQ armies and Hordes.

What about the second list?
It seems to be more stable.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another list to add to the Musing. I still can't believe this is 2000 points and how much easier it was to add awesomeness by dropping 10 Immortals:

Overlord = 210. 
Warscythe, Sempiternal Weave, Mindshackle Scarabs, CCB.
Overlord = 210.
Warscythe, Sempiternal Weave, Mindshackle Scarabs, CCB.

Royal Court = 130. 
2 Harbingers of Destruction, 1 Solar Pulse, 1 Harbinger of Transmogrification, 1 Chronometron. 
Royal Court = 130. 
2 Harbingers of Destruction, 1 Solar Pulse, 1 Harbinger of Transmogrification, 1 Chronometron. 

Triarch Stalker = 150. 
Heat Ray.
Triarch Stalker = 150. 
Heat Ray.

5 Warriors and Harbinger of Destruction = 100.
5 Warriors and Harbinger of Destruction = 100. 
5 Warriors and Harbinger of Destruction = 100. 
Ghost Ark = 115. 
5 Warriors and Harbinger of Destruction = 100. 
Ghost Ark = 115. 

8 Scarab Bases = 120.

Annihilation Barge = 90.
Annihilation Barge = 90.
Annihilation Barge = 90.

2000/2000.

Again the Royal Courts go in the Ghost Arks.
Same tactic as before, Pulse until I'm in range, fire the Stalkers first and then destroy those targets with unrelenting Firepower.

The Annihilation Barges mop up what's left of the target.

I think this will work vs Hordes of Orks and Nids, but against GK or other lists I'm not sure. I think it will erase TEQ armies (specifically Draigowing) thanks to mass AP2 Firepower.

Any thoughts?

Lucre wrote:How often are you lot excited about charging with your immortals? How big of a difference is the chance of counter attack or 5 strength making for you? I can understand charging to control casualties from shooting but how much is being very slightly better at it worth to you? How much investing in it do you want to do? I payed 17 points per model for a sturdy mobile gun I wanted to be shooting and hopefully moving into scoring with, not getting tied up combat. They still pale in comparison to most un impressive cc units like assault marines and fnp witches.

My problem with zandy isn't that he's overpriced for what he has, it's that he has very little I can see myself consistently wanting. He makes for nice wound allocation and immortal survival, tank hunters and stealth really come in handy and are buffs you can play around and take to the bank, but what is that worth? A barge lord does his own killing really really well. He also has 2 life times and is working hard for you in every phase. Zandy seems like he's just for fun. He's got some really cute utility, and he will lead to tonnes of great stories but he's an awfully expensive 3 wounds, staff of light and resurrection orb, and at the end of the day how often do you feel like those things are worth paying for?

Admittedly i have only used him once but i find that Zandy is a worthwhile investment for Tank Hunter alone. I suppose it depends on what you field. I usually field a squad fo 3 Heavy Ds, and being able to make them S10 is a massive boost. Alternativly, S8 Anni Barges could be fun too.

I have played Anrakyr in a coupel of games and found buffing the Immortals to be.....inefficient at best. As you said, Immortals are not a unit that you want to charge in, they are a unit you want torudge up with their assault guns and blast the stuffing out of stuff. But i still really like him for the giggle of using an opponents tanks against them.

I would run double harbinger of destruction in your warrior units if you can find the points. Since you have two overlordds anyway. Having two strength 8 shots on the move is really REALLY good.

You can't run two members of the court in one squad. It states this clearly on the Royal Court entry in the army list.

You can run them in multiples of Royal Court units but not in other squads.

Puscifer wrote:You can't run two members of the court in one squad. It states this clearly on the Royal Court entry in the army list.

You can run them in multiples of Royal Court units but not in other squads.

but as he stated above, he has 2 OverLords. So each overlord coudl assign a single Cryptek to the same squad.

I usually do this to get 2 LanceTeks in a Ghost Ark.

Puscifer wrote:You can't run two members of the court in one squad. It states this clearly on the Royal Court entry in the army list.

You can run them in multiples of Royal Court units but not in other squads.

You might want to check out the Necron FAQ mate:

Necron FAQ wrote:Q: If I have 2 Royal Courts, can one model from each
be attached to the same unit? (p90)
A: Yes.

Praxiss wrote:
I have played Anrakyr in a coupel of games and found buffing the Immortals to be.....inefficient at best. As you said, Immortals are not a unit that you want to charge in, they are a unit you want torudge up with their assault guns and blast the stuffing out of stuff. But i still really like him for the giggle of using an opponents tanks against them.

I like the Eternals, mainly because they are a free upgrade. The FC and counter attack are helpful in giving them a chance to survive a CC encounter, but not for treating them as a dedicated CC unit. Course, if you are going to get assaulted might as well shoot then assault to take advantage of the FC. Basically, anything that helps a block of 10+ shooty warriors not run off the board is helpful! Having said that I wouldn't take Anrakyr just to get Eternals.

I do like the Zandhrek/Anrakyr+CCB combo, cheesy as it is. Logically, I shouldn't because I could get a barge lord for less than anrakyr, but MitM and the Eternal synergy with Zandy (can have a tougher shooty troop unit + Zandy can still be buffing other units) somehow makes it seem worth it.

Puscifer wrote:wrote a great list with 5 barges, 2 stalkers

Great list. I can't do it because I don't have stalkers, but the 5 barges with MSU warrior lanceteks seems to be a solid base that you can add most things to. More scarabs (but no spyders obviously), a foot list block of warriors, wraiths, all seem to fit really well. I'd say the key is that 5 barges is a world of pain for just about any army, not just hordes.

Interesting that the list doesn't seem to need named characters - or rather, adding named characters would probably take something away from it.

My plan is to build up to 5 barges. I'm at 3 rght now (one glued iin as an Anniand one as a CCB, the third can be swapped out for either).

My list just keeps getting longer. Right now my wish lst is:

Lychguard set (for Cryptek conversions)
DeathMark set
Stalker(s)
Barge(s)
Scythe(s)

Yeah, I just built my 3rd barge too. However, my wish list is now 2 Barges +Wraiths. Stalkers and spyders would be nice, but basically I'm in with the barges. Being able to play three anni barges is awesome (and this is in fact why I play Zandy/Anrakyr combos - no wraiths, spyders and stalkers, 1 GA, means I'm looking for ways to keep blocks of warriors/immortals from falling off the board.).

I'm getting some more scarabs in the meantime to act as tarpits until I get some wraiths. I'm thinking 5 barges, 2 wraith units then warriors to fill the gaps.

I keep thinking though, why can't we have a TL heavy Gauss cannon on the barges? Or, why can't Tesla be AP3!!

Sweet Zombie Jesus... I didn't know the FAQ had been done already.

I don't mind admitting I'm wrong there.

As tempting as that is, I'm not sure if I'd gain or lose anything from having bigger Warrior units with two Lanceteks in each.

I'd gain survivability but I'd lose the spread of shots between units. But again, having more shots per unit could force dmg through.

Thanks Markcron, my aim was to make it without SC first as I didn't feel like they added enough to justify the added points.

I'm going to work up to five Barges, but ATM I'm using the Overlords in the Arks and a squad of Immortals to fill the points up.

Sweet spot's probably two.

You don't want more because they'll waste shots. They all have to fire at the same target, after it's dead, welp, you're just bouncing the rubble.

Need more than just one chrono-lance pair, though, to avoid wasting your chrono reroll. With one, you can hit but then he makes his cover save. Can't reroll *his* rolls, chrono is wasted. So you'll need more shots to get through it and get into the penetration/results bit. A second lance will pretty much assure you'll have one roll to re-roll.

I would say the sweet spot is 4 lances and a crono. Im not sure why you think they will waste shots, if you do the maths I think you will find that they have less than 50% chance to destroy AV12.

I have used this court extensivly with and without a Ghost ark and found that most of the time the >50% increase in cost to add the Ark is not an efficient use of points. With less lance teks the ark is an even less efficient use of points.

If your not taking the full lance/chrono court I think your much better off with 5 warriors and 2 lance-teks.

@Psucifer : Are you having problems with the immortals running off the board?

Every time I try running large blocks of warriors (say 15+) or 10+ Immortals, they get CC'd by something and run off the board. I seem to spend most of the game trying to stop anything getting to them (and as I'm playing Nids quite often, that plan isn't working). I'm not finding the fun in that.

I don't care if 5 warriors and a lancetek get slaughtered, but something about a large block heading the wrong way really gets to me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
PS, yes they take the phaeron/orblord/veiltek etc with them.

MarkCron wrote:
I keep thinking though, why can't we have a TL heavy Gauss cannon on the barges? Or, why can't Tesla be AP3!!

Coz that woudl be a tad harsh (a potentially Heavy 12 Av13 tank with S7 AP3 for 90 points?!)

I did make an Apoc formation for them. Not had a chance to play test it yet though.

MarkCron wrote:@Psucifer : Are you having problems with the immortals running off the board?

Every time I try running large blocks of warriors (say 15+) or 10+ Immortals, they get CC'd by something and run off the board. I seem to spend most of the game trying to stop anything getting to them (and as I'm playing Nids quite often, that plan isn't working). I'm not finding the fun in that.

I don't care if 5 warriors and a lancetek get slaughtered, but something about a large block heading the wrong way really gets to me.

Tbh, my Immortals have been a total waste of points. They just don't do enough to justify 170 points. Might just make them up into Deathmarks. They seem to bring more death to the enemy.

I agree though, our combat plan seems to be less about the troops and more about tabling our opponents, which we can adequately do.

I was worried about survivability of the small warrior squads, but if they are there to just meatshield the Lanceteks, I might just stick with them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:

Sweet spot's probably two.

You don't want more because they'll waste shots. They all have to fire at the same target, after it's dead, welp, you're just bouncing the rubble.

Need more than just one chrono-lance pair, though, to avoid wasting your chrono reroll. With one, you can hit but then he makes his cover save. Can't reroll *his* rolls, chrono is wasted. So you'll need more shots to get through it and get into the penetration/results bit. A second lance will pretty much assure you'll have one roll to re-roll.

I would say the sweet spot is 4 lances and a crono. Im not sure why you think they will waste shots, if you do the maths I think you will find that they have less than 50% chance to destroy AV12.

I have used this court extensivly with and without a Ghost ark and found that most of the time the >50% increase in cost to add the Ark is not an efficient use of points. With less lance teks the ark is an even less efficient use of points.

If your not taking the full lance/chrono court I think your much better off with 5 warriors and 2 lance-teks.

The problem with the above unit is the expense and putting too many eggs in one basket.

If that transport pops an you lose your uber gank shot squad, you'll be less effective elsewhere.

With the Necrons it's time to act like its the 60's and spread the love. In this case, Lance Love.

Puscifer wrote:

MarkCron wrote:@Psucifer : Are you having problems with the immortals running off the board?

Every time I try running large blocks of warriors (say 15+) or 10+ Immortals, they get CC'd by something and run off the board. I seem to spend most of the game trying to stop anything getting to them (and as I'm playing Nids quite often, that plan isn't working). I'm not finding the fun in that.

I don't care if 5 warriors and a lancetek get slaughtered, but something about a large block heading the wrong way really gets to me.

Tbh, my Immortals have been a total waste of points. They just don't do enough to justify 170 points. Might just make them up into Deathmarks. They seem to bring more death to the enemy.

I agree though, our combat plan seems to be less about the troops and more about tabling our opponents, which we can adequately do.

I was worried about survivability of the small warrior squads, but if they are there to just meatshield the Lanceteks, I might just stick with them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:

Sweet spot's probably two.

You don't want more because they'll waste shots. They all have to fire at the same target, after it's dead, welp, you're just bouncing the rubble.

Need more than just one chrono-lance pair, though, to avoid wasting your chrono reroll. With one, you can hit but then he makes his cover save. Can't reroll *his* rolls, chrono is wasted. So you'll need more shots to get through it and get into the penetration/results bit. A second lance will pretty much assure you'll have one roll to re-roll.

I would say the sweet spot is 4 lances and a crono. Im not sure why you think they will waste shots, if you do the maths I think you will find that they have less than 50% chance to destroy AV12.

I have used this court extensivly with and without a Ghost ark and found that most of the time the >50% increase in cost to add the Ark is not an efficient use of points. With less lance teks the ark is an even less efficient use of points.

If your not taking the full lance/chrono court I think your much better off with 5 warriors and 2 lance-teks.

The problem with the above unit is the expense and putting too many eggs in one basket.

If that transport pops an you lose your uber gank shot squad, you'll be less effective elsewhere.

With the Necrons it's time to act like its the 60's and spread the love. In this case, Lance Love.

The tank popping will have little effect on the unit. This is part of the apeal of the ark- if your opponent kills it they will have acheived very little as the court keeps firing. I think they are better without the ark when the are 180 pts before the SP- not that expensive.
Spreading the lances out has its place but there are pros and cons, the spread out lances cannot benefit from the cronometron or Zandreks tank hunters as well. Spreading out your lances also requires multple 5man warrior squads which may or may not fit with your list.
Mini lance courts in arks without warriors just seem terribly inefficient.