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I tried the heavy gauss cannon on my stalkers, however it is hard as hell to get passed that AP1 and two shots multi-melta. The other thing is that if you are running your two solar pulses, they are going to be getting within 30 of your army, making the extra range pointless, and the ability to get two shots through is clutch. I used to believe in the heavy gauss until I tested them. gaining 30 points in a list that is fighting for 5 is amazing.

Solar Pulse is greater than Immotek, for one its a hell of a alot cheaper, two its only night fight for your opponent. Immo is always night fight which blows for a shoot list.

Yeah, I tried the HGC on the Stalkers. Much better to use the Heat Ray in conjunction with Pulsetek.

And as you've said, gaining 30 points is a great thing when the list is pretty tight.


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And TGF speaks the truth.

Plus...

A shooty list will always need TWO Pulsetek. No less.

Also... How many re-rolls do Chronometrons give you per phase?

I play tested zand and two pulses yesterday had was pretty happy.I played against a GK with 6 rhinos full of dudes and 3 psydreads just for reference.
zand's ability to take away USR was useless in this game but I could see it work in other lists with DCA ,SW,BA,or orks.

First thing was the lack of night fight for me allowed my shooting to blast away marines and rhinos without problems.

Second i used hit and run on my c'tan which helped me get out of tarpits then gave him Furious Charge to attack something else at I5 S8. These are important numbers since i can snipe t4 ICs and will strike first in most cases.

Another thing ive been thinking about is adding a res orb to my CCB lord.I run mine with scythe,2+,3++,MSS he is pretty solid but I like to play him very aggressive he tends to sweep something,get blown up then gets stuck in CC.Yesterday i rolled a 4 for his EL and thought if only i had an orb im just not sure if its worth the 30pts on a gamble.

I've noticed a lot of players using CCB Hyper Aggressively and it doesn't work.

Tbh, while I can see the CCB being quite a good tool, it's not great if it's not supported.

In Shooty armies, it's near useless.
In Mixed and CC armies it's good.
In low point games using Barge Spam, it's golden.

Personally, I don't like CCB. It takes a support HQ away from where it is needed most - with the rank and file.

Puscifer wrote:I've noticed a lot of players using CCB Hyper Aggressively and it doesn't work.

What do you mean it didn't work? It died too fast? It didn't open up vehicles? Imho, if a CCB lives until T3 it either being used wrong or the opponent doesn't prioritise properly. Like other units, it has a purpose and if you use it for that purpose it's gold, otherwise it is not.

Puscifer wrote:Tbh, while I can see the CCB being quite a good tool, it's not great if it's not supported.

Depends on your purpose. If the role of the CCB in the army is to be a distraction and stop mech early in the game, well it doesn't need support. Anything else, it does. If you want it around in T4, probably the wrong unit.

Puscifer wrote:In Shooty armies, it's near useless.
In Mixed and CC armies it's good.
In low point games using Barge Spam, it's golden.

Personally, I don't like CCB. It takes a support HQ away from where it is needed most - with the rank and file.

I don't entirely agree. In shooty armies it may not be appropriate if there is a big block of gauss which needs a phaeron. In which case, take 2 hq and use one anyway! . Any shooty armies with scarabs, stalkers or wraiths can benefit from a CCB to distract while you get in range.

It didn't work because the player controlling it just didn't use it right. They did sweep over units, they then got out, charged a vehicle, destroyed it and then got eaten by the squad inside. A 200 point unit that earnt 50 or so points back.

I wouldn't call that great. I've seen that happen a lot.

It sounds like a suicide unit and plays like one from what I've seen.

MarkCron wrote:What do you mean it didn't work? It died too fast? It didn't open up vehicles? Imho, if a CCB lives until T3 it either being used wrong or the opponent doesn't prioritise properly. Like other units, it has a purpose and if you use it for that purpose it's gold, otherwise it is not.

Well, that's not necessarily true. You could be fighting defensively. A standard opening gambit I use is to move my first Scarab unit up into area cover somewhere in the middle of the table. That establishes a 24" radius "danger zone", and forces the opponent to searchlight it and at least make it go to ground. With a 2+ cover save and Spyders linked with a conga-line (Scarabs still at least 50% in cover) the only way to winkle it out is to move up flamers or CC infantry. This takes time. Meanwhile I'm pot-shotting the searchlight rhinos, spawning more scarabs, and letting the lightning do it's thing. My CCB is always back - where the opponent either can't see it at all or can't dependably spotlight it. It's not uncommon for my CCB to make its first attack on turn three, when we "loose the hounds".

Basically because we have high-survivability Scarabs and night-fight range management, we can sacrifice a fairly cheap, fairly dangerous unit to force the opponent to grind for a bit.

If he blows by with a bunch of transports? Well, then he can't fire or spotlight ('cause there's MORE scarabs back there, he daren't slow down) and he's moving into easy CCB sweep range and Spyder charge range, and yeah, it'll turn into a furball.

Taking Randalls point a step further there are other situations where a CCB won't be targeted simply because it isn't the biggest threat. The list I use at 1850 has 15 Wraiths (3x 5), 2 CC Barges and 3 Doom Scythes. Turn 1 (in most cases) I go full throttle with everything. Now let your opponent decide what to aim at.

And never disembark from a CC Barge unless there is a damn good reason to.

Puscifer wrote:It didn't work because the player controlling it just didn't use it right. They did sweep over units, they then got out, charged a vehicle, destroyed it and then got eaten by the squad inside. A 200 point unit that earnt 50 or so points back.

I wouldn't call that great. I've seen that happen a lot.

It sounds like a suicide unit and plays like one from what I've seen.

Agreed. Thing is, that isn't a fault of a hyper aggressive strategy or the CCB - that's just bad tactics. It's the same thing as running scarabs up the board without cover and outrunning your supporting spyders.

Randall Turner wrote:

MarkCron wrote:What do you mean it didn't work? It died too fast? It didn't open up vehicles? Imho, if a CCB lives until T3 it either being used wrong or the opponent doesn't prioritise properly. Like other units, it has a purpose and if you use it for that purpose it's gold, otherwise it is not.

Well, that's not necessarily true. You could be fighting defensively. A standard opening gambit I use is to move my first Scarab unit up into area cover somewhere in the middle of the table. That establishes a 24" radius "danger zone", and forces the opponent to searchlight it and at least make it go to ground. With a 2+ cover save and Spyders linked with a conga-line (Scarabs still at least 50% in cover) the only way to winkle it out is to move up flamers or CC infantry. This takes time. Meanwhile I'm pot-shotting the searchlight rhinos, spawning more scarabs, and letting the lightning do it's thing. My CCB is always back - where the opponent either can't see it at all or can't dependably spotlight it. It's not uncommon for my CCB to make its first attack on turn three, when we "loose the hounds".

Basically because we have high-survivability Scarabs and night-fight range management, we can sacrifice a fairly cheap, fairly dangerous unit to force the opponent to grind for a bit.

If he blows by with a bunch of transports? Well, then he can't fire or spotlight ('cause there's MORE scarabs back there, he daren't slow down) and he's moving into easy CCB sweep range and Spyder charge range, and yeah, it'll turn into a furball.

Interesting, i've never considered doing that, because for me the idea of the CCB is to open up the vehicles and kill their mobility straight up. In your description, why is the investment of 195 points (I'm assuming you run the overlord light, with only scythe and MSS) the best use of those 195 points? It seems to me that by the time you get to turn 3 you've lost 2 turns sweeping vehicles, plus the distraction effect. If there is a furball T3, a couple of extra spyders, anni barges or even another 10 immortals would be more helpful?

Lukus83 wrote:Taking Randalls point a step further there are other situations where a CCB won't be targeted simply because it isn't the biggest threat. The list I use at 1850 has 15 Wraiths (3x 5), 2 CC Barges and 3 Doom Scythes. Turn 1 (in most cases) I go full throttle with everything. Now let your opponent decide what to aim at.

Fair point. My comment was a bit generalistic and if you overload with threats (i.e. wraiths) the opp should prioritise those. In that case, the opp will have a problem with cans being opened in the movement phase and wraith snacking on the tasty contents. Do you run 2 CCB?

Lukus83 wrote:And never disembark from a CC Barge unless there is a damn good reason to.

Amen. I'm going to put that comment into my signature if its ok with you.

MarkCron wrote:Interesting, i've never considered doing that, because for me the idea of the CCB is to open up the vehicles and kill their mobility straight up. In your description, why is the investment of 195 points (I'm assuming you run the overlord light, with only scythe and MSS) the best use of those 195 points? It seems to me that by the time you get to turn 3 you've lost 2 turns sweeping vehicles, plus the distraction effect. If there is a furball T3, a couple of extra spyders, anni barges or even another 10 immortals would be more helpful?

Well, obviously if I could buy more Spyders or AB's I would, lol. I think we can assume all HS slots are full on just about all Necron lists.

Aside from AB's I don't know of anything more cost-effective in the Necron codex than a CCB. Well, maybe Spyders and Wraiths and Scarabs, all full up, thank you very much. Next obvious thing is to invest in a CCB.

But to answer the question you're not asking and maybe should be - the reason I'm not in any rush to go out and whoop ass w/my CCB is that if I do, he dies. I don't want him to die, and my list philosophy isn't "Kawabungaaaa!", so I don't move him offensively early unless I feel he'll be targeted and focus-fired on anyway. Don't have to avoid all fire. Just focus-fire from his core fire-support. <shrug>


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Lukus83 wrote:And never disembark from a CC Barge unless there is a damn good reason to.

Add, and never slow down in a CCB until they shoot you out of the cab.

The list I use at 1850 has 15 Wraiths (3x 5), 2 CC Barges and 3 Doom Scythes.

Wraiths are amazing but without a doubt the most points efficient unit in the codex is the Spyder. 50 points for 3 T6 wounds that create a 15 point killing machine every turn for free. Spyders basically don't cost anything at all. The fact that they're monstrous creatures and en masse can be a huge assault deterrent against your objective holders is just a bonus.

A single Doom Scythe already effects the enemy deployment (he won't dare to build a parking lot or castle too tight) and gives you an instant death threat against T5. The Doom Scythe gives something invaluable to the army but it's not a unit to be spammed both because of its fragility and prohibitive points cost but most importantly the strong competition for the same slots. I'm happy to hear if your setup is working for you, but the way I run the Necrons is 2x5 Wraiths, a unit of 6 Scarabs, 2x3 Spyders and 1 Doom Scythe. A massive unit of Scarabs capable of multi-charging anything turn 2 gives the army much more than a single extra unit of Wraiths. Similarly, the Spyders are vastly more resilient and points efficient than the Doom Scythes. It's an extremely strong AAC setup.

I support those guys with Imotekh and a CCB scythe boss, or just two CCBs if named characters aren't allowed in the tournament in question. Troops is 4x5 Warriors in Night Scythes, or 3x5 in Night Scythes and a unit of 10 footslogging Immortals that group up with the Spyders towards the middle of the table. With Imotekh the only Cryptek needed is the re-roll guy.

You know, we're all running slight variants of the same army, yours is very close to mine. I go one more Scarab, one less Wraith (2 each 6xScarab, 1 each 6xWraith) and the AB for the DS (2 each 3xSpyder, 1 each AB) with Imotekh and a CCB plus typical troop/cryptek mix. The thing is I cannot keep a DoomScythe alive, and I made a conversion for it and everything, darn it.

Edit: I find the second Scarab unit is very useful, and one Wraith sweeping around the side is enough to keep him nervous. I like to threaten an initiative grab and Scarab alpha-strike, it needs two units to be credible.

Edit2: keep explaining myself. Basic "rule of 3's" on the scarabs, start out with 6 in each unit so I've got two auto-kills against a stationary vehicle or one auto-kill against a combat speed vehicle. (3 scarabs = 15 attacks = 7.5 AV loss, 7.5 AV pen = dead land raider.) If the opponent wins initiative, and then sets up right on the 12" line with at least two vehicles close enough together to multiassault with a scarab unit, you can alpha-strike them. If you seize, you can spawn 3 more scarabs in front of the original 6 putting you about 3" closer. Then all you have to roll for run distance is a 4+ . So, with two units you have a 75% chance one of them gets there. (more or less, a few more topological variables, really need him to clump on his startline.) And basically if I'm taking all those Spyders I'd like a backup Scarab unit to spawn into.

What keeps the scarabs alive versus enemy Wraiths? Nothing? If enemy wraiths can remove all the scarabs, then what's left to deal with enemy armor? Or are you planning on gaussing them to death? I'm not being judgmental here, just curious.

What keeps the scarabs alive versus enemy Wraiths? Nothing? If enemy wraiths can remove all the scarabs, then what's left to deal with enemy armor? Or are you planning on gaussing them to death? I'm not being judgmental here, just curious.

Noone has any idea what you're talking about of course. If an army has a death ray, ten Wraiths, six monstrous creatures, five twin-linked tesla destructors, a ton of small gauss fire, lightning strikes from Imotekh and a scythe CCB, why are we talking about the hypothetical scenario where the opponent destroys 18 bases of Scarabs on turn two? If they die, assuming you didn't suicide them, the enemy concentrated firepower on them that would've otherwise went elsewhere and caused significant damage. You use the rest of the army to table the opponent, and in no way were the Scarabs a requisite to a massacre victory, simply very points efficient to have.

DarthDiggler wrote:What keeps the scarabs alive versus enemy Wraiths? Nothing? If enemy wraiths can remove all the scarabs, then what's left to deal with enemy armor? Or are you planning on gaussing them to death? I'm not being judgmental here, just curious.

What usually keeps them alive against enemy Wraiths is the fact that hardly anyone runs Necrons. BUT EVEN IF THEY DID, what armor you talkin' bout willis? And why can't MY wraiths be stomping HIS scarabs? lol actually, now i'm tempted to go work up a blue-on-blue sheet but I'm optimized for GK razorspam, I'm probably screwed.

ps - hey Therion - he's right though, Wraiths are virtually perfect Scarab stompers, aren't they.

Randall Turner wrote:

MarkCron wrote:Interesting, i've never considered doing that, because for me the idea of the CCB is to open up the vehicles and kill their mobility straight up. In your description, why is the investment of 195 points (I'm assuming you run the overlord light, with only scythe and MSS) the best use of those 195 points? It seems to me that by the time you get to turn 3 you've lost 2 turns sweeping vehicles, plus the distraction effect. If there is a furball T3, a couple of extra spyders, anni barges or even another 10 immortals would be more helpful?

Well, obviously if I could buy more Spyders or AB's I would, lol. I think we can assume all HS slots are full on just about all Necron lists.

Aside from AB's I don't know of anything more cost-effective in the Necron codex than a CCB. Well, maybe Spyders and Wraiths and Scarabs, all full up, thank you very much. Next obvious thing is to invest in a CCB.

You filled ALL your HS and FA slots, still have troops and have points left over for a CCB? Wow, can I see your list? Agree about the cost effectiveness of the CCB, my concern is that if they aren't used properly they are a waste of points. Always good to hear different viewpoints though.

Randall Turner wrote:But to answer the question you're not asking and maybe should be - the reason I'm not in any rush to go out and whoop ass w/my CCB is that if I do, he dies. I don't want him to die, and my list philosophy isn't "Kawabungaaaa!", so I don't move him offensively early unless I feel he'll be targeted and focus-fired on anyway. Don't have to avoid all fire. Just focus-fire from his core fire-support. <shrug>

I've seen this comment a lot. It's interesting that moving the CCB forward is associated with "kawabungaa!" or a hyper aggressive strategy. Take your example. If you moved the CCB up to the centreline of the board, say 12" to the side of the scarabs you would effectively have an AT threat window of 24" over 3/4 of the length of the board. Also, you have a 12" window where you can sweep out and then come back to the centreline. Sort of like a super jump infantry effect. If you were the opp where would you go? I'd go for the open flank, hitting the scarabs as I go. Herding the Opp into a known spot is always good!

I think part of the value of the CCB is the potential threat - the more of that in the opp area, the better. For clarity, I don't throw my CCB's into the enemy area without support of some sort but I do move them up past the centreline really quickly to constrain the opp moves. I don't think that is either hyper aggressive or Kawabunga, but my CCB still dies because of threat priority (as Lukas wrote, many targets, sort of an MTO effect). As I don't have wraiths, I'm using the CCB as a bit of a firesoak as well.

Randall Turner wrote:

Lukus83 wrote:And never disembark from a CC Barge unless there is a damn good reason to.

Add, and never slow down in a CCB until they shoot you out of the cab.

lols!! Nobody slows down in a CCB. Do they?

@Therion - I'm researching what to spend my hard earned on next and Spyders are coming up really high. Wraiths are really expensive in Oz, and spyders fit in better with the scarabs I have. Course, I'll probably end up buying both and the missus won't talk to me for a month. Oh well, more time to paint and play!!

Randall Turner wrote:

DarthDiggler wrote:What keeps the scarabs alive versus enemy Wraiths? Nothing? If enemy wraiths can remove all the scarabs, then what's left to deal with enemy armor? Or are you planning on gaussing them to death? I'm not being judgmental here, just curious.

What usually keeps them alive against enemy Wraiths is the fact that hardly anyone runs Necrons. BUT EVEN IF THEY DID, what armor you talkin' bout willis? And why can't MY wraiths be stomping HIS scarabs? lol actually, now i'm tempted to go work up a blue-on-blue sheet but I'm optimized for GK razorspam, I'm probably screwed.

ps - hey Therion - he's right though, Wraiths are virtually perfect Scarab stompers, aren't they.

I can't believe I need to explain but I'll do it anyway so that there's no misunderstandings. We've got pretty much two thousand points of troops out there on both sides and if you run your single unit of Scarabs into fifteen Wraiths you've got noone to blame but yourself. The questions you need to ask are the following: You start with agreeing as fact that Scarabs are incredibly useful in the current tournament meta and one of the best units in the codex. Now: Can Scarabs be useful against Necrons? Yes. Can they earn their points back and more? Yes. Can Necrons counter (enemy) Scarabs? Yes. Does spending 45-90 points on a base unit of Scarabs (that get boosted up in size for free) gimp my army against enemy Necrons in a way that makes a 20-0 victory impossible? No.

After those answers it's clear that I don't need to be concerned during the army construction phase. We take our vulnerabilities into consideration turn by turn during the game when we prioritise our own targets.

MarkCron wrote:You filled ALL your HS and FA slots, still have troops and have points left over for a CCB? Wow, can I see your list?

Mark, are you serious? Can you show me any Necron list that doesn't have it's HS and FA slots filled up AND include a CCB? I mean, one single list?

You do realize that Therion's list has exactly the same, only with a DS for my AB (+85 pts) and a Wraith unit for my Scarabs (+135pts). But you see mine as having point problems?

Dude, seriously. If you're not filling up EVERY SINGLE ONE of your FA and HS slots, you're doing it wrong.


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Therion wrote:I can't believe I need to explain but I'll do it anyway so that there's no misunderstandings.

Nononono. We're screwed. You and I aren't fighting each other, and you and I aren't the blue-on-blue I'm talking about.

You and I both chose to field an Imotekh list. That's because he's very, very effective against mass AV11 etc. vehicles. But when we bump into another Necron list, the problem won't be the damn Scarabs, my friend - it'll be that we spent 220 pts on a non-combat unit AND we'll be going up against an opponent with Solar Pulses to neutralize our lightning.

I really do think we (you and I) would be screwed! But I also would have to sit down and do a serious analysis, I don't think of other Necrons as likely opponents.

Randall Turner wrote:

MarkCron wrote:You filled ALL your HS and FA slots, still have troops and have points left over for a CCB? Wow, can I see your list?

Mark, are you serious? Can you show me any Necron list that doesn't have it's HS and FA slots filled up AND include a CCB? I mean, one single list?

You do realize that Therion's list has exactly the same, only with a DS for my AB (+85 pts) and a Wraith unit for my Scarabs (+135pts). But you see mine as having point problems?

Dude, seriously. If you're not filling up EVERY SINGLE ONE of your FA and HS slots, you're doing it wrong.

Randall, I WAS serious. I think that you're forgetting that a lot of people start with a battleforce and then add stuff as they go so they don't have the models to field wraiths plus spyders plus scarabs plus AB plus CCB. If you don't believe me, check out a lot of the lists that new necron players are posting. I CAN'T fill all my slots - don't have enough models. So, I'm CLEARLY doing it wrong - but that doesn't mean that I have an excuse to use the CCB ineffectively.

Also, at lower point games, say 1000 or 1500, many people are choosing CCB and not getting the benefit out of it. The principle that you should use every unit, INCLUDING the CCB to get the most benefit doesn't only apply at 2000pt games.

I really do think we (you and I) would be screwed!

Imotekh brings intangibles that the dual CCB setup with pulseteks doesn't. 4+ to seize (the enemy will never be able to be sure if he's going to start the game or not), points savings on Crypteks, the Phaeron ability, and the night fight plus lightning strikes cannot be underestimated, even against Necrons.

I also need to add that I build my lists from a GT approach. I only play single matches against my friends at my home when we playtest tournament lists against eachother. Otherwise every game will be at a four to six game tournament where enemy lists will vary enormously and my list reflects a counter to the current trends and metagame. Even explaining that, I don't need to be concerned of enemy army lists that go against the current trends, because the chances of ever meeting one of those is extremely slim because of tournament swiss system match making. The only chance of playing against strange army lists that are based on no logic or plan is during the first round of the tournament because afterwards the winners play against other winners. You'll know what you'll play against so if you bring a knife to a gunfight you've got noone else to blame but yourself, and when you know you'll play against mech IG, Coteaz GK and SW, you'll bring Imotekh and a single CCB boss. Before Necrons, I played SW, BA and GK myself.

MarkCron wrote:Randall, I WAS serious. I think that you're forgetting that a lot of people start with a battleforce and then add stuff as they go so they don't have the models to field wraiths plus spyders plus scarabs plus AB plus CCB.

Oh, okay, sorry about that then. No stress.

Basically, Mark, I'm making every economization I can in my list, which is why I went 2xScarab 1xWraith for the Fast Attack slot - Wraiths are expensive. Also why I went away from a full-on nine Spyder setup, it was cheaper points-wise to switch to an AB. (Plus the AB gives me some chance for cover, it's really not a palatable target. AV13 for 90pts.)

I really should drop the last expensive Wraith unit altogether. I should save the points and go full-on Scarab Farm, but I have six beautiful old lead Wraith miniatures and damned if I'm not going to play them.

Thanks for the insite.

Thanks for the insite. Your answer Therion is "I will lose the mirror matchup because I've gone overboard against av 11 marines". I understand.

Comments like this don't help, please endeavour to comport yourself in a better manner when posting on Dakka please.
Thanks
Reds8n

Therion wrote:

I really do think we (you and I) would be screwed!

Imotekh brings intangibles that the dual CCB setup with pulseteks doesn't. 4+ to seize (the enemy will never be able to be sure if he's going to start the game or not), points savings on Crypteks, the Phaeron ability, and the night fight plus lightning strikes cannot be underestimated, even against Necrons.

I also need to add that I build my lists from a GT approach. I only play single matches against my friends at my home when we playtest tournament lists against eachother. Otherwise every game will be at a four to six game tournament where enemy lists will vary enormously and my list reflects a counter to the current trends and metagame. Even explaining that, I don't need to be concerned of enemy army lists that go against the current trends, because the chances of ever meeting one of those is extremely slim because of tournament swiss system match making. The only chance of playing against strange army lists that are based on no logic or plan is during the first round of the tournament because afterwards the winners play against other winners. You'll know what you'll play against so if you bring a knife to a gunfight you've got noone else to blame but yourself, and when you know you'll play against mech IG, Coteaz GK and SW, you'll bring Imotekh and a single CCB boss. Before Necrons, I played SW, BA and GK myself.

Hmm. There's a couple Necron builds we could run into. Either one of the CC variants (Scarab or Wraith) would give us trouble, as would a balanced list like Alex Fennell plays. But moreso the Wraithwing CC variant - there wouldn't be enough time for our lightning to have effect, they'd be right on top of us turn 2 and they'd have spent those extra points on Wraiths and CCB's. Three Wraith units and two CCB's works just as well on us as Space Marines.

It'd be a lot like spotting an opponent a pawn in a chess game. Could you still win? Sure. Tough, though.


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Hey, Guys! Be nice! We're not measuring dicks here, don't get all grumpy, we're just chatting.

Randall Turner wrote:
I really should drop the last expensive Wraith unit altogether. I should save the points and go full-on Scarab Farm, but I have six beautiful old lead Wraith miniatures and damned if I'm not going to play them.

Why drop the wraiths? During the long (and exhausting !! so many combos...so little dollars ) investigations as to what to buy next, even though money is telling me to buy spyders, I want to buy a unit of wraiths. They just seem to bulk up any army build I can think of.

What's with the dislike for zandy people's? For 5 more points then an equivalent wargear overlord, you get the ability to give a unit a bunch of USR's, and take those same USR's from an enemy unit. And also the forgotten ability that giving any unit that has deep strike essentially the same rule as deathmarks! Put him with 10 tesla immortals to make use the res orb, and in wraithwing lists he seems invaluable! Give them furious charge for STR 7, take away counter attack or and whatnot and watch them run through squads, same for lychguard! Makes sword and board even better! And of course tank hunters to HD or destructeks. As far as I can tell he's great if you don't want to run a second a CCB, his synergy could prove invaluable (for example, giving a unit CA because you know you will be assaulted, taking away FC from BA or bezerkers, and they just become average.

Also what are people's opinions on the destroyer lord? I've been placing him with wraiths, then when it comes to assaulting, separating him from the unit and taking on something by himself. PE is magic on him, he can easily hold his own against 90% of squads that don't have a PF IC in it.

I have only used Zandy once and, although he didn't pay his cost on his own, the support he lends the army overall is what enticed me. At T5 with a 2/3/4 save he could also be used to tarpit enemiy units in a pinch.

I am one of thsoe players who can't afford (models or money wise) to fill up all my FA and HS slots, especially in lower point games. Mymust-tak units right now tend to a be 2 Anni Barges (LOVE them), at least 1 scarabs unit (no less than 6 bases IMO) and a squad of 3 Heavy Destroyers for longer range tank and TEQ sniping.

I am experimenting with the HQ choice. Anrakyr was fun as i managed to shoto a libby with the multimelta from his own land raider, but if he gets stuck in combat he is missing MSS and SW which means he goes down pretty quick. In smaller games i found Imhotekhs lighting to be too unreliable, but in an Apoc game i would definately take him.

My current quandry is if i shoudl take an CCB O-Lord (weave, scythe, MSS) or Anrakyr in a CCB to go alogn with Zandy in a 1500 point game. The O-Lord is better when un-barged. And Anraky has his Mind in the Machine power which is cool. The O-Lord option is 35 points cheaper.

Tbh, I have my HS and Eites filled up, but that's because of the slight Tremorcron variant I'm testing at the moment.

I'll post the list up later.

One thing I will add, is that I'm steering away from Tremorcrons altogether and going all shooty.

I'm also thinking of dropping Doomsday and taking two Ghost Arks to use as Gunboats for three man Royal Court: 2 Destruction (one with Pulse) and a Chronotek for those important re-rolls on the damage chart if needed. It makes Ghost Arks worth taking IMO.

I am all shooty as well (mainly as i can't afford to buy Wraiths and Flayed Ones suck) with the exceptions on Scarabs and (trialling) a CCB.