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Rayvon wrote:Quite inetresting seeing how wound up people can get about rules they dont really know anything about yet.
We cannot really make anything but assumptions from what little we have been told.
If your gonna report rumors and only put up partial information that shows massive buffs to everyone but a few armies, you're gonna get flak. People are very defensive of their armies because they spend a lot of money on them.
very well put point
on this eldar Divination thing people keep drumming on about, Eldar are the masters of such powers... tis why they have guide, fortune, doom, eldrads re-deploy etc.
i cant see these new powers having anything like this, not that i wouldnt love to have fortune on my TH/SS termies or guide on my Ravenwing attack sqauds.
Now i do agree that eldar should have more acess to the other ones and as someone pointed out maybe chaos will be getting god specific ones too
You'll see the Demos soon being thrown at the GW stores and decide how badly 6th Ed will be.
Adam's Motto: Paint, Create, Play, but above all, have fun. -and for something silly below-
"We are the Ultramodrines, And We Shall Fear No Trolls. bear this USR with pride".
Also, how does one apply to be a member of the Ultramodrines? Are harsh trials involved, ones that would test my faith as a wargamer and resolve as a geek?
You must recite every rule of Dakka Dakka. BACKWARDS.
Not going to lie, that telepathy spell makes me all excited to play Horde armies. Nothing says hilarity like 30 Orks hitting themselves.
warboss wrote: Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be.
Let's be real, guys. Eldar aren't going to be nerfed by the introduction of new psychic abilities. Their psychic (and psychic defense) wargear is already the best in the game. If anything, the increased prevalence of psykers will be a buff to Eldar, as the Eldar's Runes of Warding will be able to reap an even more fearsome toll. If, as I'm hearing, the Perils of the Warp will be beefed up, that's just the icing on the cake for Eldar psykers.
Now, I'm not saying Eldrad will be the new Teclis or anything, but it seems pretty clear that Eldar stand to gain from psychic powers becoming more powerful and prevalent. The strong Eldar psychic defenses means that opposing psykers-- now more common-- will have a more difficult time using their powers, and the Eldar themselves, who nearly always field Farseers, will gain access to new and potent abilities themselves. So not only will the meta shift in a way that favors Eldar, because more opponents will take units vulnerable to Eldar psychic defenses, but the rules shifts themselves will increase the power of Eldar psykers.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/06/21 00:33:07
Testify wrote:Sources are sources because of their closeness to information, not for their typing reliability don't hang up on it too much.
Special trumps general anyway. Even if the core rulebook said Tesla added an additional hit on a 6, the 'cron codex still says to add 2, so you do.
.
Um, no. There will be Codex FAQs released en masse with the BYB. If they decide to change the Tesla rule into a universal effect your FAQ will say something like, "Pg. XTesla: Replace this wording with the wording from page Y of the Warhammer 40,000 Rulebook"
I would actually not be surprised if that happens, since I saw a rumour days ago that suggested Necron players would lament having equipped their Immortals with tesla. It didn't make sense to me until this new tidbit came out today. I forget where I read it -- it may have been some pathetically grungy 40K blog I was linked to from another board.
Fetterkey wrote:Let's be real, guys. Eldar aren't going to be nerfed by the introduction of new psychic abilities. Their psychic (and psychic defense) wargear is already the best in the game. If anything, the increased prevalence of psykers will be a buff to Eldar, as the Eldar's Runes of Warding will be able to reap an even more fearsome toll. If, as I'm hearing, the Perils of the Warp will be beefed up, that's just the icing on the cake for Eldar psykers.
Now, I'm not saying Eldrad will be the new Teclis or anything, but it seems pretty clear that Eldar stand to gain from psychic powers becoming more powerful and prevalent. The strong Eldar psychic defenses means that opposing psykers-- now more common-- will have a more difficult time using their powers, and the Eldar themselves, who nearly always field Farseers, will gain access to new and potent abilities themselves. So not only will the meta shift in a way that favors Eldar, because more opponents will take units vulnerable to Eldar psychic defenses, but the rules shifts themselves will increase the power of Eldar psykers.
This is pretty much my first thought. While that Telekinesis power seems way too powerful, I don't think anyone would dare attempt it on 3d6 when Runes of Warding are on the table.
My Necrons, however, might be screwed here if they don't get any psychic defense.
Also: So does the Gamer's Edition come with the templates and the servo-skull tape measure? Or is it just the dice, holders and satchel? I'm not clear.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/06/21 00:45:10
Fetterkey wrote:Let's be real, guys. Eldar aren't going to be nerfed by the introduction of new psychic abilities. Their psychic (and psychic defense) wargear is already the best in the game. If anything, the increased prevalence of psykers will be a buff to Eldar, as the Eldar's Runes of Warding will be able to reap an even more fearsome toll. If, as I'm hearing, the Perils of the Warp will be beefed up, that's just the icing on the cake for Eldar psykers.
Now, I'm not saying Eldrad will be the new Teclis or anything, but it seems pretty clear that Eldar stand to gain from psychic powers becoming more powerful and prevalent. The strong Eldar psychic defenses means that opposing psykers-- now more common-- will have a more difficult time using their powers, and the Eldar themselves, who nearly always field Farseers, will gain access to new and potent abilities themselves. So not only will the meta shift in a way that favors Eldar, because more opponents will take units vulnerable to Eldar psychic defenses, but the rules shifts themselves will increase the power of Eldar psykers.
This is pretty much my first thought. While that Telekinesis power seems way too powerful, I don't think anyone would dare attempt it on 3d6 when Runes of Warding are on the table.
My Necrons, however, might be screwed here if they don't get any psychic defense.
yeah they do.. just very limited, its on a tomb spider isnt it? and if the rumour is true everyone gets a 6+ save vs psy powers.. not much but its something lol
I liked the minor powers from 3rd, i kinda expected them to be in the 4th rulebook but they were not (evidently) and im glad a kind of psychic phase has returned, as i like magic in fantasy aswell (i like magic.. not the all the spells... imagine if Jaws affected whole units and you had I2... damn dwarfs lol)
- sharpshooters can choose what target they hit on a 6 (necron eliminators)
Huh? Necron Eliminators? Is that supposed to mean Destroyers, perhaps?
- tesla weapons get an additional hit when throwing a 6 on the to-hit throws
I hope this is a typo, because AP- Tesla doesn't need to get Nerf'd.
- apparently you can bodyguard all special characters (non independent ones on a +4)
NO! Oh, for the love of the Emperor, NOOooo! This could potentially give already-imbalanced characters like Mephiston ablative wounds or something akin to a 4++!
EDIT: Also, if you can defensive fire at BS 1, then Vulkan lists will potentially become the greatest objective-holders that I have ever heard of. TL Flamers getting to defensive fire when charged? Ouch.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/06/21 01:02:20
kenzosan wrote:
Oh I agree. I'm constantly bitching at my friends about how my elite melee fighters cant take out a standard marine squad. I ran theory on it and it was just so stupid.
Anyone that doesn't know: on the charge, Howling Banshees and Striking Scorpions come out with 1-2 wounds left after wiping out a 10 man tac squad. The point difference is too great and that's an elite vs a troop. If you contest this, I'd love to hear arguments about how I'm wrong because I want to field either of those units.
I would be happy to show how this is wrong.
Banshees have a pistol and a power weapon and strike at I5. That means 3 attacks on the charge. A Tac Marine does not have a CCW, except for the Sergeant, and they have rapid fire weapons plus a heavy weapon, so more than likely they will fail to get the charge against a Fleet unit with pistols and have 1 attack per marine, with the Sergeant at 3 attacks for CC+Pistol and 2 base.
e.g. without an Exarch, without Leadership tests that the Tac Marines would be taking every turn, and without a charge bonus, Banshees would win by 7 models in CC against Tac Marines. YMMV with an Exarch or with a Power Weapon on the Serg, but suffice to say, if you're looking for something to complain about in C:SM, it probably shouldn't be Tactical Marines, which are nearly universally regarded as being nothing special.
That being said, I'm totally on board with this rumored psychic chart being complete bs for Xenos. I'm planning on playing Orks, and I can't say I like the idea of having our Psyker, already one of the worst and most unreliable in the game (with NO psychic defense!) being further cemented into the bottom of the dustbin.
Fang, son of Great Fang, the traitor we seek, The laws of the brethren say this: That only the king sees the crown of the gods, And he, the usurper, must die.
Mother earth is pregnant for the third time, for y'all have knocked her up. I have tasted the maggots in the mind of the universe, but I was not offended. For I knew I had to rise above it all, or drown in my own gak.
Huh. I just noticed that the section about Hull Points seems to have completely left out a very conspicuous, pyramid-shaped 200-point vehicle. Strange.
- sharpshooters can choose what target they hit on a 6 (necron eliminators)
Huh? Necron Eliminators? Is that supposed to mean Destroyers, perhaps?
- tesla weapons get an additional hit when throwing a 6 on the to-hit throws
I hope this is a typo, because AP- Tesla doesn't need to get Nerf'd.
- apparently you can bodyguard all special characters (non independent ones on a +4)
NO! Oh, for the love of the Emperor, NOOooo! This could potentially give already-imbalanced characters like Mephiston ablative wounds or something akin to a 4++!
EDIT: Also, if you can defensive fire at BS 1, then Vulkan lists will potentially become the greatest objective-holders that I have ever heard of. TL Flamers getting to defensive fire when charged? Ouch.
Mephiston isn't an independent character and can't join a squad, so no bodyguards. You can't use a template weapon, (flamer or round) in defensive fire.
....and lo!.....The Age of Sigmar came to an end when Saint Veetock and his hamster legions smote the false Sigmar and destroyed the bubbleverse and lead the true believers back to the Old World.
kenzosan wrote:
Oh I agree. I'm constantly bitching at my friends about how my elite melee fighters cant take out a standard marine squad. I ran theory on it and it was just so stupid.
Anyone that doesn't know: on the charge, Howling Banshees and Striking Scorpions come out with 1-2 wounds left after wiping out a 10 man tac squad. The point difference is too great and that's an elite vs a troop. If you contest this, I'd love to hear arguments about how I'm wrong because I want to field either of those units.
I would be happy to show how this is wrong.
Banshees have a pistol and a power weapon and strike at I5. That means 3 attacks on the charge. A Tac Marine does not have a CCW, except for the Sergeant, and they have rapid fire weapons plus a heavy weapon, so more than likely they will fail to get the charge against a Fleet unit with pistols and have 1 attack per marine, with the Sergeant at 3 attacks for CC+Pistol and 2 base.
e.g. without an Exarch, without Leadership tests that the Tac Marines would be taking every turn, and without a charge bonus, Banshees would win by 7 models in CC against Tac Marines. YMMV with an Exarch or with a Power Weapon on the Serg, but suffice to say, if you're looking for something to complain about in C:SM, it probably shouldn't be Tactical Marines, which are nearly universally regarded as being nothing special.
That being said, I'm totally on board with this rumored psychic chart being complete bs for Xenos. I'm planning on playing Orks, and I can't say I like the idea of having our Psyker, already one of the worst and most unreliable in the game (with NO psychic defense!) being further cemented into the bottom of the dustbin.
Must have been assault marines then I did the math on. Cuz I remember there being 2 attacks per marine when I did the math. Blood angels were the codex I was using so the point of a troop being that good against an elite is still valid.
currently run
my eldar at 2000 pts chaos space marine at 3000+ pts working on dark eldar aiming for 2k Had a 1k Tau and a 2k Ork and 3k BA.
dajobe wrote:those cards scare me so much...
I love fantasy, but I also want a game that doesnt have complete magic domination
If the psychic phase (if there really is one now) is anything like the magic phase, the other army should have a chance to dispel/cancel them...how is that complete domination?
Space Marines, Orks, Imperial Guard, Chaos, Tau, Necrons, Germans (LW), Protectorate of Menoth
dajobe wrote:those cards scare me so much...
I love fantasy, but I also want a game that doesnt have complete magic domination
If the psychic phase (if there really is one now) is anything like the magic phase, the other army should have a chance to dispel/cancel them...how is that complete domination?
I think he means that games of WFB can be won or lost depending or whether or not you get a powerful spell off.
Without complete wording on things like defensive fire and snap fire, all these rumors except for a few seem to point to buffs to Tyranids and Blood Angels. Though gauss weapons removing hull points is pretty big for Necrons.
I really should have picked a better day to go to bed early. Its taken me 3 hours to read through all these posts! I started feeling worryed that the world was over with allies but now i realise, my tau can take friends....mwa ha ha!
Testify wrote:Sources are sources because of their closeness to information, not for their typing reliability don't hang up on it too much.
Special trumps general anyway. Even if the core rulebook said Tesla added an additional hit on a 6, the 'cron codex still says to add 2, so you do.
.
Um, no. There will be Codex FAQs released en masse with the BYB. If they decide to change the Tesla rule into a universal effect your FAQ will say something like, "Pg. XTesla: Replace this wording with the wording from page Y of the Warhammer 40,000 Rulebook"
I would actually not be surprised if that happens, since I saw a rumour days ago that suggested Necron players would lament having equipped their Immortals with tesla. It didn't make sense to me until this new tidbit came out today. I forget where I read it -- it may have been some pathetically grungy 40K blog I was linked to from another board.
Well, guess what. If they change the rules for Tesla, then my Immortals will have funky looking Gauss Blasers that look a lot like Tesla Carbines instead. No fuss no muss.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/06/21 01:42:49
Solve a man's problem with violence and help him for a day. Teach a man how to solve his problems with violence, help him for a lifetime - Belkar Bitterleaf
kenzosan wrote:
Oh I agree. I'm constantly bitching at my friends about how my elite melee fighters cant take out a standard marine squad. I ran theory on it and it was just so stupid.
Anyone that doesn't know: on the charge, Howling Banshees and Striking Scorpions come out with 1-2 wounds left after wiping out a 10 man tac squad. The point difference is too great and that's an elite vs a troop. If you contest this, I'd love to hear arguments about how I'm wrong because I want to field either of those units.
I would be happy to show how this is wrong.
Banshees have a pistol and a power weapon and strike at I5. That means 3 attacks on the charge. A Tac Marine does not have a CCW, except for the Sergeant, and they have rapid fire weapons plus a heavy weapon, so more than likely they will fail to get the charge against a Fleet unit with pistols and have 1 attack per marine, with the Sergeant at 3 attacks for CC+Pistol and 2 base.
e.g. without an Exarch, without Leadership tests that the Tac Marines would be taking every turn, and without a charge bonus, Banshees would win by 7 models in CC against Tac Marines. YMMV with an Exarch or with a Power Weapon on the Serg, but suffice to say, if you're looking for something to complain about in C:SM, it probably shouldn't be Tactical Marines, which are nearly universally regarded as being nothing special.
That being said, I'm totally on board with this rumored psychic chart being complete bs for Xenos. I'm planning on playing Orks, and I can't say I like the idea of having our Psyker, already one of the worst and most unreliable in the game (with NO psychic defense!) being further cemented into the bottom of the dustbin.
Must have been assault marines then I did the math on. Cuz I remember there being 2 attacks per marine when I did the math. Blood angels were the codex I was using so the point of a troop being that good against an elite is still valid.
Don't know how you reached that particular mathematical conculsion...
Let's re-examine that shall we?
Spoiler:
10 Howling Banshees vs. 10 tactical marines.
Average charge distance of 7" (41.6% chance of failure), banshees have a 28.4% greater chance to make the distance due to possible rerolls (assuming Fleet is rerolls on one die in the charge distance and not both). Assuming rerolls to both dice the chance of failure for the Howling Banshees drops to only 17.36%
10xSpace Marines (C:SM) vs 10xHowling Banshees (Eldar)
WS4 S3 T3 vs. WS4 S4 T4
Values are assumed to be rounded accordingly for casualties.
I don't get the feeling that psykers are going to rule. What ability are people seeing that is any nastier than something already in a codex?
As someone who plays Tau and almost never takes anything other than null zone as a psykic power, I dont see anything worrisome.
DO:70S++G++M+B++I+Pw40k93/f#++D++++A++++/eWD-R++++T(D)DM+ Note: Records since 2010, lists kept current (W-D-L) Blue DP Crusade 126-11-6 Biel-Tan Aspect Waves 2-0-2 Looted Green Horde smash your face in 32-7-8 Broadside/Shield Drone/Kroot blitz goodness 23-3-4 Grey Hunters galore 17-5-5 Khan Bikes Win 63-1-1 Tanith with Pardus Armor 11-0-0 Crimson Tide 59-4-0 Green/Raven/Deathwing 18-0-0 Jumping GK force with Inq. 4-0-0 BTemplars w LRs 7-1-2 IH Legion with Automata 8-0-0 RG Legion w Adepticon medal 6-0-0 Primaris and Little Buddies 7-0-0
QM Templates here, HH army builder app for both v1 and v2 One Page 40k Ruleset for Game Beginners
Not too fussed about the psychic powers table, way I see it it, why would the psychically-gifted xenos have the same powers as primitive Imperial monkeys. I'm cautiously optimistic that the codex faqs will either buff the racial psychic powers (orks) or at least keep them distinct from the standard power table (eldar, they powerful enough already).
I'd be more annoyed if my weirdboyz had the same power table as sanctioned psykers and marineboy librarians, the gestalt power of the waaaaugh is a force unto itself, why are we then casting the same cantrips?!
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e.g. without an Exarch, without Leadership tests that the Tac Marines would be taking every turn, and without a charge bonus, Banshees would win by 7 models in CC against Tac Marines. YMMV with an Exarch or with a Power Weapon on the Serg, but suffice to say, if you're looking for something to complain about in C:SM, it probably shouldn't be Tactical Marines, which are nearly universally regarded as being nothing special.
That being said, I'm totally on board with this rumored psychic chart being complete bs for Xenos. I'm planning on playing Orks, and I can't say I like the idea of having our Psyker, already one of the worst and most unreliable in the game (with NO psychic defense!) being further cemented into the bottom of the dustbin.
Must have been assault marines then I did the math on. Cuz I remember there being 2 attacks per marine when I did the math. Blood angels were the codex I was using so the point of a troop being that good against an elite is still valid.
And Banshees still won? You do realize that Assault Marines are close combat troops?
So your Elite close combat unit wins against a Troop close combat unit and you're complaining why. PS, you do realize that Banshees cost 16 pts a model and Assault Marines cost 18? They get a free transport, but still..
Let's run the math on Assault Marines (which are completely different from Tactical Marines and are actually a Fast Attack choice in Codex Space Marines)
I'm going to assume that no one get's a charge, so no charge bonus to keep it fair and easy. 10 Howling Banshees (no exarch), 160 points, versus 190 points of Assault Marines.
Spoiler:
.5*.33*2*10
3.3
.5*.66*.5*2*5.7
1.881
.5*.66*.5*3
.495
2.376
Marines lose combat by .9
.5*.33*2*7.6
2.5
.5*.66*.5*2*3.5
1.155
.5*.66*.5*3
.495
1.65
Marines lose combat by .85
.5*.33*2*7
2.31
.5*.66*.5*2*1.2
.4
.5*.66*.5*3
.495
.9
Marines lose combat by 1.4
.5*.33*2*6.1
2
So Banshees win by a margin of 6 models against 190 points of Assault Marines in CC. Oh, and if they spend 50 points on a Sang Priest, which also takes an Elite slot, you also ignore their FNP saves, making that extra investment meaningless against your Banshee's CC attacks. The Marines do get a free transport, or jetpacks, making their charge bonus more accessible, and they can also get Furious Charge (which would have a huge impact on combat), but still, with no Exarch and a big price gap, I think it's silly to complain about this.
Fang, son of Great Fang, the traitor we seek, The laws of the brethren say this: That only the king sees the crown of the gods, And he, the usurper, must die.
Mother earth is pregnant for the third time, for y'all have knocked her up. I have tasted the maggots in the mind of the universe, but I was not offended. For I knew I had to rise above it all, or drown in my own gak.
Altruizine wrote:Um, no. There will be Codex FAQs released en masse with the BYB. If they decide to change the Tesla rule into a universal effect your FAQ will say something like, "Pg. XTesla: Replace this wording with the wording from page Y of the Warhammer 40,000 Rulebook"
And since when has gw EVER did a mass faq QUICKLY?!?!?
It could be a few weeks, a few months or...I don't know...a few years for all of these faqs to come out?
Sourclams wrote:He already had more necrons than anyone else. Now he wants to have more necrons than himself.
- apparently you can bodyguard all special characters (non independent ones on a +4)
NO! Oh, for the love of the Emperor, NOOooo! This could potentially give already-imbalanced characters like Mephiston ablative wounds or something akin to a 4++!
Mephiston isn't an independent character and can't join a squad, so no bodyguards.
imweasel wrote:And since when has gw EVER did a mass faq QUICKLY?!?!?
They did for the release of 5th edition...
Didn't they vomit out a bunch of FAQs for Fantasy at the release of 8th?
I'm fairly sure they did - I was going to play Dwarfs, and I remember a lot of Dwarf players hoping for a tune-up for the gyrocopter, and then not getting it in the FAQ. *shrug*
Fang, son of Great Fang, the traitor we seek, The laws of the brethren say this: That only the king sees the crown of the gods, And he, the usurper, must die.
Tons!
Tons!
2,000pts
2000
Blue DP Crusade 126-11-6 
Biel-Tan Aspect Waves 2-0-2 
Looted Green Horde smash your face in 32-7-8 
Broadside/Shield Drone/Kroot blitz goodness 23-3-4 
Khan Bikes Win 63-1-1 
Tanith with Pardus Armor 11-0-0 
Crimson Tide 59-4-0 
Green/Raven/Deathwing 18-0-0 
Jumping GK force with Inq. 4-0-0 
BTemplars w LRs 7-1-2 
IH Legion with Automata 8-0-0 
RG Legion w Adepticon medal 6-0-0 
7000 pts + Going through a re-do & growing
IG slowly gathering 
