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ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Fafnir wrote:

Maige wrote:

Fafnir wrote:Ah, that would explain a fair bit. The "version" of the book I am currently reading does not seem to contain that section...

huehuehuehuehuehue same here.

If it is true then Draigowing just got BETTER.

Oh boy...

Draigowing was never the prize pig of the GK codex. It packs a lot of survivability and raw killpower, but has virtually no mobility and its presence on the table is limited to a single quarter at a time. I would argue that Paladins are actually decently balanced, all things considered.

The main offenders are really purifiers and Psyriflemen. Purifiers are simply some of, if not the best infantry in the game, all while being priced very competitively, and Psyriflemen require no explanation.

Not to mention the fact that you have to roll a 4+ to transfer the wound.

Still gives them quite a buff to survivability, not to mention you don't HAVE to diversify them anymore.

ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Not to mention the fact that you have to roll a 4+ to transfer the wound.

Which is why you have Draigo sit at the front to pass it on a 2+.

EDIT: I just realized, wound allocation isn't just still in the game, it actually got buffed. Not only do you not need to spend on upgrades to differentiate the squad, but more importantly, since you'll generally be using the same save against most weapons, you can roll to save before you pass on any wounds. This is huge, since it allows you to allocate wounds without having to worry about nasty surprises, like having two rolls allocated to a guy who rolls double 1s.

Well yeah, Allo-shenanigans in 5th still had its limits.

For example if you were hit by two meltas and less than 9 other shots, you'd have to take a melta on one of your palls and potentially waste a wound.

Now we can take both on Draigo.

EDIT: @ Fafnir
I haven't had time to scour the rules in a meticulous sense yet. Is the LOS save done after a failed save?

Andy06r wrote:Does this mean that rolling wounds on Paladins will be unbelievably tedious?

Shoot a paladin squad with 30 bolters, getting 20 wounds.

Will you have to 4+ LOS, allocate, and then roll to wound EACH wound (or in batches of two if the lead man has both wounds remaining?).

/Groans

It's

Roll wounds

Allocate wounds to unit (Yes, all 20 wounds)

Roll LoS dice for each one (roll in a batch, you only get ONE ROLL PER WOUND PERIOD)

Dole out wounds afterwords if they pass.

Oh crap just checked it can be unsaved

Now I'm trying to figure out how tedious this will be....

Okay, so what's the significance of the phrasing "wound (or unsaved wound)" in regards to Look Out Sir?

Is this how it works?

Take 20 wounds, roll 20 saves.

Am left with 12 wounds.

Start with the closest model. Roll for each wound, one at a time. On a 4+ I can choose which model (within 6") takes that wound, on a 1, 2, or 3, the wound must be taken by that model. When that model dies, move on to the next closest model.

This seems to me how it works, but I don't get why they placed the words "wound, or unsaved wound" at the start. Why would I try to allocate wounds from Look Out Sir before I knew if the models would pass their save or not?

The difference depends on how the wounds are allocated. In other words, if you're using mixed saves or not. If you have all the same save, you roll after the save has been made. If they have different saves, you have to allocate before (which is why my theory of Ghaz making a unit of Boyz lolbroken fell didn't work... yet).

Fafnir wrote:The difference depends on how the wounds are allocated. In other words, if you're using mixed saves or not. If you have all the same save, you roll after the save has been made. If they have different saves, you have to allocate before (which is why my theory of Ghaz making a unit of Boyz lolbroken fell didn't work... yet).

Well, reading through the rules you could place a 2+ save independent character at the front of a unit of 5+ save models.

Since they have different saves, each wound is resolved individually.

So you allocate a wound to the closest model. He takes his save. If he fails, you can then take a 2+ LoS check to move the wound to a 5+ model.

Keep doing this until all the wounds are gone.

I can't find anything saying you have to allocate wounds before saves are taken.

The key word (and what I originally missed) is 'allocate,' and when you do it. For models with different saves, they are allocated before the save rolls are actually made, which means you have to roll for LOS before the save is made. In cases where models have the same save, wounds are allocated after the save rolls are made, so you do the LOS rolls then.

Ah, I see. For units with an identical save, saves are taken before allocation, while in mixed save units they are taken after allocation. And LoS is done at the allocation stage.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Something else to consider with paladins: 6's to hit become precision shots/strikes. Another layer of complication, but also another boost.

Other way around, but you got it.

Also, precision strikes sounds like it could end up swinging the tide of some fights in a really good way, especially since, with NFW, instant death is so easy to throw around. Get into close combat and spread the wounds around to every model in the unit, if they're multi-wound, or to the enemy characters if not.

Also, being characters means they can challenge, which means you can send a single Paladin in to a unit of Boyz, challenge the nob, kill him, and then proceed to wreck the rest of the unit for the rest of the game. Effectively taking the ~210 point unit of boyz out for 55 points.

Paladins being characters has given them so much utility, it's strange to go against the cynicism I hold for 6th edition, but the tactical depth that Paladins are getting could make them a really interesting unit this edition, and so much more than a simple glacier of a beatstick.

FAQ is already out.

Halberds are not going to be treated like axes, just like unusual psy weapons. I would paste directly from the FAQ, but I'm reading it in spanish.

–
Nemesis
Force
Weapons,
Force
Weapons.
Change
the
first
sentence
to
read
“Unless
otherwise
stated,
all
Nemesis
weapons
are
Unusual
Force
Weapons,
as
detailed
in
the
Warhammer
40,000
rulebook.”


Page
61

Thats a tad annoying.

So Nemisis weapons are just AP3(except for Hammers and Doomfists) right now



In other news, Stormravens are AMAZING!!!

They are probably the best flyer currently. AV12 is a toughnut for other flyers and many AA weaponry to crack. Although its very bad when they blow up.


Missile Launchers have gotten a 3rd ammo type, called Flakk, which is Str7 AP4 Skyfire(hits Flyers on normal BS) Only Missile launchers got this, Clyclone and Typhoon launchers don't have Flakk missiles.

Longfangs are all SWs need to deal with flyers. Dreadnought missile launchers are decent too.



You need to be very careful when positioning your models within the units. Casualties are removed from the closest models.

The closest model takes saves till he dies and then the next closest model takes saves till he dies and so on.

So characters/special weapons can get taken out if they are close to the enemy.



And for Dreadknights, Doomfists now give you double strength as all mention of walker is gone from its description.

Kind of disappointed about halberds, they would have been much more interesting weapons if they were axes.

What about rending now? I heard that its now on the roll to hit and no longer on the roll to wound or penetrate. This would make psycannons much better.

It's on the wound roll.

On the plus side, Paladins, being characters, get to allocate any wound rolls of a 6, which means all those nasty rending hits go exactly where we want them to.

Damn so Halberds are AP3, oh boy. Get ready to see the nerd rage from the WAACS!

Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:Get ready to see the nerd rage from the WAACS!

That was entirely unneeded.

Fafnir wrote:

Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:Get ready to see the nerd rage from the WAACS!

That was entirely unneeded.

So was AP2 at I6. Zing, zoom, swish.

Who said that they would be I6? We were hoping for I3.

In my part, not for "WAAC" purposes, but for the sake of making halberds unique weapons that filled a specific niche within the codex.

Fafnir wrote:Who said that they would be I6? We were hoping for I3.

I didn't say they would be, but as a matter of fact they were AP2 at I6 in 5th edition, lol.

And we've had a massive paradigm shift in 6th, so that doesn't even matter in context anymore.

Paradigm shift as in a massive nerf to Power Weapons.

Unless you mean the more general turkey stuffing melee got.

TedNugent wrote:Paradigm shift as in a massive nerf to Power Weapons.

Unless you mean the more general turkey stuffing melee got.

Little bit of both, really.

Well, I guess we'll just play more like we did with the DH codex. Less agressive, more focused on shooting and avoiding the enemy before charging into combats of opprotunity.

Although, with rapid fire weapons getting buffed, they've become more powerful in comparison to the stormbolter shuffle. GK'll still win that firefight, but it won't be as one-sided as before. Especially if people end up bringing nasty toys like plasma along.

Grey Templar wrote:Well, I guess we'll just play more like we did with the DH codex. Less agressive, more focused on shooting and avoiding the enemy before charging into combats of opprotunity.

Its only really against TH/SS Termies that GK are at a huge disadvantage now, against GEQ and MEQ GK still dominate in CC.

As a henchman player, but without seeing the new rulebook yet (damn post), I have the following thoughts:

1) meltabomb acolytes will be extremely viable as vehicle killers (I think they were under 5th). Perhaps even better than IG melta vets. Although perhaps difficult to play due to no-assaulting-from-vehicle rules.
2) single psykers might be useful if they can take the new powers.
3) crusaders are more useful when deliberately placed closest to the enemy.
4) i understand there has been a lascannon buff due to the new vehicle glance mechanics and snapshot, so jokaeros just got better.

Could someone with the new rulebook please tell me whether eviscerators are better? How have they changed if at all?

Are multilasers now AP - or is this fairly clearly going to be errata'd back to AP 6?

Have there been any changes to assaulting into cover that might affect DCA?

Thanks chaps.

Sethorly wrote:
2) single psykers might be useful if they can take the new powers.

They can't.

Could someone with the new rulebook please tell me whether eviscerators are better? How have they changed if at all?

Lost 2D6 armour penetration.

Have there been any changes to assaulting into cover that might affect DCA?

Nope. Still need someone with grenades. Oh, you can't assault out of Chimeras anymore. Like, at all, even if it was stationary.