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I know it is early, but it between the White Dwarf and other leaks I think we have enough to chime in. What do you guys think, as far as specific units, or tactics for the army as a whole?

My brief thoughts:

Paladins just got much worse - No wound allocation means a 10 man unit cannot take 10 wounds and still be 10 dudes strong. Big big change. The fact that they get a 2+ save to PW in CC doesn't help enough to counter the lack of wound allocation.

Power armored dudes, slightly worse? If PW are AP3, then MCs and Termies are going to be more trouble in CC. Also, since rapid fire got a little better, the SBs aren't as ridiculous as they used to be.

Interceptors, slightly better? Increased potential charge range and get a I10 attack on the assault.

Dreadknight, not sure - Gets 2+ in CC versus PW, gets (maybe) some crazy vector strike attack if teleporter is purchased,

Dreadnoughts, ?? - Easier for them to be destroyed, but then again, easier for the dreads to blow up transports.

Is the PW are AP3 rumor confirmed?

If it is true, then Terminators as troops got alot better.

Paladins lose their wound allocation, but honestly it was a silly mechanic that just got confusing. Gaining immunity to PWs is HUGE however. FnP going to 5+ also hurts them slightly.

Grey Templar wrote:Is the PW are AP3 rumor confirmed?

Don't know, probably not? I don't know what is actually "confirmed" right now. The AP3 thing is all over the place so I consider it likely.

If it is true, then Terminators as troops got alot better.

In CC yes, definitely. They needed that boost since in shooting PAGK were and still are so much better per point spent...

Paladins lose their wound allocation, but honestly it was a silly mechanic that just got confusing. Gaining immunity to PWs is HUGE however. FnP going to 5+ also hurts them slightly.

People took the apothecary? Anyway, no wound allocation is huge! Draigo can't eat lascannon shots, you can't give all the Paladins one wound before any of them die... if two saves are failed, that's one dead Paladin. Well if those two shots came from the same direction at least...

If you were running Draigowing, you took Apothecaries(with full 10 man squads of Paladins)

They are an upgrade thats better the bigger the squad is.


And Draigo can still eat lascannon shots. He just needs to be the closest model.

Just played a game where I shook his Rhinos 4 times in one shooting phase with my dread. I expect the hull points if they work as rumors say to make them alot stronger vs light armor. You no longer need a 5/6 to take it out for good and get the troops out to be shot.

GK Termies im expecting to make a bit of a come back and maybe the dread knight(Prob not) as well since people will need more then a Sargent with a power sword to take them out.

Grey Templar wrote:And Draigo can still eat lascannon shots. He just needs to be the closest model.

Right... which won't be the case much of the time.


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Grey Templar wrote:If you were running Draigowing, you took Apothecaries(with full 10 man squads of Paladins)

They are an upgrade thats better the bigger the squad is.

I saw a rumor that FNP is 5+, but it is for everything that doesn't cause ID, which means it would work against plasma and melta shots. If true that's definitely a bit of a boost for Paladins....

Hasnt the rapid fire rumor been debunked already? Same as 5th.

Am I the only one who likes Draigowing on an aesthetic basis?

I'm still going to use them, looks like I might be pulling off a few arms though, I'm thinking of halberd spam which is cool because it's my favourite weapon choice. Anyone else got an idea on optimal equips now that WA is gone?

Also any info on how the new psyker abilities apply would be good. If it goes too awry for the pallies I might just pull off some of the psycannons and use them as termies (leaving everything else though especially the helms).

Maige wrote:Am I the only one who likes Draigowing on an aesthetic basis?

I'm still going to use them, looks like I might be pulling off a few arms though, I'm thinking of halberd spam which is cool because it's my favourite weapon choice. Anyone else got an idea on optimal equips now that WA is gone?

Also any info on how the new psyker abilities apply would be good. If it goes too awry for the pallies I might just pull off some of the psycannons and use them as termies (leaving everything else though especially the helms).

No, I love Land Raiders and Terminators.

That's pretty much what my army is.

Byte wrote:Hasnt the rapid fire rumor been debunked already? Same as 5th.

People are saying you can move and shoot once at the full distance, which you couldn't do in 5th. Originally people were saying you could stand still and shoot TWICE at the full distance, but that seems not to be the case.


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Maige wrote:I'm still going to use them, looks like I might be pulling off a few arms though, I'm thinking of halberd spam which is cool because it's my favourite weapon choice. Anyone else got an idea on optimal equips now that WA is gone?

Great question! If normal power weapons are AP3, does it make sense to have as many halberds as possible? Striking first is well and good, but if you switch weapons and end up taking a few I4 hits from the enemy using your 2+ save that won't be so bad. Might be better to have some more swords to get 4++ in CC, or more hammers (since halberds and swords aren't going to do much of anything versus MCs or things in 2+ armor).

Well I suppose the jury is out until we have a complete and meticulous confirmation on CCWs and assault allocation.

AFAIK there's been no leak on force weapons although I'm assuming they will be AP3 with ID on activation (which will probably be used more often in order to bypass FnP). Hammer rules have been altered apparently, the extent of which is still unknown although it's pretty obvious they will be at least AP2.

GK TEQs receive no benefit from the new power sword inv (5++) but our swords have always had 4++ although this is not as valuable now that PWs have been demoted.

Which brings me to my last point; Warding Staves. Could go either way depending on how combat allocation works. On one hand they could now be considered overpriced against most opponents because of the lack of AP2 weapons. On the other hand (if allocation allows) they will cause an iron defence by negating the elusive AP2 weapon causing the bulk of our wounds to resolve at 2+, which is an absolute nightmare for the likes of Banshees and Wyches who used to be able to cause a dent in 5th.

We also need to discuss allies....

We didn't really need any buffs, GK was already one of the most competitive lists.

I am looking forward to the changes to shooting, at least if the stuff in the leak is still in, see if it makes the problem of BS3 less of a bother for Coteaz lists.

Since wound allocation shenanigans are gone how should I equip the 30 Paladins I have left unbuilt? I'm thinking 10-man squads with a brother banner, two hammers, seven halberds, and four psycannons. Still on the fence whether or not to include an Apothecary anymore, and there really doesn't seem to be a point of equipping them with swords or warding staves anymore now that you'll be getting the 2+ armor save on most attacks anyhow...

EDIT: Just realized something else, with the new MC rules giving the Dreadknight the Hammer just became a much more viable option...

Paladin deathstars are dead, but I think they can still earn their keep in small units. A unit of 3 or so Paladins with a stave will make for a very resilient tarpit that should keep most enemies bogged down in CC for a while.

185 points nets you three paladins and a stave. With 6 wounds and a 2+ armour save that just got a lot more valuable, it'll take a lot to knock them down or make them run. They won't be killing much, but a unit like that should be able to hold down a unit of boyz (assuming the stave eats the powerklaw) for the better part of a game, or act as a fairly cheap (Paladins and cheap, I know, right?) way of eliminating basic power armour squads.

Oh yeah, and Holocaust.

Just so you guys know, the current rumor is that power SWORDS are AP3, but grant a 5++ in combat, and that power AXES are AP2, but no special save.

Fortitude becomes close to absolute garbage in 6th. Thats a good thing tho since 5pts was so insanely underpriced in 5th edition. Ven.Dreads are also pretty much hosed.

Not really, against Penetrating hits its pretty nice as 1-3 is no damage(and GK vendreds can ignore 1-3)

http://natfka.blogspot.se/2012/06/pics-pages-from-rulebook-force-weapons.html

From this thread:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/3660/456706.page

In short: it's a nerf. Force weapons are AP3 and affected by special rules in the Codex. I'm not sure exactly what it all means, in part because of the way the photos have been framed and in part because the rules don't make much sense. You may need the FAQ to make sense of it.

There isn't even any mention of instant death rules, which is why I think there may be another page with rules pertaining to Force Weapons (you can sort of see it in the bottom left corner of the third picture).

Well, Halberds look like they got even more awsome. +1Str and AP2 in addition to the +2I bonus

Staves are decent too, although only being AP4 is abit of a drag. Still, +2Str and 2+ invuln seems woth it.

Where are you getting this +2S +2I AP2 nonsense from?

Fafnir wrote:Where are you getting this +2S +2I AP2 nonsense from?

We don't know if halberds will count as axes yet. And even if they do, keep in mind, it's not +2I, it's I(1)+2, and for all we know, the initiative being reduced to 1 could happen after any other modifiers, as it is with a powerfist, making it straight up I1.

My guess is that Nemesis halberds will fall under the "special force weapons" rule so they'll be +2 initiative, AP3.

Grey Templar wrote:Not really, against Penetrating hits its pretty nice as 1-3 is no damage(and GK vendreds can ignore 1-3)

Stunned and Shaken is not as big an issue in 6th as they were in 5th so that alone decreases the utility some. 3 glances/pens on a 195pt AV12 walker is not difficult to achive. For instance, a Scatterwalker squadron with guide will statistically kill the Vendread in one go. Paying 60pts for the ability to reroll on the damage table is a joke.Hell, even Holofields, which are vastly superior (and cheaper) than the Ven upgrade is quite useless in 6th.

Freman Bloodglaive wrote:My guess is that Nemesis halberds will fall under the "special force weapons" rule so they'll be +2 initiative, AP3.

Yes, they will indeed be AP 3 which is quite clear if you read the paragraph below the table of force weapons.

Fafnir wrote:We don't know if halberds will count as axes yet. And even if they do, keep in mind, it's not +2I, it's I(1)+2, and for all we know, the initiative being reduced to 1 could happen after any other modifiers, as it is with a powerfist, making it straight up I1.

"If it's an axe or halberd, it's a force axe."

It's not a force axe or halberd, it's a Nemesis halberd which is a force weapon with its own Codex rules as specified on that page. Consequently it follows its Codex with the addition of being AP3.

Freman Bloodglaive wrote:My guess is that Nemesis halberds will fall under the "special force weapons" rule so they'll be +2 initiative, AP3.

yes.

If the new proper rules for flyers and skimmers are true then the Stormraven is a viable option (even though its an ugly build). Full infantry loadout with IC makes dealing with pesky long range peeps easier. Add a Dreadnought with flamer loadouts and I think you could clear a good portion of the board in one turn. I know the Dreadnought probably wouldn't last long, but if it distracts fire and takes a few units with its probably worth it. Perfect for armies that don't want to enter CC with you. All his assault troops would be in forward positions.

Also looking at adding a IG Platoon. Pure cannon fodder. Only problem would be is that they don't have the best alliance, which means low LD

I'm a little iffy about Stormravens actually. Depends if they can enter hover mode when they arrive or not. They start in reserves, and when they come in if they have any troops in them they can't disembark (assuming they can't enter hover mode on arrival). Then an AA gun shoots them out of the sky and everyone on board dies more often than not. Protecting flying transports is gonna be a high priority in 6th... I'll have to keep it in mind when I get my Stormeagle.

Grey Knight force weapons fall under the "special force weapon" classification, so they're all AP3. Note that this means that Grey Knights have no method of dealing with 2+ saves, since their Nemesis Dæmonhammer is a special force weapon and therefore AP3. Hopefully, this will get an FAQ, but it could very well just be a new weakness for the Grey Knights.