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Why so serious?

Testify wrote:Flamers just got amazing.
Not sure about screamers. Sure they'd smash MEQ in assault, but looking at my current flying circus build I can't see a space for them. I wouldn't want to ditch a FMC, and I need enough horrors to hold ground.
Also we don't know that they don't retain the 4++. Keep the jury out on that one.

Screamers are awesome in their own right. Lets math-hammer out 6 screamers assaulting a squad of 10 standard MEQ.

The MEQ will fire 16 bolter shots, 1 MG shot, and 1 krak missile at the screamers.
Bolters will do .86 wounds (1/6 hit, 1/2 wound, 2/3 unsaved, 16 shots)
1 MG will do .09 wounds (1/6 hit, 5/6 wound, 2/3 unsaved, 1 shot)
1 krak will do .09 wounds (1/6 hit, 5/6 wound, 2/3 unsaved, 1 shot)
You can expect the overwatch to do 1.08 wounds.

MEQ in assault will do 2.44 wounds (2/3 hit, 1/2 wound, 2/3 unsaved. They have 11 swings)
Screamers assaulting will do 8 wounds (1/2 hit, 2/3 wound, no saves, they have (24 swings)

If your hitting a GH squad that counter-assaults, or if there are mighty ICs, this mathhammer changes pretty quickly. A buffed squad of those will wreck enough screamers to where the squad wont be much good afterwords.

What makes the screamers bank IMHO is that they can also wreck vehicles just as easily. If you compare them to a bike assault unit (blood claw bikers) the screamers win out.
You can bring 18 screamers and know that you have 3 squads that can deal with nearly every threat in the game (save flyers, and 3++ save models)

Really impressed with the changes to Screamers, they finally seem worth using.

labmouse42 wrote:

Testify wrote:Flamers just got amazing.
Not sure about screamers. Sure they'd smash MEQ in assault, but looking at my current flying circus build I can't see a space for them. I wouldn't want to ditch a FMC, and I need enough horrors to hold ground.
Also we don't know that they don't retain the 4++. Keep the jury out on that one.

Screamers are awesome in their own right. Lets math-hammer out 6 screamers assaulting a squad of 10 standard MEQ.

The MEQ will fire 16 bolter shots, 1 MG shot, and 1 krak missile at the screamers.
Bolters will do .86 wounds (1/6 hit, 1/2 wound, 2/3 unsaved, 16 shots)
1 MG will do .09 wounds (1/6 hit, 5/6 wound, 2/3 unsaved, 1 shot)
1 krak will do .09 wounds (1/6 hit, 5/6 wound, 2/3 unsaved, 1 shot)
You can expect the overwatch to do 1.08 wounds.

MEQ in assault will do 2.44 wounds (2/3 hit, 1/2 wound, 2/3 unsaved. They have 11 swings)
Screamers assaulting will do 8 wounds (1/2 hit, 2/3 wound, no saves, they have (24 swings)

If your hitting a GH squad that counter-assaults, or if there are mighty ICs, this mathhammer changes pretty quickly. A buffed squad of those will wreck enough screamers to where the squad wont be much good afterwords.

What makes the screamers bank IMHO is that they can also wreck vehicles just as easily. If you compare them to a bike assault unit (blood claw bikers) the screamers win out.
You can bring 18 screamers and know that you have 3 squads that can deal with nearly every threat in the game (save flyers, and 3++ save models)

So where are you going to cut in your list to make room for screamers?

kenshin620 wrote:

Jomy wrote: I'm glad they're all failcast.

The only resin model is the Blue Scribes

oh really? I suppose I could get some plague bearers then.

I dont know if its the paintjobs but...those models really are meh.

Sorry you don't like em DP. I personally looove the chariots. I like the old plaguebearers a bit better.. but the nurglings make it for me, they are the perfect amount of funny.

Stunning models, and cool new rules to boot. I think Screamers are potentially a very powerful unit, but they're also true glass cannons-- so time will tell whether or not they can be effective. One big problem is that they lack grenades and are only WS3, so if you charge a squad of Grey Hunters in cover and they pass Counterattack, each model in the target unit will on average inflict a wound against you before you even get to swing. Not good!

Don't the charging Screamers get HOW attacks as well that could reduce some of the hits back since they are jetbikes? Against lower init armies they got even more brutal, with their increase in I.

Ah yeah, their rules do seem really damn screwy between the BRB, WD Codex, and C. I think it's pretty clear what they wanted though (5++ save, use the C rules for everything else). And perhaps the next FAQ will clear things up. Bueller? Bueller?

The Screamers still look like Screamers. Thank Tzeentch!

And the Nurglings are great. Good thing they're all plastic. Means I can still get them overseas.

Am I the only one here who thinks that most of these new models look like a$$? I love daemons dont get me wrong, just not impressed.

quickfuze wrote:Am I the only one here who thinks that most of these new models look like a$$? I love daemons dont get me wrong, just not impressed.

If you're used to the previous daemon designs then you might not like the new ones. I remember those fond days when the daemonettes were revealed

uggh I hate the new daemonettes, in fact I just worked a deal for 30 of the Juan Diaz ones...

Does the Herald of Slaanesh chariot being 'limited' mean GW only, or will it be available everywhere for 'a little while'?

Testify wrote:So where are you going to cut in your list to make room for screamers?

Excellent question.

Since I am currently playing a traitor guard army, I plan on losing my russes' to take a bloodthirster, 6 screamers and some troops.
That will help me shore up my IG weakness of assault.

Swara wrote:Sorry you don't like em DP. I personally looove the chariots. I like the old plaguebearers a bit better.. but the nurglings make it for me, they are the perfect amount of funny.

no worries, thats your opinion and I can accept it no matter how wrong it might be though I do also love the chariots, just not the things riding them :3

as for the plaguebearers, GS and hard work and I'll have them grimdarked up in no time

labmouse42 wrote:

Testify wrote:So where are you going to cut in your list to make room for screamers?

Excellent question.

Since I am currently playing a traitor guard army, I plan on losing my russes' to take a bloodthirster, 6 screamers and some troops.
That will help me shore up my IG weakness of assault.

That's pretty smart. I also have a guard army and something that can take out MEQ/Termies/Walkers is definitely a boon.
I still can't see how they'd fit into a flying circus army but I'll give them a go, the new models look cooler too.

So where are you going to cut in your list to make room for screamers?

I'm not sure how well they fit into the Flying Circus build since you really need tons of MCs for that to work, but they are a *huge* boost to fluffy Thousand Sons armies. All the AP3 bolters are great at killing MEQ but the army has huge troubles killing TEQ and opening tanks. A detachment that includes the Fateweaver, a min squad of Horrors, and a squad of 5 Screamers will add a ton to the effectiveness of that army and still keep the Tzeentch theme.

Amazingly, every Tzeentch model in the Daemons book is now viable in 6th. Fateweaver has always been good. Lord of Change got majorly buffed with the new flying MC rules. A Herald on Disc with a largish squad of Flamers could put out some serious punishment and take advantage of wound allocation by using Look Out Sir. Flamers are better than they used to be and cost 2/3 what they used to. Screamers ruin tanks and terminators. Tzeentch princes with wings are improved as well. Only Horrors are weak but they only have to compete with the book's other weak troops so you don't feel bad taking them.

labmouse42 wrote:

MEQ in assault will do 2.44 wounds (2/3 hit, 1/2 wound, 2/3 unsaved. They have 11 swings)
Screamers assaulting will do 8 wounds (1/2 hit, 2/3 wound, no saves, they have (24 swings)

If your hitting a GH squad that counter-assaults, or if there are mighty ICs, this mathhammer changes pretty quickly. A buffed squad of those will wreck enough screamers to where the squad wont be much good afterwords.

What makes the screamers bank IMHO is that they can also wreck vehicles just as easily. If you compare them to a bike assault unit (blood claw bikers) the screamers win out.
You can bring 18 screamers and know that you have 3 squads that can deal with nearly every threat in the game (save flyers, and 3++ save models)

You forgot to include the 6 hammer of wrath attacks the screamers would inflict. (Auto hit, 1/2 wound, 1/3 unsaved, so 1 extra wound.)

Also, maximum squad size for the screamers is 9, not 6.

Yes, I did a lot of freeze framing.

Imagination gone wild.
Too often i get locked into one mindset. At fist i was only going to use the nurgle models from the range in conjunction with my Death guard army. Then my creative side kicked in. I am totally going to model up some Nurgle Flamers of Tzneech. After all nurgle is most likely to have template weapons that kill whatever they touch. I foresee reeling plague bearers that have huge tanks on their backs and nozzles for arms. Nice.

sennacherib wrote: I foresee reeling plague bearers that have huge tanks on their backs and nozzles for arms. Nice.

Like Cryx Bile Thralls? Sounds cool

Yes Please only more boils and festering. Thats my favorite part of the nurgle fluff and i have embraced it fully.

Looking forward to ordering a box of nurglings, and a box of plague bearers.

quickfuze wrote:Am I the only one here who thinks that most of these new models look like a$$? I love daemons dont get me wrong, just not impressed.

No, no you're not. The flamers look okay, but I really don't like the plaguebearers (they look like the kind of thing Mantic would turn out - though without the pleasingly low price, and compare particularly badly with Warmachine's Cryx thralls, or indeed Malifaux's rotting bayou things), and the Slaaneshi chariot looks a bit... agricultural.

All I know is a Herald on Disc w/Breath & 6 Flamers is gold now. Especially since Screamers will be able to take over the killing that fiends used to do.

Honestly, Tzeentch just became the most well rounded god. Tons of shots (Horrors), Vehicle & Heavy infantry killing from shooting (Flamers), and vehicle & all infantry killing in CC (Screamers) w/decent support characters & flying DP's.

It's good to see

The Screamers are really nice, but even in my otherwise mono-Tzeentch lists I use a ton of Fiends (I use Dirz sighthound models, they look great and are cheap). They caused all sorts of hate and discontent in 5e and I can't wait for them to tear it up in 6e now that there might be more infantry running around. Six WS4 S5 rending attacks on the charge each plus hit and run (at I5!). They are +5 points over the new Screamers but only the Flamers are any competition in the Elite slots Fiends are the business.

They don't really have any LOS or challenge shenanigans though, which is a bit of a bummer right now, but I'm sure the new Chaos Marines codex will have someone you can herd them around with and smash face.

Looks nice...but still no word that Bloodcrushers gets the hammer of Wrath, or are a bit more faster then foottroops...

IT'S A DAMN RHINOCEROS MADE OUT OF METAL!!!, for flying feths sake!

A RHinoceros can go to a speed of 65km/h on uneven and accidented terrain!

A SM Rhino is supposed to go at a speed of 50km/h on accidented terrain...

See where this makes no sens?..., i'm not asking that they become as fast as bikes or regular cavalry, but they did a special rule for the Monolith, wich is at themoment the only vehicule in the game that is a Heavy vehicule...

So why couldn't they just add a "Heavy cavalry" line?...

And SoulGrinders in fantasy?, really, can you become more lazy than this?...

Now i know that in the ol' days of RoC and 1 and 2 ED of Warhammer, it could ne common to see a Chaos Champion in fantasy with a Plasma gun or Bolt pistol as a reward.

But really...,thats stupid...

oh well at least the fantasy players will have a new unit to play with...

Slayer le boucher wrote:Looks nice...but still no word that Bloodcrushers gets the hammer of Wrath, or are a bit more faster then foottroops...

IT'S A DAMN RHINOCEROS MADE OUT OF METAL!!!, for flying feths sake!

A RHinoceros can go to a speed of 65km/h on uneven and accidented terrain!

A SM Rhino is supposed to go at a speed of 50km/h on accidented terrain...

See where this makes no sens?..., i'm not asking that they become as fast as bikes or regular cavalry, but they did a special rule for the Monolith, wich is at themoment the only vehicule in the game that is a Heavy vehicule...

So why couldn't they just add a "Heavy cavalry" line?...

And SoulGrinders in fantasy?, really, can you become more lazy than this?...

Now i know that in the ol' days of RoC and 1 and 2 ED of Warhammer, it could ne common to see a Chaos Champion in fantasy with a Plasma gun or Bolt pistol as a reward.

But really...,thats stupid...

oh well at least the fantasy players will have a new unit to play with...

Would be nice to see Bloodcrushers become Beasts, as that would help with movement. Might have to wait for a new codex to see if this changes, but we should know for certain if they are a mount option in the new CSM codex and still count as infantry. Chances are that they didn't take this opportunity to update them in WD they will stay the same.

I agree, Soul Grinders in Fantasy is lazy. Period. They have put out so many large monster kits for Fantasy they could have easily come out with something different for Fantasy. Which, I guess, is where the Slaanesh chariot falls in, And boy what a kit. This is the kind of stuff I was hoping for when Daemons go their own codex initially. Getting most of the existing units out of the way leaves me with high hopes for the cool stuff they could release with a new codex.

Hm, the codex update is kind of messy written for the chariots. Sometimes the chariot is fleet, and sometimes the exaulted alluress is fleet, and unit entry is not consistent with armylist when it comes to listing special rules.
The worst part is the hellflayer entry that describe the rule for Fleshshredder, yet leave it out in the armylist.
But I suppose the unit entry/bestiary is more important, giving both fleet and fleshshredder to all chariots.

Great to see some new stuff though!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6mCUoRYN3Y

What I see when I see that slaanesh chariot

JoeyFox wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6mCUoRYN3Y

What I see when I see that slaanesh chariot

First thing that came to my mind to lol

Have to say I actually quite like all these models, the only thing holding me back from an army was the fact limited plastics but with plague bearers especially, will consider now