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Beauty? Please, it's no better than any other segmentums, and in many ways worse, because of bad strategic and tactical decisions made by the Astartes.
(laughs) please. I can use fluff too...Ultramar is the greatest of the Space Marine realms, and the best place in the galaxy to live. Codex: Space Marines 5th Edition's entry on Chapter Masters even make it clear that Space Marine realms are better off than other Imperial fiefdoms.
...most Chapter Masters rule entire worlds, systems, or sub-sectors in the Emperor's name. Such places are zones of relative prosperity and stability in a galaxy riven by war...
I should have left him there. He had served his purpose. He owed me nothing - yet he gave himself to me willingly. Why? I know not. He is nothing more than a pathetic human. An inferior race. A mon-keigh. But still I broke off my wings so that I might carry him easier. I took him from that place, into the snowstorm where our tracks will not be found. He is heavy. And he is dying. And he is slowing me down. But I will save him. Why? I know not. He is still warm. I can feel his blood ebbing across me. For every beat of his heart, another, slight spill of heat. The heat blows away on the winter wind. His blood is still warm. But fading. And I have spilled scarlet myself. The snow laps greedily at our footsteps and our lifeblood, covering them without a trace as we fade away.
'She sat on the corner, gulping the soup down, uncaring of the heat of it. They had grown more watery as of late she noted, but she wasn't about to beggar food from the Imperials or the "Bearers of the Word." Tau, despite their faults at least didn't have a kill policy for her race.'
(headbang)
Again, shall we get back on topic? I just feel this is going to become a massacre if I let it go on any longer.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh wow. The poll results are certainly in my favour!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/29 12:05:46
Currently attempting to put together a homebrew non-canon Space Marine chapter. If I can be bothered to getting around to painting the models and putting the things together of course...
Tadashi wrote:So the Daemonhunters/Khornate Knights will be marching on Ophelia VII and other Shrine Worlds? That should be entertaining. I wonder if they'd invite other Chapters into the party. I for one, will relish burning Ophelia VII down.
Sheesh, you are obsessed with this.
Why should the Ordo Malleus intend to purge the entire Ministorum just because a single individual has been taken over by a daemon? Might as well terminate all Space Marines, considering that a whopping 50% sided with Chaos during the Horus Heresy. Or hey, let's purge the Inquisition itself, considering that certain Radical Inquisitors use Daemonhosts.
As the Ecclesiarchy attempted to have the preacher Icarael sainted, Inquisitor Karamazov arrested, tortured and executed the guy for being a "false prophet", even as the Ecclesiarch himself intervened and petitioned to have the preacher freed, and other Inquisitors prepared to attack Karamazov's fortress as their requests to see this potential Living Saint were ignored. Still, Karamazov's claims were vindicated as the taint of Chaos was later uncovered amongst Icarael's followers. There was no aftermath for the Ecclesiarchy whatsoever, other than Karamazov is still disliked by both the Ministorum as well as the Thorian faction of the Inquisition.
You allow your judgment to be clouded by personal bias against the Adeptus Ministorum. Let go of it.
Melissia wrote:
Tadashi wrote:Besides, the existence of Saints and Acts of Faith have never been confirmed as being unconnected to the Warp.
Yes they have. Specifically stated not to be, in fact.
Correction - Acts of Faith have been stated as such. We know exactly nothing about the Living Saint.
In fact, the 3E Codex specifically throws a bone to this theory when, in the textbox about Living Saints, it states that "[...] the most earnest advocates of the beatification are to be found amongst the Thorians. This faction of the Inquisition believe that the great saint Sebastian Thor was in fact a vessel through which the Emperor took a direct hand in the course of history, and that other examples of such 'avatars' are to be found amongst the teeming billions of mankind. Others, notably members of the Ordo Malleus, oppose such theories, seeing in them the threat of domination from the denizens of the Warp."
I'd wish that people would label personal opinions as such instead of making it sound so convinced as if the books themselves would clearly state it somewhere - I think that would make many discussions on dakka a whole lot easier.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/29 16:51:28
I think the point has been made that Tadashi hates the Ministorum and the Ecclesiarchy. If that's his view, let him have it. Different opinions make us individual.
If you don't think that, then that's fine. Everyone has something to say about one thing or another.
Currently attempting to put together a homebrew non-canon Space Marine chapter. If I can be bothered to getting around to painting the models and putting the things together of course...
2012/07/29 18:27:05
Subject: Re:Are good daemons theoretically possible?
I think the occurrence of "good" Daemons is very rare but there is the potential for it to happen.
Heralds of Rot CSM 4000 pts
"In short there is no Order only Chaos eternal so lament and be quelled with fear if you serve the False Emperor or accept the gifts bestowed by the pantheon of the four gods and rejoice as the galaxy burns." - Unknown Wordbearer
Mynameisalie wrote:If that's his view, let him have it. Different opinions make us individual.
Oh, absolutely. I just think there's a difference between having an opinion and letting it dominate a discussion.
For instance, I really cannot stand the Space Wolves and think the fluff would be better off without them - yet I do not make some sort of campaign of it and gloat over how wonderful it'd be to have them purged. Asking about possible repercussions is one thing, but this here went one step further, so I thought it necessary to advice taking a step back and re-evaluate one's stance towards the setting. We're not roleplaying in this thread, after all.
... or are we?
For the record, I'd be more than happy to slaughter a few Ministorum priests together with one of Tadashi's characters in a game of the Black Crusade RPG!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/29 23:39:23
LoneLictor wrote:Tzeentch is hope.
Nurgle is caring.
Slaanesh is happiness.
Khorne is justice.
I suppose there are some cults who would want their members to believe this, yeah.
LoneLictor wrote:justice system is based around revenge which is based around anger)
I would say this depends greatly on the country. A lot of industrial nations actually have a justice system centered around deterrence and rehabilitation. The time we actually employed the "eye for an eye" thing is a few centuries over.
Also, a justice system by Khornates would have the death penalty for jaywalking.
LoneLictor wrote:Tzeentch is hope.
Nurgle is caring.
Slaanesh is happiness.
Khorne is justice.
I suppose there are some cults who would want their members to believe this, yeah.
Dude, it's true. The Chaos Gods are powered by emotion, and though in the grim darkness of the far future most emotion is negative in some way, some is good. Thus, the Chaos Gods aren't completely evil, just mostly evil. Like a guy who tortures small animals but loves his ma.
LoneLictor wrote:Dude, it's true. The Chaos Gods are powered by emotion, and though in the grim darkness of the far future most emotion is negative in some way, some is good. Thus, the Chaos Gods aren't completely evil, just mostly evil. Like a guy who tortures small animals but loves his ma.
I'm fairly sure this is not how it works. An individuum cannot be good and evil at the same time, especially since we are not discerning between "small animals" and "ma" here but these four entities' stance towards humanity. And from everything I've seen, this stance is fairly consistent.
Of course positive emotions exist somewhere amongst this torrent of hatred and violence, but whether these actually have an effect on the Chaos Gods is completely unknown (do you think a serial killer would change his mind if somebody hugged him?). It is also just as possible they simple get directed somewhere else (see the Living Saint theory) - after all, there once was a time when Slaanesh wasn't around, he/she/it only came into being as the emotion of pleasure surpassed a certain threshold; it doesn't seem as if it was "soaked up" by the other three Chaos Gods.
LoneLictor wrote:Tzeentch is hope. Nurgle is caring. Slaanesh is happiness. Khorne is justice.
(To clarify on the Khorne one; the justice system is based around revenge which is based around anger)
I think Khorne also represents courage. His warriors are either bat-**** crazy, insanely brave or both.
Lynata wrote:
LoneLictor wrote:Dude, it's true. The Chaos Gods are powered by emotion, and though in the grim darkness of the far future most emotion is negative in some way, some is good. Thus, the Chaos Gods aren't completely evil, just mostly evil. Like a guy who tortures small animals but loves his ma.
I'm fairly sure this is not how it works. An individuum cannot be good and evil at the same time, especially since we are not discerning between "small animals" and "ma" here but these four entities' stance towards humanity. And from everything I've seen, this stance is fairly consistent.
Of course positive emotions exist somewhere amongst this torrent of hatred and violence, but whether these actually have an effect on the Chaos Gods is completely unknown (do you think a serial killer would change his mind if somebody hugged him?). It is also just as possible they simple get directed somewhere else (see the Living Saint theory) - after all, there once was a time when Slaanesh wasn't around, he/she/it only came into being as the emotion of pleasure surpassed a certain threshold; it doesn't seem as if it was "soaked up" by the other three Chaos Gods.
On the other hand, I don't think the Chaos Gods would just die if everything was resolved and the Galaxy got along (that sounds really cheesy). You know, the pos/neg emotion balance tips towards positive? I think the Chaos Gods would be inverted in some way. That's my theory, anyway. It is theoretically possible. I also have a challenge for you guys, if you're interested.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/07/30 05:09:21
Currently attempting to put together a homebrew non-canon Space Marine chapter. If I can be bothered to getting around to painting the models and putting the things together of course...
I would imagine that angelic like beings could exist in the warp, and saints and other "good" beings being poed, at least in part of, by the positive emotions.
Mynameisalie wrote:On the other hand, I don't think the Chaos Gods would just die if everything was resolved and the Galaxy got along (that sounds really cheesy). You know, the pos/neg emotion balance tips towards positive? I think the Chaos Gods would be inverted in some way.
See, this is something I'd find far more plausible. Also ties in with the whole Khaine -> Khorne deal I was rambling about earlier.
Gentleorks, I present to you - The Warp:
Mynameisalie wrote:I also have a challenge for you guys, if you're interested.
For the record, I'd be more than happy to slaughter a few Ministorum priests together with one of Tadashi's characters in a game of the Black Crusade RPG!
I have no idea if you're trolling me or not...just to clarify, I prefer to keep my RP characters as 'Chaotic Good'. They break the letter of Imperial Law all the time, but the Inquisition can't really convict them since the spirit of the law is kept. Of course, the Ecclesiarchy hates them for this, but seeing as in one game of RP at my college's 40k group ended with an purgation force of sisters gunned down for 'interference' my characters are avoided by the Ecclesiarchy and their drones alike.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/07/30 05:33:00
I should have left him there. He had served his purpose. He owed me nothing - yet he gave himself to me willingly. Why? I know not. He is nothing more than a pathetic human. An inferior race. A mon-keigh. But still I broke off my wings so that I might carry him easier. I took him from that place, into the snowstorm where our tracks will not be found. He is heavy. And he is dying. And he is slowing me down. But I will save him. Why? I know not. He is still warm. I can feel his blood ebbing across me. For every beat of his heart, another, slight spill of heat. The heat blows away on the winter wind. His blood is still warm. But fading. And I have spilled scarlet myself. The snow laps greedily at our footsteps and our lifeblood, covering them without a trace as we fade away.
'She sat on the corner, gulping the soup down, uncaring of the heat of it. They had grown more watery as of late she noted, but she wasn't about to beggar food from the Imperials or the "Bearers of the Word." Tau, despite their faults at least didn't have a kill policy for her race.'
However, they would be quite weak, wouldn't they? The lack of emotion that actually formed them in the first place would leave them weak. They'd be hunted down, and destroyed. Unless they were contained in something ordinary Warp entities cannot get to...
Like a crystal, perhaps? Not Eldar Wraithbone specifically, but if they were contained inside a crystal where no daemon or god can get to them, then that might keep them alive long enough to evolve and grow.
Currently attempting to put together a homebrew non-canon Space Marine chapter. If I can be bothered to getting around to painting the models and putting the things together of course...
Mynameisalie wrote:However, they would be quite weak, wouldn't they? The lack of emotion that actually formed them in the first place would leave them weak. They'd be hunted down, and destroyed. Unless they were contained in something ordinary Warp entities cannot get to...
Like a crystal, perhaps? Not Eldar Wraithbone specifically, but if they were contained inside a crystal where no daemon or god can get to them, then that might keep them alive long enough to evolve and grow.
you could just say that this is for your Lynx race.
Tadashi wrote:I have no idea if you're trolling me or not...just to clarify, I prefer to keep my RP characters as 'Chaotic Good'. They break the letter of Imperial Law all the time, but the Inquisition can't really convict them since the spirit of the law is kept. Of course, the Ecclesiarchy hates them for this, but seeing as in one game of RP at my college's 40k group ended with an purgation force of sisters gunned down for 'interference' my characters are avoided by the Ecclesiarchy and their drones alike.
Huh, no trolling - just expressing my ability to go beyond faction bias and enjoy a game "from the other side of the fence", so to say. Every setting needs its antagonists, and often they are awesome enough to be enjoyable playing. I usually don't do this in 40k, but I play "the bad guys" in a whole lot of other settings (Sith in Star Wars, Drow in D&D) and am quite capable in getting into their mindset and temporarily adopting their perspective of things to better portray whatever character I portray. I have also purchased the Black Crusade RPG rulebook, so the interest is there for 40k as well, even if I don't have a CSM/Daemon army in the TT.
That said, the game you mention sounds less like something I'd have much fun with - I consider consequences and the maxim that every action begets a reaction to be extremely important for consistency; it's part of why I dislike the Space Wolves, which I mentioned earlier, then without providing a reason.
Mynameisalie wrote:However, they would be quite weak, wouldn't they? The lack of emotion that actually formed them in the first place would leave them weak. They'd be hunted down, and destroyed. Unless they were contained in something ordinary Warp entities cannot get to...
Like a crystal, perhaps? Not Eldar Wraithbone specifically, but if they were contained inside a crystal where no daemon or god can get to them, then that might keep them alive long enough to evolve and grow.
I think that legend about Khaine and Khorne could be used to extrapolate from. Lots of hypothesising and theorising, but if there's an inkling of truth about the Eldar accounts of Khaine being "claimed" by Khorne that could already say a lot about how things work in the warp. The nature of daemons is so unclear that we could probably churn out a hundred ideas on how this works, including that Khaine and Khorne are just two aspects of the same entity, like two minds battling each other for possession of the body.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/30 05:52:26
Mynameisalie wrote:However, they would be quite weak, wouldn't they? The lack of emotion that actually formed them in the first place would leave them weak. They'd be hunted down, and destroyed. Unless they were contained in something ordinary Warp entities cannot get to... Like a crystal, perhaps? Not Eldar Wraithbone specifically, but if they were contained inside a crystal where no daemon or god can get to them, then that might keep them alive long enough to evolve and grow.
you could just say that this is for your Lynx race.
did this really need its own thread?
Argh, damn it! How did you know?! Wait, forget that. You replied to the race thing. (headbang against a brick wall repeatedly) This thread is now going to go downhill. Forget the race, people!
Automatically Appended Next Post: And yes, it did. Damn it. Still, it is something I was thinking about. It wasn't actually connected to my race at first...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lynata wrote:
Mynameisalie wrote:On the other hand, I don't think the Chaos Gods would just die if everything was resolved and the Galaxy got along (that sounds really cheesy). You know, the pos/neg emotion balance tips towards positive? I think the Chaos Gods would be inverted in some way.
See, this is something I'd find far more plausible. Also ties in with the whole Khaine -> Khorne deal I was rambling about earlier.
Gentleorks, I present to you - The Warp:
Mynameisalie wrote:I also have a challenge for you guys, if you're interested.
Does it involve a Daemonette?
I am actually LMAO. That is hilarious! But if that's a good description of the Warp, then I'm happy. No, it doesn't involve a Daemonette. Can you turn each of the Greater Daemons of each Chaos God into a benign daemon? I dare you to try it. The only one I can do is Tzeentch. So, you have to create a Greater Daemon of each Ruinous Power using only the positive aspects of that god. I'd like to see someone try that. It'll be insanely hard. It took me 48 hours to come up with Tzeentch.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/07/30 06:04:59
Currently attempting to put together a homebrew non-canon Space Marine chapter. If I can be bothered to getting around to painting the models and putting the things together of course...
Lynata wrote:
That said, the game you mention sounds less like something I'd have much fun with - I consider consequences and the maxim that every action begets a reaction to be extremely important for consistency; it's part of why I dislike the Space Wolves, which I mentioned earlier, then without providing a reason.
Funny story, actually. I had to pick between escorting several thousand civilian evacuees or an Ecclesiarchy convoy including a Cardinal - I chose the former, and the latter was butchered by Orks with the Cardinal barely escaping with his life. So, the guy sends a purgation force of sisters as retaliation, but thing is, my group was busy reclaiming a manufactorum when the sisters charge with their guns blazing. You can imagine how the Skitarii and Space Marines took that. The game ended with the Inquisition dismissing all allegations of treason and heresy - can't really fault the Astartes for saving several thousand civilians and the Mechanicum for gunning down sisters who were blowing holes in precious machinery.
I should have left him there. He had served his purpose. He owed me nothing - yet he gave himself to me willingly. Why? I know not. He is nothing more than a pathetic human. An inferior race. A mon-keigh. But still I broke off my wings so that I might carry him easier. I took him from that place, into the snowstorm where our tracks will not be found. He is heavy. And he is dying. And he is slowing me down. But I will save him. Why? I know not. He is still warm. I can feel his blood ebbing across me. For every beat of his heart, another, slight spill of heat. The heat blows away on the winter wind. His blood is still warm. But fading. And I have spilled scarlet myself. The snow laps greedily at our footsteps and our lifeblood, covering them without a trace as we fade away.
'She sat on the corner, gulping the soup down, uncaring of the heat of it. They had grown more watery as of late she noted, but she wasn't about to beggar food from the Imperials or the "Bearers of the Word." Tau, despite their faults at least didn't have a kill policy for her race.'
Mynameisalie wrote:No, it doesn't involve a Daemonette. Can you turn each of the Greater Daemons of each Chaos God into a benign daemon? I dare you to try it. The only one I can do is Tzeentch. So, you have to create a Greater Daemon of each Ruinous Power using only the positive aspects of that god.
I'd like to see someone try that. It'll be insanely hard. It took me 48 hours to come up with Tzeentch.
Huh - well, personally I don't agree with all the connections LoneLictor made, but he was off to a good start.
Tzeentch really is hope, for change can be positive when your current situation sucks or you simply intend to somehow better it. Tzeentch can also be the God of Knowledge and Science, and generally a patron of advancement and exploration.
Nurgle ... huh, I suppose he could become a God of Health and Rejuvenation. In my opinion, the proliferation of its plagues is way more important to Nurgle than "care", but nobody actually says that plagues have to be bad, right? They could instead immunize people against local malaries, or help their bodies adapt better to averse conditions on the world people are living on. Kind of like a symbiotic relationship?
Slaanesh ... well, nobody says that pleasure and perfection are bad - the difficult thing is that there needs to be a line drawn. If Slaanesh would simply tone down his or her exploits a little, everything would be alright. But is this possible?
Same for Khorne, really. He could become a God of contests, the patron of fighters pitting their might against one another in honourable combat. I would not be surprised if many native cultures across the galaxy erroneously revere him as such already.
Tadashi wrote:Funny story, actually. I had to pick between escorting several thousand civilian evacuees or an Ecclesiarchy convoy including a Cardinal - I chose the former, and the latter was butchered by Orks with the Cardinal barely escaping with his life. So, the guy sends a purgation force of sisters as retaliation, but thing is, my group was busy reclaiming a manufactorum when the sisters charge with their guns blazing.
Why would a cardinal send a "purgation force" if you were given a choice? Sounds like that guy was abusing his authority and the Sororitas (strange that he had access to them later on but not for his convoy) did not even know. In this case, the consequences should probably include an internal affairs investigation within the ranks of the Ecclesiarchy, imho.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/30 06:19:09
How. Did. You. Do. That?
God, I'm uncreative when it comes to daemons.
Currently attempting to put together a homebrew non-canon Space Marine chapter. If I can be bothered to getting around to painting the models and putting the things together of course...
Currently attempting to put together a homebrew non-canon Space Marine chapter. If I can be bothered to getting around to painting the models and putting the things together of course...
2012/07/30 06:27:17
Subject: Re:Are good daemons theoretically possible?
Tadashi wrote:Funny story, actually. I had to pick between escorting several thousand civilian evacuees or an Ecclesiarchy convoy including a Cardinal - I chose the former, and the latter was butchered by Orks with the Cardinal barely escaping with his life. So, the guy sends a purgation force of sisters as retaliation, but thing is, my group was busy reclaiming a manufactorum when the sisters charge with their guns blazing.
Why would a cardinal send a "purgation force" if you were given a choice? Sounds like that guy was abusing his authority and the Sororitas (strange that he had access to them later on but not for his convoy) did not even know. In this case, the consequences should probably include an internal affairs investigation within the ranks of the Ecclesiarchy, imho.
That character was actually sent into early retirement by the Ordo Hereticus for sparking an incident between the Ecclesiarchy on one side, and the Space Marines and the Mechanicum on the other side. The Mechanicum was very angry, seeing a precious manufactorum recovered almost intact from the Orks get damaged by sisters sent in by a Cardinal who apparently told them that the Space Marines had fled the field instead of standing and fight. The surviving sisters went on a pilgrimage to Dimmamar as penance for their ignorance, so we won't be seeing those group of characters for...a month, I think.
Come to think of it, I wonder why the GM gave his (I'm not giving names) character access to sisters...but aren't sisters technically part of the Ecclesiarchy, just seconded to the Ordo Hereticus whenever necessary?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/07/30 06:30:56
I should have left him there. He had served his purpose. He owed me nothing - yet he gave himself to me willingly. Why? I know not. He is nothing more than a pathetic human. An inferior race. A mon-keigh. But still I broke off my wings so that I might carry him easier. I took him from that place, into the snowstorm where our tracks will not be found. He is heavy. And he is dying. And he is slowing me down. But I will save him. Why? I know not. He is still warm. I can feel his blood ebbing across me. For every beat of his heart, another, slight spill of heat. The heat blows away on the winter wind. His blood is still warm. But fading. And I have spilled scarlet myself. The snow laps greedily at our footsteps and our lifeblood, covering them without a trace as we fade away.
'She sat on the corner, gulping the soup down, uncaring of the heat of it. They had grown more watery as of late she noted, but she wasn't about to beggar food from the Imperials or the "Bearers of the Word." Tau, despite their faults at least didn't have a kill policy for her race.'
Just proves the extent of mankind's ignorance and stupidity. And reflects it in real life as well. Ah, well, we're human. It's what we are.
Currently attempting to put together a homebrew non-canon Space Marine chapter. If I can be bothered to getting around to painting the models and putting the things together of course...
Mynameisalie wrote:Just proves the extent of mankind's ignorance and stupidity. And reflects it in real life as well. Ah, well, we're human. It's what we are.
Darwinian/Nitzschean Trans-Humans...join us. We are the future...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/30 06:32:32
I should have left him there. He had served his purpose. He owed me nothing - yet he gave himself to me willingly. Why? I know not. He is nothing more than a pathetic human. An inferior race. A mon-keigh. But still I broke off my wings so that I might carry him easier. I took him from that place, into the snowstorm where our tracks will not be found. He is heavy. And he is dying. And he is slowing me down. But I will save him. Why? I know not. He is still warm. I can feel his blood ebbing across me. For every beat of his heart, another, slight spill of heat. The heat blows away on the winter wind. His blood is still warm. But fading. And I have spilled scarlet myself. The snow laps greedily at our footsteps and our lifeblood, covering them without a trace as we fade away.
'She sat on the corner, gulping the soup down, uncaring of the heat of it. They had grown more watery as of late she noted, but she wasn't about to beggar food from the Imperials or the "Bearers of the Word." Tau, despite their faults at least didn't have a kill policy for her race.'
LOL!
For some reason I feel a real need to spam, but I'll refrain from it.
Wait a second...
This is my 301st post!
I feel like I should include something of worth in it.
Ok, well, someone mentioned earlier about my race? Yes, It's true. I have been trying to see whether this could support a theory I have formulated for my race for the last 8 odd posts I have made. Hate me if you will. But hey! I'm an idealist!
That's actually all I can currently think of... God I need to lay off the coke and coffee.
Currently attempting to put together a homebrew non-canon Space Marine chapter. If I can be bothered to getting around to painting the models and putting the things together of course...
Red Hunters: 2000 points 
Grey Knights: 2000 points 
Black Legion: 600 points and counting 
Heralds of Rot CSM 4000 pts 
