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Made in us
Dominating Dominatrix






1) i didnt call you slowed. I called the thing you said slowed.

2) All you have done is provide us with a big list of really dumb and disgusting gak you have done and are apparently proud to have done.

If anything, the fact that you did and will do again, all that gross stuff is all the more reason why anyone should steer clear of your advice when it concerns paint licking.


These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

The Nazis were right. It's better to be a Nazi than a fan.

Thank you for getting me on the side of Milo and the Nazis.

 
   
Made in ca
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





London, Ontario

Not necessarily proud. I mean, some of it, yeah.

But the point is all of those things were survived and thrived from. Licking a brush is not only NOT going to harm you in the amount that a model painter might ingest, but may indeed lead to habits and proclivities that will result in a life well lived, and thoroughly enjoyed.

Worrying about piddly things like “oh, sweet yet cruel and uncaring universe. What If that thing I read on the internet is true and touching trace amounts of paint to my body is harmful?! I should never take a chance of that possibly happening! Oh, the horror!” Will result in you curled up in a corner with a blankie, fearing the harmful effects of sunlight.

So seriously, if you’ve never licked a clean brush, for fear of harmful side effects, do it. And live the rest of your life knowing that’s one thing that didn’t kill you. Then try something else. Seriously, big world, go try it.

Everything causes cancer. All good food is bad for you. You need water to live, but if you breathe it you’ll die in about 30 seconds. Figure out what real risks are, so you can decide if taking that risk is worth it. Experience let’s you avoid mistakes and you get experience by making mistakes.

Fear of paint in the mouth is cosmically and absurdly hilarious. People should post their survival stories of their harrowing experiences licking brushes.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/13 19:35:03


 
   
Made in us
Dominating Dominatrix






Cool argument.

You know how all those people have done meth but didnt die or suffer immidiate noticably permanent effects? Get out there and live! Do meth! But just a little bit of meth at a time. Life experience! Come back and tells us stories about how you survived meth in small amounts.


These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

The Nazis were right. It's better to be a Nazi than a fan.

Thank you for getting me on the side of Milo and the Nazis.

 
   
Made in ca
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





London, Ontario

I can’t speak to meth. It’s a little bit more dangerous than paint. Which I know because I’ve tried paint, and directly observed the effects of meth on others.

Having tried other “stimulating” substances, and determining that I liked it so much that I never did it again for fear of acquiring an addiction I couldn’t afford, I can say that it was an incredible experience and I’m glad to have experienced it.

But comparing hard substances to paint? Not exactly an equivalence I’d try to argue. Probably why paint is available to minors, over the counter, and Meth isn’t.
   
Made in us
Dominating Dominatrix






The comparison is not hard drugs to paint. Its things you shouldnt put in your body vs this other thing you shouldnt put in your body.

They both, equally, dont belong in your bodh.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I was pointing out the logical fallacy of your argument. If just a little bit of this toxic substance that doesnt benefit you is fine then why not just a little bit of THIS toxic substance? Life experience right? This is a good foundation for making decisions!

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/07/13 20:20:32



These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

The Nazis were right. It's better to be a Nazi than a fan.

Thank you for getting me on the side of Milo and the Nazis.

 
   
Made in ca
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





London, Ontario

Your “logical” argument assumes correctness which is itself a logical fallacy. You assume the knowledge of things you shouldn’t put in your body. There are many things I think shouldn’t be put in your body, like hypodermic needles, yet many people require that to continue living. While I don’t compare paint to a hypodermic needle, I will point out my argument is that putting minute amounts of diluted paint in your mouth *for the benefit of shaping a brush* is worth the (near zero) risk of harm.

I can anecdotally prove through 25 years of experience that this practice has been harmless to me, while I’ve enjoyed the benefit of precisely shaped brushes. I’m willing to wager one (1) internet-street-cred against yours that you can’t find a case of illness directly related to the minute consumption of licked brushes, unrelated to lead paint or radioactive paint, by an amateur painter. I recognize that professional painters exposed to industrial paint processes do experience those risks.

My argument is that in minute quantities, there are no harmful effects to brush licking for non-lead, non-radioactive paint. There is a benefit, for some, like me.

Your argument continues to use the false equivalence fallacy. This is illogical. You attempt to straw man my argument by comparing two dissimilar things, which I have not.

I do not suggest consuming, even at microscopic levels, materials that are *likely* to cause immediate harm. Many “hard” substances are killing people all over Southwest Ontario. They can kill in doses less than a tenth of a grain of sand. That has proven, fatal consequences directly and immediately linked to consumption.

Paint does not.

PS: Trying new things, experimenting, taking (usually) smart risks, taking (sometimes) foolish risks, being willing to accept the consequences of my actions and decisions has given me an excellent life. When it gets down to it, I’m content and satisfied with my life and my future. It has been an effective, successful,and enjoyable way to live.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/13 20:54:54


 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




The OP is 100% talking about Vallejo. It was said very loudly at Adepticon this past year by a gentleman selling paints.
   
Made in ca
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





London, Ontario

Sweet. I’m a Citadel man, myself. In yo’ face, hate-ahs!

Don’t chug paint. It might upset your stomach. Or do, and maybe become a YouTube sensation, your call. Happy weekend to you all!
   
Made in fi
Elusive Dryad





 Lance845 wrote:
I was pointing out the logical fallacy of your argument. If just a little bit of this toxic substance that doesnt benefit you is fine then why not just a little bit of THIS toxic substance? Life experience right? This is a good foundation for making decisions!

The whole point however is that the paint is, in fact, not toxic. (Until proven otherwise by the OP. I'm not holding my breath.) Toxic in the meaning of "harmful to your health at any quantities even remotely near those you might ingest". Paranoia about any hypothetical potential contamination compromizing its saftey is as relevant here as it is to the air that you breathe, the food you eat and the water you drink, or the car that you drive, or the airplane you board, or the microwave you use, or the blanket you sleep under, or the chair you sit in, or the rollercoaster you ride, or the phone you use, or [...]. You can't be 100% certain they're safe, but they should be, so you have to live by that assumption. You can say that you have to put food in your mouth, but don't have to put the brush there. But neither is supposed to be harmful, so it doesn't matter. And while requiring nutrients to stay alive is all well and good, there is a lot of processed food with a complicated supply chain you could do without, yet still happily consume, assuming it to be safe (correctly assuming, most of the time). You could avoid many of these risks, but the risks are so low that they are negligible, and indeed should be ignored unless you want to drive yourself mad.
It's not that this is risk factor you could easily avoid. It's that it simply isn't a risk factor by any stretch of the imagination.
   
Made in gb
Androgynous Daemon Prince of Slaanesh





Devon, UK


Tyton wrote:
The OP is 100% talking about Vallejo. It was said very loudly at Adepticon this past year by a gentleman selling paints.


t's also likely bs.

One quick Google shows a thread from years ago on the Reaper forum with people losing their gak because Vallejo was poison.

Then the next day, somebody actually suffering from cancer refuting the whole thing, basically they weren't typical and were looking for a possible cause. Vallejo paint was a possibility, but nothing concrete. Vallejo had done nothing wrong in terms of legality and while cadmium is present in their paint, it is in an inert form and not considered toxic.

A little further down the first page of Google, as find that Vallejo reformulated and removed cadmium in any form 5 years ago.

This looks decidedly apocryphal in the absence of further info.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/13 21:13:46


We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

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[DCM]
Gargantuan Great Squiggoth





Not where I should be

Just want to say a thank you to Major Tom, if you are young and coming into the hobby, as apposed to the salty crowd commenting, pay heed to a master (Major Tom). It is not good to suck on paint brushes. It is also not good to use spray cans in doors, or use glues and other chemicals in an unventilated areas.

I do not need to be given scientific journals to tell me that sticking paint in my mouth is a bad idea. Regardless of quantity. Why do people have to be so silly about this stuff. If you have gone through life licking your brush, that is up to you, the advice in the OP is still valid, especially for anyone just starting out in the hobby. No point starting bad habits. I am not comparing licking your brush to cigarettes, but it is a similar argument, some people go through life smoking 20 a day and never have an issue, others die young because of it. Most people will not really be affected at all by licking their paint brush, but some might be affected, and therefore it is not a good idea to start a bad habit.

Guess I am trying to say, why the hell are people arguing. Good solid advice from respected member of the community. Just find it incredible that people argue about this stuff.




 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

 Azreal13 wrote:

Tyton wrote:
The OP is 100% talking about Vallejo. It was said very loudly at Adepticon this past year by a gentleman selling paints.


t's also likely bs.

One quick Google shows a thread from years ago on the Reaper forum with people losing their gak because Vallejo was poison.

Then the next day, somebody actually suffering from cancer refuting the whole thing, basically they weren't typical and were looking for a possible cause. Vallejo paint was a possibility, but nothing concrete. Vallejo had done nothing wrong in terms of legality and while cadmium is present in their paint, it is in an inert form and not considered toxic.

A little further down the first page of Google, as find that Vallejo reformulated and removed cadmium in any form 5 years ago.

This looks decidedly apocryphal in the absence of further info.


Thank you for the info.
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Dankhold Troggoth






Shadeglass Maze

Let's stay on topic, please. The discussion and criticism is valid and useful, and worth having in a broader sense even beyond the details of a certain case. So please, no thread derailment here - thanks!

For myself, this is a habit I've been meaning to kick anyway. I'm curious, what do people use instead of licking their brush tips - brush soap to sculpt it back to shape when done painting? But what about in the middle of a painting session?

It's so easy to lick the paintbrush tip, that I'd be much more likely to be successful in changing habits if I had an alternative!
   
Made in ca
[DCM]
Acolyte of Goodwin






Sunny SoCal

This at least is an answer I can give -

Generally so long as your brush is rinsed sufficiently, and you have kept paint away from the ferrule (the metal sleeve the bristles are housed in) you shouldn't have much trouble at all simply rolling the brush on tissue while damp to repoint perfectly. If you are having trouble, you have options such as rolling the brush on the back of your hand as I am sure you guys have seen many pro's do, as your body oils can condition the brush and make it hold together a bit better than water. If you are at wits end, then gross as it sounds, a little spit on the back of the hand will work too.

Brush cleaner should be applied between sessions in a thorough clean, the main goal of it is to break up semi dry and maybe even dry paint, particularly as tends to accumulate up towards the ferrule as time goes on. This is ultimately what messes up your brushes.

When you are done, re-point your brushes using one of the mentioned methods, the brush should be slightly moist with water, place it back in it's protective clear plastic sleeve or put it someplace it won't be jostled at all on the brush portion and as it dries it should retain the point and be conditioned to continue to do so.

#1 rule for 'you' care: Don't eat paint if you can help it. (Don't need to freak out if a little bit once in the while, but if you are going to town 5 nights a week for a few hours each, yeah you've got a habit there lol)

#1 rule for brush care: Keep paint away from the ferrule
#2 rule for brush care: don't squish and splay the bristles on a brush you want to keep a point on.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/14 06:22:26


   
Made in gb
[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Pigeons in Flight






In my Austin Ambassador Y Reg

I use Masters soap, rinse it off, blot with tissue paper and then use my thumb and forefinger to shape the point. Never realised people stuck it in their mouth, to be honest.

But then, as echoed above and earlier, surely any advice, regardless of its citations or sources or lack of, not to stick things in your mouth that you don't know the provenance of, is good advice?

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Made in gb
[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Killer Klaivex







I think a few people in this thread should be aware that MajorTom was a moderator here sometime back, and certainly does not fall into the 'troll' camp (even if he does 'tag 'lol' onto half his sentences - crazy colonial types....). So no, he's not a complete stranger here to others in the community, and probably not just chucking stuff out for a casual giggle. He does have a certain degree of reputation, and is known to more than one other person on here in real life. It';s not April fools day.

MajorTom has acknowledged that he cannot (for various unspecified reasons) name any names. He's stated that what he's saying has involved credible scientific testing (not publication in an academic journal). Unfortunately, Majortom has also stated that he cannot disclose that testing either, despite knowing full well that on the internet, that is basically akin to shooting yourself in the foot. The reasons for that also remain unspecified. It should be kept in sight that there are several fully legitimate reasons for this sort of statement (working for the manufacturer, court cases, personal/business relationships at risk, and so on).

Some people are consequently so focused in on the lack of evidence that they're missing the point he's actually trying to get out; namely, don't lick your brushes with paint on if you can help it. Why?

It is always worth bearing in mind the following issue some very sensible users have raised:-

 Yodhrin wrote:


As has been pointed out, repeatedly - the MSDS says what should be in the paint. Given how many links in the supply chain there are for mass produced products, and how much of what goes on in that chain has to be taken almost on faith, whether what's supposed to be in the paints is the same as what is in the paints is a little less than certain.


Hidden horse steaks are still well in memory for many.

This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2019/07/14 11:42:21



 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




@Ketara - It isn't credible scientific testing if the scientists involved are unwilling to share their materials, methods, and findings for others to double check, regardless of whether it was published or not. Proclamations that someone should change their actions, due to unspecified harm which may or may not befall them if they don't change, is the definition of the term scare-mongering. Some general good advice you're failing to give out in your defense of OP is: Do not engage in scare-mongering. Likewise, do not propagate 'scientific' claims which lack shareable evidence.
   
Made in gb
[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Killer Klaivex







Filthy_Sanchez wrote:
@Ketara - It isn't credible scientific testing if the scientists involved are unwilling to share their materials, methods, and findings for others to double check, regardless of whether it was published or not.


Absurdity. By this logic any classified piece of research isn't 'credible scientific testing'. Disseminating your materials, methods, and findings for other people to doublecheck effectively IS publication,.

Regardless of which, my 'defence of OP' is nothing more than an assembly of the facts; namely:-

1. The user is an established member of the community, known to many, and is highly unlikely to be 'trolling' for fun. The odds are thus consequently weighted that he believes what he is saying (regardless of the veracity of his statement).
2. The user, being aware of what 'scientific testing' usually consists of, claims that such testing has occurred in this instance. The odds are thus good that some form of testing in a laboratory has taken place (on chemical composition given the subject matter)
3. The user is unable, for whatever reason to provide that evidence here and is aware of and acknowledges that as a limitation. There are many legitimate reasons for that being the case. If I settle out of court, for example? That would be a reason. If I'm friends with the wife of the company involved, and don't want to get someone into trouble? I might abstain from providing evidence. If I left the company under a black cloud as a whistleblower and signed an NDA? Again, the same.

That's it. That's the case, in a nutshell. You can take it or leave it. Given the common sense approach to putting chemicals in my mouth anyway, Occam's Razor would, for me, dictate the minor change in behaviour. Cancer is kind of nasty, and wiping my paintbrush on something other than my tongue is not exactly difficult. But your mileage may vary.

It is fine to believe that OP may be mistaken, fooled by something, or just generally an idiot. But the odds here are strongly that he believes what he saying, and that he has seen something convincing enough to give him that belief. Given that he is now communicating that belief under unspecified restrictions, it is up to you to decide whether or not to discount him or not. That's all there is to it, really.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2019/07/14 13:27:00



 
   
Made in ca
Eternally-Stimulated Slaanesh Dreadnought





Rzhev, Kronstaat IV

 greatbigtree wrote:

The residual paint on my brush after washing? Very low in terms of potential toxins I constantly consume as part of my day-to-day living. The benefits of ease of brush shaping outweigh the *potential* risks of health damage.


I used to live in London, ON - by the Thames (no, really) - and can confirm that it is awash in toxins, pollution and general filth.

Lavish is good, though.

I live in Hamilton now and I smoke, so even if this is true - which it isn't - I've got bigger fish to fry. No-one makes it out alive.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/14 13:43:35


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Made in ca
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





London, Ontario

(@ExCom) (I lived in London, ON, Adelaide North, immediately East of Adelaide. Currently Ingersoll, ON. The Thames runs right through the middle. I probably wouldn’t lick a brush rinsed in that. Sorry about the Hamilton thing. )

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/14 14:09:46


 
   
Made in jp
Boosting Black Templar Biker





Ishikawa Prefecture, Japan

Alright, MajorTom, we aren't naming names, but say...

...I use Tamiya paints and citadel paints, and I lick my brush. Will I die of cancer?

   
Made in us
Androgynous Daemon Prince of Slaanesh





Norwalk, Connecticut

Personally, I don’t think MajorTom is trolling. I like MajorTom. He’s been an awesome member of the community and a Mod since I’ve been on the site. But I DO think not being willing to share the information is a bit of BS.

Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.

Manchu wrote:I'm a Catholic. We eat our God.


Due to work, I can usually only ship any sales or trades out on Saturday morning. Please trade/purchase with this in mind.  
   
Made in us
Dominating Dominatrix






 posermcbogus wrote:
Alright, MajorTom, we aren't naming names, but say...

...I use Tamiya paints and citadel paints, and I lick my brush. Will I die of cancer?


You guys think of this in entirely the wrong terms. It's like you have the all or nothing mentality of a diet fad.

"Bacon is potentially a carcinogen says this guy! So never eat Bacon!"

This isn't lick brush = gets cancer.

This is Paint = emulsion which is a unstable chemical compound full of unknown amounts of a whole lot of different things that varies not just color to color (because pigments are different) but bottle to bottle because ultimately people make mistakes, and none of which are meant to be ingested.

People used to use the phrase "eats paint chips" to describe people with mental handicaps.

(Start at 6:00)



This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/07/14 15:46:22



These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

The Nazis were right. It's better to be a Nazi than a fan.

Thank you for getting me on the side of Milo and the Nazis.

 
   
Made in gb
Androgynous Daemon Prince of Slaanesh





Devon, UK

Yes, for the very specific reason that some paint used to contain lead, which, when consumed as a juvenile, cause inhibition of brain development.

You know, something supported by facts, figures, scientific investigation....

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/14 15:49:23


 
   
Made in us
Dominating Dominatrix






 Azreal13 wrote:
Yes, for the very specific reason that some paint used to contain lead, which, when consumed as a juvenile, cause inhibition of brain development.

You know, something supported by facts, figures, scientific investigation....



No, that is not the very specific reason.

Are you aware that almost all paints are produced with mildewcides in them? Or again, that almost all pigments are toxic to some degree? Did you know that because we have shifted from oil based products to water based that paints are mostly an organic compound and they can go bad by developing bacteria in them? When they do actually turn they smell like spoiled milk because of the waste chemicals produced by said bacteria. It's water in there.Things can live in that.

Focusing in on the single hot trigger word "lead" or "chromium" while ignoring EVERYTHING else that is in the paint is insanity.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/14 15:55:23


 
   
Made in gb
Androgynous Daemon Prince of Slaanesh





Devon, UK

https://kidshealth.org/en/parents/lead-poisoning.html

The most common way that kids get lead poisoning is from lead-based paint. This type of paint was used in many U.S. homes until the late 1970s, when the government banned the manufacturing of paint containing lead.





Automatically Appended Next Post:
You really need to stop lecturing people on things when they remember them and you only read about it on Wikipedia.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/07/14 16:39:16


We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

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USA

And there's a recall right now on some rust-oleum cans for containing lead. What's you're point?

   
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Androgynous Daemon Prince of Slaanesh





Devon, UK

That "eating paint chips" as a reference for slow kids is a well known reference to lead paint being used in the 20th century. As anyone who was alive during the 70s onwards will be more than aware of, and that trying to somehow retroactively make it some sort of wide, deeply informed, reference to all the other things that might be in paints now or then is just the sort of thing that somebody that has learned it from the internet rather than being around long enough to understand the reference because of experience is likely to try and argue.

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
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Made in us
Member of the Ethereal Council




USA

 Azreal13 wrote:
That "eating paint chips" as a reference for slow kids is a well known reference to lead paint being used in the 20th century. As anyone who was alive during the 70s onwards will be more than aware of, and that trying to somehow retroactively make it some sort of wide, deeply informed, reference to all the other things that might be in paints now or then is just the sort of thing that somebody that has learned it from the internet rather than being around long enough to understand the reference because of experience is likely to try and argue.


And your point?

I think you're talking right past anything Lance is actually saying and harping on the least important things he posted. Which is basically this entire thread in a nutshell.

   
Made in gb
Androgynous Daemon Prince of Slaanesh





Devon, UK

Not taking past it, just disregarding it as a typical, hair on fire, millennial type response to something that should be so minor as to be inconsequential. Sure there's things in things that might hurt us if used inappropriately. There's thing in things that might hurt us if used as directed sometimes, and sometimes we don't find out until it's too late.

My point was that he was trying to justify using a reference in a context that was inappropriate to try and strengthen his argument, and it's largely a pointless thing to argue over anyway, many of these cancer studies are inconclusive or based on such small studies or small margins as to be meaningless.

Additionally, getting so worked up over other people being stupid is a sure fire way to insanity. Eating tiny amounts of paint is about the least destructive self destructive thing I can conceive of, and anyone who acts surprised that there might be things in the paint they're eating that aren't good for them is probably giving Darwinism a boost.

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

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