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Made in ca
[DCM]
Acolyte of Goodwin






Sunny SoCal

Not exactly sure where this should go but here goes -

I have never been in the habit myself, but many people are in the habit of 'sharpening' the tip of their brushes by putting it in their mouths.

It has recently come to my attention that a well known brand of mini acrylic paint, I am not going to say which, has given a small amount of people cancer. This is due to the trace presence of certain minerals or chemicals such as Cadmium, Cobalt and Chromium in their line. Any of these, but particularly Cadmium, are considered toxic even when ingested at very small amounts. *Edit - this issue has since been fixed, but older stock is still out there in many places.

The point is you don't know what is in your paints. And in today's age with so many alternatives of excellent quality from new, small companies as well as huge ones we have more options than ever. These products are often mixed in places where other lines are made too, and you have no way to know if that equipment was decontaminated properly. Play it safe guys, learn to roll your brush on paper or the back of your hand to get that fine point, you can't count on it that your paints are as non-toxic as advertised (if they even are advertised as such).

I realize many will want specifics, but I am not going to be naming and shaming. The only point I have to give is very simple - don't eat paint. What you do with it is up to you, you are free to believe or disbelieve me, I just thought something should be said if some were doing it but skeptical.


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/12 19:23:46


   
Made in us
Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine





CO

Please add a source, which will indeed include naming the company. Without a source this is no more credible than me saying Space Marines will get a new codex tomorrow.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/11 02:40:32


4500
 
   
Made in nz
[DCM]
Longtime Dakkanaut





Near Jupiter.

Wow thanks for that infomation MajorTom. That's pretty scary.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/07/11 03:04:21


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Made in gb
Deadly Dire Avenger




The Webway

Yeah, i have to be honest, whats the point of this without naming the company? Who is it? Cause i'm not gonna bother to break the habit without more information.

Laugh with the Laughing God. Outplay the Great Enemy. 
   
Made in nz
[DCM]
Longtime Dakkanaut





Near Jupiter.

Well he said his point is that, you dont know whats in any of the paints you get. Which is true, better to be safe then risk it.


As far as im aware all paint is toxic unless it states otherwise on the labeling. And toxic = all sorts of health issues, possibly even the same issues the OP stated ( cancer ). I should note, i am an armchair doctor or what ever you want to call it right now, because i don't really know any thing about this subject.

This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2019/07/11 03:14:52


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This is how aliens communicate in space.
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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut







This just falls under the general public safety warning: Don't drink your paint or paint water.

   
Made in nz
[DCM]
Longtime Dakkanaut





Near Jupiter.

 solkan wrote:
This just falls under the general public safety warning: Don't drink your paint or paint water.




Well to be fair, i have seen alot of youtuber painters doing what the OP is talking about. I always found it a bit unusual that they wouldn't mind risking getting saliva on there models, but what ever.


Edit - well i mean they are putting salivia on it any way to sharpen point, so dont know what im saying.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/07/11 04:20:12


 
   
Made in us
Dominating Dominatrix






I have seen a lot of idiots do a lot of dumb things on a regular basis. That doesn't mean it's safe or anyone should do it.

Don't eat paint. Paint isn't food. Stop putting not food into your mouth.


These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

The Nazis were right. It's better to be a Nazi than a fan.

Thank you for getting me on the side of Milo and the Nazis.

 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

 Lance845 wrote:
Stop putting not food into your mouth.


Don't kink shame me.
   
Made in us
Leader of the Sept






Citation or is didnt happen.
Honestly, if you are not gonna tell, why tell people at all?

5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
 
   
Made in us
Member of the Ethereal Council




USA

I feel like this would be something people would just know not to do after the Radium Girls. Sure it's not radium in there, but I just assumed people were smart enough to not put manufactured chemicals or anything that touches them, in their mouths. Half the time the company selling the stuff to the company that sold the stuff to the company that sold it to you doesn't even know whats in their products, or even took the time to ask.

   
Made in us
Ship's Officer





LA

I'd guess it'd be vallejo, cause I heard about the cadmium thing before. Tbh even though Citadel paints are listed as non toxic on the website the actual pots don't say the same. They just say ASTM compliant, so whatever.

The bigger question for me is, how bad is it to get paint on your hands. Because your skin absorbs what it comes in contact with.

 
   
Made in us
Dominating Dominatrix






 Thargrim wrote:
I'd guess it'd be vallejo, cause I heard about the cadmium thing before. Tbh even though Citadel paints are listed as non toxic on the website the actual pots don't say the same. They just say ASTM compliant, so whatever.

The bigger question for me is, how bad is it to get paint on your hands. Because your skin absorbs what it comes in contact with.


As an emulsion, the bulk of all the chemicals in the paint as suspended in a semi stable compound that should not be absorbing into your skin. The latex and acrylic in the water base along with any bonding agents in the body should keep it all pretty safely on the outside. You need to actually ingest it to be a problem. It's not like harsher paints where the base is a harsher chemical which is itself something to avoid skin contact with. Just don't eat it.


These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

The Nazis were right. It's better to be a Nazi than a fan.

Thank you for getting me on the side of Milo and the Nazis.

 
   
Made in us
Ship's Officer





LA

That's good, i've never done the brush licking thing but I did mistake my paint water for my mixed drink before. I heard vallejo started removing cadmium in their paints going forward, not sure about the others though.

 
   
Made in de
Battlefield Tourist






Nuremberg

I don't put my brushes in my mouth, never got in the habit of that. I use my fingers to get a point.

But I am pretty interested in this anyway. What kind of cancer did these people get? Did they have any other risk factors for that cancer? How long were they painting?

I find it unlikely the cancer was caused from this source alone.

   
Made in gb
Council of 13 Runner Up






 MajorTom11 wrote:


It has recently come to my attention that a well known brand of mini acrylic paint, I am not going to say which, has given several people cancer. This is due to the trace presence of certain minerals or chemicals such as Cadmium, Cobalt and Chromium in their line. Any of these, but particularly Cadmium, are considered toxic even when ingested at very small amounts.




As in, the definitive, sole cause of Cancer? Yeah? From a reputable medical source, peer reviewed, and definitely not The Man In The Pub?

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives?Why not join us?

 
   
Made in gb
Savage Khorne Berserker Biker




Southampton, UK

Vallejo used to have cadmium in some of their paints. Apparently they eliminated it about 5 years ago, but older bottles will have still been in the supply chain for some time after that.
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Agile Revenant Titan





London, UK

As someone who licks their brushes quite frequently, I'll need more than just a post saying this for me to stop, I don't get the point I want from rolling the bristles on paper or using my finger, plus it dries out the hairs.

Colour me skeptical until there are some sources.

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Made in nz
[DCM]
Longtime Dakkanaut





Near Jupiter.

I use the top of my left hand to do this. By the end of each session my hand looks pretty ridiculous.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/07/11 09:42:47


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This is how aliens communicate in space.
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Made in us
Ultramarine Master with Gauntlets of Macragge





Upstate, New York

I was always under the impression that licking brushes was something you never should have been doing from the start. Than again, I’m old enough to have worked with actual lead miniatures, so the hobby =/= mouth bit is something I’ve been doing for a while now.

Ultramarines, 3rd Co. and friends, 12.5K+ Slowly growing 2Kish
Nevelon's Workbench: Ultramarines, Saim-Hann and other assorted oddities
 
   
Made in nl
Pulsating Possessed Space Marine of Slaanesh






Did Reginald Kingsbury 3rd get cancer?

   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle






Well this thread seems a little pointless (ha! ) right now...

"Name your sources"
"SHUT UP SAXTON! I'M AN INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST. I DON'T NEED TO NAME SOURCES!"



A GW fan walks into a bar, buys the same drink as yesterday but pays more.

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Made in gb
Mekboy Hammerin' Somethin'





Dorset, England

Cadmium and hexavalent chromium are both pretty horrible substances, however the grace period for the REACH regulations in Europe has now ended so most if not all paint manufacturers selling in Europe should have taken these substances out of their paint.

Still better to stay safe an not lick your brushes as you recommend!
   
Made in ca
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





London, Ontario

As a semi-regular smoker, occasional welder, campfire enthusiast and worker in dusty / smoky / otherwise borderline toxic environments...

They haven't got me yet.
   
Made in au
Anti-Armour Swiss Guard






Newcastle, OZ

I'm well aware of the risks from cadmium and chromium.
I'm also old enough to have seen "The Radium girls" before I started painting minis - which fortunately for me, was as an adult. It was also still back in the "lead minis" days, so like several others, not putting non-food in my mouth isn't something I have to think about.

My dad was an electroplater. Exposure to hexavalent chromium was a daily hazard. It pushes cigarette smoking so far down the list of "lung cancer" causes that it may as well not be there (it'll still give you emphysema, but the cancer risks from it become 'inconclusive').



I'm 50.
Old enough to know better, young enough to not give a ****.

That is not dead which can eternal lie ...

... and yet, with strange aeons, even death may die.
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





LOL. I am still here. My "issue" is hereditary and genetic.. yaa!

Still yeah. I licked brushes. I used Dragon paint (isocyanate based paint in the late 80s and early 90s.. it was "water based" too.. good god, all those isocyanates. I painted cars too.. ).

I also burned old citadel plastic till it rained a black hydrocarbon rain in my bedroom. I melted led in my middle school shop class. Also welded in the same class.

Also was a metal fabricator for a while. Oh god those fumes. Welders take a smoke break to breath "cleaner" air. A cigarette (in fact one session with cast iron was like a hundred packs kind of damage) is way less harmful the fumes we huffed while welding cast iron.

We all get old, we all die. Here is a hint too for the uninformed. We all have cancer. Every single one of us. My daughter does, so does my son at 1 year old. What matters is if our body is cleaning it up or failing to do so. When we "get cancer" it means our body has failed to deal with it. But otherwise, every day our body's natural systems clean up the mess that DNA Replication causes.

Just as every single male alive has cancer in his Prostate. Sorry guys.. it's 100%. What matters is if it is being handled or not. When it isn't.. death by prostate cancer is ugly.

Consummate 8th Edition Hater.  
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




This, along with a lot of other sensationalist media, is nonsense. The amount of cadmium containing paint one would have to ingest in order to affect the body in any measurable way is incredibly high. Like drinking a pot of paint a day high.

You have the information of the world at your fingertips. As a very friendly suggestion, please do some basic research before posting things like this.

Here's a paper on Cadmium toxicity which talks specifically about ingestion. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1578573/
   
Made in us
Member of the Ethereal Council




USA

Filthy_Sanchez wrote:
Here's a paper on Cadmium toxicity which talks specifically about ingestion. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1578573/


Did you even read it? For context, the absorption of mercury through the digestive system is only a few percentage points too. Are you going to advocate people consume mercury with nary a care?

Cadmium, on the one hand, is example for an industrially used substance with negative long-time effects on human health.


I don't think anyone has said you're going to drop dead at the drop of a hat, but if you make a habit of ingesting chemicals for years (as part of a hobby perhaps) you're risking kidney damage, bone damage, reproductive damage, and maybe cancer nevermind that you're ignoring the point that you don't know what is in paint. The people who made the paint probably don't even know. Supply chains are a maze. It's so big it's almost impossible to confirm the contents of the product, or where they came from and there's already enough cadmium slipping into the water table from lackluster water laws as is.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/12 03:46:10


   
Made in us
Dominating Dominatrix






Its disappointing that any grown adults with access to a computer would even need to be told to not eat paint.


These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

The Nazis were right. It's better to be a Nazi than a fan.

Thank you for getting me on the side of Milo and the Nazis.

 
   
Made in us
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets






A Protoss colony world

Who the hell puts their paintbrush in their mouth?

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