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Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




Germany

Lord Kragan wrote:
 Mentlegen324 wrote:
 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
They routinely blatantly lie straight to the face of their entire fanbase.


Such as?


Cursed city, to begin with? That's the first example I can think of.


Would you also consider Kill Team 40K?


Re-release old set. Adjust price by 20%. Give less content. Tell NO ONE there is less stuff. Repeatedly flat out lie about that on social media. Delete posts.

https://youtu.be/j23EzsHyS80

Games Workshop are not your friends. They are not a small dev trying their best. They are a multibillion dollar company making calculated decisions about how many costs they can cut, how lazy they can be about relases, and how much they can paywall. They will do it again. Stop giving them money for this. 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

Lord Kragan wrote:
 Mentlegen324 wrote:
 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
They routinely blatantly lie straight to the face of their entire fanbase.


Such as?


Cursed city, to begin with? That's the first example I can think of.


Far as we can tell from their last shareholders update CC suffered a lack of sufficient stock to meet demand. However considering everything that surrounded its release its clear that whatever happened it was not a planned nor calculated move on GW's part.

It's the same as how GW pushed a lot of Dominion on retailers based on CC and Indomitus sales and then some ended up with way more stock than they needed. It wasn't a calculated bad move on GW's part, it was the market reacting in ways GW didn't predict it would

CC is a mistake and it is a poor move that GW didn't upfront say what went wrong and such. And I say that as someone who wanted it and didn't get it because I didn't have the money at the time and assumed it would come back into print like Black Fortress did. It might still do, but we don't know for sure. Certainly something (or several things) went wrong.



GW are not perfect. I just feel we don't need to invent or guess or suppose worse (nor better) until we see it.

A Blog in Miniature

The Swarm Arises

Do you ever notice, sometimes, there's an extra post? 
   
Made in be
Longtime Dakkanaut





Lord Kragan wrote:
 Mentlegen324 wrote:
 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
They routinely blatantly lie straight to the face of their entire fanbase.


Such as?


Cursed city, to begin with? That's the first example I can think of.


You mean, the game where they said on Twitter that it was mistakenly advertised as being a not limited product on their facebook page ? Post that was removed after that ?

Guess you can say it's a lie.

But that's a far stretch to say it's "routinely". Well, must be on the same line than "GW salaries are close to poverty wages".
   
Made in es
Brutal Black Orc




Barcelona, Spain

Sarouan wrote:
Lord Kragan wrote:
 Mentlegen324 wrote:
 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
They routinely blatantly lie straight to the face of their entire fanbase.


Such as?


Cursed city, to begin with? That's the first example I can think of.

Guess you can say it's a lie.


Well, yes. If you say something and then it turns it's another thing, and you know it's going to be the case but keep mum until it's too late... that's a lie. You can try and clean the mess caused by your lie, and it could have been the case that there was no malice. It's still a lie.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/30 12:38:07


 
   
Made in fr
Stalwart Tribune





 kirotheavenger wrote:

The policy used to be "we're cool with fan animations provided you don't make money".
Between Patreon and potentially Youtube monetization, TTS is definitely not in the "don't make money" category, though. I'm not a lawyer, but I imagine it'd be hard to pass it all under fair use if it's someone's main source of income (I don't know if it actually is, but it looks like it).

Maybe GW would have agreed to sell a license to the TTS team, but we'll never know if they don't even ask...
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




Germany

...except before Cursed City went on sale, GW clarified multiple times through different communication channels that Cursed City is going to be a permanent part of the range that's going to be in production for several years going forward, like Blackstone Fortress.

And then when it actually went on sale and it turned out to be a one-and-done limited box, they then proceeded to badly try and cover up their tracks and delete all mentions of them saying it's a permanent thing, trying to act like they always said it's a limited box. If that's not a blatant lie I don't know what could possibly count as one, literally selling empty boxes?

Games Workshop are not your friends. They are not a small dev trying their best. They are a multibillion dollar company making calculated decisions about how many costs they can cut, how lazy they can be about relases, and how much they can paywall. They will do it again. Stop giving them money for this. 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Well I'm excited to see the fallout from all of this. All over Youtube people are claiming GW is burning itself to the ground and losing the entirety of its fanbase because of the animations thing, I want to see if this is true. Will their next financial report tell us the company is in ruins or will they be carrying on with business as usual and sales as usual?

I never watched any of these 40K cartoons, and you never really hear about them in outside discussions, so it's hard to gauge just how big a part of the overall Warhammer community is being enraged right now.
   
Made in be
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Tiennos wrote:
 kirotheavenger wrote:

The policy used to be "we're cool with fan animations provided you don't make money".
Between Patreon and potentially Youtube monetization, TTS is definitely not in the "don't make money" category, though. I'm not a lawyer, but I imagine it'd be hard to pass it all under fair use if it's someone's main source of income (I don't know if it actually is, but it looks like it).


Yes, that was one of his fears quoted in the video : the fact he earns money from it.
   
Made in si
Ravenous Beast Form







 Overread wrote:
 lord_blackfang wrote:
 Overread wrote:
We've seen them not issue CD claims on Kickstarters until after the KS has funded


You do understand that this is worse, right?


How is it worse?


Seems worse to me to tell an artist they aren't allowed to deliver after they've already been paid for it.

Posters on ignore list: 34

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Made in us
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot





 frankelee wrote:
Well I'm excited to see the fallout from all of this. All over Youtube people are claiming GW is burning itself to the ground and losing the entirety of its fanbase because of the animations thing, I want to see if this is true. Will their next financial report tell us the company is in ruins or will they be carrying on with business as usual and sales as usual?

I never watched any of these 40K cartoons, and you never really hear about them in outside discussions, so it's hard to gauge just how big a part of the overall Warhammer community is being enraged right now.

Lol 8th 40k showed GW barely need to do anything to get people eating out of their hands. They'll probably offer Alfa a tour around Warhammer World or something and everybody will call them the bestist company ever again.

When the new Black Templar stuff is revealed 90% of people will have forgotten all about it. Like the price hike immediately before Indomitus was revealled.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/30 12:46:07


 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Lord Kragan wrote:
 Mentlegen324 wrote:
 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
They routinely blatantly lie straight to the face of their entire fanbase.


Such as?


Cursed city, to begin with? That's the first example I can think of.


Would you also consider Kill Team 40K?


Re-release old set. Adjust price by 20%. Give less content. Tell NO ONE there is less stuff. Repeatedly flat out lie about that on social media. Delete posts.

https://youtu.be/j23EzsHyS80


Your best example of how they "routinely blatantly lie " was them mistakenly using some old photos in a preview article (the article also calls them "Three new Killzone expansion sets" and doesn't even hint they're a re-release of the previous box, beyond those pictures), an article which at some point got updated to show the photos of the proper version?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/30 12:46:59


 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

 lord_blackfang wrote:
 Overread wrote:
 lord_blackfang wrote:
 Overread wrote:
We've seen them not issue CD claims on Kickstarters until after the KS has funded


You do understand that this is worse, right?


How is it worse?


Seems worse to me to tell an artist they aren't allowed to deliver after they've already been paid for it.


At the same time most of the KS appear to have been running when GW started taking these actions; if they brought legal against the KS whlist they were running the KS run the risk of losing funding time and ending up with significantly less money than if they were allowed to complete. As the message I noted earlier, GW are also willing to generally work with the creator to ensure works are not infringing and to re-assess them when they are changed. The content creator has the option to rework things.

It's not ideal, but at the very least they've got options on the table and their campaign has been allowed to complete. Keeping in mind many of these might not be well advertised until they start so GW might have no reason to notice them until they appear on KS itself - arguably a touch late.

A Blog in Miniature

The Swarm Arises

Do you ever notice, sometimes, there's an extra post? 
   
Made in be
Longtime Dakkanaut





 frankelee wrote:
Well I'm excited to see the fallout from all of this. All over Youtube people are claiming GW is burning itself to the ground and losing the entirety of its fanbase because of the animations thing, I want to see if this is true. Will their next financial report tell us the company is in ruins or will they be carrying on with business as usual and sales as usual?

I never watched any of these 40K cartoons, and you never really hear about them in outside discussions, so it's hard to gauge just how big a part of the overall Warhammer community is being enraged right now.


I think it's more a question about the (still relatively) recent update and people who are concerned not knowing what to do.

I do expect it will calm down after a bit, once all those videos made by people about the change and its possible implications become less numerous.

Rest will depend on what GW actually do with true cease and desist letters, if they do. Like Overread, I'd rather wait and see what the future really brings than trying to make doom prophecies.
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Even Valrak's had enough:


Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Halifax

I'm still more worried about Tabletop Simulator, given how much GW stuff is out there for it. Not that I play GW games on there, but it's currently the only place people can play my game so I'm ever-so-slightly paranoid.

   
Made in be
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Overread wrote:
 lord_blackfang wrote:
 Overread wrote:
 lord_blackfang wrote:
 Overread wrote:
We've seen them not issue CD claims on Kickstarters until after the KS has funded


You do understand that this is worse, right?


How is it worse?


Seems worse to me to tell an artist they aren't allowed to deliver after they've already been paid for it.


At the same time most of the KS appear to have been running when GW started taking these actions; if they brought legal against the KS whlist they were running the KS run the risk of losing funding time and ending up with significantly less money than if they were allowed to complete. As the message I noted earlier, GW are also willing to generally work with the creator to ensure works are not infringing and to re-assess them when they are changed. The content creator has the option to rework things.

It's not ideal, but at the very least they've got options on the table and their campaign has been allowed to complete. Keeping in mind many of these might not be well advertised until they start so GW might have no reason to notice them until they appear on KS itself - arguably a touch late.


Also...it should be good to notice that the creator of a KS project has the possibility to contact GW before the project itself is launched, to see if there could be any possible trouble with some of the designs that he's aware of.

The "not nighthaunt" KS creator, for example, knew very well what he was doing by making certain concepts, including the markers, to the point he advertised as such on this forum. So you can't say they weren't totally expecting what could happen in the end.

Let's be honest here : main reason why people don't do that is mostly because they're fully aware of what they're doing and want to be close on the design on purpose to reach more backers - and don't want to catch GW's attention too easily by contacting them first (rest is assuming GW will refuse anyway, even though we have some proofs here that's actually not always the case, far from it).
   
Made in de
Dakka Veteran



Bamberg / Erlangen


Not Online!!! wrote:

The fact that they now Act on it , Attacking creations that would in differing countries Fall under fair use Type of deals , abusing the Broken YouTube Copyright system , no i don't think so .
Its just one Step back to old gw at a time

That is not a true report of events and you know it. Unless by "attacking" you mean that GW offered several content creators, who were making a living with GW's intellectual property, to instead work officially for GW. At least one instance where even after refusing the offer the content creator was allowed to continue with 40k animations. Just not taking money for it. Another instance where the content creator was abused online by the oh so caring community to the point where he stopped animation altogether.

 kirotheavenger wrote:
Shortly before implementing that change to their policy they shut down several well known animators, such as Astartes and SODAZ.
So it's easy to see why a change is being perceived.

Again. See above. "Shut down" = offering a job, letting people continue if they refuse. SODAZ was shut down by the gakky online community. Nobody to blame but the anonymous internet here.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/30 15:44:00


Imperial Guard Space Marines
 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





a_typical_hero wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

The fact that they now Act on it , Attacking creations that would in differing countries Fall under fair use Type of deals , abusing the Broken YouTube Copyright system , no i don't think so .
Its just one Step back to old gw at a time

That is not a true report of events and you know it. Unless by "attacking" you mean that GW offered several content creators, who were making a living with GW's intellectual property, to instead work officially for GW. At least one instance where even after refusing the offer the content creator was allowed to continue with 40k animations. Just not taking money for it. Another instance where the content creator was abused online by the oh so caring community to the point where he stopped animation altogether.



We even have one of the animators outright saying GW did nothing wrong with the situation. The creator of "The Last Church" said GW were fine and even praised them:

Hey everyone! I’d like to let you all know, from the team and myself, that the release of The Last Church has been a dream come true. The outpour of support from the community has been remarkable and we can never express how wonderful an experience this was for us.

Being now conscious of the fact that we were acting beyond our rights when we made this film and that we used an IP (and story!) that wasn’t ours to use, I can’t help but feel I’m obligated to take our animation down. .

But fret not! The good folks at Games Workshop have reached out to us and offered the possibility of collaboration on future projects. I’m sure you all understand how exciting that prospect is for us and how eager we are to pursue this opportunity. Although the cooperative process with GW has only just begun, I believe it may be the start of an exciting future for our team and the content we produce. We’ll make sure to keep you all posted!

I would like to emphasize that we were not just given a C&D and told to pack it up. GW very graciously took the time to meet with us, tell us how much they enjoyed our adaptation of The Last Church and explain how many liberties we really took with our film. They acted with the utmost kindness and consideration. (And Warhammer Animation offered us the chance to collaborate! That’s pretty awesome.) In fact, it’s possible that The Last Church may one day find a new home in GW’s media library. But that’s for the future to decide. What comes next can’t yet be said but rest assured we’ll make something great.

To all those who subscribed to our Patreon: thank you. Your support means the world to us and demonstrates the very real demand for the sort of films our team can create. The realization that so many were so excited to see more from us drives us to improve our skills and continue as a team. That being said, I’ll shut down the Patreon immediately.

Tony, Aaron and I can never truly express what this project meant to us. That meaning was illimitably amplified by the thousands of comments and messages we received in support. Thank you all. With some good grace and a pinch of fortune, we’ll be back with more films for you soon!

V/R, Tyber Portoghese


https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/mrpeqb/the_last_church_animation_has_been_deleted/guojda1/

Yet people are still saying "GW is Forcing animators!".

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/30 13:05:34


 
   
Made in si
Ravenous Beast Form







Hey guys GW invited us over and told us this belongs to them and we took it down of our own free will!

Astounding that after years of #MeToo some people still don't understand you don't need to physically smack someone around to abuse your power over them.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/07/30 13:15:18


Posters on ignore list: 34

40k Potica Edition - 40k patch with reactions, suppression and all that good stuff. Feedback thread here.

Gangs of Nu Ork - Necromunda / Gorkamorka expansion supporting all faction. Feedback thread here
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Hey guys GW invited us over and told us this belongs to them and we took it down of our own free will!
+

Well Warhammer does belong to GW

A Blog in Miniature

The Swarm Arises

Do you ever notice, sometimes, there's an extra post? 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





 lord_blackfang wrote:
Hey guys GW invited us over and told us this belongs to them and we took it down of our own free will!


This has to be one of the most absurd takes of this whole situation I've seen yet.

Infringing animator says GW acted perfectly reasonably, liked their work and offered them a collaboration (which they seemingly didn't take yet), didn't C&D them or threaten them or do anything along those lines with them taking their animations down themselves, with the animator even went so far as to praise GW for how they handled things? "They must have been forced to say that, they're lying!".

It really does seem like some people will try and find any excuse to try and potray GW as evil.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/30 13:22:01


 
   
Made in gb
Lit By the Flames of Prospero






For the people who are saying "Why didn't the TTS crew just speak to GW", some points.
1 - GW is notorious for being bad with communications, there isn't even a guarantee that GW would reply at all.
2 - Have you watched TTS? It's entirely based on making fun of 40k, GW and hobbyists. Hardly the brand friendly thing GW is looking for as partners.
3 - Did you watch Alfa's video? He specifically outlines his fears and reasons why he doesn't want to open a dialogue with GW.

Likewise everyone saying "GW is within their rights", maybe they are but nobody is testing the theory because its too much to put on the line. It also doesn't not make the IP rule changes/clarifications that directly contributed to the aura of uncertainty a bad thing.

And again, I've been called a GW shill/simp very recently on Dakka for not hating GW hard enough. Its called having an opinion and being open to change or new information.
   
Made in be
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Mentlegen324 wrote:

Yet people are still saying "GW is Forcing animators!".


To some, offering a job to work for a corporation is oppression.

On the Last Church's case, well...it's true that them saying that :

Being now conscious of the fact that we were acting beyond our rights when we made this film and that we used an IP (and story!) that wasn’t ours to use, I can’t help but feel I’m obligated to take our animation down. .


...is a bit odd but if people followed the myth "GW fan animations are fine as long as you don't make money from it" for such a long time, why not this justification as well.

Reactions are varied too on the reddit about that. Some are even going to the point of saying the creator was doing this on purpose to catch GW's attention and took advantage of the patreon backers meanwhile ? And I thought this topic was wild enough.


Anyway, like Overread said, the field of fan animations is far from being as "disinterested" than before, with all these patreon accounts.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Halifax

It doesn't help that there's an infestation of idiots that need to scream that GW is evil, and probably using 5G signals to fluoridate their thetans. It increases the noise part of the noise: signal ratio...

   
Made in be
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Gert wrote:
For the people who are saying "Why didn't the TTS crew just speak to GW", some points.
1 - GW is notorious for being bad with communications, there isn't even a guarantee that GW would reply at all.
2 - Have you watched TTS? It's entirely based on making fun of 40k, GW and hobbyists. Hardly the brand friendly thing GW is looking for as partners.
3 - Did you watch Alfa's video? He specifically outlines his fears and reasons why he doesn't want to open a dialogue with GW.

Likewise everyone saying "GW is within their rights", maybe they are but nobody is testing the theory because its too much to put on the line. It also doesn't not make the IP rule changes/clarifications that directly contributed to the aura of uncertainty a bad thing.


1. It's assuming, you don't know if you don't try.
2. It's assuming, you don't know if you don't try.
3. Yes, it's all about his fears. Which is why he didn't try : he assumed it was a lost cause without even trying.

The "not nighthaunt" ks project creator also assumed it could go worst. Then he got to talk with GW, and it wasn't as bad as he thought it could be. He had to change a few things, sure...but he still can do his project.

So what Alfa does really have to lose by simply asking GW ? If GW says "no", he already put his channel on hiatus anyway.
   
Made in ie
Been Around the Block



Dublin, Ireland

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Even Valrak's had enough:



When someone makes an open 'letter', why can't they just do that, rather than a rambling, plodding monologue that's too bloody long and painful to listen to?
Even a transcript in the comments so I can spend a lot lees time getting to their point.
   
Made in us
Infiltrating Broodlord




Lake County, Illinois

"what Alfa does really have to lose by simply asking GW ?"

Well, he's lose all the attention this is getting. Maybe they wanted to move on anyway and this in a convenient excuse that gets them a lot of attention and sympathy and hopefully a big audience for their next project.
   
Made in us
Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces






Southeastern PA, USA

grahamdbailey wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Even Valrak's had enough:



When someone makes an open 'letter', why can't they just do that, rather than a rambling, plodding monologue that's too bloody long and painful to listen to?
Even a transcript in the comments so I can spend a lot lees time getting to their point.


I dunno man. That's Valrak we're talking about. THE Valrak. That video is surely a clarion call that will rally DOZENS of supporters worldwide.

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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 lord_blackfang wrote:

Astounding that after years of #MeToo some people still don't understand you don't need to physically smack someone around to abuse your power over them.


So far we've had the current situation compared to an active shooter scenario, and the long-standing exploitation, sexual, physical and emotional abuse of women. Anybody else think things are maybe just a little bit hyperbolic here?
   
Made in us
Infiltrating Broodlord




Lake County, Illinois

Hyperbolic? More like delusional.
   
 
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