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 Pacific wrote:
[
It's been done.. if you want this kind of thing, just check out Mantic's Forge Fathers range

Mantic's flat-headed fantasy dwarfs with extra laser-gun bits? Not exactly what I envisaged, meself.

Malika: get started! Get started!

That was the original range Vermis, but it has come on quite a bit since then.

The Deadzone stuff in particular is awesome, with Exo Armour-esque guys and dwarves in overalls! (Which are painted orange of course..)

Yep, nowadays the Forge Fathers range has a pretty decent share of nice models.

 Pacific wrote:
That was the original range Vermis, but it has come on quite a bit since then.

Mmmyeah.

The Deadzone stuff in particular is awesome, with Exo Armour-esque guys and dwarves in overalls! (Which are painted orange of course..)

The Deadzone stuff is generally high quality and I think marks a turning point from earlier KoW... eccentricities. But when I lament the loss of Demiurg as squ... er... short space miners, that doesn't mean I have a hankering for fantasy Dwarfs in Spaaace, with stony statue-looking powered suits (6 for £10? That's not too shab... er, harrumph! What I meant to say was...), hammers hammers hammers, and beards agogo. (The brokkrs seem to have tech that's advanced to the Gilette/Wilkinson Sword level, but I dunno if that's a fair trade for the 4-foot Arnie look. And oh facepalm, they had to work the word 'huscarl' in there, didn't they...)

In other words, I completely understand Jervis' justifications for squatting the squats.

 Malika2 wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
No, "Squats".

I have no idea what "Demiurg" are, but they sound awful and bland. Like a cheap metal cover band.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Demiurg

They also have some models for Battlefleet Gothic:

Ain't no one want to see the squats back as much as me, but let's stay on topic.

 Vermis wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
That was the original range Vermis, but it has come on quite a bit since then.

Mmmyeah.

You do realise, of course, that you are responding to him saying models after the initial wave are better by posting a picture to a box from the initial wave right?

What's the projected date for thus release? Summer, or earlier?

 The Shadow wrote:
What's the projected date for thus release? Summer, or earlier?

I think people were saying late May.

Aside from all our bellyaches about round bases and rule changes, I am enthusiastic for a new range of minis for kit-bashing porpoises. They'll be too expensive for many wallets no doubt, but pretty.

You leave the poor Porpoises alone!

Posting this has been long overdue, but I've never been one to actively partake in forum discussion due to time constraints more than anything. That being said I have a little information on 9th edition, information that will probably create more questions than it actually answers, but info which I hope can address some of the rumours about 9th itself.

One of the scariest rumours about 9th is undoubted that the mini ranges we know and love will be squatted, and this is correct, to an extent. The ranges will be getting completely revamped, some units will disappear into nothingness, new units will arise in wake of their fall and a select few may just survive the End Times. The essence of these lost unit, and the essence of warhammer itself will be kept alive in these new ranges however, you'll be able to see recognisable units from Oldhammer in Newhammer. One of the key driving motivators behind reducing the range is the cost of carrying such vast ranges, Warhammer in it's current state is not selling well enough to justify the cost, so compressing the range into factions will bare similar styles in order to save shelf space and hence the game some much needed room to breathe was seen as the way forward. This will also help to reduce the redundancy of similar unit types in the same army. Lets take Orcs and Goblins for example; You have Squig Herds, Squig Hoppers and Bosses on even bigger squigs all in one army. Three units all very similar in concept. Wouldn't it more sense from a business point of view to combine these three unit into one unit of let's say; Gobbos on Great Cave Squigs in order to remove redundancy and save shelf space? Absolutely and that's the sort of thing we'll be seeing in the future, a unit familiar in concept that combines several traditional ideas into one. In general though, the change to the ranges will take the opportunity to further entrench the IP, the units that survive the ET will be units that "define" their armies, things like common goblins will go the way of the squat. (Although will still be useable as I illustrate later.)

That being said, miniatures, and armies in general, will be taking forth new aesthetic styles due to the emergence of combined factions. New units for these factions will combine the look of all the current armies that make up that faction, and mood it into one new defining aesthetic that wouldn't look completely out of place in Oldhammer, yet still easily definable as something new. For a few of the future factions, we've already begun to see the emergence of this new look into the ranges in recent releases. With this change, you can also expect a evolution on the way Warhammer units look. The game will shift towards smaller elite types more in style with units like the Putrid Blightkings. From what I understood new models of say; Chaos Warriors and Black Orcs for example would become larger on an individual sense, but smaller as a unit where you might have only 5 models in the unit. This allows you too buy of box of say 20 goblins and still have that box represent a horde.

As armies go, your models will still be available in some form, just not the form you now recognise. There's no reason you can't use your old Human models to represent the new Human models in game. As for rebasing your models, will you have to rebase them? Well as I understood it, yes and no. From what I gathered the game was moving to a skirmish game format with options for models to rank up in slot-trays, so technically if you always kept your models in appropriately sized movement trays you be able to play with your old square based models, you just wouldn't be able to skirmish them. The option to rank up or skirmish, always he's to make the game scalable, and as such more open to beginners.

I hope that answers a few questions for you all.

Will we still be able to buy 20mm square bases if this is true?

Lord Castellan wrote:
Will we still be able to buy 20mm square bases if this is true?

I'm sure the many many companies who supply bases will still sell them, yes.

WhispererofTruth wrote:
From what I understood new models of say; Chaos Warriors and Black Orcs for example would become larger on an individual sense, but smaller but smaller as a unit where you might have only 5 models in the unit. This allows you too buy of box of say 20 goblins and still have that box represent a horde.

So... a unit of 5 Black Orcs will cost 30 odd quid now?

Yay.

 Flashman wrote:

WhispererofTruth wrote:
From what I understood new models of say; Chaos Warriors and Black Orcs for example would become larger on an individual sense, but smaller but smaller as a unit where you might have only 5 models in the unit. This allows you too buy of box of say 20 goblins and still have that box represent a horde.

So... a unit of 5 Black Orcs will cost 30 odd quid now?

Yay.

I haven't been able to say this in a while but...This is GREAT NEWS!

 Accolade wrote:

 Flashman wrote:

WhispererofTruth wrote:
From what I understood new models of say; Chaos Warriors and Black Orcs for example would become larger on an individual sense, but smaller but smaller as a unit where you might have only 5 models in the unit. This allows you too buy of box of say 20 goblins and still have that box represent a horde.

So... a unit of 5 Black Orcs will cost 30 odd quid now?

Yay.

I haven't been able to say this in a while but...This is GREAT NEWS!

To be honest, as I've been saying in the other thread in Discussions, I would greatly prefer a low model count.

I just don't want to pay more for it!

Lord Castellan wrote:
Will we still be able to buy 20mm square bases if this is true?

From GW? Doubt it.

 Flashman wrote:

 Accolade wrote:

 Flashman wrote:

WhispererofTruth wrote:
From what I understood new models of say; Chaos Warriors and Black Orcs for example would become larger on an individual sense, but smaller but smaller as a unit where you might have only 5 models in the unit. This allows you too buy of box of say 20 goblins and still have that box represent a horde.

So... a unit of 5 Black Orcs will cost 30 odd quid now?

Yay.

I haven't been able to say this in a while but...This is GREAT NEWS!

To be honest, as I've been saying in the other thread in Discussions, I would greatly prefer a low model count.

I just don't want to pay more for it!

Well you're most likely right about it- these new kits will probably be Dire Avengers all over again. You'll see that box of five super-Black Orcs for $40, only to realize that was the price of the old ten-orc box.

In GW's mind, they've solved the problem by dropping the game to a much smaller size, reminiscent of WM-H, so units will have more value in the game itself. But all it will take a is an edition or two of the typical GW rules bloat and we'll be back to the same problem.

I have an old supplement from GW called "Warhammer Skirmish". I think it was from somewhere around 2001/2.
it allowed - shock horror - skirmish on square bases. It was full of great scenarios. I have a feeling it was developed by GW US. (Not got it to hand as I type - sorry).

Why all of a sudden do people think it's impossible to move a single mini around a board with a square base.

 Gimgamgoo wrote:
Why all of a sudden do people think it's impossible to move a single mini around a board with a square base.

Not impossible, but multiple base to base contact is easier with round bases

Or it's a case of doing "half fixes" that don't put down a hard enough stance create a cogent product. If GW is gonna fix Fantasy, then fix Fantasy. Delete what's necessary, change the rules accordingly alone with modeling requirements.

In an age filled with competing games that have hard and fast rules on modeling, basing, etc. and are succeeding, then GW should get with the program. Their wishy-washy stance is what's gonna be the final do in otherwise. Or rather let me put it this way, if I can play a game of anything else across the country and play it without any necessary questions on modeling, base sizes, army composition, or "how we want to play it," then that's GW's goal. Because the casual players can always modify it towards their groups taste (or play an older version). The game player and competitive gamer need the solid rules foundation for proper game design.

Games like Malifaux and Warmachine, that have a lot of pulse and aura effects, would not work if you said X" away from their base and the basing allowed for either square or circle bases. That's just one instance where it would be a loss. I'm sure there are more.

 Flashman wrote:

WhispererofTruth wrote:
From what I understood new models of say; Chaos Warriors and Black Orcs for example would become larger on an individual sense, but smaller but smaller as a unit where you might have only 5 models in the unit. This allows you too buy of box of say 20 goblins and still have that box represent a horde.

So... a unit of 5 Black Orcs will cost 30 odd quid now?

Yay.

But those 5 Black orcs will come with special 35mm bases so they are kind of special and well worth the 50% gauge man!
In one stroke of genious GW will render your collections useless on the new edition. My 25 Black orcs in square bases will be to much so I will trash 20 and rebase 5... Maybe they will merge black Orcs with Orcs and savage orcs in a vanilla orc regiment. Brilliant.

Yes this make sense.

Hmmm this kinda makes sesnse I think you can see the start of it in the we eternal guard looking like high elf spearmen with bling.

SeanDrake wrote:
Hmmm this kinda makes sense I think you can see the start of it in the we eternal guard looking like high elf spearmen with bling.

Have you seen the Eternal Guard?

The closest High Elf unit they look like is the Sisters of Avelorn, who were made to look more like Wood Elves than High Elves.

 TheKbob wrote:
Or it's a case of doing "half fixes" that don't put down a hard enough stance create a cogent product. If GW is gonna fix Fantasy, then fix Fantasy. Delete what's necessary, change the rules accordingly alone with modeling requirements.

I'm pretty sure that's precisely what GW is doing, based on the rumors.

Lord Castellan wrote:
Will we still be able to buy 20mm square bases if this is true?

I have a lifetime supply of square bases. And several lifetimes' supplies of 25mm round bases :X

Is it terrible that I am excited to play Kings of War for my former "mass battles" scale (since its super lean, movement/positioning is king rules better depict those kinds of battles IMO), and this as something altogether new?

I love Warmahordes on paper, but always find the lore, models, etc... very soul-less.

Something at that scale though, with a fresh take on GW world-building... might genuinely be something enjoyable to get into on Day 1.

I appreciate how this must upset old WHFB players, but the pure gamer in me is excited too.

WhispererofTruth wrote:
The essence of these lost unit, and the essence of warhammer itself will be kept alive in these new ranges however

As armies go, your models will still be available in some form, just not the form you now recognise.

If this was supposed to assuage the fear of being squatted, I'm afraid its having rather the opposite effect (on me at least)

But hey even if the models are gone, their ESSENCE lives on so its all good.

Finally, as a marketing guy, I admire the hoops the copywriter had to jump through to somehow spin this is a positive light.

Some information I have on some of the factions;

The Chaos faction will be mostly Daemons, with a few tacked on units from the other two books. This of course means the Chaos faction will be the largest faction, but it will be joined by units which are firmly entrenched in the GW IP and as such can't be copied by other manufacturers. A certain aspect of Chaos is going the way of the squat for this very reason, Hint: The gods are still there. Due to the nature of the new world, or pocket worlds rather, where Chaos is everywhere, Daemons will form the bulk of the Chaos armies. Generic stuff like Warhounds won't be sticking around in place of units like Flesh Hounds.

All the Orc and Goblin concepts will be combined into singular new concepts. Savage/Orcs/Black Orcs becoming one type of Orc for example. I initially heard way back that two armies would be joining the O&G, one would replace trolls, the other would lend some of it's concepts to the new O&G while being squatted themselves. Although the nature of the rules would let you imitate that squatted faction in Newhammer. Squigs and other O&G beasties will be made more predominant in place of boars, due to their IP able nature. I also heard Orcs would become, "Orks", but I'm not entirely sure if that was a joke.

Alot of Undead units are very similar with the combined list and as such alot of units will be going away. Ushabti for example and the Casket/Black Coach which are fairly redundant in light of the Mortis Engine. The concept of constructs will stay around in some form or the other. The Morghasts for example.

Skaven keep their more tech and frankenstein-esque units to define the armies new look. Plaguey and sneaky Shaven take the back seat.

Warmachines in general will be mounted on other units, to again save shelf space, and also to suit the more mobile style of a skirmish game better.

Other than that all I know has already been said tbh or is blatantly obvious. (Elves are a faction and Snape killed Dumbledore.)

Aspect of Chaos?

Elaborate.