Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Let me see: Dwarf King Hold in Spaaaace, with corporation hired guns fighting Zorr or plague?

What the hell is there to not like? Lack of GW seal on the corner of the box?

Pacific wrote:You are however forgetting the important point. If Mantic make a cheaper and good looking plastic alternative to the Cadian miniature, that also subs in well for Elysian drop-troopers (making an army of them economically feasible for a lot more people), it's not going to matter a damn whether their backstory describes them as riding unicyles to battle and holding a tiny cocktail parasol over their head for protection.

/applause

Duncan_Idaho wrote:Ahrg.... folks never get plastics right....

You say that...

What generally is called plastics are thermoplasts, but there are also duroplasts which generally are called resin. There is a third kind of plasts that generally is called rubber.

...and then you use the German terms instead of the English.


For the record, the categories are 'thermoplastic', 'thermoset' (archaically, 'thermosetting plastic') and 'elastomer' (informally, 'rubber') respectively, with duroplast referring to the particular fibre-reinforced plastic used in ye mighty Trabant.

Kroothawk wrote:... and you can't glue it with plastic cement, another evidence that it is not plastic.

Oh god, my blood pressure.


This is what you get when you propogate this "it's halfway between resin and plastic" malarky instead of coming straight out and stating what type of plastic it is, how its properties compare to vanilla PS and which solvents can be used to weld it now that 'plastic cement' is no longer up to the task.


On a positive note, Corporate with the cellphone looks ace.

Huh, cheers for that plastic post, that's really interesting. Didn't know any of that.

The Dwarf Wolf wrote:Let me see: Dwarf King Hold in Spaaaace, with corporation hired guns fighting Zorr or plague?

What the hell is there to not like? Lack of GW seal on the corner of the box?

Gonna go out on a limb here and guess "lack of miniatures that don't look like malproportioned gangly turds" unless there are huge changes afoot

Actually quite some english books use the German words... it seems they get more and more interchangable.

This is what you get when you propogate this "it's halfway between resin and plastic" malarky instead of coming straight out and stating what type of plastic it is, how its properties compare to vanilla PS and which solvents can be used to weld it now that 'plastic cement' is no longer up to the task.

Mantic was concerned that it would confuse consumers if they called it plastic, and they'd get complaints from people wondering why their glue doesn't work.

They have a point too.. remember the frothing internet nerd rage that happened when the PP plastics came out and were not "GW-style hard plastic sprues"?


Fact is, if they'd called it "plastic", this thread would be 5 pages longer with the internet masses raging about how Mantic is "lying", "marketing an inferior product as a superior one", "hurr durr Citadel PhailCo$t all over again".

A Kvlt Ghost wrote:Huh, cheers for that plastic post, that's really interesting. Didn't know any of that.

The Dwarf Wolf wrote:Let me see: Dwarf King Hold in Spaaaace, with corporation hired guns fighting Zorr or plague?

What the hell is there to not like? Lack of GW seal on the corner of the box?

Gonna go out on a limb here and guess "lack of miniatures that don't look like malproportioned gangly turds" unless there are huge changes afoot

I actually think a lot of the Mantic miniatures look great, I have some of their undead, orx and Forge Fathers and both the sculpting detail and quality are on a parity with what GW produces. The design is a subjective thing, which you will either like or not. The price difference however is not arguable

But it is testament to GW (and this is a general comment, not related to you A Kvlt Ghost) that after years of saying "we make the best miniatures on the planet" that people just believe it without examining the evidence first hand. The Corvus Belli range for Infinity I think is putting out far more detailed and interesting looking sculpts than anything GW is doing at the moment for instance.

GW's "heroic" miniatures with their gigantic hands and huge heads have also damaged people's perceptions to the point that they look at something that is actually more realistically proportioned and call it "malproportioned."

The proportions end up looking wrong to them because they're used to unrealistic proportions and when they see one closer to real life, it rubs them the wrong way.

Corporation Rangers Concept Art:





The rangers kit will include more options than any resin-plastic kit so far:

- rifles for all models
- pistol and power fist option for the leader
- 3 heavy laser rifles
- 3 heat guns
- 3 flamers
- seperate heads and drop-packs

So, it's looking like just as much variety and options from the resin plastics as you would expect from a hard plastic sprue.

Great, Elysians now also come with Pigiron helmets

Im pleased with mantic again, and i believe they will not do the same mistake again. Those guys will come perfectly...

Those concepts are getting really interesting, but after seeing other Mantic models, i would wait for the actual minis, if they are close enough to these sketches, then they'll be really great models

So far if they've released concept art, the finished product has been pretty bang on for it. The Forgefather "stormrage veterans" concept art and the miniatures are very close. It's the Steel Warriors who are disappointing. At least with Corp they won't have any "easy option" and will have to go for the real deal.

I gotta admit to being excited by the Corp. And I already own a huge IG army...

Construct wrote:[

Kroothawk wrote:... and you can't glue it with plastic cement, another evidence that it is not plastic.

Oh god, my blood pressure.


This is what you get when you propogate this "it's halfway between resin and plastic" malarky instead of coming straight out and stating what type of plastic it is, how its properties compare to vanilla PS and which solvents can be used to weld it now that 'plastic cement' is no longer up to the task.

Not going to take sides in this one, but it is notable that there are injection molded plastics that look, feel and paint up like the plastics used by GW and other model kit companies but cannot be glued with typical plastic solvent glues.

Remember the Warzone plastic Imperial and Bauhaus troops that came with the box set, and are now avaialble from Prince August?
Looked like styrene, cut like hard styrene (slightly harder than GW plastic), but you have to use super glue to hold them together.

frozenwastes wrote: There are tons of potential customers who like the bad guys and don't need their bad guys to really be good guys if you just put them in the right light.

Me, right here. As a matter of fact its nice to see a bad guy that isnt some sort of rehashed fantasy bad guy, like DE, Orks, Chaos, etc.

Da Boss wrote:So far if they've released concept art, the finished product has been pretty bang on for it.

Well, except for the Orx.. but we've been through that argument. If the human troopers turn out well, I'll buy them, no problem.

Duncan_Idaho wrote:Actually quite some english books use the German words... it seems they get more and more interchangable.

Oh, I've seen it used as synonym for thermoset – and for composites incorporating thermosets, and as a brandname for random products incorporating thermosets, and.... It has a formal definition in English and trying to shoehorn in others is sloppy and confusing – just like Mantic's use of 'resin plastic'. (Similarly, I suppose I should add that 'thermosetting plastic' should be avoided as it's a) old-fashioned and b) confusable with 'thermosetting polymer' which has an IUPAC definition as pre-cure thermoset.)

scarletsquig wrote:Mantic was concerned that it would confuse consumers if they called it plastic, and they'd get complaints from people wondering why their glue doesn't work.

They have a point too.. remember the frothing internet nerd rage that happened when the PP plastics came out and were not "GW-style hard plastic sprues"?

Fact is, if they'd called it "plastic", this thread would be 5 pages longer with the internet masses raging about how Mantic is "lying", "marketing an inferior product as a superior one", "hurr durr Citadel PhailCo$t all over again".

Tell me again how well actually lying is working out for them? People got over it with PP, they'll get over it with Mantic if treated like adults. Besides, 'resin' has certain negative connotations in the little wardollies market; why associate your product with it unless you have to?

scarletsquig wrote:Corporation Rangers Concept Art:

Heh, they actually look good in this set of sketches. Partly it's the increased detail, partly it's the poses, partly it's the helmets – but mostly it's because I've realised the rifles don't look half so bloody toy-like once you chop out the silly ribbed section behind the muzzle. Plus suddenly the handle placement makes sense.

Kroothawk wrote:Great, Elysians now also come with Pigiron helmets

They do not look like they were chiselled out of playdough by my niece!

That concept art has me truly excited. One thing I've learned from playing Privateer's games though, is that the artwork can set you up for disappointment when you see the actual models.

I won't preorder them. I'm going to wait until people get them and start posting painted pictures of their stuff.

An intelligent and prudent choice. I will be doing the same.

Da Boss wrote:So far if they've released concept art, the finished product has been pretty bang on for it. The Forgefather "stormrage veterans" concept art and the miniatures are very close. It's the Steel Warriors who are disappointing. At least with Corp they won't have any "easy option" and will have to go for the real deal.

Mantic always seemed to follow very close their concept art. It was that way with dwarfs, them with undead and orcs. Even the stormrage veterans are close to it. The only moment they dont followed this was in the "regular troopers" of orx and FF, but even orx got a very close feel.

That is why i believe in Mantic again this time: they know they must do this perfect... or else...

@Construct
You forgot one important thing about languages: Languages are constantly evolving and what might have been wrong yesterday may be right now and vica versa.

These won't be going up for pre-order until we've seen the models (on december 25th, for newsletter subscribers only, but naturally the internet will repost them).

As for the comment that calling them "plastic resin" is an example of the horrible evil MantiCorp dishing out evil evil lies to deliberately mislead their customers... if you truly believe that, then can we at least agree that:

a) Mantic would be considered lying whichever option they take - call them plastic and the masses will moan because they are not on sprues and need superglue unlike "real" plastic, call them resin plastic and the tiny minority of the wargaming population with an deep and in-depth knowledge of plastic manufacturing will not be happy.

b) Considering the above, it's better that mantic go ahead and irritate the minority who do have a clue rather than the majority who don't.

c) "Plastic Resin" as a non-accurate trade name is nowhere near as horrible as "Citadel Finecast", especially when taking into account the IRL quality of both materials.

The term has been around for a year now and this is the first time I've seen the internet kicking up a fuss about it.

Another thing to remember is the technical definitions of the words.

Plastic resin is a real thing. It's a hydrocarbon polymer formed under a heat process.

It's actually probably more accurate than just calling it plastic. Not as accurate as calling it by a polymer name, but still accurate.

I'm willing to bet that if the stuff was identified by a chemist from the Society of Plastics Industry would go "This is a petroleum distillate based resin plastic. Specifically, a plastic of Resin Idenficiation Code 3V," as I believe it's a PVC based polymer.

This flood of off topic posts is getting annoying.

Bute we need it so this topic does not show up its head every now and then.....

How is it off topic?

New fiction comes out and people comment on it.

New models come out and people comment on the material in which the models are cast.

Prices are announced and people comment on them and how they compare to others in the industry and how Mantic is trying to fit in this niche market.

Concept are is posted and people talk about how much the models will or will not look like the art.

Looks all on topic to me. Commenting and reacting to the news that's posted.

Seems to me that the only off topic post was the one complaining about off topic posts.

Now to stay on topic:

I was planning on grabbing Fate of the Forge Star, but the Corporation concept are is making want to wait and see those models and then put that hobby money towards them. Also, the Pandora thing is really exciting. Hopefully it won't take till the third release to have warbands and a points system like it did for Dwarf Kings Hold. I'm also really looking forward to sci-fi dungeon tiles that will come with it.

i suggest we call it PLASIN !

Those Corp troops will also be good for Mercs.

Good call! I bet a single set will have the 5 or 6 different guys/weapons that you need.