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Well, I will be buying this, there is no question.

I bought one of those Mantic's crazy Christmas bags and got
8 Orcs, 16 Dwarves, 40 Skeletons, 14 Zombies and 46 Elves.. all stuffed in my bag not a bad haul at all.

Polonius wrote:Hmm, question for those that have played it: is it appropriate for none-wargamers? My girlfriend is plenty geeky, (plays Skirim, did D&D), but I wonder if this is something that she might enjoy, especially as it's two player.

From watching the BOW play through video it seems like a fun, fast paced game with easy to understand rules.

Hmm, question for those that have played it: is it appropriate for none-wargamers? My girlfriend is plenty geeky, (plays Skirim, did D&D), but I wonder if this is something that she might enjoy, especially as it's two player.

Mine did - she went crazy over the Dwarfs in Dead Rising, so I got the Undead. Rules are very simple and it's actually a great introduction to the hobby, Mantic range and style of game they produce.

Polonius wrote:Hmm, question for those that have played it: is it appropriate for none-wargamers? My girlfriend is plenty geeky, (plays Skirim, did D&D), but I wonder if this is something that she might enjoy, especially as it's two player.

Of any board games around at the moment, I would say DKH is probably one of the best suited to introducing new gamers to the concept of rolling dice. Certainly, the couple of people I tried it with have really enjoyed.

Here is quite a good review on this blog:

http://thefrontlinegamer.blogspot.com/2011/06/review-dwarf-kings-hold-dead-rising.html

I think i'm going to get this, provided i don't take an arrow in the knee soon.

i don't take an arrow in the knee soon.

I've seen this phrase around a lot and don't really understand it?

Also, anyone seen this? Looks like there are rules for Wraiths!
http://www.manticblog.com/?p=5009

Black Nexus: It's a Skyrim joke.

Da Boss wrote:Black Nexus: It's a Skyrim joke.

Yeah, basically NPCs come out with various scripts when you walk next to them. One of them is something like, "I used to be an adventurer like you once, before I took an arrow in the knee." Because there are only so many scripts to be repeated, it is amazing how many of the various guards of skyrim have taken an arrow to the knee.

The 'Fus Roo Dah' meme is pretty funny as well.

OT, I got a free Mantic ghoul sprue with the Wargames Illustrated magazine spin-off, Dark Horizons (not sure if this is current? Picked it up from Hobbycraft so it could have been sat on the shelf for months). Nice little sculpt with good detail and posing, I think the UD has to be the stand-out range now for Kings of War and I can completely understand why it has been so popular.

A comment from Jake Thornton's blog, designer of the forthcoming 'Dwarf King's Hold in Space' game:

Its working title is 'Grim Cargo'

I’ve started with the same sort of assumptions as I did for DKH: make a single, standalone game, but build into the framework the possibilities of expanding it to include other races, other environments, and so on. That way, if Ronnie decides not to do another (which would plainly be crazy) then it’s still fine as a game on its own. On the other hand, if/when everyone clamours for more then the “more” has a chance to dovetail properly. Nothing so disappointing as an expansion that feels like a rushed collection of floor sweepings. With that in mind, I’ve been roughing out other races and so on while I do the core rules and the stats for what we’re putting in this initial box.

I have decided to retain the core dice mechanic of the DKH series, but not because I’m being lazy. It’s actually more work to retain it than it is to start again, but I think that there is a value to keeping a “Mantic Style”, as it were. Players use tokens too, though they work very, very differently from DKH.

A sci-fi skirmish is not just a dungeon bash with guns. It’s a fundamentally different process and deserves to be modelled as such.

HMMM it could fill a hole left by space hulk.

I reckon GW will be like DAMN

Thats if they pull it off.

It will be a Space Hulk rip-off, they even posted a preview story in their free run of Mantic mag about aliens with sharp claws in dark tunnels hidden away in an asteroid turned into a space ship.

They also went on to announce that the Corporation would be red coats in space (how original), that the Asterians would be pixies in space, the Z'zor would be hornets in space, rebels would be freedom fighters in space, Plague would be survival horror in space and the mention of an eight race, also in space. Ugh.

BrookM wrote:It will be a Space Hulk rip-off, they even posted a preview story in their free run of Mantic mag about aliens with sharp claws in dark tunnels hidden away in an asteroid turned into a space ship.

They also went on to announce that the Corporation would be red coats in space (how original), that the Asterians would be pixies in space, the Z'zor would be hornets in space, rebels would be freedom fighters in space, Plague would be survival horror in space and the mention of an eight race, also in space. Ugh.

BrookM, so you're trying to tell me that the concept of troopers travelling down the corridors of a human-built craft being attacked by aliens for Space Hulk was pulled out of the hat entirely by GW?
I remember people commenting "Oh look, Aliens." when it was first released. Not in a derogatory sense, but rather is was released on the back of numerous films coming out at that time, it was a good idea and cashed in on a trend.

Dwarf King's Hold is actually a great deal of fun to play. I've used it as an introductory game for people who would never usually touch a dice, yet it has a surprising amount of depth once you figure out its nuances. No doubt it will also be a very competitive price. I agree it's probably not going to set the world on fire with a radically new concept, but then again at least Mantic have always been honest about what they are setting out to achieve.

BrookM wrote:They also went on to announce that the Corporation would be red coats in space (how original),

I don't hate the Corporation because they're unoriginal, I hate them because they're a bunch of unlikeable imbeciles. And yes, I mean that in comparison to 40k. "Kill the witch!" starts looking downright rational when tolerance for said witches and their cranial doorways to hell cause the downfall of multiple galactic civilisations. The Corporation has no such excuse for being evil, stupid, incompetent and yet somehow in control of the majority of humanity.

the Asterians would be pixies in space... Plague would be survival horror in space...

"Pixies IN SPACE" has some mythology behind it in the form of the Greys, so I've got no problems with that. I just don't think they've got any place on the Warpath tabletop.

All I'm reading I see space dwarf kings hold is a copy of space hulk copy of games workshop hate. Hell if gw wanted to they could re release it as a basic stand alone version without the fancy plastics and really shoot themselves in the foot by then selling people 2 squads of terminators and a nice selection of gene stealers for £75. They won't it would loose them so much money for many reasons.

1, people may just want to re live old space hulk glories and would have no interest in buying other gw branded goods so no player of customer retention.

2, as we have seen with the current 40k game people buying multiple copies to break up and sell on eBay for a profit

3, they would technically be saying hey folks we released the super limited edition game again so yours is only a little bit cooler now

All in all it's not going to be good if that ever happens. That said this is not what mantic are doing from what I can see. They are expanding on a successful pre existing successful range of small skirmish type games. It makes sence to do the next one in space to promote your second entry into the gaming world by making small steps into a skirmish smaller and easier to pick up game that can stand alone and will introduce the new plastics to people.

This cooperation or what ever Mumbo jumbo is another of mantics cash cows if the concept sketches are to be believed. Expect to see them on a table near you as nice drop troopers. Good luck to em they need it.

AlexHolker wrote:The Corporation has no such excuse for being evil, stupid, incompetent and yet somehow in control of the majority of humanity.

Umbrella Corporation?

AlexHolker wrote:The Corporation has no such excuse for being evil, stupid, incompetent and yet somehow in control of the majority of humanity.

And yet in our own history, the British Empire was a globally spanning super power and did some pretty horrific things in their colonies that to this day have not been fixed or redressed.

The Corporation as being greed driven rather than being a theocracy is just picking a real world human theme and applying it to a sci-fi setting.

I also don't see much in the way of incompetence in the Corporation fiction so far. They're expansionist and have a great track record in terms of conquering other species they encounter.

I'm sure some of Kiplings poems supporting British Imperialism in the late 19th century could be reworked into excellent Corporation propaganda.

frozenwastes wrote:And yet in our own history, the British Empire was a globally spanning super power and did some pretty horrific things in their colonies that to this day have not been fixed or redressed.

The Corporation as being greed driven rather than being a theocracy is just picking a real world human theme and applying it to a sci-fi setting.

That doesn't make them any less unlikeable.

I also don't see much in the way of incompetence in the Corporation fiction so far. They're expansionist and have a great track record in terms of conquering other species they encounter.

At least three of the seven opposing factions are only an active threat because the Corporation screwed up - the Marauders, uplifted by the Corporation and trained as soldiers before they broke free; the Zz'or, awakened by the Corporation who subsequently failed to contain them; and the Rebs, who organised in direct response to the Corporation's evil, stupid, incompetent control of the majority of humanity.

You are however forgetting the important point. If Mantic make a cheaper and good looking plastic alternative to the Cadian miniature, that also subs in well for Elysian drop-troopers (making an army of them economically feasible for a lot more people), it's not going to matter a damn whether their backstory describes them as riding unicyles to battle and holding a tiny cocktail parasol over their head for protection.

Although personally I think the background is OK, and certainly feasible as how humanity would turn out if we ever make it into space, using our historical exploits on earth as a template. It has a ring of 'Weyland-Yutani' about it, and numerous other sci-fi stories.

Pacific wrote:You are however forgetting the important point. If Mantic make a cheaper and good looking plastic alternative to the Cadian miniature, that also subs in well for Elysian drop-troopers (making an army of them economically feasible for a lot more people), it's not going to matter a damn whether their backstory describes them as riding unicyles to battle and holding a tiny cocktail parasol over their head for protection.

People might not hold bad fluff against good models, but that doesn't stop it being bad fluff.

Although personally I think the background is OK, and certainly feasible as how humanity would turn out if we ever make it into space, using our historical exploits on earth as a template. It has a ring of 'Weyland-Yutani' about it, and numerous other sci-fi stories.

Nobody watches Aliens for Weyland-Yutani.

Yes, but their behaviour (profit before all else) is one of the keystones to the plot in the first two films.

I think a lot of sci-fi stuff over the last 30 years or so has tapped into the public perception of fear and uneasiness concerning large corporations, in that sense what Mantic is doing here is hardly new (although that in itself I don't think is necessarily a bad thing).

Just out of interest, do you think it's bad fluff because in your view it is unrealistic, or because you find it uninspired/lacking originality?

Corporation background is basically identical to the Alliance from Firefly (including the "we created the enemy through our own incompetence" thing).

Same goes for Rebels and the Plague, loosely speaking.

And I've always liked Firefly, so I don't see a problem with that. Warpath is not an amazing and original sci-fi setting (and certainly feels a little too empty at the moment, without stuff like maps, timelines and descriptions of other aliens/ artwork to flesh it out), but unless mantic gets big enough to be able to afford the luxury of a staff writer/ artist that's not going to happen. It's better than what we have for KoW at the moment.

GW background is largely ripped from human history and pop culture, even the stuff that seems unique like the grimdark and chaos gods are largely copy+paste from Moorcock.

Wargames companies are often pretty bad at making a compelling setting. The GW setting only works due to decades of developing a rough idea by some very talented people.

I think AT-43 is the only game I've come across where the background immediately struck me as fantastic high-concept sci-fi from the start (basically, it deals with humans on earth having obtained immortality through advanced technology and working to prevent the eventual heat death of the universe to make that immortality permanent).

Pacific wrote:Just out of interest, do you think it's bad fluff because in your view it is unrealistic, or because you find it uninspired/lacking originality?

I think it's bad fluff because I find it uninspiring. In contrast with the initial rumours, it reads like an argument why you shouldn't want to play the army.

Hm, that is intriguing to me. The corporation made me think about playing IG for the first time on my life. So mfor me, they are Inspiring (it was the first time in a long time that i cogitated to use the "regular humans" in a game).

I'm another one that totally got sucked in by the corporation background fiction.

I also like that they don't sugar coat it and present them as good from their own point of view. There are tons of potential customers who like the bad guys and don't need their bad guys to really be good guys if you just put them in the right light.

Wait I think I get it!

Before warpath, mantic's fluff was....well no one ever talked about it! With the Corp, people are actually looking at the backstory now whether they like it or hate it!

Its a conspiracy I tell you!

Well, one mans trash is another mans treasure!

Interesting post on Jake Thornton's blog regarding the Corporation release.

What’s that on your desk over there, Jake?

Well, I just got back from Mantic Central and have managed to get my paws on some of the first of the Corporation figures for Warpath. Now I only got them on the specific understanding that I wouldn’t be showing them to you guys yet (‘cos Ronnie knows I like to share these things), but have a look at this concept art.

The models are fairly faithful renditions of this art. Obviously there are some detail differences of pouches, grenades and other bits of kit between models, but this is the basic armour they’re in and equipment they’re carrying. Very nicely rendered it is too. The anatomy is more realistically proportioned than GW figures, which is good or bad depending on your personal preference. I rather like it, myself, even though I’ve been looking at GW figures for so many years that they don’t really look as strange as they are – at least, not until you look at any humans

And the general is really cool. Even if he can’t get a signal on his mobile, he looks very much the part. Saw the greeen for this guy and he is really well done. I’m not very drawn to Warpath as a game, but I do like these figures and will be getting some more when they become more available. I have other plans for them.

My thoughts on this:

"The models are fairly faithful renditions of this art"
Wonderful, Elysian drop-trooper army here I come

" I have other plans for them."
Another indication that Jake is making the 'Dwarf King's Hold - in space' game.

Apparently the models are going to be revealed officially on Christmas day.

Pacific wrote:

" I have other plans for them."
Another indication that Jake is making the 'Dwarf King's Hold - in space' game.

He is. There was a blog post about it the other day.

BrookM wrote:It will be a Space Hulk rip-off, they even posted a preview story in their free run of Mantic mag about aliens with sharp claws in dark tunnels hidden away in an asteroid turned into a space ship.

They also went on to announce that the Corporation would be red coats in space (how original), that the Asterians would be pixies in space, the Z'zor would be hornets in space, rebels would be freedom fighters in space, Plague would be survival horror in space and the mention of an eight race, also in space. Ugh.

If they rip off the feel of Aliens (which is what Space Hulk was, is and shall ever be) then great!