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So can someone that's read the fluff in White Dwarf tell me if the Stormtalon is pre- or post- Heresy?

It doesn't say. The plastic model is supposedly a Mk II version though.

Doesn't say but I think post. The associated White Scars story mentions "Next stop, Ryza Forge World" where many things semm to be coming from now. Stormtalons, Predator Executioners, Tigrus pattern bolters.

Nagashek wrote:

Mad4Minis wrote:

Insurgency Walker wrote: I am however going to model some dents in the wings and underside of my Blitza bomber, maybe some Tau sensor antenna stick in the wing or something.

That would be quite cool. Maybe a SM helmet stuck on some random protrusion...

And the running and screaming guy from the Giant sprue mounted on the base, IMO.

I don't know if you have one, but the Stormboyz head wearing a bandana, emblazoned with a bomb, over his mouth would make a great head for the pilot, too. That's what I'm using, unless the heads included are REALLY awesome.

Deadshot wrote:Here are good and bad points about it You mean bad and average?

Bad
It competes with Land Speeders. And is more expensive
Large model not getting cover well.
When upgraded with a TML it costs nearly 3X the cost of a Standard LS.

Good
Its standard loadout of TL HB and TL AC it costs just 40pts more than a Speeder with the same, untwinlinked, Unceramite shielded, Hover Strikeless, subsonic, not ariel assaulting Land Speeder with less armour So it can move, shoot, not get cover and die. Move fast and, get a 4+ save against dying and not fire or not move, get a slight bonus to firing and die just as well.
Its Supersonic rule allows it to threathen enemies a lot quicker than a Speeder Threaten them with what? You are in their deployment with a single model up to 155pts which can't fire that turn. Land Speeders can get two in their deployment reliably, splitting the threat. You can also block units more reliably with 2 speeders than with one stormtalon
Ariel Assault makes it a lot more shooty moving at Cruising but with all the perks (6+ to hit in CC) Who would assault said vehicle? Focus fire with anti-tank because it has no cover and it will never get cover because it's base/stand are so big compared to the model.
Hover Strike gives it Pinning shots against everything, and BS 5 against anything that isn't flying (ie, anything not a JI, Jetbike or Skimmer) pinning sucks, when they make it good (possibly in the next edition) you might have a valid point here
Escort rule allows you to get serious firepower at a point on the board at a crucial time without a seperate reserves roll, and outflanking scouts can put it right.at the enemy lines without reserve manipulation you could end up not turning up on the board at all. Land Speeder Scouts can outflank as well.
Heavier armour than a speeder At AV11, not a huge freaking improvement. Lascannons, missile launcers, assault cannons, autocannons, meltaguns/multimeltas (still penning on 4+), plasma guns, hydra flak, dark lances, blasters, rokkits, bright lances, scatter lasers, shuriken cannons, multilasers...the list goes on, do not care for your AV11
Doesn't compete for Land Raider, Predator or Vindicator slots Neither does a land speeder...what is you point here?
Doesn't suffer from having to move at crusing speed when entering from reserves like Vendettas or stormravens You mean gunships with actual transport capacity and a decent weapons loadout, the horror!
Skyhammer missiles outrange Imperial heavy weapons like ML and Lascannons On a 6"x4" you're not making a whole lot of difference. If you sit at the back of your board and fire, why not take Land Speeder Typhoons? This also negates your argument about getting this unit into your enemy's deployment zone. Decide: is this a ranged skimmer or a close encounter skimmer?

Deadshot wrote:Funny, when the thread openedthe first posts were saying it was lies. Then sketches came in and people called bullgak. Then WD PICS!!! Everyone was like "OMG its real!"

Yes I found that funny too. You know what else is funny ... not one of the people calling be a liar take the time to post to say sorry for being a ****.

At least you have the peace of mind and spirit of contentment and vindication in knowing you were right!

Just like Konrad!

Ehsteve wrote:

Deadshot wrote:
Escort rule allows you to get serious firepower at a point on the board at a crucial time without a seperate reserves roll, and outflanking scouts can put it right.at the enemy lines without reserve manipulation you could end up not turning up on the board at all. Land Speeder Scouts can outflank as well.

Coming in alongside another unit is quite a boon, as it splits your opponent's fire. Furthermore, we are comparing it to a Land Speeder, not a Land Speeder Storm, which doesn't carry anywhere near the same firepower and is BS3 and open-topped. To quote yourself: "make up your mind".

Furthermore, how would you not turn up on the board? You're guaranteed to come in on turn 5. I'd say bike armies would benefit greatly from the Stormtalon as it can provide supporting fire while keeping up with the bikers.

Harry wrote:Yes I found that funny too. You know what else is funny ... not one of the people calling be a liar take the time to post to say sorry for being a ****.

I think you meant "calling me a liar". Unless this is one of those strange British sayings .

Still, you should feel some assurance that merely a few people on Dakka only insinuated that you were a liar...conversely Stickmonkey has been litterally cussed out on several sites . I just don't understand why people rage so much.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Ehsteve wrote:

Deadshot wrote:
Escort rule allows you to get serious firepower at a point on the board at a crucial time without a seperate reserves roll, and outflanking scouts can put it right.at the enemy lines without reserve manipulation you could end up not turning up on the board at all. Land Speeder Scouts can outflank as well.

Coming in alongside another unit is quite a boon, as it splits your opponent's fire. Furthermore, we are comparing it to a Land Speeder, not a Land Speeder Storm, which doesn't carry anywhere near the same firepower and is BS3 and open-topped. To quote yourself: "make up your mind".

Furthermore, how would you not turn up on the board? You're guaranteed to come in on turn 5. I'd say bike armies would benefit greatly from the Stormtalon as it can provide supporting fire while keeping up with the bikers.

Splitting your opponents fire to an AV11 vehicle is not a smart idea. A razorback could do the exact same thing with a tactical squad (pile them in the razorback TLLC, enter from reserves) and it would work because the vehicle aspect would only cost you 75pts, easy to ignore if you lose it and you'll still get the 1 round of shooting you'd get from the Stormtalon.

So let's assume you do tag the Stormtalon along with a squad worth a damn:

So you're looking to keep at least 300pts off the board, meaning you're 1700 vs. his 2000 at best. Or 1450 vs. 1750.

So to make best use of the escort ability with the Stormtalon you need to escort an outflanking unit (a squad with Sicarius, Scouts, Khan bikes, Scout Bikes) in order to make it effective otherwise you're just keeping it at extreme range, negating it's effectiveness as a fast skimmer, in which case you should simply get a predator for a far cheaper cost/better AV. Otherwise you're boosting it in from Reserves in which case you're not shooting. A Land Speeder has exactly the same ability, only there's a chance the unit will turn up first or the Land Speeder will (name me a situation in which both a Stormtalon and another unit arriving on the board is essential to any sort of strategy).

The only force which escort could possibly work with is as you said: bikes. Unfortunately, they don't need the Stormtalon, this does not augment the force in any conceivable manner. Again: Land speeders. More versitility, splitting the threat plus smaller (therefore easier to gain cover, easier to hide) on top of not having a dumb as hell looking model.

Harry wrote:

Deadshot wrote:Funny, when the thread openedthe first posts were saying it was lies. Then sketches came in and people called bullgak. Then WD PICS!!! Everyone was like "OMG its real!"

Yes I found that funny too. You know what else is funny ... not one of the people calling be a liar take the time to post to say sorry for being a ****.

You were right. Stickmonkey still WRONG!!! Calling him a lair no you need to hav half a mind to be a lair. For those that don't remember his "summer of flyers". Here it is

stickmonkey wrote:SM here, I debated posting anything, but some others have persuaded me. I have just a few things for the rumored summer of fliers I first mentioned here.

Still rumored as July wd rule set
Apoc style rules, strafing/bombing runs, rapid insertion/extraction, special missions, dogfighting?
Thunder hawk is NOT likely
Codex based releases...
Dark eldar raven
Eldar night wing?
Ig hydra
Nid harpy
Non codex releases...
Ig thunderbolt
Csm hell blade
Tau remora
No necron release?
Ork fighta/bomma
No SM release?

Suspected non codex releases will only be rules...models already FW...

Necrons may get something with their codex.

Raven/night wing likely to be combined kit.

So that's pretty limited, 3 kits and wd rules. But it sounds like it's in the typical wheelhouse.

Probably disappointing news to many, but in light of some of the other speculation running I decided to put some info out.

So out of the 15 things in that rumor 3 happened

Ork fighter/bommer
No thunder hawk
Codex based release.
Oh and they released skimmers......

But yes Harry you were right and waited till there was real info to post.

Ehsteve: All your complaining is assuming that the rules for these vehicles will stay the same in 6th edition. What is Aerial Assault gets the flyer rule reducing the range of whatever is shooting at it by 12" and only hit on 6s regardless of BS, of course unless the weapon is mounted on an AA mount

chris13f wrote:Ehsteve: All your complaining is assuming that the rules for these vehicles will stay the same in 6th edition. What is Aerial Assault gets the flyer rule reducing the range of whatever is shooting at it by 12" and only hit on 6s regardless of BS, of course unless the weapon is mounted on an AA mount

Ceramite plating wouldn't do anything in that case.

Ehsteve wrote:[The only force which escort could possibly work with is as you said: bikes. Unfortunately, they don't need the Stormtalon, this does not augment the force in any conceivable manner. Again: Land speeders. More versitility, splitting the threat plus smaller (therefore easier to gain cover, easier to hide) on top of not having a dumb as hell looking model.

As someone who runs a bike army, I gotta disagree with you here.

Bike armies have a hard time with the destruction of transports. Sure, you can rush up and melta the crap out of a rhino/razorback only to have the models inside pour out and assault your bikes. The stormtalon augments the force by allowing you to outflank and crack the transports so your bikes can shoot at the infantry inside.

Of course, were putting a 6th edition ruleset model into the 5th edition and wondering why it seems odd. Once the new edition comes out, I expect this model will be better.

Bike armies have a hard time with the destruction of transports. Sure, you can rush up and melta the crap out of a rhino/razorback only to have the models inside pour out and assault your bikes. The stormtalon augments the force by allowing you to outflank and crack the transports so your bikes can shoot at the infantry inside.

Isn't that what the attack bikes should be for? At a fraction of the price?

labmouse42 wrote:

Ehsteve wrote:[The only force which escort could possibly work with is as you said: bikes. Unfortunately, they don't need the Stormtalon, this does not augment the force in any conceivable manner. Again: Land speeders. More versitility, splitting the threat plus smaller (therefore easier to gain cover, easier to hide) on top of not having a dumb as hell looking model.

As someone who runs a bike army, I gotta disagree with you here.

Bike armies have a hard time with the destruction of transports. Sure, you can rush up and melta the crap out of a rhino/razorback only to have the models inside pour out and assault your bikes. The stormtalon augments the force by allowing you to outflank and crack the transports so your bikes can shoot at the infantry inside.

Of course, were putting a 6th edition ruleset model into the 5th edition and wondering why it seems odd. Once the new edition comes out, I expect this model will be better.

Punch them with power fists/klaws!! No also bike armies suffer from long range fire power.

Harry wrote:

Deadshot wrote:Funny, when the thread openedthe first posts were saying it was lies. Then sketches came in and people called bullgak. Then WD PICS!!! Everyone was like "OMG its real!"

Yes I found that funny too. You know what else is funny ... not one of the people calling be a liar take the time to post to say sorry for being a ****.

Harry go back to warseer dakka is kinda like a monkey S#$t fight. Intersesting to watch untill you get some on you.

ShumaGorath wrote:

Bike armies have a hard time with the destruction of transports. Sure, you can rush up and melta the crap out of a rhino/razorback only to have the models inside pour out and assault your bikes. The stormtalon augments the force by allowing you to outflank and crack the transports so your bikes can shoot at the infantry inside.

Isn't that what the attack bikes should be for? At a fraction of the price?

The thing that makes the storm talon edge out here is that it comes in with reserve with your bikes. What happens when your attack bikes come in on turn 2, and your troop bikes come in on turn 3? Your attack bikes die horribly to ML spam or psydreads. When there is so much STR 8 in the meta today, doubling out attack bikes is very easy.

Thats why the escort ability is nice for bike armies. It helps to increase the threat you bring to the table at the same time.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

cgage00 wrote:Punch them with power fists/klaws!! No also bike armies suffer from long range fire power.

If you rush forward and punch the armor with your fist, the models inside will pour out and assault your bikes. As nearly every other unit outfights bikes, its not a good trade.

The thing that makes the storm talon edge out here is that it comes in with reserve with your bikes. What happens when your attack bikes come in on turn 2, and your troop bikes come in on turn 3? Your attack bikes die horribly to ML spam or psydreads. When there is so much STR 8 in the meta today, doubling out attack bikes is very easy.

As opposed to penning an av11 flyer..? One would think missile launchers would do the job regardless.

Anyoen else think reserves are going to be "tweaked" in the new edition?

Ehsteve wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Ehsteve wrote:

Deadshot wrote:
Escort rule allows you to get serious firepower at a point on the board at a crucial time without a seperate reserves roll, and outflanking scouts can put it right.at the enemy lines without reserve manipulation you could end up not turning up on the board at all. Land Speeder Scouts can outflank as well.

Coming in alongside another unit is quite a boon, as it splits your opponent's fire. Furthermore, we are comparing it to a Land Speeder, not a Land Speeder Storm, which doesn't carry anywhere near the same firepower and is BS3 and open-topped. To quote yourself: "make up your mind".

Furthermore, how would you not turn up on the board? You're guaranteed to come in on turn 5. I'd say bike armies would benefit greatly from the Stormtalon as it can provide supporting fire while keeping up with the bikers.

Splitting your opponents fire to an AV11 vehicle is not a smart idea. A razorback could do the exact same thing with a tactical squad (pile them in the razorback TLLC, enter from reserves) and it would work because the vehicle aspect would only cost you 75pts, easy to ignore if you lose it and you'll still get the 1 round of shooting you'd get from the Stormtalon.

So let's assume you do tag the Stormtalon along with a squad worth a damn:

So you're looking to keep at least 300pts off the board, meaning you're 1700 vs. his 2000 at best. Or 1450 vs. 1750.

So to make best use of the escort ability with the Stormtalon you need to escort an outflanking unit (a squad with Sicarius, Scouts, Khan bikes, Scout Bikes) in order to make it effective otherwise you're just keeping it at extreme range, negating it's effectiveness as a fast skimmer, in which case you should simply get a predator for a far cheaper cost/better AV. Otherwise you're boosting it in from Reserves in which case you're not shooting. A Land Speeder has exactly the same ability, only there's a chance the unit will turn up first or the Land Speeder will (name me a situation in which both a Stormtalon and another unit arriving on the board is essential to any sort of strategy).

The only force which escort could possibly work with is as you said: bikes. Unfortunately, they don't need the Stormtalon, this does not augment the force in any conceivable manner. Again: Land speeders. More versitility, splitting the threat plus smaller (therefore easier to gain cover, easier to hide) on top of not having a dumb as hell looking model.

I don't know what Codex you're looking at, but Land Speeders can't outflank. The Stormtalon is thus infinitely more likely to outflank than a Land Speeder. Getting your reserves in together is essential as it lets you effectively alpha strike your opponent with a greater deal of your army, thus limiting the damage you take back. For example, two bike squads coming in and killing two targets is more than twice as effective as one, as not only does your opponent have to kill twice your number, he will also have less units to do it with than he would against just one. This is what I meant with target splitting.

Besides, even if you're just keeping it in the back shooting at stuff it's more manouverable than a Predator. A Predator can't move and fire all of it's weapons, a Stormtalon can. Finally, there's nothing stopping you from taking both Predators and Stormtalons; they're not in the same slot anyway.

Cant landSpeeder Storms outflank?

Yeah, and they suck. An AV 10 opentopped vehicle with barely any good weapons. Comparing it to the Talon is wrong as thetly are two completely different units.

Deadshot wrote:Yeah, and they suck. An AV 10 opentopped vehicle with barely any good weapons. Comparing it to the Talon is wrong as thetly are two completely different units.

Great model though

Flashman wrote:

Deadshot wrote:Yeah, and they suck. An AV 10 opentopped vehicle with barely any good weapons. Comparing it to the Talon is wrong as thetly are two completely different units.

Great model though

Another thing that they don't have in common.

Yeah. The LSS looks aweful.

I'll tell you what the talon reminds me of. Thunderbird 4. The yellow submarine.

Deadshot wrote:Yeah. The LSS looks aweful.

I'll tell you what the talon reminds me of. Thunderbird 4. The yellow submarine.

While I don't like the talon, I rather like the Land Speeder Storm's look. To each his own...

ShumaGorath wrote:

The thing that makes the storm talon edge out here is that it comes in with reserve with your bikes. What happens when your attack bikes come in on turn 2, and your troop bikes come in on turn 3? Your attack bikes die horribly to ML spam or psydreads. When there is so much STR 8 in the meta today, doubling out attack bikes is very easy.

As opposed to penning an av11 flyer..? One would think missile launchers would do the job regardless.

I suggest looking at the 'Escort Craft' rule. It prevents your stormtalon from coming in a turn before or after your bikes.

Edit : Reading your past few posts, I don't think anything will change your mind on the storm talon. If it makes you feel better, I agree that its a 'meh' vehicle for the most part with limited application.

labmouse42 wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

The thing that makes the storm talon edge out here is that it comes in with reserve with your bikes. What happens when your attack bikes come in on turn 2, and your troop bikes come in on turn 3? Your attack bikes die horribly to ML spam or psydreads. When there is so much STR 8 in the meta today, doubling out attack bikes is very easy.

As opposed to penning an av11 flyer..? One would think missile launchers would do the job regardless.

I suggest looking at the 'Escort Craft' rule. It prevents your stormtalon from coming in a turn before or after your bikes.

Alright, and you'll get the chance to pop a 35 point rhino with a 130-155 legless exosquad suit followed by those same missiles shooting it out of the sky. It's not a good transport popper because it's too valuable and vulnerable to do it reliably more than once and it's too costly to be a suicide unit.

ShumaGorath wrote:

labmouse42 wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

The thing that makes the storm talon edge out here is that it comes in with reserve with your bikes. What happens when your attack bikes come in on turn 2, and your troop bikes come in on turn 3? Your attack bikes die horribly to ML spam or psydreads. When there is so much STR 8 in the meta today, doubling out attack bikes is very easy.

As opposed to penning an av11 flyer..? One would think missile launchers would do the job regardless.

I suggest looking at the 'Escort Craft' rule. It prevents your stormtalon from coming in a turn before or after your bikes.

Alright, and you'll get the chance to pop a 35 point rhino with a 130-155 legless exosquad suit followed by those same missiles shooting it out of the sky. It's not a good transport popper because it's too valuable and vulnerable to do it reliably more than once and it's too costly to be a suicide unit.

How does your proposal of attack bikes any different?

You need multiple ones to get a reasonable chance of popping that '35 point rhino', so the cost is not much different.