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I must admit, I'm somewhat concerned that (what I consider to be) the Necron's biggest weakness is still present, and has not actually been addressed at all. Close combat. I'm well aware that there are many shiny new CC-designated units in the new codex, but all the Troops choices seem like they will still be less than worthless in CC. Three different types of Flayed-Ones-on-steroids will in no way prevent either of the two Troops choices from getting swept time and again. Necron Warriors only ever needed some CC wargear options, maybe a power weapon or a two-hands option, like a pistol + CC weapon combo. Instead, we seem to have been given only CC specialty units, which do nothing for the original problem.

Now let's examine the Ghost Ark. I'm operating on the rumours of about 120 points, the ability to resurrect troops, and the teaser shielding. On the table, if any opponent (read: everyone) knows that it can resurrect warriors, then it becomes a target. Which means it lives for about two turns. One turn to wipe out the shield, and one turn to destroy the vehicle. But, it's a transport, so two turns is all it needs to deliver it's warrior payload, then mission accomplished, right? Well, when your 50-point Rhino explodes after delivering its Marines, you don't care. It's only 50 points, and got its job done. But when your 120-point model explodes after delivering its Warriors, you get a little upset, because you paid a very high price for its resurrection ability, which carries within its price the expectation that the vehicle survives more than two turns.

By the way, if I never said it before, I am grateful to Yakface for the info. I don't like much of what I'm hearing, but I'm still glad that I'm hearing it. Please do not ever forget that.

As to anyone who is working within the paradigm of "why don't you just wait and see what the codex says before judging it": This is a pointless argument, because you assume the codex will be wonderful, however this has no more basis than those who assume the codex will be terrible. That is why this is a rumours thread. We speculate and discuss based upon the rumours. I will take my leave from the soapbox, now.

Assuming the particle whip is no longer ordinance.

I don't think the Lith will be useless, but it will take a bit of retraining to find it's niche.

It amuses me that people are crying that Necrons don't have any good antitank firepower. Has the notion of armies having actual weaknesses ever even occurred to your addle-coved imaginings? Clearly not.

And that potential cover is TERRIBLE. Someone should photoshop it into a Manowar album.

azazel the cat wrote:As to anyone who is working within the paradigm of "why don't you just wait and see what the codex says before judging it": This is a pointless argument, because you assume the codex will be wonderful, however this has no more basis than those who assume the codex will be terrible. That is why this is a rumours thread. We speculate and discuss based upon the rumours. I will take my leave from the soapbox, now.

That simply doesn't make sense. It's making definitive pronouncements about new/revised units on the basis of incomplete/inaccurate information that is pointless. By all means debate it, but leave some room for the possibility that you don't have the full picture. Playing some actualy games using a new codex a few times doesn't hurt either.

Agamemnon2 wrote:It amuses me that people are crying that Necrons don't have any good antitank firepower. Has the notion of armies having actual weaknesses ever even occurred to your addle-coved imaginings? Clearly not.

And that potential cover is TERRIBLE. Someone should photoshop it into a Manowar album.

necrons already have a weakness: close combat. So if tanks are also a weakness, then it's time for the Necrons to conquer the world of mid-range shooty armies! ...wait. The only mid-range shooty army... are the Necrons.

Agamemnon2 wrote:It amuses me that people are crying that Necrons don't have any good antitank firepower. Has the notion of armies having actual weaknesses ever even occurred to your addle-coved imaginings? Clearly not.

And that potential cover is TERRIBLE. Someone should photoshop it into a Manowar album.

You mean beside I2, no cc ability worth noting (may change with new codex, can't tell until we've played it a bit), expensive, open topped slow skimmers?



In a mech heavy meta it's nice to have something to crack vehicles with Orks lack decent antitank at range, but they makeup for it by being actually quite good in CC, something necrons aren't actually known for

Usually the only people i find touting that armies should have glaring weaknesses are Marine players, with codexes that don't have any glaring weaknesses

Agamemnon2 wrote:It amuses me that people are crying that Necrons don't have any good antitank firepower. Has the notion of armies having actual weaknesses ever even occurred to your addle-coved imaginings?.

Seeing as how they have been suffering from that same weakness for the past 7 years.... NO, it hasn't crossed our minds that they would continue to have the same problem after a new codex.

Tailgunner wrote:

azazel the cat wrote:As to anyone who is working within the paradigm of "why don't you just wait and see what the codex says before judging it": This is a pointless argument, because you assume the codex will be wonderful, however this has no more basis than those who assume the codex will be terrible. That is why this is a rumours thread. We speculate and discuss based upon the rumours. I will take my leave from the soapbox, now.

That simply doesn't make sense. It's making definitive pronouncements about new/revised units on the basis of incomplete/inaccurate information that is pointless. By all means debate it, but leave some room for the possibility that you don't have the full picture. Playing some actualy games using a new codex a few times doesn't hurt either.

Please read the caveats of my second paragraph. And thanks for showing up.

azazel the cat wrote:

Agamemnon2 wrote:It amuses me that people are crying that Necrons don't have any good antitank firepower. Has the notion of armies having actual weaknesses ever even occurred to your addle-coved imaginings? Clearly not.

And that potential cover is TERRIBLE. Someone should photoshop it into a Manowar album.

necrons already have a weakness: close combat. So if tanks are also a weakness, then it's time for the Necrons to conquer the world of mid-range shooty armies! ...wait. The only mid-range shooty army... are the Necrons.

Sisters. At least your roboskeletons are better than Sisters.

Ascalam wrote:Usually the only people i find touting that armies should have glaring weaknesses are Marine players, with codexes that don't have any glaring weaknesses

Nope. IG.

azazel the cat wrote:I must admit, I'm somewhat concerned that (what I consider to be) the Necron's biggest weakness is still present, and has not actually been addressed at all. Close combat. I'm well aware that there are many shiny new CC-designated units in the new codex, but all the Troops choices seem like they will still be less than worthless in CC. Three different types of Flayed-Ones-on-steroids will in no way prevent either of the two Troops choices from getting swept time and again. Necron Warriors only ever needed some CC wargear options, maybe a power weapon or a two-hands option, like a pistol + CC weapon combo. Instead, we seem to have been given only CC specialty units, which do nothing for the original problem.

Now let's examine the Ghost Ark. I'm operating on the rumours of about 120 points, the ability to resurrect troops, and the teaser shielding. On the table, if any opponent (read: everyone) knows that it can resurrect warriors, then it becomes a target. Which means it lives for about two turns. One turn to wipe out the shield, and one turn to destroy the vehicle. But, it's a transport, so two turns is all it needs to deliver it's warrior payload, then mission accomplished, right? Well, when your 50-point Rhino explodes after delivering its Marines, you don't care. It's only 50 points, and got its job done. But when your 120-point model explodes after delivering its Warriors, you get a little upset, because you paid a very high price for its resurrection ability, which carries within its price the expectation that the vehicle survives more than two turns.

By the way, if I never said it before, I am grateful to Yakface for the info. I don't like much of what I'm hearing, but I'm still glad that I'm hearing it. Please do not ever forget that.

As to anyone who is working within the paradigm of "why don't you just wait and see what the codex says before judging it": This is a pointless argument, because you assume the codex will be wonderful, however this has no more basis than those who assume the codex will be terrible. That is why this is a rumours thread. We speculate and discuss based upon the rumours. I will take my leave from the soapbox, now.

The Royal Court can be broken off, and added to Lead squads. So you can give the Squad the Power weapon, and War sycthe Option that you are talking about. I think this goes a long way in mitigating that problem.

The Ghost Ark is not cheap, and will likely be a priority. But if that keeps your other transports, and your heavy hitting Vehicles around long enough to eliminate the Opponents Anti-Tank, then it's well worth it. We won't know for sure until the Army sees play for a few months though.

Agamemnon2 wrote:

azazel the cat wrote:

Agamemnon2 wrote:It amuses me that people are crying that Necrons don't have any good antitank firepower. Has the notion of armies having actual weaknesses ever even occurred to your addle-coved imaginings? Clearly not.

And that potential cover is TERRIBLE. Someone should photoshop it into a Manowar album.

necrons already have a weakness: close combat. So if tanks are also a weakness, then it's time for the Necrons to conquer the world of mid-range shooty armies! ...wait. The only mid-range shooty army... are the Necrons.

Sisters. At least your roboskeletons are better than Sisters.

I don't play against Sisters all that much, but isn't the Exorcist pretty good at tankbusting? And can't their troops carry melta guns?

Vaktathi wrote:I'm kinda sad the Tomb Stalker didn't make it in, would have added some very cool feel and is an excellent model.

It may yet. There's a precedent with the Terrorgheist for Vampire Counts in White Dwarf, and the Night Spinner for Eldar.
Unlikely, but not impossible.

Sasori wrote:The Royal Court can be broken off, and added to Lead squads. So you can give the Squad the Power weapon, and War sycthe Option that you are talking about. I think this goes a long way in mitigating that problem.

The Ghost Ark is not cheap, and will likely be a priority. But if that keeps your other transports, and your heavy hitting Vehicles around long enough to eliminate the Opponents Anti-Tank, then it's well worth it. We won't know for sure until the Army sees play for a few months though.

The Royal Court point I will concede. That may be just enough to make the difference, there. But as to the issue with the Ghost Ark, I must ask: what 'other transports'? Only the Ghost Ark is a transport. And if you mean the Monolith, I think the price tags prevent spamming vehicles. 2x Monoliths and 2x Ghost Arks will cost 640 points, if the rumours are correct. And that's assuming the transports can be dedicated, because otherwise this exceeds the FOC heavy slots already.

And the Doomsday Ark, if it only gets a single shot per turn if it doesn't move, it had better be very cheap to field. Compare it to something like an Exorcist, or a Rail Gun, or a Longfang, or that horrendous IG thing.

azazel the cat wrote:I must admit, I'm somewhat concerned that (what I consider to be) the Necron's biggest weakness is still present, and has not actually been addressed at all. Close combat. I'm well aware that there are many shiny new CC-designated units in the new codex, but all the Troops choices seem like they will still be less than worthless in CC. Three different types of Flayed-Ones-on-steroids will in no way prevent either of the two Troops choices from getting swept time and again. Necron Warriors only ever needed some CC wargear options, maybe a power weapon or a two-hands option, like a pistol + CC weapon combo. Instead, we seem to have been given only CC specialty units, which do nothing for the original problem.

Troops are all terrible unless they're designed for CC? This is an...odd opinion, to say the least.

What exactly are IG Vets, Kabalite Warriors, or even standard Tactical Marines beating in Assault?

For the most part (except the IG example) it's never been so much about using your Troops to perform Assaults (which is often counterproductive to the stationary nature of holding objectives, as assaults require you to go to the enemy) but having proper specialized Assault units to engage the enemy to keep them off your Troops, or counter-Assault to bail them out or at least prevent a single unit from walking through your lines.

Which is exactly what Necrons used to suffer from. If an Assault unit came to visit them, their options were:

A). Teleport away, contingent on a Monolith/Veil being alive/nearby and surviving the first round of Assault without being Swept
B). Pray a unit of Wraiths or a C'tan are nearby
C). Watch their whole army die

And the idea that Necron Warriors "only ever needed a Pistol + CCW option" is borderline insane, by the way. That would never change anything ever, aside from crippling the one thing they're good at.

Giving them some specialized Assault units is exactly what they needed. Yes, one of the glaring weaknesses of the old book was that Warriors were easy to Sweep off the board, but saying "MAKE WARRIORS AWESOME AT COMBAT!" is oversimplifying things just a bit too much--and honestly missing the cause of the problem. If you have scary things to put in front of the Warriors, people just can't smash into them anymore.

azazel the cat wrote:

Sasori wrote:The Royal Court can be broken off, and added to Lead squads. So you can give the Squad the Power weapon, and War sycthe Option that you are talking about. I think this goes a long way in mitigating that problem.

The Ghost Ark is not cheap, and will likely be a priority. But if that keeps your other transports, and your heavy hitting Vehicles around long enough to eliminate the Opponents Anti-Tank, then it's well worth it. We won't know for sure until the Army sees play for a few months though.

The Royal Court point I will concede. That may be just enough to make the difference, there. But as to the issue with the Ghost Ark, I must ask: what 'other transports'? Only the Ghost Ark is a transport.

The Night Scythe is the Transport for most units. It's a Fast Skimmer with a 15-model capacity.

azazel the cat wrote:

Sasori wrote:The Royal Court can be broken off, and added to Lead squads. So you can give the Squad the Power weapon, and War sycthe Option that you are talking about. I think this goes a long way in mitigating that problem.

The Ghost Ark is not cheap, and will likely be a priority. But if that keeps your other transports, and your heavy hitting Vehicles around long enough to eliminate the Opponents Anti-Tank, then it's well worth it. We won't know for sure until the Army sees play for a few months though.

The Royal Court point I will concede. That may be just enough to make the difference, there. But as to the issue with the Ghost Ark, I must ask: what 'other transports'? Only the Ghost Ark is a transport. And if you mean the Monolith, I think the price tags prevent spamming vehicles. 2x Monoliths and 2x Ghost Arks will cost 640 points, if the rumours are correct. And that's assuming the transports can be dedicated, because otherwise this exceeds the FOC heavy slots already.

And the Doomsday Ark, if it only gets a single shot per turn if it doesn't move, it had better be very cheap to field. Compare it to something like an Exorcist, or a Rail Gun, or a Longfang, or that horrendous IG thing.

The Night Scythe is also a transport. The Ghost Ark is only for warriors. Both of those are Dedicated Transports. The Command barge is a Dedicated transport as well, but I really need to see more info about this before I make any judgements.

The Doomsday Ark, I imagine will probably be in the 130-150 Points range. While it's a Single Shot, it's 72' and is a Str 9 Ap1 Large blast (While not moving). While probably not as good as a Manticore (I assume that's what you are referring to for IG) It's still pretty nice. At that range it shouldn't have to move either.

JGrand wrote:There is waaaay to much whining about how Crons are underpowered when only 1 person here has seen the codex. To all of those discounting Necron vehicles, you do realize that the whole army will be dropping down at AV 13, right?

At 2k 10+ AV 13 vehicles will be a tough nut to crack, even for Psyfleman and Long Fangs. 3 Psyfleman will hit with roughly 10 shots and do on average about 1 glance, 1 pen and 1 glance/pen. Factor in cover saves and that's not a whole lot. Long Fangs average about the same. What seems to be the problem there?

The problem is that these damaged, expensive vehicles are now AV11 open topped non-fast and therefore doomed. So once the first damage result goes though, if the target isn't dead yet, it likely will be.

So far the army seems to depend on short ranged, non-rending, non-AP1, non-melta, non-lance weapons for AT work. That's not a good sign. Not impossible, but not good. Entropic strike sounds good, but then remember that Scarabs no longer move 12" and they still have to hit. Hitting a moving vehicle, you know, that 4+ or 6+ thing. At least it's not a 4+ for the armor reduction to kick in anymore.

Monoliths seem pretty garbage now. The only reason they were good was that you couldn't just melta/lance them to death. Now they are little more than giant 'Suicide melta target here' signs that have to get close to the enemy to do anything. Note the problem with that design?

The Doomsday Ark, I imagine will probably be in the 130-150 Points range. While it's a Single Shot, it's 72' and is a Str 9 Ap1 Large blast (While not moving). While probably not as good as a Manticore (I assume that's what you are referring to for IG) It's still pretty nice. At that range it shouldn't have to move either.


I agree, with a 72" range, I wouldnt move it ever.

The Grog wrote:

JGrand wrote:There is waaaay to much whining about how Crons are underpowered when only 1 person here has seen the codex. To all of those discounting Necron vehicles, you do realize that the whole army will be dropping down at AV 13, right?

At 2k 10+ AV 13 vehicles will be a tough nut to crack, even for Psyfleman and Long Fangs. 3 Psyfleman will hit with roughly 10 shots and do on average about 1 glance, 1 pen and 1 glance/pen. Factor in cover saves and that's not a whole lot. Long Fangs average about the same. What seems to be the problem there?

The problem is that these damaged, expensive vehicles are now AV11 open topped non-fast and therefore doomed.

So far the army seems to depend on short ranged, non-rending, non-AP1, non-melta, non-lance weapons for AT work. That's not a good sign. Not impossible, but not good. Entropic strike sounds good, but then remember that Scarabs no longer move 12" and they still have to hit. Hitting a moving vehicle. At least it's not a 4+ for the armor reduction anymore.

Monoliths seem pretty garbage now. The only reason they were good was that you couldn't just melta/lance them to death. Now they are little more than giant 'Suicide melta target here' signs that have to get close to the enemy to do anything. Note the problem with that design?

Yak posted a long post about the Necron Anti-tank a few pages back, and it looks like we'll have plenty.

Monoliths have had a 35 point reduction, and are still Av 14 all around. They can also fire all their weapons, which includes 4 sets of Heavy 3 Flux Arcs, and The Particle whip. It can also use it's portal to transport units to it, or use it to suck in enemies within 6'. I don't think anyone expected it maintain it's unkillable status from before. Is it Weaker? Yes. Is it Garbage? No I don't think so.

For (rumoured) 12pts each, we shouldn't be expecting Warriors to be a utility unit, able to do any battlefield task with aplomb. Warriors are a shooting unit, always have been, and we shouldn't really expect them to do anything but that, and hold objectives. If you see the opportunity for an enemy CC unit to hit your Warriors, you should take steps to prevent that, instead of expecting Warriors to be able to defeat a dedicated CC unit in close combat. What -has- changed, as others have mentioned, is that we now have the ability to take excellent CC units ourselves, offering a potential counter to our enemies' CC units.

2x Monoliths and 2x Ghost Arks will cost 640 points, if the rumours are correct. And that's assuming the transports can be dedicated, because otherwise this exceeds the FOC heavy slots already

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, Ghost Arks are Dedicated Transports, apparently, nothing else, and Monoliths are single HS choices. Why wouldn't you be able to take 2 Monos in a normal list? The Ghost Arks aren't taking up any slots. Remember Yakface clarified that he meant one Mono per force organisation -choice-, so you can still have up to three monoliths if'n you want.

Anyone else notice the codex cover has the green rods on the weaponry? I am once again thinking the design team simply painted over theirs as the rods are no longer a "selling point" of the army.

The Grog wrote:Monoliths seem pretty garbage now. The only reason they were good was that you couldn't just melta/lance them to death. Now they are little more than giant 'Suicide melta target here' signs that have to get close to the enemy to do anything. Note the problem with that design?

It's impossible to judge Monoliths until we know the exact mechanics of the Portal. Specifically, how it interacts with Assault.

Via the old rules, you could Assault as normal following a Teleport, and even move normally if the Monolith had not yet moved.

Now take that and consider it in conjunction with a unit of Triarch Praetorians. S5 Power Weapons that can potentially perform 21" Assaults (3" effective disembark, 12" move, 6" assault) coming out of the Portal. The rest of the Codex getting better makes the Monolith better by association, because it still has the capability to act as a support vehicle. Staring blindly at the nerfs and declaring it to be garbage is shortsighted.

If the Portal works like it did before, Monoliths compare just fine to something like a Land Raider Crusader. 12 S5 AP4 shots + S8 AP3 Large Blast that can fire at separate targets vs. 6-12 S4 AP5 shots + 4 S6 AP4 Rending shots, one of which can fire at a separate target. Both have similar capabilities as far as delivering Assault units, and the Monolith is ~50 points cheaper and can ignore Shaken/Stunned.

DJ3 wrote:Troops are all terrible unless they're designed for CC? This is an...odd opinion, to say the least.

I didn't say 'designed for CC'. I'd be perfectly happy with 'not drooling invalids'.

DJ3 wrote:What exactly are IG Vets, Kabalite Warriors, or even standard Tactical Marines beating in Assault?

A squad of tactical marines will beat Necrons in assault any day. IG never need to assault because they pound the troops with so many pie plates that assault isn't a necessary option that I'm aware of.

DJ3 wrote:And the idea that Necron Warriors "only ever needed a Pistol + CCW option" is borderline insane, by the way. That would never change anything ever, aside from crippling the one thing they're good at.

Losing combat means you took more wounds than the other guys. My thinking is more swings with weapons in CC = more wounds dealt. 10 Necron warriors get ten Str 4 rolls in CC currently. If some of them were double-fisting weapons, they would get more rolls. More rolls = more potential wounds. More potential wounds = losing combat by a more narrow margin. Narrow margin = more survivability to get the chance to be teleported out of combat.

DJ3 wrote:Giving them some specialized Assault units is exactly what they needed. Yes, one of the glaring weaknesses of the old book was that Warriors were easy to Sweep off the board, but saying "MAKE WARRIORS AWESOME AT COMBAT!" is oversimplifying things just a bit too much--and honestly missing the cause of the problem. If you have scary things to put in front of the Warriors, people just can't smash into them anymore.

Necrons already had specialized combat units. And I didn't say "MAKE WARRIORS AWESOME AT COMBAT!!!1". I said, in very unsimplified terms, that Necrons needed something to allow them to survive combat. You are the one who has oversimplified this. It's not a polarizing issue; there is lots of middle ground between 'awesome at close combat' and 'whatever it is Necrons do in close combat now'. It would just be nice to see Necrons not curl up and get swept so easily, and dedicated CC units will not help the troops avoid this.

azazel the cat wrote:Necrons already had specialized combat units. And I didn't say "MAKE WARRIORS AWESOME AT COMBAT!!!1". I said, in very unsimplified terms, that Necrons needed something to allow them to survive combat. You are the one who has oversimplified this. It's not a polarizing issue; there is lots of middle ground between 'awesome at close combat' and 'whatever it is Necrons do in close combat now'. It would just be nice to see Necrons not curl up and get swept so easily, and dedicated CC units will not help the troops avoid this.

If you don't think having specialized CC units can help prevent your Troops from being swept, then I think we're going to have a disagreement at a very fundamental level in regard to how tactics work.

It seems like you're asking for things to be made easier rather than better. Making Warriors better at CC is easy, but is rather directly opposed to the theme of the army. Giving the player the tools to protect the Warriors is better, but requires you to actually, y'know, make use of them in coordination.

Thank you Yak for giving us these tid bits on info (although it seems some people are having trouble handling them)

I hope you can give us more examples of cool character powers!!

Which of the units can deep strike? (Specifically Triarch Praetorians and Lychguard and the other elites/fast attack/heavy support)

DJ3 wrote:

azazel the cat wrote:Necrons already had specialized combat units. And I didn't say "MAKE WARRIORS AWESOME AT COMBAT!!!1". I said, in very unsimplified terms, that Necrons needed something to allow them to survive combat. You are the one who has oversimplified this. It's not a polarizing issue; there is lots of middle ground between 'awesome at close combat' and 'whatever it is Necrons do in close combat now'. It would just be nice to see Necrons not curl up and get swept so easily, and dedicated CC units will not help the troops avoid this.

If you don't think having specialized CC units can help prevent your Troops from being swept, then I think we're going to have a disagreement at a very fundamental level in regard to how tactics work.

It seems like you're asking for things to be made easier rather than better. Making Warriors better at CC is easy, but is rather directly opposed to the theme of the army. Giving the player the tools to protect the Warriors is better, but requires you to actually, y'know, make use of them in coordination.

What I'm asking for is to be able to field an army that doesn't assume being swept in CC is a given. At present -and assuming I do keep my Necrons- my first thought is to place a line of the guys with shields right in front of the troops phalanx. Shots -maybe- reflected and some CC to protect the phalanx from assault. I just don't like being forced to make my troops constantly edge away so that dedicated CC can get between them and the enemy. It always feels like a sheepdog keeping the herd away from the wolves. Maybe I am just lazy and would prefer the easier option. Honestly, I think my willingness to accept this element of Necron tactics will really depend a lot more on how Phase-Out works in the new Codex. ...Is there any word on that? I don't think I've seen anything either way about it.

Small squads of transported DE Warriors get a blaster. The trueborn get four. Marines get a meltagun. Some other Marines get two. IG Vets get three. Orks get a klaw and can get rokkits. GK Henchmen are actually all armed with special weapons, and small units of Purifiers have two psycannons each. Wracks get a liquifier...

What do those transported Necron Warriors get in the new book? What's their function? They are Space Marine Scouts that can't infiltrate now with no bp/ccw in their backpacks and a ridiculously low initiative and no ATSKNF or other special rules (BA/SW etc). They have the 5+ repair but firstly remember how small a bonus that is (you have 4 guys down, one might stand back up) and the fact that most of the time they will all be down in a phase since the opponent will be focusing the fire. What's the game plan for the Warriors except trying to hide them all game so they could claim an objective later? What's the price tag of an attached Cryptek with some anti-tank weapon like a meltagun or blaster?

Are Immortals troops automatically or does that require a special character? Even though their weapons seem to have been nerfed I can think of a lot more uses for 5man squads of Immortals in Barges or Night Scythes, than Warriors. Atleast they still got 3+ saves and guns that aren't nothing but glorified boltguns.

Large units of Warriors/Immortals are just asking to be wiped out in one brutal phase of close combat so you'll be using min-sized squads just like everyone else. It's pretty bad for Necrons that when you take small squads you won't get your repair rolls to shooting, and when you take a large squad you're putting yourself in an awful place regarding assault. The troops choices don't seem very useful at all and you'll want to invest as little points in them as you can get away with.

azazel the cat wrote:As to anyone who is working within the paradigm of "why don't you just wait and see what the codex says before judging it": This is a pointless argument, because you assume the codex will be wonderful, however this has no more basis than those who assume the codex will be terrible. That is why this is a rumours thread. We speculate and discuss based upon the rumours. I will take my leave from the soapbox, now.

While I disagree bitterly with most of the things you've posted, I'll back you up 100% here.

We're discussing the codex based on the pieces of information that are available to us, and it's perfectly fine to isolate what we know for the purposes of discussion. It's impossible to take a instantaneous, holistic view of a codex (even after it's released); you build your opinion brick-by-brick, and right now we're dealing with the first shipment of bricks.

eg. If an important weapon is reported to be S4, and you think that is insufficient, it makes so much more sense to say "I don't think that S4 weapon will be sufficient" than it does to say "well maybe the book will contain another rule that makes an insufficient S4 weapon sufficient!"

I remember being told the same things during the pre-leaks of the Tyranid codex, and then when it was all said and done every dire prediction that was extrapolated from uncertain rumours turned out to be accurate.

Wonder if night-scythes will look cool, not a big fan of the warrior transport look.

Therion wrote:Small squads of transported DE Warriors get a blaster. The trueborn get four. Marines get a meltagun. Some other Marines get two. IG Vets get three. Orks get a klaw and can get rokkits. GK Henchmen are actually all armed with special weapons, and small units of Purifiers have two psycannons each. Wracks get a liquifier...

What do those transported Necron Warriors get in the new book? What's their function? They are Space Marine Scouts that can't infiltrate now with no bp/ccw in their backpacks and a ridiculously low initiative and no ATSKNF or other special rules (BA/SW etc). They have the 5+ repair but firstly remember how small a bonus that is (you have 4 guys down, one might stand back up) and the fact that most of the time they will all be down in a phase since the opponent will be focusing the fire. What's the game plan for the Warriors except trying to hide them all game so they could claim an objective later? What's the price tag of an attached Cryptek with some anti-tank weapon like a meltagun or blaster?

Are Immortals troops automatically or does that require a special character? Even though their weapons seem to have been nerfed I can think of a lot more uses for 5man squads of Immortals in Barges or Night Scythes, than Warriors. Atleast they still got 3+ saves and guns that aren't nothing but glorified boltguns.

Large units of Warriors/Immortals are just asking to be wiped out in one brutal phase of close combat so you'll be using min-sized squads just like everyone else. It's pretty bad for Necrons that when you take small squads you won't get your repair rolls to shooting, and when you take a large squad you're putting yourself in an awful place regarding assault. The troops choices don't seem very useful at all and you'll want to invest as little points in them as you can get away with.

Oh, thank Jebus someone else sees the same problem that I do. I was worried that absolutely everyone was drinking the Kool-Aid.