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Honestly John I have to agree with you,given GWs current love affair with special characters,any codex release is bound to be loaded with such rulings.
It's truly disheartning to see how unimaginitive GW is becoming.

Yep. The only thing worse than what we have today is what GW is going to give us tomorrow.

What do I want in the new Chaos codex?

That's easy.

Besides the obvious (mutations and just a better codex)

Chaos Steeds that you can mount your squads on. Even a Chaos Space Marine should be able to ride one. If you want your whole army to ride steeds, so be it.

More interesting daemon weapons.

Bonuses for using sacred numbers.

Once again I must point out that this is a 'proposed rules' forum, so pointing out what GW will or might do is completely pointless.

Something John continues to forget...

Screw an apology!

I think all the CSM players of Dakka should get five minutes each with a tied up Jervis in a sound proof room *Cracks Knuckes*

*Shadowbrand unzips his pant's* *Screams of agony and oh god not the powerfist!!!!*

Shadowbrand wrote:

Screw an apology!

I think all the CSM players of Dakka should get five minutes each with a tied up Jervis in a sound proof room *Cracks Knuckes*

*Shadowbrand unzips his pant's* *Screams of agony and oh god not the powerfist!!!!*

I laughed so much I just pissed myself.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Yep. The only thing worse than what we have today is what GW is going to give us tomorrow.

Again,I agree,when it comes to GW,the suprises (wanted or not) never stop.
However,I would prefer to simply have the option to create my own characters (HQs),rather than have to follow some arbitrary system of "..and If you take Kharn,you then unlock the wonderful world of World Eaters",that in and of itself is simply ridiculous and would defeat the whole purpose of being able to "create" your own Legions background.

But isn't that the point?

C: CSM is about creating your own Traitor Marine force.

C: Legions is picking one specific, predefined, specialized set of rules for the oldest and most canonical Traitor Legions. The Legion background is largely fixed in stone for 4 or 5 Fluff iterations, so the idea people can make their own not-Kharn for a World Eaters Legion Berzerker just doesn't work.

In many ways, C: Legions would be a pseudo-historical list, which is why each list would be so restrictive in terms of what it contains, and why it is structured a certain way.

That is, I would like C: Legions to have a World Eaters list that has a "World Eaters Berzerker" Troops entry that is a fixed cost for *exactly* 8 Berzerkers led by a Champion of Khorne. The Champion and Berzerkers would then have options for Khornate Chain Axes and Axes of Khorne.

The Emperor's Children list would have a Troops entry for "Emperor's Children Marine", with a fixed cost for *exactly* 6 Noise Marines with Sonic Blasters, with options for Doom Siren and Blastmaster.

And so on.

By locking the options down like Eldar Aspects, it becomes very easy for GW to make these lists balanced and chromey.

In many ways, I think that Space Wolves is a predecessor template for coming Chaos Legions, but that's just me guessing ahead of the curve.

While I agree that Legions would of course be predifined to a certian extent,my point is that I don't want to see the " Character X unlocks option Y" spill over in to a Legions book.
for example,one decides to play a World eaters army,the options to take Kharn,create your own Berzerker lord,your own Daemon prince with suitable Khornate wargear and powers should all be there,along with the options to take a mixture of Khorne based elites and troops,as well as heavys.
So one could have an army with a Daemon prince and a Lord,backed by terminators & (functioning) possesd,with lots of berzerkers and bloodletters,some dreadnoughts and defielers..or any other type of variation,still funtioning with in the perimeters of a World Eaters army.
Legions ..but with flexability and options with in the established framework of a chosen set.

The thing is, Berzerker warbands are at least as specialist as any of the other SC-driven armies out there, if not moreso, so a required SC HQ seems pretty obvious.

I think your suggested WE army is about as far as it could go in terms of variety, although I'd swap Possessed for Chosen and add Bloodcrushers & Hounds (remember?):

1 Kharne, MoK DP, MoK Lord
WE Termies, WE Chosen, MoK Dread
WE Berzerkers, Bloodletters
Hounds, Bloodcrushers
MoK Defiler, MoK Land Raider

JohnHwangDD wrote:The thing is, Berzerker warbands are at least as specialist as any of the other SC-driven armies out there, if not moreso, so a required SC HQ seems pretty obvious.

I think your suggested WE army is about as far as it could go in terms of variety, although I'd swap Possessed for Chosen and add Bloodcrushers & Hounds (remember?):

1 Kharne, MoK DP, MoK Lord
WE Termies, WE Chosen, MoK Dread
WE Berzerkers, Bloodletters
Hounds, Bloodcrushers
MoK Defiler, MoK Land Raider

Even though the above list is a fair represintation of most of the choices that would be avalible in a Legions WE list,with the inclusion of rhinos and various khornate war gear and options,there is a multitude of varities in which the units could be assembled,leading to lots of different flavorful combinations all from just the WE list.
Add to this the other "big 3",plus perhaps a variant list to represent Night Lords,Word Bearers,Alpha Legion etc,and a Legions codex could be loaded with variations,which exactly how Chaos should be done.
As for Black Legion and "renegades",they have a perfectly servisable codex now with the current CSM dex.

If the Big 4 go to Legions, that opens space for the MoCU Legions to be addressed in C: CSM.

JohnHwangDD wrote:The thing is, Berzerker warbands are at least as specialist as any of the other SC-driven armies out there, if not moreso, so a required SC HQ seems pretty obvious.

I think your suggested WE army is about as far as it could go in terms of variety, although I'd swap Possessed for Chosen and add Bloodcrushers & Hounds (remember?):

1 Kharne, MoK DP, MoK Lord
WE Termies, WE Chosen, MoK Dread
WE Berzerkers, Bloodletters
Hounds, Bloodcrushers
MoK Defiler, MoK Land Raider

Why do berserker Warbands needs a special Character? The fluff states that after a period of time in the Eye, the World Eater's legion started fighting amongst themselves and seperated into smaller warbands. Now every warband isn't going to have a Kharne now is it? So realistically allowing for customisable generic options and god specific upgrades would be much more servicable then just hitting up more herohammer.

For our Cult Legion's sublists, we're looking along the lines of:

HQ:
Cult-Specific Lord
Cult-Specific Sorcerer Lord (where applicable - obviously Khorne won't have these)
Cult-Specific Lieutenant
Cult-Specific Sorcerer (where applicable)
God-Specific Herald
God-Specific Greater Daemon

Elite:
Cult-Specific Chosen
Legion Veterans (the absolute elite of the elite, the actual 10,000-year-old fought on Terra during the Heresy-style veterans)
God-Specific Elite Daemon (Fiends, Bloodcrushers, etc.)
Cult-Specific Possessed

Troops:
Cult-Specific Marine Squad (eg. Khorne Berzerkers, with all the upgrades from Chaos Marine to Khorne Berzerker factored in)
God Specific Troops Daemons (eg. for World Eaters, it'd be Bloodletters, and so on)

Fast Attack:
Cult-Specific Fast Squad (for World Eaters, it's World Eater Assault Squads with ye olde style Jump Packs, plus World Eater Bikers)
God-Specific Fast Attack Daemons (eg. Flesh Hounds)
God-Specific Spawn (we have rules for all four types of Spawn + Undivided)

Heavy Support:
Cult-Specific Havoc Squad (where applicable)
Various Chaos Vehicles

The idea is to have one or two unique units that only show up in a specific Cult Army list, even if they're an archetype - so World Eater/Death Guard/Emperor's Children Veterans are similar in what place they occupy within the list, but are different units. Coming up with unique units is harder than it seems, and I've only really thought about the World Eaters so far (with their Assault Marines).

Thousand Sons are a different kettle of fish entirely, as there are two sides to the 1KSons - those that stayed with Ahriman, and those that stayed with Magnus.

As for the other Legions, well there's not a huge amount to do with them except make things come as standard - so an Alpha Legionnaire squad would just be a Chaos Marine Squad that has Infiltrate as standard, and the option to buy the MoCU or not. Iron Warriors I'd want to expand, and drag Hellcannons into 40K kicking and screaming as a Daemonic Siege Weapon for IW (Chaos Squat crew?).

Just make them all different, even if the framework behind it is the same.

Winter wrote:Now every warband isn't going to have a Kharne now is it?

Every Marine army has a Vulkan. Every Eldar army has an Eldrad. Every Daemons army has a Fateweaver?

Why should World Eaters, in the era of Jervis, be any different?

Do you change the Mark of Khorne for Havoc Squads? (If it is even available)

Like, make you able to reroll to wound or something?

Well, I want my EC Havocs squad with up to 4 blastmasters back.

Vladsimpaler wrote:Do you change the Mark of Khorne for Havoc Squads? (If it is even available)

Dunno yet. Representing martial prowess with HTH is easy. Representing it in a shooting unit that's already good at shooting could be unbalancing.

It's obvious. Separate lists for the Traitor Legions who fought during the Horus Heresy and those who have turned to chaos more recently, say since the Badab War. The recent renegades could have those icons, to represent their reduced status in the eyes of the Chaos Gods while the Legion marines are more chaotic. However, the Renegades should have access to stuff like Landspeeders and Razorbacks.

And use a spell checker, people. Damn!

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Vladsimpaler wrote:Do you change the Mark of Khorne for Havoc Squads? (If it is even available)

Dunno yet. Representing martial prowess with HTH is easy. Representing it in a shooting unit that's already good at shooting could be unbalancing.

Can't you just have it where the Havoc squad is forced to take 8 guys if they want the Mark of Khorne? (This is assuming that this unbalances them)

I suppose you -could- give them a sort of Tankbusta drawback in that they have to fire at the nearest enemy or something but then that might make them stink.

Just a thought of course.

I took the following from my other thread. I looked but didn't see this one before I started the other one.

Ok so I for one was all over the Gav Thorpe web blog last week and I know a lot of forums are popping up like this, but i am jumping on the bandwagon before the train leaves the station. Below I am going to add my fixes, suggestions, additions, etc. which pertain to the contemporary Co: CSM. My Goals is that other dakka readers will then add to my suggestions and by the end maybe someone at GW will have a real nice piece of market research. Its a win-win for all parties. I beg of future posters, please keep all comments and criticisms moving the conversation in a positive direction. It is by all means ok to disagree with someone's ideas but please give a reason why and what change you think would help.

Now, without further ado, my list of Improvements to Co: CSM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All the following suggestion will be supplanted with the current (as of 2009) Co: CSM as a foundation. It is assumed that if it is not mentioned here that it exists as is and should not be assumed to have been eliminated. Point Costs may in many circumstances require adjusting and no point costs have been provided herein.

I. Co: CSM may ally with Co: Chaos Deamons
.....A) I have not worked out the limitations here or how they will enter play to keep it from being

II. Special Characters and HQ choices
.....A) No changes to Special Character Typhus, Ahriman, Kharn, Lucious, Fabius or Huron as they all have legion specific troop choices at their disposal or have general access to the entire Codex and such additions to their profiles are quite unnecessary given the nature of Co: CSM.
.....B) Special Character Abaddon the Despoiler
..........1) Inspiring Presence: All friendly units within 12” of Abaddon receive +1 Attacks whilst he lives. this bonus does not apply to Abaddon nor does it stack with similar bonuses.
.....C) HQ: Dark Apostle (Word Bearers Special Character)
..........1) Comparable war gear to Co: SM Chaplain
..........2) Provides +1 to every summoning roll
..........3) Concerning Possessed CSM, player may re-roll the results of the Possession Table but must use the second outcome.
..........4) Entire force is granted the “Fearless” USR
.....D) HQ: Warsmith (Iron Warriors Special Character)
..........1) Comparable war gear to Co: SM Master of the Forge
...............a) No Conversion Beamer
..........2) Makes Basilisk Tanks available Heavy option
...............a) (1-3); squadrons not permitted
..........3) One additional Heavy Slot may replace an Elite Slot on the FOC
..........4) Entire force is granted “Stubborn” USR
.....E) HQ: Talon Master (Night Lords Special Character)
..........1) Entire force is granted the following USRs:
...............a) “Hit and Run”,
....................i) I have heard strong arguments in favor of "Stealth" over "Hit and Run" see this needs fleshing out
...............b) “Night Vision”, and
...............c) “Move Through Cover”
..........2) Optional Jet Pack
..........3) Forces led by NLSC may not take any Marks or Units which are specific to a Ruinous Power. Only Followers of Chaos Undivided are permitted.
.....F) HQ: Stealth Leader (Alpha Legion Special Character)
..........1) Gift of Prescience: If your army contains ALSC, you can choose to re-roll any reserve rolls- even successful ones.
..........2) Any unit ALSC attaches to gains the “Out Flank” USR
..........3) A roll to “steal the initiative” by controlling player is successful on a D6 roll of 5+.
...............a) This could be simplified to the Co: SM version whereby the "steal the initiative" roll may be re-rolled once...
.....G) Lords, Sorcerors, Deamon Princes
..........1) Full layout of war gear options will be made available to these generic HQ choices
..........2) Demon weapons, wings/jetpacks, bikes, marks, icons, combi weapons, armor, etc. etc. will be optional for all
..........3) Demon Princes are (0-1)
.....H) HQ Retinues
..........1) Chosen may be taken as HQ retinue. Chosen may be upgraded with terminator armor (Terminator Asp. Champs) if HQ is donning terminator armor.

III. Currently Existing Unit Changes
.....A) Dreadnaughts
..........1) Eliminate Dreadnought table
..........2) New War Gear
...............a) Seismic Hammer
...............b) Extra Armor
..........3) Marks specific war gear
...............a) Slaanesh: Sonic Weaponry (dirge castors, sonic blasters etc)
...............b) Nurgle: Nurgling distractions (Eliminates charge bonus like defensive grenades)
...............c) Khorne: Rending Chain Fists (this may not be as helpful since rending was nerfed)
...............d) Tzeetch: Twin-linked heavy bolters with inferno bolts
.....B) Possessed CSM
..........1) Lower points
..........2) roll on the table PRIOR to deployment.
..........3) may take marks as well
.....C) CSM Bikers
..........1) Chaos Biker Shock Upgrade (representing the affect of all those bike mounted blades)
...............a) Works similarly to Tank Shock however the maneuver occurs in the assault phase and all normal actions may be taken prior to it. If you turbo boost in the movement phase then you may not Biker Shock.

IV. New/Additional War Gear Options
.....A) Bionic Limbs/Mutations: +1 WS
.....B) Chain Axes: +1 S
..........1) Note: Will be already included in Berserker profile as chain axes are their weapon of choice and so as to avoid over powering them.
.....C) Collar of Khorn: immunizes wearer from affects of psychic abilities
.....D) Icon of Chaos = Locator Beacons/teleport homers
.....E) Power Mace = Thunder Hammer
.....F) Spiky Bits = Digital weapons
.....G) Stigmata = Iron Halo
..........1) Represented by fresh wounds, scars, or other marks usually found on the bearer’s head or chest
.....H) Trophy Rack
..........1) Gives “Preferred Enemy” USR to entire unit.
.....I) Plague Knives and Plague Swords and Blight Grenades to be optional replacements for champs with Mark of Nurgle
.....J) Asp Champs with Mark of Tzeetch should be allowed to upgrade to sorcerers with access to one psychic power

V. Transport
.....A) Dread Claw = Drop pod
..........1) No inertial guidance system
...............a) May land on difficult or dangerous terrain but Units disembarking must take tests as normal.
...............b) Impassable terrain will be automatically avoided by reducing the scatter by the unnecessary distance.
...............c) If a dread claw lands on an opposing unit then the foe must roll a leadership test to either move out of the way are risk breaking.
..........2) No Deathwind Launcher upgrade
..........3) No locator beacon upgrade
.....B) Sonic Weaponry Transport War Gear
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Alright there you have it, my thoughts on some of the additions, chances, and over-all suggestions to improve on the current Co: CSM

Sorry if this is hard to read!

Might want to stay in this thread as well. The other thread is just full of "Oh you just what your cheesy armies back" whiners.

Yeah, they tend to troll threads like these.

I was thinking about it and I feel that the price of some choices should drop a little bit for what they do. (Oblits, Cult troops, Dreads ect ect)

My general issue with the CSM codex is that once the SM codex was released a lot of the uniqueness was trumped or replaced. With that in mine, here are my suggestions:

General rules:
Marks need to be reworked and really need only apply to certain units. They also need to apply to everything in the same way. Icon need to go away.
- If a mark is taken, it applies to the whole unit. No more icon bearers.
- Khorne = +1 attack, +1 WS, furious charge, fearless, cannot take heavy or assault weapons, cannot be taken by Havoks or Sorcerers
- Nurgle = +toughness, -1 initiative, feel no pain, fearless, cannot be taken by Raptors
- Tzeentch = +1 invulnerable or 4+ save, inferno bolts, slow and purposeful unless & can't take any unit upgrades unless IC or AC, fearless
- Slaanesh = +1 initiative, access to sonic weapons, fearless
- Undivided = can reroll leadership, fearless if on an IC

HQ selections with issues
- 4 greater demons return to replace the lol generic demon.
- Lord changed to S5 and T5. CSM are supposed to more fighty than SM, hence these increases instead of 4+ invulnerable.
- Demon weapons give straight +to stats. Randomness = BAD. Remove the take a wound on rolling a 1. Demon princes can take them as well.
- All psychic powers reworked.
- I'm not covering special characters.

Elites
- Dread frenzy rule changed to more useful. Dread changed to a MC with wounds and toughness
- Possessed abilities are chosen, not rolled.
- Reaper Autocannon reworked to be a better use of it's points.
- Terminators get +1 attack due to spikey weapons, think 2nd edition.
- Chosen get 2 attacks across the board w/ slight points increase OR they can infiltrate regardless of mission.

Troops
- 4 types of lesser demons return to replace the lol generic demons.
- Rest remains the same, but CSM can't take a mark. Marks are already shown in the specific troop types.
- Add a cultist option, see IG penal legion or conscripts.

Fast Attack
- Return of the specific demons.
- I'd like to remove spawn as they are a joke. Spawn should be deep strikable.
- Add another fast attack choice. I don't know what it would be, but I'm thinking a vehicle.

Heavy Support
- Defiler needs to return to a ranged unit.
- Land Raider needs capacity 12

Techboss wrote:
Marks need to be reworked and really need only apply to certain units. They also need to apply to everything in the same way. Icon need to go away.
- If a mark is taken, it applies to the whole unit. No more icon bearers.
- Khorne = +1 attack, +1 WS, furious charge, fearless, cannot take heavy or assault weapons, cannot be taken by Havoks or Sorcerers
- Nurgle = +toughness, -1 initiative, feel no pain, fearless, cannot be taken by Raptors

Besides the obvious, Sorcerors not following khorne, what is your rationale for disallowing certain unit choices from taking marks? A bloated marine with mosquito wings would be awesome and a havok getting senseless pleasure from over killing an opponent with heavy weapons just screams kill; maim; burn!

I think these limitations are unnecessary, personally.

Dont have the 3.5 codex hand to check up but If im remembering correctly I still feel that the 3.5 system worked the best and feel that it should never have been changed.

It would be nice if affinities to Chaos Gods mattered again, seeing berzerkers existing on the same table as a Slaneesh sorcerer still makes me wince a bit.

Besides that, stuff that has been said a lot on this thread (daemon variety, the other Legions, etc.) so i don't think there's a whole lot of point in repeating it

I'm going to get flamed for this but I feel strongly about trying to "fix" a workable -if comparatively bland- codex. As I've said before any changes that bring back the diversity and feel of the old dex I'm more than fine with; no one wants to play with a boring codex. but I must take issue with bringing back any of the old er, umm, well I can't say the C word for fear of verbal assassination...

Before you get too eager to bring back legion rules remember that those rules came with some pretty hefty restrictions on your FOC and you currently have none of those restrictions. If you recall, in order for any of the cult troops to be a Troops choice they had to have a lord with the matching Mark. I don't remember seeing anyone suggest that. Currently CSM has the most diverse and powerful troops section in an edition of the game which requires troops to win 66% of the time.

And now at the risk of being called a troll and sending HBMC into a frothing rage I'm going to do what I did to Deuce11 but I will attempt to be more constructive and less of a donkey-cave about it (sorry deuce).

Techboss wrote:My general issue with the CSM codex is that once the SM codex was released a lot of the uniqueness was trumped or replaced. With that in mine, here are my suggestions:

General rules:
Marks need to be reworked and really need only apply to certain units. They also need to apply to everything in the same way. Icon need to go away.
- If a mark is taken, it applies to the whole unit. No more icon bearers.
- Khorne = +1 attack, +1 WS, furious charge, fearless, cannot take heavy or assault weapons, cannot be taken by Havoks or Sorcerers
- Nurgle = +toughness, -1 initiative, feel no pain, fearless, cannot be taken by Raptors
- Tzeentch = +1 invulnerable or 4+ save, inferno bolts, slow and purposeful unless & can't take any unit upgrades unless IC or AC, fearless
- Slaanesh = +1 initiative, access to sonic weapons, fearless
- Undivided = can reroll leadership, fearless if on an IC
All of these seem fine as long as the point costs differ per unit as they would undoubtedly be better on termies than on grunt
HQ selections with issues
- 4 greater demons return to replace the lol generic demon. Yeah the generic daemon is kinda like the slowed cousin of the "real" GD's
- Lord changed to S5 and T5. CSM are supposed to more fighty than SM, hence these increases instead of 4+ invulnerable. I might be okay with S5 but T5 sounds a little too good since the MoN would then put him well out of the range of being wounded reliably by anything other than a MC and surely that doesn't seem balanced does it?
- Demon weapons give straight +to stats. Randomness = BAD. Remove the take a wound on rolling a 1. Demon princes can take them as well. It seems to me that chaos has always been a little random- not ork random mind you but random nonetheless.
- All psychic powers reworked. Couldn't agree more. It saddens me to see chaos obliged to use lash EVERY SINGLE TIME
- I'm not covering special characters.

Elites
- Dread frenzy rule changed to more useful. Dread changed to a MC with wounds and toughness ?? I can see neither fluff or rules justification or precedent for this one.
- Possessed abilities are chosen, not rolled. I agree. I can't see why they were made so random.
- Reaper Autocannon reworked to be a better use of it's points. Or make it cheaper. you're already better at combat and more versatile at shooting than regular termies thanks to combi weapons.
- Terminators get +1 attack due to spikey weapons, think 2nd edition. Not unless you're willing to pay an extra 10 points per model (which is what daemonic mutation used to cost on a non- character) and even then I don't think fluff justifies it (this game has little in common with 2nd ed.).
- Chosen get 2 attacks across the board w/ slight points increase OR they can infiltrate regardless of mission. as much as I'd like to say "my vets are cooler than your vets" I have to agree on this point. I think the extra attack makes more sense.
Troops
- 4 types of lesser demons return to replace the lol generic demons. Sure.
- Rest remains the same, but CSM can't take a mark. Marks are already shown in the specific troop types. What about MoCU? In fact maybe that could come standard since CU doesn't have it's own troops choice.
- Add a cultist option, see IG penal legion or conscripts. Conscript rules would be Ideal IMO but weren't they alpha legion only?

Fast Attack
- Return of the specific demons.
- I'd like to remove spawn as they are a joke. Spawn should be deep strikable. Yeah they should have some kind of save for their price. Why deep strike?
- Add another fast attack choice. I don't know what it would be, but I'm thinking a vehicle.

Heavy Support
- Defiler needs to return to a ranged unit. You mean like a better BS? I could go for that.
- Land Raider needs capacity 12 A month ago I would have said yes, undoubtedly- but the Wolves' LR is apparently 10 as well. Some have suggested that that's for the keg though...

Mostly what look for when I go though these wish lists is not to systematically crush dreams but to point out units that have no fluff backing or precedent. Of course if phil kelly does your next codex all bets are off. I'm hoping he does BA and I get marines riding giant bats!
*wraithlordmechanic crosses fingers*

okay now that that's done you may flame if you want.
P.S. If it makes you feel better I also looked over the Eldar proposed "fix" and saw that it was so out of left field that I didn't know where to begin.

Well, I'm a bit off-topic,
but what I do not want is the lash of submission for CSM armies
that include icons or marks from gods other than Slaanesh.

Wraithlordmechanic wrote:All of these seem fine as long as the point costs differ per unit as they would undoubtedly be better on termies than on grunt Obviously
I might be okay with S5 but T5 sounds a little too good since the MoN would then put him well out of the range of being wounded reliably by anything other than a MC and surely that doesn't seem balanced does it? This goes as part of the points discussion above.
It seems to me that chaos has always been a little random- not ork random mind you but random nonetheless.I could live with the randomness, but the take a wound on a 1 needs to be removed.
?? I can see neither fluff or rules justification or precedent for this one.See wraithlord for the rules justification for a AV walker becoming a wounds/toughness model. Fluff wise, the Dread is corrupted by a demons ....
Not unless you're willing to pay an extra 10 points per model (which is what daemonic mutation used to cost on a non- character) and even then I don't think fluff justifies it (this game has little in common with 2nd ed.). This offsets the cheese shield that currently exists for SM termies.
What about MoCU? In fact maybe that could come standard since CU doesn't have it's own troops choice.I forgot to add this comment, the default mark should be undivided.
Conscript rules would be Ideal IMO but weren't they alpha legion only?If you read Storm of Iron, IW also use traitor guard which could be lumped into the "cultist" bucket.
You mean like a better BS? I could go for that.Indirect fire, increased BS. The model was originally intended to be ranged and my only guess is that the GW suites thought they weren't selling enough, so it was changed to melee to make people redo their models or buy new ones.
A month ago I would have said yes, undoubtedly- but the Wolves' LR is apparently 10 as well. Some have suggested that that's for the keg though... SW have access to the Crusader as well, meaning the transport capacity becomes a negligble point. The SM land raider also has the "machine spirit" option which makes it a bit more useful

Deuce11 wrote:Besides the obvious, Sorcerors not following khorne, what is your rationale for disallowing certain unit choices from taking marks? A bloated marine with mosquito wings would be awesome and a havok getting senseless pleasure from over killing an opponent with heavy weapons just screams kill; maim; burn!

This was more for the fluff nazis, but I don't personally care if anything can take any mark.

wuestenfux wrote:Well, I'm a bit off-topic,
but what I do not want is the lash of submission for CSM armies
that include icons or marks from gods other than Slaanesh.

I have to agree with you,while Chaos undivided needs representation in a new codex,I do belive that the Lash prince/Berzerker,PM/Oblit list isn't necasarily the way to do it.
Perhaps ensuring that if an HQ has a Mark then at least two troops must either have that same mark,or no mark at all?