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Under his logic, why bother writing a fething codex at all? Really?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I mean, should we just call it Codex:MakeupyourowndamnrulesPanFoHOOOOOOOOO!

the_emperors_renegade wrote:okay to make it clear there are only 3 problems with the csm codex 3 alright THREE!NOT A WHOLE BOOK ONLY THREE!!!

I'm right and you're wrong! If I say nothing is wrong then NOTHING IS WRONG! DON'T ARGUE WITH ME!

Yeah, there are more than 3 problems with the codex by the way, and I highly doubt you're going to convince anyone otherwise.

olympia wrote:Poor little CSM--dual lash not cheesy enough for ya?

There's about 6 pages of thread you forgot to read, methinks.

Mod: Clearly it's impossible for this topic to be debated further without shenanigans, so I'll lock it.

If people want to seriously discuss the CSM Codex or its author, please start another topic and stay on it rather than spiralling into ad hominem posts.

Actually, if it is OK, I'd like to re-open this thread so that H.B.M.C. can report in it IF Gav ever responds to his post in his Blog.

So, having said that, I'll be keeping a close watch on this thread.

Any violations of Dakka's rules will be dealt with.

Harshly.

Or you can simply read Gav's blog and let H.B.M.C continue his crusade in another thread.

But Nurglitch, the world stops for h.b.m.c.

Exactly Kilkrazy, exactly.

Nurglitch wrote:Or you can simply read Gav's blog and let H.B.M.C continue his crusade in another thread.

I suppose I could do that, but I'd rather have happen what I've already outlined.

'k?

Considering everyone of HBMC's questions are worded either rhetorically or antagonistically, I can't really see why he would bother to respond.

edit: To make myself more clear. Gav Thorpe is no longer part of the GW studio team, hence talking with him isn't really going to achieve anything as far as actual change is concerned, so it starts to become more of a 'I'm right, you're wrong' conversation, which I doubt he will entertain on his own blog if at all. Of course if someone were to ask him a genuine question of why Gavin put such and such in the codex, without laying out their own beliefs of why they think he did it before hand, he will probably make an effort to answer. Now to me HBMC's comment, and to be fair a few others posted there, didn't really seem to do that. Rather, they made clear what they thought was right then asked Gav why he did it differently. Do you honestly think he's going to even bother trying to prove them wrong? Do you think he even wants to? I don't think he's that stupid. I would imagine he already knows that 'nobody ever makes anyone change their mind on the internet' and if he knows the slightest thing about HBMC he will certainly know he can't change his mind. So the point of him replying would be?

How much do you think Gav reads these blogs? He posted more than a couple of links to dakka in his OP. Are there any known BL authors or GW cronies that post here?

Lint wrote:How much do you think Gav reads these blogs? He posted more than a couple of links to dakka in his OP. Are there any known BL authors or GW cronies that post here?

*Cues the reminiscing of Paul Sawyer's brief stay at Dakka*

Didn't it last around an hour?

Ah, sweet rage.

Mithrax wrote:

Lint wrote:How much do you think Gav reads these blogs? He posted more than a couple of links to dakka in his OP. Are there any known BL authors or GW cronies that post here?

*Cues the reminiscing of Paul Sawyer's brief stay at Dakka*

Didn't it last around an hour?

Where are the manuscripts? I must scry this with extreme prejudice...

According to his blog he Googled the Dakka links.

whatwhat wrote:... Gav Thorpe is no longer part of the GW studio team, hence talking with him isn't really going to achieve anything as far as actual change is concerned,...

So what? Who says "actual change" is the only concern? Prehaps gaining a further insight into a former designer, and therefore possibly into the process GW uses, would be reason enough to bother with it.

Alpha opens the thread, and within two posts we have people coming after me. Such a charming place this can be...

Whoa, I was looking for a topic in the 40k boards about this and just saw this now from the main forum. 6 pages already, jeez.

Anyways, I would just like to "tag" this topic as Im sure I will forget and I too would like to see a reply to HBMC's comment.

H

Should ease off a little. There is no way that Gav Thorpe was individually and solely responsible for the CSM codex.

I agree that it was a vast disappointment after the "cultural riches" of the Haines dex.

But company decisions of this nature are made by the studio heads, Gav was the errand boy who needed to write it but he wasn't the one who decided to make a seperate set of Demon codex's, which was the real decision behind the new CSM dex.

The big mistake was creating a vague commitment to do Chaos legions sometime in the future, so Chaos players ended up with two new codexes which between them destroyed every army list ever assembled in the service of the dark gods,

And then bring out a set of rules which at present still offers no serious options to play any of the Chaos legions, Night Lords, Iron Legion or anything else anyone ever wanted to field.

It is an absolute design fiasco!

Complete fething stupidity!

And it was motivated by the greedy logic that offering fairly broken power play in a demon codex would be a better way to sell models.

So they created broken Demon lists, and then just invented one of the most ridiculous inprovised and disgusting rules of all time: That half the demon army was in reserve and came in from reserve! So much for the player having to use tactics and strategy! Lets have a dumb-assed rules that makes the biggest tactical decisions for you. Its just a way to water down a list that can take like 4 Major demons HQ!!!!! If they didn't invent broken lists in the first place they wouldn't need to add slowed "apology to your opponent" rules like that! THe Hain's Dex tended towards broken builds, but some astute editing would have been better than what they did.

The Demons codex is a true abortion, and the blame for CSM becoming a rudderless, cultureless orphan of the great Hain's dex is all about how we were supposed to feel good about Demons!

What a farce!

The brains trust: (and you have to blame Jervis if anyone, since he probably has the seniority to make the call) : made a right mess of it.

The real and obvious answer in terms of culture and gaming was to bring out 5 Chaos codexes:

One for each power and one for Chaos undivided.

Obviously they were crippled by their culture of gradual product evolution from making the hard choice of doing it right.

The business model trumped the cultural need.

In this case a mistake!

The problem is that there is actually so much fluff and there are so many established army conventions that they could easily make 5 chaos codexes with a 100 pages each.

That is how much chaos gaming culture they have accumulated over the years.

Those 500 (missing) pages are what the chaos players are pissed off about.

And now back into the gradual release of product, it will be 7th edition in 2020 that would be the time line for Chaos done right.

Our only hope is that legions comes out sometime before 2015 and restores something that was lost.

But computer games keep getting netter, who knows maybe by then, most of us would have finally grown up and escaped the hobby, or moved on to other things.

OTG.

Kilkrazy wrote:

<3333333!!!

Ease off a bit? Why? To what end? If people want to write lengthy diatribes then a word-based medium is perfect for it. And just because you don't want to read it doesn't mean others feel similarly.

How's about you easin off, then?

Am I the only one who doesn't think there's anything wrong with HBMC's post? Okay, maybe he could have written one or two things differently but you're making it sound like it's nothing but one big personal attack, and that he's frothing at the mouth with rage at Gav when I just don't see it.

I think his argument makes sense and I'd really be interested in seeing what Gav has to say about it, even though we pretty much know what he's going to say already...he'll either ignore it entirely because, as some people here would have you believe anyway, any opinion that runs counter to your own is obviously "trolling" and thus worthy of no response, or he'll just repeat the same argument over again and tell HBMC to just write his own rules.

There is no way that Gav Thorpe was individually and solely responsible for the CSM codex.

First of all, we know this already. Second, it doesn't really matter because if he was the only guy working on the codex or not. Gav obviously can't take all the blame, but his name is still on the codex, and as long as he's trying to defend said codex I think everyone has a right to form a counter argument. You can't just dismiss everyone's opinion because Gav has someone else to share the blame with.


And who the hell is that woman, god damn.

Sidstyler wrote:Am I the only one who doesn't think there's anything wrong with HBMC's post? Okay, maybe he could have written one or two things differently but you're making it sound like it's nothing but one big personal attack, and that he's frothing at the mouth with rage at Gav when I just don't see it.

I think his argument makes sense and I'd really be interested in seeing what Gav has to say about it, even though we pretty much know what he's going to say already...he'll either ignore it entirely because, as some people here would have you believe anyway, any opinion that runs counter to your own is obviously "trolling" and thus worthy of no response, or he'll just repeat the same argument over again and tell HBMC to just write his own rules.

No,I also belive that the majority of H.B.M.Cs post are accurate concerning both codex:CSM and Gav Thorpse replys to it's "detractors",and I honestly don't see how any one could mistake the points he ( H.B.M.C ) has attempted to convey as a personal attack at Mr. Thorpe.

Frazzled wrote:After reading this defense I had the terrible need to go to the bathroom. I highly recommend reading it if one has not had enough fiber recently.

Truly? Because I felt like I was the toilet and he'd just had a ton of fiber. That's why I spent a weekend building powerklaws for my Orks, and that's why I put Space Wolves on my Xmas list. My chaos marines are going to the realm of cobwebs.

Let's be totally honest here: I'd rather use the original 3rd edition Chaos codex than the current one.

If that sounds sad, it's because it is.

I find nothing wrong with Daemon codex. It's a "FUN" army but I guess "fun" has nothing to do with things.

To the person who said you can have 4 GD HQ's. Perhaps you should do your homework a bit before spewing bile. It's 2 Greater Daemons, NOT 4.

If you think playing Daemons is such a newb thing because OMG 1/2 THE ARMY DEEPSTRIKES THUS MAKING YOUR TACTICAL DECISION FOR YOU!!! than maybe you out to play it a few times instead of jumping to such grandiose conclusions.

Current Chaos dex: Fine 3.5 Codex: Used it as toilet paper to clean up after my dogs. LOL.

I find nothing wrong with Daemon codex. It's a "FUN" army but I guess "fun" has nothing to do with things.

Fun has everything to do with it. That's why a lot of people are still bitching and moaning about the CSM codex, because playing an army with no soul isn't fun.

Sidstyler wrote:

I find nothing wrong with Daemon codex. It's a "FUN" army but I guess "fun" has nothing to do with things.

Fun has everything to do with it. That's why a lot of people are still bitching and moaning about the CSM codex, because playing an army with no soul isn't fun.

I know many CSM players who have a lot of fun ripping through their enemy with Abaddon.

Well I know tons more CSM players who have a lot of fun ripping through their enemy with 3.5. Like 50 guys and they're all 6'5" and jacked like truckasaurus rex. What? You want some? I'm a mad dog. Rur! Rurr! Rur! Rurr! Rur!