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Cover saves are meaningless when my army is packed with weapons that ignore it.

The Morgon seems pretty bad, I agree.
The lack of the re-rollable 6 attacks and WS3 instead of 5 is huge imo. It also can only reburrow if not in cc at the end of the movement phase, so no reburrow after you hit&run away. If you start on the board you can use the blast in turn two and in turn four and maybe in turn six. But that is without attacking anything in cc because you could be stuck in there and miss the chance to reburrow.

Question I have is if you can place the morgon on enemy models in the initial deep-strike move? Is this legal because you are normally not allowed to place models within 1" of enemy models. And the blast only comes into place if there are model where the model is placed.

Greets
Schepp himself

CaptKaruthors wrote:The loss of frag grenades is huge, and I for one like that. Too many units were getting free frag grenades, that it made deploying in covered areas pointless at times. Nids will have to literally send waves of cheap units to lock down units in cover so the following units can charge with no negatives, or use the variety of deployment options to literally attack the opponent from all sides, limiting their options.

When I first ready the codex this is one of the first things I noticed and I wanted to throw up. I understand and agree that frag grenades are too prevalent in the 40k universe. But one army shouldn't pay the price for it. It isn't just a matter of not getting a 'free' upgrade, it is that there is essentially NO options at all. For a traditional assaulty army that to me is a gross omission. If they wanted to limit it, that's fine. For example, make it so genestealers only get the equivalent with a brood lord. Or make a tyrant or other MC grant it to one unit. Heck, I'd even take the old catalyst where you still get your attacks when a model dies but before it's removed. It is a big loss and is very disappointing to me.

The Morgon seems pretty bad, I agree.
The lack of the re-rollable 6 attacks and WS3 instead of 6 is huge imo.

Yeah once that became known the mawloc became a bit of a dog.

It also can only reburrow if not in cc at the end of the movement phase, so no reburrow after you hit&run away.

You can still hit and run in your opponents turn and then burrow on yours. Still, at I4 it is no garauntee you'll break.

If you start on the board you can use the blast in turn two and in turn four and maybe in turn six. But that is without attacking anything in cc because you could be stuck in there and miss the chance to reburrow.

See above.

Question I have is if you can place the morgon on enemy models in the initial deep-strike move? Is this legal because you are normally not allowed to place models within 1" of enemy models. And the blast only comes into place if there are model where the model is placed.

BGB pg 95 wrote:First place one model from the unit anywhere on the table, in the position you would like the unit to arrive, and roll the scatter dice.

There is no mention of legal placement till you start to figure mishaps and that is when the mawloc's rules kick in.

Even still, the Mawloc's strengths are difficult to captialize on. Bout the only thing I am intrigued by is the ability force models out of cover or other advantageous positions. It is so situational and very very dice dependent though, so I dunno if it is worth sacrificing a heavy slot.

The Mawloc doesn't count as having Scything Talons despite the model clearing being armed with them?

Aduro wrote:The Mawloc doesn't count as having Scything Talons despite the model clearing being armed with them?

Nope, listed weapons are just claws and teeth which count as one melee weapon. I overlooked that, too, initially.

@winterman: Thanks for the correction regarding hit and run. That makes the mawloc not much better, though. The german translation for the blast deep strike is again not that clear. I will wait for the english codex before I start a YMDC-thread.

Greets
Schepp himself

CaptKaruthors wrote:Just a quick FYI, I'm the player Mahu tested against. The one correction to my list is that it was Chenkov, not Harker and the Medusa was actually a Manticore.

mahu hte cat is out of the bag now...

seriously this is currently my favorite thread on Dakka. Keep it coming NidBoy!

G

Schepp himself wrote:

Aduro wrote:The Mawloc doesn't count as having Scything Talons despite the model clearing being armed with them?

Nope, listed weapons are just claws and teeth which count as one melee weapon. I overlooked that, too, initially.

That's.... Really kind of lame. Let's release a fig, that when assembled out of the box, is not WYSIWYG legal!!!1!!one!!!

I quite like the general loss of Frag Grenades as it forces both players to made decisions about unit placements. Although I do think they went a bit far with only two units now being able to get them.

Not quite sure how many pinning weapons bugs now have. We may need to look at taking more to force opponents to go to ground so they do not get to benefit from cover.

The only role Fex's seem to have left is to take Bio-plasma and run around ripping open Tanks with their talons.

With all the fuzzy rules in this codex and all the fun with Space Wolves it looks like GW is on the downward spiral again...

FWIW, I think Dakkafexes are actually still decent.

There isn't a lot of pinning in the army...it's probably fair to say that it could have been played up more to balance the loss of frag.

I wish the early rumors that broodlords provided frag grenades had panned out -- woulda made him more attractive.

Not quite sure how many pinning weapons bugs now have. We may need to look at taking more to force opponents to go to ground so they do not get to benefit from cover.

The two stranglers are pinning, the termagant flamer is pinning, and the biovore is pinning by virture of being a barrage weapon.

Yeah the loss of flesh hooks working as offensive grenades is a huge loss.

G

Mahu wrote:


Alpha Warriors w/ Boneswords, Deathspitter riding with the Warriors in a Pod = Excellent unit. One of my favorites in the dex. The Alpha Warrior giving the Warriors a Balistic Skill upgrade basically give you the output of 5 Marine Heavy Bolters the turn you land. THe Alpha Warrior paid of in the squad two as I was ablt to absord a few meltagun hits and keep the squad alive longer. In susequent turns, I had them split up and assault multiple targets. The Alpha Warrior is scary enough to tackle IG units himself.

Sweet, sounds like I can finally field the xeno-morph army Ive always dreamed of.

Has anyone playtested a completely warrior based drop pod assault army?

I am planning to play Nidz like a heavy assault SM army. I think that is why Mahu and I are thinking in the same direction.

G

I've been doing a little testing with the new Nids myself. My findings do differ as far as individual units go, but I'm agreeing with Mahu and Shep here. I'm a little more optimistic, but the Tyranids do need to prepare appropriately against Mech and that does skew some of the choices. I'm also finding that Tyranids aren't so much of a straight-up assaulty army (I think Orks, Space Wolves, and Daemons have more competition for that mantle, though Nids are in the top half) and they don't do gunline. However, they're a strong mobility force that can move as fast as they can each turn with no real penalty about it. Sort of like Eldar, but we trade the prevalence of heavy guns and fast transports for increased toughness (in our big bugs or ablative numbers/wounds) and superior assault capability. Here's what I've found in a unit-by-unit breakdown. Some of it is merely speculation and I'll note that on each entry. I'm not going to talk too much about myetic spores for the same reason I don't talk about drop pods in Marine summaries: they deserve their own article.

Hive Tyrant: You're paying a premium price for a good all-around package. The Hive Tyrant has an excellent profile with support-beast and killer capabilities, which means that you won't get the most out of it unless you make use of the entire profile. For that reason, it's very good in the bigger games where you have a better shot of using its wicked CC capabilities in tandem with its support powers. Also for this reason, you really either have to give it a Venom Cannon or Wings to ensure it's relevant in the early game (or becomes relevant quickly, in the case of the Wings. I might try deep-striking it, haven't done that yet). Like I said, I wouldn't use it in smaller games because it'll get shot dead before it comes into its own. It's good as both a shooty beast and an assault beast, but if you don't use it as both, it's a waste of points.

The Swarmlord (Speculation): Everything that I said about the HT applies to the Swarmlord. It has stronger, more unique support capabilities to make up for it's lack of relevance in the early game. Really big games or bust with this guy. It's not a Land Raider: Land Raiders are strong static values of force while this guy's strength is proportionate to the size of his army. Plus you get more targets for his swords-of-instant-death.

Tyrant Guard: Too expensive for my tastes. You're basically buying extra wounds for your tyrant (at 30 pts. apiece) and it's an extra kill point. A better solution would be to just make it so losing the tyrant isn't such a crippling loss in the first place. An exception would apply for the Swarmlord I think, but I don't really like 'em for a regular Tyrant. If you make it harder to kill than, for example, a Tyrannofex, they're gonna shoot at your Tyrannofex, which will be a bigger loss unless you really need the Synapse.

Alpha Warrior: Twin boneswords are mandatory for this guy. That said, he's what I've been waiting for in the Tyranid Codex: An IC of 4th edition Broodlord-level power that isn't joined by the hip to a retinue. I mostly ignore the alpha-gift power, preferring to either join it to Zoanthropes to suck up instant death wounds or joining it to a gaunt unit to create both an synapse source with a billion ablative wounds and put some bite into an otherwise mediocre tie-up/counterassualt unit. He's extremely good. Not an auto-choice, but pretty close.

Tervigon: The ultimate support beast. The support issue is why I only run 1, probably 2 tops. I'd also never take it as HQ. Point-for-point, it's the most resilient scoring unit in the tyranid army, even before you add Catalyst and gaunt-hatching, and it would be a shame to take that away. It's not a killy beast, but it's a fairly strong addition in an assault if you just need to get a little extra punch. I take one basically every time as a troop. Seldom more.

The Parasite of Mortrex (Speculation): Unimpressive. Costs a Tervigon, can't break armor, and has really lackluster special abilities.

Hive Guard: Point-for-point, the most efficient high-strength shots in the codex (not the strongest, but the most efficient). It's in a fairly resilient package. The ability your opponent has to get around your no cover ability is a bit disappointing, but the best part is being able to hide them to keep them safe without losing any shooting ability from your own actions. You can hide them in a swarm of gaunts or a bunch of cover and fire with impunity. Range can be an issue vs. a gunline, as Shep said, but not a crippling one and certainly not enough to dissuade me from taking them.

Zoanthropes: Very strong. And I love Mahu's suggestion for using them as mobile Tervigon cover. Podding and walking are both options for them. If they run in the first round, they'll get the same amount of shots against vehicles as if you pod them. Small-arms fire is their hidden weakness, another thing that joining an Alpha to the squad alleviates to an extent. Be aware of their weaknesses and their strengths rock the game.

The Doom of Malan'tai: This is a pod-only option, as it's virtually useless taking so many turns to get to the enemy. Unlike its counterparts, it quickly becomes virtually immune to small-arms fire, but big stuff can insta-kill it same as any other T4 beast. You have to be careful with this one and it's more of a "fun" choice considering how easy it is to negate.

Pyrovores (Speculation): I'm not even going to pretend to like these guys.

Venomthropes: This one's interesting, considering how easy it is to hide it behind a big beastie for a piece of terrain. It's going to be priority 1 on the death list and it's a little on the expensive side, but if you've got 60 points, an elite slot to spare, and already have a good amount of Zoans and Hive Guard, I'd throw 1 in.

Lictors: They're no longer independant, but you're only ever going to take 1. The loss of assault-on-arrival capability was a huge blow. Pheremone trail is nice, but unless that's all you want out of it, Deathleaper is simply better.

Deathleaper: He's a good 'un. Anti-psyker combined with infiltrator hunter. You do have to be careful of where to place him (12" away and in cover seems to be the magic formula), but he's good for assassinating stationary vehicles and small squads like scouts and rangers. You'll need the cover to ensure he doesn't get killed in the salvo, but he's pretty strong otherwise. Remember that WS 9 means that WS 4 or less only hits him on 5's in CC.

Ymgarl Genestealers (Speculation): Use the regular ones. Seriously. They have to deploy in cover, but suffer the same cover-init weakness as their regular, cheaper, more efficient counterparts? Pass.

Termagants: Most likely, you're going to take them for a number of reasons. With a Tervigon, they're actually pretty brutal in assault. Otherwise, they're cheap swarms that are good at holding thier ground. A special mention should be made for gaunts with devourers. They're a fragile package and they are expensive, but getting 30 18" Str. 4 shots for 100 points is not to be underestimated. By comparison, 2 of those shots are 6.66 points compared to the 8 you pay for the same from an Eldar guardian.

Tyranid Warriors: I wouldn't kit them for assault. There are far better "pure assualt" beasts out there. That said, they're pretty flexible. Go for efficiency and they shoot and assault (as well as take assaults) passably well for a fair price. Deathspitters, Poison, and Scything Talons have proven my favorite combination, but Devourers aren't too bad if you need to save points. Not broken, but fair powered and fair priced. Their weakness becomes apparent when they go against unfair units. Like the Hive Tyrant, they need to both shoot and get into the scrap to wring the full value out of them.

Genestealers: Cover issues aside, these guys are arguably the best assault troops (mind you, I say TROOPS) in the business. The long-awaited combination of fleet and infiltrate lets them get where they wanna be really quickly. If you can avoid letting them get shot, they'll tear up anything that's not in cover. The Broodlord is strictly optional now, I think, but he's good if you're expecting the stealers to get shot since he can absorb a few wounds without losing bodies and actually save against bolter-equivalent weapons. A bit fragile for reviving the stealer shock archetype, but they definitely have a place. They're efficient specialists. Get around their shooting and cover weaknesses and you're golden. 1 small squad of 8 to 10 usually does it for me and I'm personally a fan of poison.

Ripper Swarms (Speculation): An enigma. Almost all the bugs changed in fundamental ways, but ripper swarms stayed the same except for getting deep strike and worse instinctive behavior rules. It's not like anyone played with them before.

Hormogaunts: I don't think I'd ever use them without poison or with adreanals. 8 points for what's essentially a S4+ gaunt with 2 attacks, talons and I 5 seems about right. They're not as specialized as Genestealers. In fact, I'm tempted to argue that they're better than stealers against most things on a point-to-point ratio and their sheer numbers make them less vulnerable to shooting. If you're gonna take them, take a lot. 120 points gives you 15 toxicgaunts and that's a pretty good number to kill a surprising number of things. Stealers might have an edge breaking armor (both the tank and the save variety) and can get around more, but Hormogaunts are more efficient. Just keep a lot of synapse nearby and mind the template weapons.

Raveners: I love Raveners. I'm a huge fan of the models (the old ones. New ones are kinda meh to me) and I'm glad the rules finally make them good. They're fast, they strike hard, and they only cost as much as similarly equipped warriors. Heck, staple 2 genestealers (with scything talons) together, give them blazing speed and and extra wound, you've got a ravener. I'm not sold on gun options given you have the option to fleet, but if I were to take one, Spinefists give 4 twin-linked shots each with a minimal expense. Always rending claws. Always. Not the world's best unit, but their speed, above-average combat stats and their number of attacks combined with rending make them flexible in assault. I'm looking forward to using mine.

Gargoyles: If only they were scoring. They're good harriers, and basically what you'd expect out of a flying termagant. The real gem with these guys is giving them Adreanal Glands. It's a bargain-basement price and wings gives you the assualt a lot more often. Suddenly, you're charging in with S4, I5 with the blinding poison rule after a volley of fleshborer fire. Not bad. However, I probably won't use 'em too much given that there's scoring stuff that's just as good at what they do (kill troops and not much else).

Harpies (Speculation): They're really not good at anything. If you take a Winged Hive Tyrant, at least it's good in assualt. This is a shooty beast that wasted points on wings. It sort of reminds me of the paradox of Dark Eldar Scourges. And like Dark Eldar, Tyranids can look elsewhere for their heavy weapons.

Winged Warriors: Really not worth it. Unless you really need the synapse, Raveners are cheaper, basically just as fast, and better in assault thanks to their innate boost in WS and Init.

Spore Mines (Speculation): I miss dropping them on targets. You really don't need them against the armies you really have to worry about (mech) and they're too fragile to abosorb any significant firepower.

Carnifex: Mahu describes their role as a Screamer-Killer in a pod that tears up vehicles. I'd agree, since that's the only thing they can really do. If you want a general assault-beast, take a Trygon. If you want a shooty beast, either take a Hive Tyrant (same guns, same cost, better in assualt vs. non-vehicles, synapse, support options) or pony up the extra points for a Tyrannofex.

Old One Eye (Speculation): He's 260 points. For the price of a stronger CC Carnifex, you could buy a Tyrannofex or the freakin' Swarmlord. Very poor, I'm afraid.

Trygon: A faster, tougher, nastier CC fex (except against land raiders). He's very strong, but his size and combat capability makes him target #1. If you want to use him as a fire magnet to avoid losing your Tyrant/Tervigon/Zoanthropes, that's fine. If you don't, either pack a Venomthrope or deep-strike the guy. His gun makes him not completely impotent in that department and a bunch of devourer gaunts (remember, the expensive fragile packages with a billion shots?) coming out of the tunnel behind him makes for a nasty surprise. To deep strike or not to deep strike depends entirely on the game. A note on the Trygon Prime: use him if you're going to be making liberal use of the Subterrainian tunnel or if you REALLY need the synapse, but I'd avoid him most cases.

Mawloc: He's cheaper than the Trygon, but I don't like him. His flagship ability, the Str. 6 AP 2 marker, is essentially BS 2. Paying 170 points for a tougher Basilisk that fires 3 times really isn't my idea of efficiency. He's surprisingly similar to the Tervigon in terms of combat efficiency and profile, so you get to choose between the subterrainian assault ability and the unit-producing, scoring support package of the Tervigon. The choice is obvious to me.

Biovores: Actually good? Maybe. For thier points value, they're remarkably efficient troop killers. While Tyranids don't really need a ton of help in that department (needing more to get the troops out of the cans first), 90 points for a couple of big templates isn't a bad call. Another "fair" choice that might not see heavy tournament rotation, but won't get you laughed out of the gaming hall either as opposed to, say, the pyrovore. Unless you're using the model as a biovore. Which you should.

Tyrannofexes: Not really a poster child for efficiency, but the Rupture Cannon is a necessary evil. I shied way from it's massive point cost initially, but when you starting thinking about the thing as a Daemonically Possessed Twin-Linked Hammerhead with wounds, it grows on you. In smaller games, you can get away with just Zoans, Hive Guard and other options for anti-armor, but I think in bigger games (1850+), the Tyrannofex comes into its own as something that can solve problems from across the board. All it really fears is getting tied up in CC. Take steps to prevent that from happening and it'll server you well. At the cost of a tricked-out Land Raider, it better.

I havent seen this new codex yet but -IF- these Spods (Spore pods, new term.. I said it first ) have rules similiar to drop-pod assault & not just 4+ turn 2 reserves then I can see these being extremely useful.

In terms of Zoies all-round, 2:1 zoies & Hive guard. Good mix of death-strength shooting and tough str8 based shooting, all deployable where needed without needing to worry about range too much.

Dual Tervigon troop spawning models.. You just dont need to field that many troops if need be & you dont -have- to (right?) pump out gaunts in kill-point missions. Love the idea.

Mahu wrote:

Can't they just shoot a lascannon at your pod, ID it, and remove your cover?

Think about where that Lascannon is coming from, wherever it is coming from, that means a unit not shooting at the Carnifex. And you also have to take into consideration that you can also more easily place a Carnifex in cover off of a pod, so using both keeps it alive during a shooting phase. If it hits one tank that costs equal to it's own points cost it pays for itself.

Plus if you have multiple pods and things like Warriors supporting it. And you try and hit a flank that limits the shooting coming at you. All that adds up to your opponent not being able to remove that threat in a turn of shooting. And you are right behind them with your walking and outflanking element.

I dunno. I have 11 separate units that can ID a T4 target in my 2,000 point Space Marine army, and could quasi-trivially upgrade that to 16. Most of these do so at 48" range. Most also move and fire. Killing a single pod is easy, at which point we're looking at doing 4 wounds instead of 6. The math is simple-- killing the pod not only nets extra VP/an extra KP, but halves the Carnifex's defensive capability. Are pod Carnifexes tough? Sure, but they're nothing special. One isn't frightening at all-- in fact, I can probably kill two in a turn if sufficiently pressed to do so. Now, to be fair, that will draw a lot of my fire away from the main Tyranid army, but I definitely am more afraid of a Trygon than a drop Fex. Hiding behind your pod really doesn't seem like a reliable tactic, and I don't even have Mystics. In the end I think 6 wounds is better than 4, and by enough to really make a difference.

Spods FTW! Razerous coined it. I should sig that.

: )

G

If one were to use dual Tervigons, and wanted a swarm list. How many gaunts would be the optimal size for the troop choice gaunts?

Razerous wrote:I havent seen this new codex yet but -IF- these Spods (Spore pods, new term.. I said it first ) have rules similiar to drop-pod assault & not just 4+ turn 2 reserves then I can see these being extremely useful.

In terms of Zoies all-round, 2:1 zoies & Hive guard. Good mix of death-strength shooting and tough str8 based shooting, all deployable where needed without needing to worry about range too much.

Dual Tervigon troop spawning models.. You just dont need to field that many troops if need be & you dont -have- to (right?) pump out gaunts in kill-point missions. Love the idea.

Yup, the Spods (I'm hopping on the bandwagon ) work like drop pod assault. One of the local players is experimenting with a core of 40 stealers and 2 carnifexes in pods and seeing how he can get it to work out for him. I was less than impressed by the mix so far, but my standard marine lists have at least 10 ST8+ weapons with a 48" range so and in the the test game we played, he insisted that I field my 10 Sternguard who come equipped with 2 plasma cannons so that made podding near me suicidical since it quickly became alot of "Razorbacks kill spods, Marines rapid fire stealers to death." Since then, however, he has enjoyed a decent amount of success by using two hive commanders, two outflanking squads (with spods), two spodding squads and two spodding carnifexes. He'll drop the empty spods and one squad on turn one, using the empty spods to provide beaucoup cover, and then use the bonuses to reserve rolls to spam everything else on turn two. Gets up close and personal really fast.

What exatcly do you accomplish in the tyranid shooting phase?

Your not going to put a serious dent against mech list so I think it is pointless. Assault missle launchers(hive guard) and lascannons with a -1(heavy venom cannons) which only come from elite choices or expensive mcs means that you will not be able to do enough damage. The only shooting weapon you should even consider is the zoanthrope as its just to good to pass up.

You should invest in cc and run across the board and attack mech list head on. The new nids excel in the assault phase, the new mcs have special rules that allows them to deep strike without worrying about mishaps.

Maybe thats a sign of how to play them, a large swarm running straight at you, then mcs emerge anywhere they want they may scatter off but who cares theres no mishaps.

Turn 3-4 your deployment creatures are ready to charge, the mcs that came in on the 2nd or 3rd turn can move and use fleet to attack, a whole lot of charges declared at the same time priceless!

I think the Tyrannofex is a powerful option that many people here are missing.

2 bs 3 str 10 shots no thank you, however as an anti-infantry weapon considering that he has a hellhound like weapon is nice.

As anti-infantry it's strong sure, but not 250 pts strong, not in an army that excels at killing infantry without really having to try hard at it. Bio Cannon or Bust baby.

@Pyrocon: I don't believe Ymarglgwrde Stealers HAVE to do the hidden deployment. As I recall from my look thru the Codex today, they MAY do it.

CKO wrote:What exatcly do you accomplish in the tyranid shooting phase?

Your not going to put a serious dent against mech list so I think it is pointless. Assault missle launchers(hive guard) and lascannons with a -1(heavy venom cannons) which only come from elite choices or expensive mcs means that you will not be able to do enough damage. The only shooting weapon you should even consider is the zoanthrope as its just to good to pass up.

You should invest in cc and run across the board and attack mech list head on. The new nids excel in the assault phase, the new mcs have special rules that allows them to deep strike without worrying about mishaps.

Maybe thats a sign of how to play them, a large swarm running straight at you, then mcs emerge anywhere they want they may scatter off but who cares theres no mishaps.

Turn 3-4 your deployment creatures are ready to charge, the mcs that came in on the 2nd or 3rd turn can move and use fleet to attack, a whole lot of charges declared at the same time priceless!

Its important to note too that MCs can still mishap. They can mishap from going off the board or, in certain cases, landing on terrain or other models. The Mawloc, for example, specifically does not mishap from landing on models but can still drift into terrain or off the board.

PanzerLeader wrote:

Razerous wrote:I havent seen this new codex yet but -IF- these Spods (Spore pods, new term.. I said it first ) have rules similiar to drop-pod assault & not just 4+ turn 2 reserves then I can see these being extremely useful.

In terms of Zoies all-round, 2:1 zoies & Hive guard. Good mix of death-strength shooting and tough str8 based shooting, all deployable where needed without needing to worry about range too much.

Dual Tervigon troop spawning models.. You just dont need to field that many troops if need be & you dont -have- to (right?) pump out gaunts in kill-point missions. Love the idea.

Yup, the Spods (I'm hopping on the bandwagon ) work like drop pod assault.

Reading through my english hard-copy codex I find no indication that spore pods use anything similar to the Drop Assault rule.
They do have something similar to Inertial Guidance System (helping with scatter), but they use the regular "coming-in-from-reserves" rule.

Thanks to Pryokon and Shep for those reviews.

Even if it is overcosted I am going to try and make the Tyrant work as my HQ. Mainly because I have two of them and want to use the model. I want to try and keep its cost to around 250 points so I am not sure if it is worth taking the Venom Cannon or just running on the first turn to get into Psi Power & Devourer range.

I think Gargoyles and Hormogaunts are about as good as each other in combat. HG score, but Gargoyles get better movement (since they effectivly always run 6") and can shoot. Like Zoanthropes they also make it easier to give Monsters cover saves.

Personally I think Winged Warriors are better than Raveners as it gives you Synapse and better movement.

The Tranny has a combination of shooting attacks.

G

I could see using the T-fex S10 gun to fire at transports the turn before you're in assault range. If you can at least keep them from moving you'll get free hits from your assault troops on the next turn. It won't work against every army, Eldar for example. Even with the anti infantry weapon(s) 250 points is a hefty price tag.

40kenthusiast wrote:I have trouble picturing the Hive Guards as Meh. They've got 2 shots at s8, and they are very heavy platforms for that kind of firepower, presuming they are getting cover saves.

Seems like a unit of 3 firing at a rhino is 6 shots, 4 hits, 1-2 pens, 1 glance, 1 nothing? So figure every 2 rounds you ought to get a rhino down? Sounds good to me!

Thats all very well but what happens if a land raider turns up?You wouldn't be able to penetrate that unfortunately