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Rashim wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:

mcg3e wrote:This might be a little out there, but is it possible Orks could possibly be mutated Marines? Maybe the legions were lost in the warp and twisted into Orks. Both share similar physical attributes and a similar stubborness/bravery. It appears somewhat rational to me, what do yall think?

I think that the Ork Codex, Kroot background, and Old Ones fluff about the Krork make that an extremely under-educated theory.

In other words, the fact that Orks as a species and their ancestors are older than mankind(and thus the Imperium) means that's not only is it silly, it's also impossible.

They are a fungus my good friends =D! Created by "Da Brain Boyz" to stop the necrons =D!

Oh, I really to brush up on my fluff, I've been out of the hobby for too long.

I agree with an accident, or something involving the warp.
The Emperor's Children legion was almost lost due to a defect in the geneseed, so this could a reason towards the other 2 legions not being around.
or being lost in the warp. Remember all the primarchs have 2 "fathers" the Emperor and the warp because the emperor took a portion of the power of the warp and infused it into them. The greater powers in the warp dont like it and so casting the 2nd and 11th primarch to the warp as punishment and the two primarchs were nvr seen again.

SUPPOSEDLY never seen again......

I've seen them... Found them behind the sofa with Jesus.

mcg3e wrote:This might be a little out there, but is it possible Orks could possibly be mutated Marines?

No.

The orks are the debased and OOC Krork, made by the Old Ones.

Marines fought orks prior to and during the HH. One nearly killed the Emperor.

and the two primarchs were nvr seen again.

Except, as has been mentioned in this very thread, they WERE seen again.

Please take the time to read a thread if you wish to comment.

It might be Legion of the Damned!
Just kiddin
I thing that is partially possible, but I don´t relly think, is
that Emp/One of the lost primarchs saw into the future, that the tyranids would come, and was send out to fend ´em of. They did however misjudge the might of the ´nids and died trying to stop them.
To not cause massive panic nobody would be allowed to speek about them anymore.

Ok, that´s a wery weak story, but you could make fanfic of it.

^ Interesting.. but a bit "meh" if y'know what I mean.

Yeah, but I was only toying with the idea

Not a bad idea, I almost completely forgot about the tyranids.

I just found this in Codex Imperialis
"The names and histories of chapters 2 and 11 were deleted from Imperial records following the Horus Heresy"

One of em got caught diddling an underage Scout and was 'reassigned' by the Emperor, the other one stepped out to go buy a pack of smokes, hasnt been heard from since.

chub wrote:I just found this in Codex Imperialis
"The names and histories of chapters 2 and 11 were deleted from Imperial records following the Horus Heresy"

so this means that any current loyalist chapter or chaos warband without a confirmed primogenitor could be the remnants of the 2nd or 11th legion?

the plot thickens...

@SilverMK2

I've seen them... Found them behind the sofa with Jesus.

If that's the case, I think you should give the Christians a call... I hear they've been waiting for him for a while now.

@chub

I just found this in Codex Imperialis
"The names and histories of chapters 2 and 11 were deleted from Imperial records following the Horus Heresy"

I haven't seen that written anywhere before, but if true, it sure throws one massively ork-sized spanner in the works! (or throws a grot in the cogs... However you prefer )

I agree with the people that have said they are blanks... Not in a fluff sense, but a story telling one. But that just adds to the fun of all this speculation!

I'm personally a fan of a Malal... A Chaos god of self-destruction?! Hell YES!! Sacred number 11 (or is it 5... I might be confusing my fluff... I hope it's 11!)... 11th primarch dead/dieing when they were scattered by/into the warp... No mention/records of missing legions or missing Chaos god... It's fun to stich together scraps of information!

My story goes along the lines...

All the primarchs have/had their flaws... The 11th primarch was the self destructive type.

Jimsolo (pg. 1 of this thread)
Also, when he [Horus] witnesses the primarchs' birthing chambers being pulled into the warp, I do believe that he hears one of them dying.

Mangus, in The Thousand Sons HH novel, said all the primarchs were conscious of their birth/creation... So (in my story here) the 11th was all ready being sucked dry by Malal, while he was growing in his test tube (or Malice, which ever you prefer... A god by any other name, right?). After they were sucked into the warp, and spat out in random directions (or not so random... Looking at you Tzeentch!) Malal snatched up his prize!

The legion created from his geneseed suffered from the same self-destructive tendencies. Rampart infighting, brutal live fire/chainsword training, suicidal and even self-defeating battle tactics were their trade marks, putting them out of favour with basically everyone! Once the 11th primarch matured/was released from/thought it was the right time to come out of his growing chamber, with the help of Malal, called out to his legion... They dove head first into The Eye of Terror, being self-destructive and all, and were guided to the deamon world where their primarch resided.

This is when the true infighting began! Apon landing, what little self control they had, dissolved away... The resulting war was unlike any the Imperium of Man had ever witnessed. There was no army, no good, no bad, no lines to draw in the sand. The Sons of Malice, as they are now known, consumed each other, body and soul... Every man fought as an individual against all others one moment, turned to help a fellow brother the next, only to turn on those he was helping a moment later. It was anarchy. It was chaos. It was self consuming. It was... Malal!

My time line might be a little off... But I've convinced myself to start a Sons of Malice kill team army... I'm thinking 11 models in it sounds about right

Great thread, keep it up!

Mabie they just got lost in general? And no one knows where to find them...

interjecting some logic:

so, all the primarchs were lost in the warp for some time.

two of them never got out? Ergo, lost forever?

No, they all were found.

They all met their Legions and the Emperor.

The missing 2 even had statues in the palace prior to the Heresy.

The stuf in the Codex Imperialis is oyt of date, much of the fluff from then has been revised.

Their statues were said to be missing/ rubble weren't they? I'm sure in the HH books as Dorn is walking through the Imperial Palace he notices the gaps.

There's been so many subtle comments by all the 'known' primarchs about not angering daddy emperor, seeing His wrath unleashed before etc. (Can't remember which one said that) The Primarchs know who were the missing two, they just don't talk that much about them.

I agree, in a fashion, with Overlord. When the incubation chambers were scattered to the warp, who says that two didn't get out? After being corrupted so much by the Chaos Gods, the Emperor finds them, they attack or something similar, Daddy lays the smack down?

Be interesting to see a HH book on the matter though.

The statues had been removed, the Imperial Fist guy who later founds the BT's wanted to tear down the ones of the renegades as well, they are covered up at the time.

There's been so many subtle comments by all the 'known' primarchs about not angering daddy emperor, seeing His wrath unleashed before etc. (Can't remember which one said that) The Primarchs know who were the missing two, they just don't talk that much about them.

Indeed.
..of course I guess people could just ask Bjorn what happened to them..

Bjorn? Enlighten me please...

They could've even been a bargain to the warp when they were being created? Surely the Emperor couldn't take all 4 CG at the same time, if that is they managed to stick together for long enough to do that?

Bjorn the fell handed.

He was there at the HH, he knew Russ, he was in his wolfguard.

If there's anyone left in the 41M who might knbow what happened to them...it's him.

Cheers for that, had a little brain fart. There's also most likely some of the CSM's who would know, Night Lords or Thousand Sons especially.

Problem with Bjorn though, is most dreds tend to seem a bit senile eventually, too much time in a tin box or something.

I suspect this thread is similar to how the careers of the two lost primarchs went. Start off promising, thought cliche (theres 18 other primarchs/million of these threads) Then foolish and ignorant ideas take hold(bolter boomerang, I'm telling you its genius!/LotD are a lost legion Sigmar!!!). They are rebuffed by the emperor (knowledgeable posters), but they cannot stop, they are so sure these ideas they have are good! Naturally one pirate grew up on a pirate world and the other on a ninja world. They hate each other intensely. Finally its clear that this problem is one without a solution. The emperor banishes them to beyond the southern fringe, they are no longer part of his empire. "Son..." he says "I am disappoint". And lo the 2nd and Eleventh primrachs were erased from history.

reds8n wrote:The statues had been removed, the Imperial Fist guy who later founds the BT's wanted to tear down the ones of the renegades as well, they are covered up at the time.

There's been so many subtle comments by all the 'known' primarchs about not angering daddy emperor, seeing His wrath unleashed before etc. (Can't remember which one said that) The Primarchs know who were the missing two, they just don't talk that much about them.

Indeed.
..of course I guess people could just ask Bjorn what happened to them..

I like that idea.


and bjorn is said to very lucid is he not?

I suspect that i know who one of the missing primarchs is.


NA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NA-

Doomrider!

NA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NA-


He likes cocane, and I am pretty sure the Imperium has a say no to drugs policy.

What about Ahriman? Couldn't he know something, and isn't there a book on him or something?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
What about Angor is it? He's a "daemonicefied primach of the world eaters legion, If he's a primach he should know, and since he's still alive we can ask him!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh wait..

Custodes/Bjorn are the ones to ask. Wouldn't get you anywhere unless you were really special.

My mother tells me I'm special...

I think the biggest clue as to the nature of 2 and 11 is probably the fact that they were deleted at all. They must have done something pretty shocking to warrant that...

Disclaimer: I do not believe there is a real answer to the lost legions, but if there were this is how I might try to reason it out... What follows is not logic.

For example: Horus sold his soul to chaos, invaded Earth, killed the God Emperor - Saviour of Humanity, and tried to destroy the galaxy... Yet he manages to not get himself deleted from imperial records. Similarly the other traitor legions were not deleted from the records.

If we were to (perhaps foolishly) assume that the imperium is consistent in who it does and does not delete records of... it might be safe to say that joining Horus and turning to chaos does not get you deleted.

I think it is also unlikely that 2 and 11 simply became a secret branch within the impirium and just had their records deleted to hide their origins. That also seems inconsistent. Why would the imperium go to such pains to hide their existence and origin and not do the same for other sensitive departments like the inquisition, grey knights, custodes, assassins etc...

My guess is that the Legion records were deleted because they contained something about that era, which contradicts current imperial dogma. The timing of the records being deleted would also suggest that said dogma was 'inserted' into imperial history or became politically important after some 'change in ideas' following the Horus heresy.

This might also then suggest that the stuff we are told about that era is partly untrue. If 2 and 11 did play a part in the HH... Then I find it a bit too convenient that the legion records could be deleted cleanly, without leaving holes in the rest of the story.

There is some quite detailed fluff on the Istavan drop site massacres, and the battle for Earth which all adds up nicely without the lost legions being present. Which would mean either they were off somewhere else and didn't get involved (then presumably had their records deleted for not being interesting enough). Or the stories were edited to fill the gaps. I would argue that the lost legions did play a role during the Horus Heresy, otherwise there would be little reason to delete their records immediately after.

In conclusion I would reason that the records of the lost legions reveled something less than perfect about the Emperor. Perhaps that he did something evil, or foolish which must never be widely known.

I have always had the inkling that whatever happened to legions 2 and 11 it was probably related to their gene seed. Perhaps it became corrupt, overly mutated, or perhaps it was (from day 1) an experiment into 'something' that the imperium then decided it couldn't live with (especially after the Horus Heresy), or just a failed experiment.

In any case the legions were either left to their doom or unceremoniously exterminated... Then the records were deleted to hide the evidence of the Emperors mistake.

I like to believe 'in this case' that the legions were loyal, but became a victim of the imperium's paranoia and intolerance in spite of that.

I think it makes sense that both legions would have been completely and thoroughly destroyed, just as their records seem to have been completely and thoroughly destroyed. But the lack of certainty leaves room for imagination... which I guess is the whole idea.

This entire 'argument' as it were points me towards my local 'CDG' or 'comic-book discussion group.' very similar, I'm afraid.

THANKS FOR THE ENTERTAINMENT.

However, at least you don't goo everytime someone mentions the word kryptonite.

Or, we could just blame Guilliman as we do for everything. Maybe one of the two legions was active in the heresy, maybe even did some usefull stuff, but then refused to break down into chapters. Didn't even consider it a good idea and told Guilliman to his face.

Little boy blue goes off on one and has all the records deleted on that particular legion so he can claim everyone liked his special book and make himself feel special. As a result all the history of the legion disappears and to this day no-one know what happened.

Stupid Ultramarines