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SaintHazard wrote:Personally, I like the whole "soundless undying robots" thing.

The fact that they bear down on you, with single-minded purpose, without making so much as a sound is actually extremely creepy and cool.

That's why I said they're still only an adversary army. They serve the same purpose as zombies or a natural disaster: something to bear down on the protagonists, not being protagonists in their own right. You can keep that feel, but if you do the hero units to pick up the slack. The Lord would need dozens of options, including stat changes, so that your Lord would feel like an individual.

Ailaros wrote:
My biggest beef with tau is that they are really poorly defined as a race to me. It's like, their fluff is a confusing mishmash of communism and Vedic traditions, but without the rich history and color of the latter or the passion of the former.

Their physiology seems mixed up too. They're predators with a hunting tradition that influences their military tactics, but they've got hooves like prey animals and they have relatively crappy ungulate-like vision? So they've evolved into carniverous blue deer? Gives a new meaning to The Deer Hunter.

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:I spot a mistake!

Canis is actually not, as people commonly believe, Latin for "wolf." It actually means "Dog." His name is Dog Wolfborn, people!...

Dogs are canis lupus familiaris. Wolves are canis lupus lupus or some other variant of canis lupus. So canis just means canine and includes all the canines: dogs, coyotes, wolves, etc. Essentially canis wolfborn = wolf.

Ailaros wrote:Yeah, tau is in its place.

My biggest beef with tau is that they are really poorly defined as a race to me. It's like, their fluff is a confusing mishmash of communism and Vedic traditions, but without the rich history and color of the latter or the passion of the former.

Communism - a : a theory advocating elimination of private property
b : a system in which goods are owned in common and are available to all as needed

I believe the word you are looking for is

Dictatorship - a : a form of government in which absolute power is concentrated in a dictator or a small clique
b : a government organization or group in which absolute power is so concentrated
c : a despotic state

But at the same time they

assimilate - a : to make similar
b : to alter by assimilation
c : to absorb into the culture or mores of a population or group

other races in order to push forward the ideals of their greater good and to form the "perfect Empire".

A lot like Hitler and his Nazi government party tries to do in World War 2, and would have been successful if they had not decided to pick on Russia and The United States of America.

I feel that the Tau are in the same situation and the Imperium of Man will be their version of Russia.

More like carnivorous blue cowbirds.

AlexHolker wrote:

SaintHazard wrote:Personally, I like the whole "soundless undying robots" thing.

The fact that they bear down on you, with single-minded purpose, without making so much as a sound is actually extremely creepy and cool.

That's why I said they're still only an adversary army. They serve the same purpose as zombies or a natural disaster: something to bear down on the protagonists, not being protagonists in their own right. You can keep that feel, but if you do the hero units to pick up the slack. The Lord would need dozens of options, including stat changes, so that your Lord would feel like an individual.

Who said every player wants to play a "protagonist" type army? What if a player wants to play the role of the DM, so to speak, and send endless hordes of undying monstrosities at the protagonist, which would be those Spess Mehreens over yonder hill?

Arschbombe wrote:they have relatively crappy ungulate-like vision

They don't. They have incredibly sharp vision (sharper than that of a human), but their eyes focus more slowly at distance.

Cambak wrote:
But at the same time they

assimilate - a : to make similar
b : to alter by assimilation
c : to absorb into the culture or mores of a population or group
.

We are the Borg. Lower your shields and surrender your ships. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.

Alright I got it, someone give me ediin's peanut!

I've read the codex several times over but I don't recall the "Defeated a Hive Fleet without a ship lost" part. Is that supposed to be part of the new Tyranid dex, or am I just blanking out while reading?

That was in the Nid dex. Something about the Nids attacking a forested world the Tau controlled and used Kroot (and adapting thier tech) to fight the nids off in like a month.

No, it's the fluff regarding Commander Shadowsun.

Melissia wrote:No, it's the fluff regarding Commander Shadowsun.

Yeah I don't like her.
But I love Farsight!

Asherian Command wrote:

Melissia wrote:No, it's the fluff regarding Commander Shadowsun.

Yeah I don't like her.
But I love Farsight!

Ah, I knew I blanked out!

I also dislike the character and tend to skip over her entry for a distaste of using named characters, especially those with a lack of simple bonuses.

Cambak wrote:

Ailaros wrote:Yeah, tau is in its place.

My biggest beef with tau is that they are really poorly defined as a race to me. It's like, their fluff is a confusing mishmash of communism and Vedic traditions, but without the rich history and color of the latter or the passion of the former.

Communism - a : a theory advocating elimination of private property
b : a system in which goods are owned in common and are available to all as needed

I believe the word you are looking for is

Dictatorship - a : a form of government in which absolute power is concentrated in a dictator or a small clique
b : a government organization or group in which absolute power is so concentrated
c : a despotic state

But at the same time they

assimilate - a : to make similar
b : to alter by assimilation
c : to absorb into the culture or mores of a population or group

other races in order to push forward the ideals of their greater good and to form the "perfect Empire".

A lot like Hitler and his Nazi government party tries to do in World War 2, and would have been successful if they had not decided to pick on Russia and The United States of America.

I feel that the Tau are in the same situation and the Imperium of Man will be their version of Russia.

Tau society and government is more akin to a realized version of Confucian and Platonic-Republican ideology than anything

SaintHazard wrote:Who said every player wants to play a "protagonist" type army? What if a player wants to play the role of the DM, so to speak, and send endless hordes of undying monstrosities at the protagonist, which would be those Spess Mehreens over yonder hill?

Then take a bog standard Lord and make no attempt to single him out as anything interesting. Just because you could make your Lord a necromancer-style individual in a tide of drones doesn't mean you'd have to.

Retribution wrote:

Cambak wrote:

Ailaros wrote:Yeah, tau is in its place.

My biggest beef with tau is that they are really poorly defined as a race to me. It's like, their fluff is a confusing mishmash of communism and Vedic traditions, but without the rich history and color of the latter or the passion of the former.

Communism - a : a theory advocating elimination of private property
b : a system in which goods are owned in common and are available to all as needed

I believe the word you are looking for is

Dictatorship - a : a form of government in which absolute power is concentrated in a dictator or a small clique
b : a government organization or group in which absolute power is so concentrated
c : a despotic state

But at the same time they

assimilate - a : to make similar
b : to alter by assimilation
c : to absorb into the culture or mores of a population or group

other races in order to push forward the ideals of their greater good and to form the "perfect Empire".

A lot like Hitler and his Nazi government party tries to do in World War 2, and would have been successful if they had not decided to pick on Russia and The United States of America.

I feel that the Tau are in the same situation and the Imperium of Man will be their version of Russia.

Tau society and government is more akin to a realized version of Confucian and Platonic-Republican ideology than anything

Tau are Utilitalistc
they just want everybody to be friends. EVERYBODY.

I actually like the Tau. I didn't initially, but they grew on me, mainly after playing against my friend for years who used them. They could use more options, but they're kind of the opposite of the spectrum of Tyranids in terms of technology.

What's funny is, fluff terms, they're not that dissimilar to Tyranids on what they do. They approach new civilizations, ask them to join them, or they wipe them out. Tyranids just force everyone to 'join' them, as biomass.

Tyranids are on an eternal 'quest' to adapt, but they do it biologically. Tau do the same thing, but technologically. And while Tyranids focus on close quarters fighting, Tau focus on long range fighting.

I kind of wish my friend still played. It would be awesome to use my new Tyranids against his old Tau.

But Orks want to be their friends, and the Tau won't play with them!

Because orks don't play nice!

I like both tyranids and tau, and they're both on the bottom. This doesn't bode well for eldar.

Mr Nobody wrote:Because orks don't play nice!

I like both tyranids and tau, and they're both on the bottom. This doesn't bode well for eldar.

Well eldar are a great race! I really hope they are higher than Inqusition and Witch Hunters. As Eldar are one of my favorite races!
And they are one of the most well written even though they need a new codex.

Asherian Command wrote:even though they need a new codex.

Not as much as Tau, 'Crons, =I=, CSM, BT, (Deamons?) or even DA as loath I am to admit it. Eldar are still quite competitive and have a wide array of options.

Givin GWs recent release shedule (IG, SW, 'Nids, BA, DE) of updating old codexes almost perfectly in oldest to newest order, (YAY!) the Craftworlders are still a while off yet.

Eldar made second place last year in 'ard boyz. I don't think they need a new codex that bad. They DO need a new codex I think, but then, I think every army that's not in fifth edition does.

sniperjolly wrote:

Asherian Command wrote:even though they need a new codex.

Not as much as Tau, 'Crons, =I=, CSM, BT, (Deamons?) or even DA as loath I am to admit it. Eldar are still quite competitive and have a wide array of options.

Givin GWs recent release shedule (IG, SW, 'Nids, BA, DE) of updating old codexes almost perfectly in oldest to newest order, (YAY!) the Craftworlders are still a while off yet.

Man, I have to say, GW dug themselves a nice hole with these codexes. So many splinter armies like different chapters and different inquisition forces really eats up development time.

err, what? There's only two "Inquisition" codices (Codex: Witch Hunters, Codex: Daemonhunters), that's the same as the amount of Eldar codices.

But there's SEVEN Space Marine codices (Codex: Space Marines, Codex: Chaos Space Marines, Codex: Space Wolves, Codex: Blood Angels, Codex: Dark Angels), Codex: Black Templar, Codex: Daemonhunters). Now THAT eats up development time Space Marines make up just shy of half of all codices. Which is why some of them were bound to be ranked low regardless.

I'm not arguing that at all. In fact, I believe they could roll the Space marine chapters into 1 book, and have a couple of pages of alternate lists for divergent chapters. The same could be done to the inquisition. Just have smaller, differing wargear lists for inquisitors of each type, a general inquisition army list, and specialized units like Grey Knights depending on your inquisitors order.

I was just saying, having so many splinter armies with their own book really does eat up development time they could give to other, full armies.

-Loki- wrote:The same could be done to the inquisition

Don't even get me started. Just know that I will never, EVER agree with that, unless you specifically disclude Sisters from "Inquisition".

I do. Sisters of Battle and Grey Knights actually do deserve their own codex, since while being power armoured, they are significatnly different to Space Marines. It wouldn't be hard to put them in as specialized units into a combined Inquisitor codex though.

as it is, there's so many codexes, even discounting the minor codexes they don't want to continue like Lost and the Damned, that they don't even get out of a new edition with all of the released armies getting an updated codex. 4 of the bottom 3 in this thread are good examples.

Melissia wrote:

-Loki- wrote:The same could be done to the inquisition

Don't even get me started. Just know that I will never, EVER agree with that, unless you specifically disclude Sisters from "Inquisition".

I hope you are as hot as your icon Melissia sweet princess!

o.O

what

sniperjolly wrote:o.O

ʇɐɥʍ

Fixed

Interesting list, so far I agree with the placements. Wouldn't actually be too surprised if Witch Hunters didn't end up as number one though, I think I remember something about you hating how the Sisters were just thrown into there or something.

Although I agree that the fluff needs a bit of a rework, you guys do realize that the only thing that makes Tau any more "good" than any other faction in 40K is that they say "Join us or" before "die!"