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The SM codex is full of useful and fun named characters because it ended up getting rid of the much more flavourful and fun chapter traits system from fourth edition. Forcing players to take certain special characters to represent their chapters was a step back from what the previous codex offered. I'd say that unnamed characters like the Grand Master are a step in the right direction.

Hmm, you have a good point there, I agree with you on this.

I think paladin troops might be able to compete with purifier troops. The main question is, who is more useless: Crowe who can't join units and sucks a fair amount in close combat, or "I must break you" Draigo who costs more than a land raider and is only useful in close combat.

You know, there might actually be some valid builds using 1 sized paladin squads. Kind of like lone wolfs on crack that the opponent just cant ignore due to walking holocaust models.
But then again its like most GK builds, pure suicide since you´ll auto loose in kill point games.

As someone who prefers to use generic HQs rather than special characters, I like the fact that a Brother-Captain or a Grand Master is a perfectly viable choice.

Pyriel- wrote:
Here is a challenge:
Anyone that can come up with a reason to e v e are take psilencers wins a beer.

If you take a gatling psilencer it is fairly decent anti horde?

Against high model count, low armour armies (I'm thinking footslogging IG or footslogging Orks), the psilencer will shine, as it's basically getting more bolters on the ground.

Pyriel - if you wipe the opponent you still win. Its why 19KP orks can still kill in annihilation missions.

Single paladins are going to be TERRIFYING in Killteam games.

"I can't hear you over the sound of ALL THESE PIE PLATES."

I thought 2+ saves were excluded from kill team?

Just going through the codecies and stating what I see along with restating what I have been told.

Things that have changed since the beta.

-Ghost Knights lost Stealth, 5 can only be taken, increased in points, can only take halberd, hammers, falchions, or a banner.
-Coteaz now specifically states he makes henchmen into troops.
-Coteaz lost his aura of faith and mind blades...gain a bolt pistol and dark excommunication.
-Karamovoz's save is now given by the throne instead of artificer armor.
-Inquisitors can no longer take artificer armor but can take power armor.
-Units can only take one Warding Stave.
-Banisher went up in points?
-Only 3 Warriors in a squad can "special weapons"
-Strike Squads can still deepstrike though they can no longer take teleport packs.
-Fast Attack Teleport PAGKs are Interceptor Squads.
-Dreadknight lost one strength and toughness, holocaust...gained dark excommunication
-Psybolt ammo is now way cheaper on any LR.

I might have missed some things...but this is what I mostly see.

nosferatu1001 wrote:I thought 2+ saves were excluded from kill team?

Forgot all about that.

Hell, purifier squads will be scary for them too. Incinerators everywhere.

I havn't even looked at the GK codex yet...but so far it all looks pretty awesome to me. I find it funny how as soon as a new codex comes out, all the nay-sayers pop out of the wood work to rant and rave about how unbalanced, OP, or just state how a force plain sucks for the following 100 reasons, then dissapear until the next codex update.

Needless to say, ALL forces have their weaknesses, GK will be no different. I think that they will still be a great force to collect. Even if they dont compete very well...who cares. I mean really, Ill go down in a blaze of glory with the knowledge that my 30 models gave 100 models a run for their money. Hopefully anyway

Honestly, the greatest part of this codex is what we GK players have been needing for a long time...

OPTIONS

For the longest time...Our fast attack, heavy and troops choices for PAGK were identical with only weapon points costs varying a little bit.

We have had so little to choose from to make armies...and now there are a million ways to make an army.

I want my oldschool type fearless superpowerful army?...purifiers

Terminators?...they're already troops...in keeping with GK fluff.

Inquisition...go NUTS.

MCs...we get MCs!!!

It's a candy store for us.

I appreciate that you tried to give a serious analysis of the GK codex. I've always liked them, as they are a small but very elite force of shiny SMs that face down impossible odds and win. I have a couple of questions:

1: Why do you say that Daemon armies are rare? When I last went to the Bookery literally every match going on at the time had one of the players fielding those hellspawn.
2: Is it even possible to field a GK force that is 500 points or less?

It's POSSIBLE, but it won't be very good.

Psh...with Stormbolters or Psycannons it will be just fine.

In the old days I took 8 GKs against 60 orks and wiped the table.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
might have been 50 orks...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Honest analysis of the codex...if you know your enemy...you will annilihate them...the amount of options means you can counter any known army.

If you try to build the all comers list...you're going to have to be a GK veteran and intelligence is vital to winning.

haha yeah i remember the old GK codex...stuck with what the army list said, and never stray from the dex. but now it sounds like the customization is gonna have some good combos to try out.

Everyone seems to be talking alot about how GK has bad range and wont have enough scoring units, or the best one i've heard so far..."GK suck, melta I win". Which is true, but the only thing that bothers me about that theory is; How many meltas can you actually take? I know Eldar have fire dragons and such, and many armies have weapons to deal with heavy armor. But I think the problem one may face with GK is choosing which target is the biggest threat, when the whole army is a big threat. If you open your meltas on Termies, you still have Dreadknights and land raiders, etc to deal with, and vice versa. I know you got 6 turns to waste them all, and when looked at in this sense, I agree GK will have trouble, but great thing about them is if you can get some steady fire laid down and get some guys into CC, you may be able to cause enough of a mess until your heavy hitters like DK or Termies show up.

The only major weakness I can see with GK is the obvious really...lack of numbers. 6 turns to melta and hit you with AP weapons will definately do some damage, and in all likelyhood, wipe you off the board. But I really do beleive with GK the key to winning will be in disrupting the battle line. Some could say this is the strategy with most armies, but I think it'll be more prevalent with GK. If you can get some guys into CC and create a mess, or teleport in, or whatever, you may be able to cause enough damage. CC won't be anything great from what i've heard bout GK, but with their Inv save and toughness they may be able to stick around for a few turns to cause some trouble.

I'd think as a GK player I'd watch for enemy CC units held back to wait for you to show up. If you can engage the heavy AP or melta units in CC you should be ok, but if another CC unit shows up, they can give you a run for your money just based on the shear numbers, or power weapons. I guess a good way to combat this would be...not sure? I suppose Dreadknights. but they arn't invincible or anything. Maybe DK backed with a land raider or something. Who knows. All i know is to support, cause a lone unit of GK termies in the middle of an ork horde won't last long, I don't care how great the saves are.

I could be completely wrong and foolish, and yadda yadda for thinking this, but I think GK will still preform well. Maybe not on a tourney level right away, but with some tweaking and getting the most for your points, im sure soon people will find a few lists that run well and they'll get their due credit.

Whre GKs lack melta guns...they have 10point S10 hammers...givn hammerhand.

ductvader wrote:
-Strike Squads can still deepstrike though they can no longer take teleport packs.
-Fast Attack Teleport PAGKs are Interceptor Squads.

Well... AFAICS it's exactly the same thing, they just gave the teleport pack SS a new name. The options are exactly the same for interceptor squads and for strike squads... Ofc you can't take dedicated transports with the interceptors and they're jump infantry + shunt for 6 more points.

The only problem I see is mass vehicles...we don't have enough units to kill that many units in the amount of turns necessary

you can still take a warding stave in every gk squad...and if the other guys took out everyone but him...he could mess up an entire tac squad.

Guys, reread the Ghostly Bodyguard rule. Ghost Knights have stealth!

Now the way the rule works they will only have stealth as long as Mordrak is alive...but since they poof if he dies anyways it's not that big of a deal.


Still not completely sold on them though because they don't have psycannon options. However, it at least makes them a bit more usefull since they won't require a libririan to babysit them quite as bad.

Mass vehicles?

The massed vehicle you see are either AV11 or 12. AV11? Well, you have S5 stormbolters on pretty much every squad, and every vehicle starts at S5 and works their way up. Bang for buck Assault cannons peel open transports better than lascannons, and GK get S7 versions of them!

Have a look at the 14 cannon list, and see if you think vehicles are huge problem.

Massed vehicles...for any all comers GK list.

-clarification

Again, an "all comers" GK list will need to deal with massed AV11 / 12, and it can do so. S5 and lots of rending, plus S10 hammers in CC, can easily deal with 11 rhino chassis BA and the like.

darwinn69 wrote:Guys, reread the Ghostly Bodyguard rule. Ghost Knights have stealth!

Now the way the rule works they will only have stealth as long as Mordrak is alive...but since they poof if he dies anyways it's not that big of a deal.


Still not completely sold on them though because they don't have psycannon options. However, it at least makes them a bit more usefull since they won't require a libririan to babysit them quite as bad.

Uhm well you're right... In their entry though it doesn't show the rule... But then again I just noticed it doesn't say that the Interceptor Squads are Jump Infantry either (says infantry, but the rule for personal teleporter explicitly says it makes the bearer jump infantry). Seems this codex could have used quite some more proof reading.

GeckoOBac wrote:

darwinn69 wrote:Guys, reread the Ghostly Bodyguard rule. Ghost Knights have stealth!

Now the way the rule works they will only have stealth as long as Mordrak is alive...but since they poof if he dies anyways it's not that big of a deal.


Still not completely sold on them though because they don't have psycannon options. However, it at least makes them a bit more usefull since they won't require a libririan to babysit them quite as bad.

Uhm well you're right... In their entry though it doesn't show the rule... But then again I just noticed it doesn't say that the Interceptor Squads are Jump Infantry either (says infantry, but the rule for personal teleporter explicitly says it makes the bearer jump infantry). Seems this codex could have used quite some more proof reading.

Or you could, you know, read the special rules for the units, which are never detailed in their army list entry

Pyriel- wrote:
Ward nerfed the only fun HQ to uselessness...along with the other named HQs as well.

That poor guy just can't catch a break. He's villified for making things powerful and for making things less powerful.

Poor Matt Ward.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

GeckoOBac wrote:

darwinn69 wrote:Guys, reread the Ghostly Bodyguard rule. Ghost Knights have stealth!

Now the way the rule works they will only have stealth as long as Mordrak is alive...but since they poof if he dies anyways it's not that big of a deal.


Still not completely sold on them though because they don't have psycannon options. However, it at least makes them a bit more usefull since they won't require a libririan to babysit them quite as bad.

Uhm well you're right... In their entry though it doesn't show the rule... But then again I just noticed it doesn't say that the Interceptor Squads are Jump Infantry either (says infantry, but the rule for personal teleporter explicitly says it makes the bearer jump infantry). Seems this codex could have used quite some more proof reading.

Or you could, you know, read the special rules for the units, which are never detailed in their army list entry

If that were true, why is there a column for each entry called "Special Rules" that contains things like actual special rules (see The Aegis, Grand Strategy, etc) and USR (Fearless, Eternal Warrior, etc)?

Probably an accidental oversight. Either way it doesn't matter. The way it works Ghost Knights do not have steath, but the Ghostly Bodyguard special rule give it to them anyways.

darwinn69 wrote:Probably an accidental oversight. Either way it doesn't matter. The way it works Ghost Knights do not have steath, but the Ghostly Bodyguard special rule give it to them anyways.

Yeah I agree... I doubt anybody will actually say that they don't have stealth (or that interceptor squads are not jump infantry either)... Still it took just a cursory read to notice this inconsistency... A little more proof reading couldn't have hurt I think.

GeckoOBac wrote:Still it took just a cursory read to notice this inconsistency... A little more proof reading couldn't have hurt I think.

It's consistent with other rules like it, eg Harlequin's Dance of Death.

And descent of angels, whcih is unlocked through Jump Packs.

Hell, its consistent with Jump Pack models NOT stating "deep strike" within their unit entry.