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Duncan_Idaho wrote:@AF

Sales was not what Rackham killed in the end, it was a fraudulant mother company that bought Rackham and the money package that came with it to postpone its own bancruptcy for another year.

Rackham made a lot of mistakes but non would have really killed the company. AT was a success and the translation to plastic was to fast for Confrontation. And would Rackham not have switched to plastic at least with AT it would have been dead years befpre since metal sales dropped considerably due to the limited lifetime all skirmish systems have built in.

The AT-rules were some of the best in the industry btw.

Amen, sir.

Duncan_Idaho wrote:@AF

Sales was not what Rackham killed in the end, it was a fraudulant mother company that bought Rackham and the money package that came with it to postpone its own bancruptcy for another year.

Rackham made a lot of mistakes but non would have really killed the company. AT was a success and the translation to plastic was to fast for Confrontation. And would Rackham not have switched to plastic at least with AT it would have been dead years befpre since metal sales dropped considerably due to the limited lifetime all skirmish systems have built in.

The AT-rules were some of the best in the industry btw.

You refer to eRackham. I referred to the original company that went bust, then was bought out.

eRackham then decided PPP was the way to go and has now discovered what a poor investment that was.

I will admit that AT-43 was a good system, but it was too little, too late.

At-43 failed mainly because Rackham never got past the boardgame mentality. players were expected to play on 3'x2' boards with 2-30 miniatures a side rather than on a 6'x4' with over a hundred.
Small mindedness equalled small sales.

Buying AT-43 wasn't really viable until the firesales due to bad pricing decision either and distribution was piss poor.

Also while the core mechanic was solid many of the rules sucked and took away tactical play. Most notably the blast template rules which was overly accurate, overly deadly and ignored terrain. As infantry could not effectively use terrain other than a complete LOS block tactical deployment and maneuver was null and void and AT-43 all too easily turned into a brainless dicefest.

I would really like to see the game return, but it would need a management and rules fix to go with it.

AT-43 never had nearly the following it could/should have had simply becuase they fumbled the new releases so badly for the entire first year. 3+ month delays for new releases, main starter set being unavailable for months at a time, no rulebooks or armybooks at release and then they were staggered, only 2 factions. There was a lot of interest in the game at my shop but any and all of it had bled out by the time rackham got their supplies in order, and I know the same thing happened at many other shops too.

It´s interesting how people that were not directly involved do know more than those who were involved.

@AF
This includes also the pre RE-Rackham. And you are way off with your assumptions.

@Orlanth
The US-market mainly suffered with the later releases because one rules-designer decided to listen too much to US-power-gamers. The french and german versions never had the problems the english version had to that extent. Core rules were solid, only some newer units wer a little bit off, but what really caused problems were the "official" rules that got published via the R-forum. Actually it was just one rules-designer who acted in contradiction to the intentions of the rest of the rules-designers. Equally, french version and German version easilly supported big battles, only the us-version was refitted to power-gamers wishes.

Also there was a distributor that owed Rackham a 5-6 digit sum which caused problems for Rackham and turned slight problems in major product hick-ups.

Also there was a distributor that owed Rackham a 5-6 digit sum which caused problems for Rackham and turned slight problems in major product hick-ups.

hmmm.

There was always a distributor to blame... or customs.... or china.... or bad molds. Rackham went through distributors like I change my underpants (about once every year). AFAIK all of those distributors are still in business (successfully). Some have grown dramatically. I think Rackham is at the center of all their failed relationships. They never had the people in place to run the global organization Rackham had become from a logistics standpoint.

And if 1 guy was in charge of changing rule for US Powergames, that is another lack of oversight by R. I don't blame the rules guy or the players, the death of that company rests SOLEY with their management. Announcing a move to PPP with your fantasy game 8 months in advance of its release effectively pulled sales out of their product. The eventual loss of cash flow that was funding the AT43 expansion and evaporation of the capital from going public ruined them.

The company had every intent of turning its major games into entities which could easily be sold in Target/Walmart/ToyRUs. They lost sight of 'quality' and went for mass appeal even beyond GWs greatest desire with their core products. Here is a cut out of a powerpoint given to stakeholders. The desire was to move R from its position in the upper Right quadrant to the lower "red band" and create an R product which spanned every income (Y axis) and complexity threshold (x axis). I look at this and go really? You wanted to be all things to all people. This broad focus softened the product up all they way around. Confused/upset long term customers (in the upper right). Never got production or distribution to penetrate the lower red quadrant.

Duncan_Idaho wrote:It´s interesting how people that were not directly involved do know more than those who were involved.

@AF
This includes also the pre RE-Rackham. And you are way off with your assumptions.

If you were involved, I wouldnt be admitting to it.

Here we go again... I don't get it, I mean have we not debated RACKHAM major FAIL to death for the past 3 years or so? This is not Rackham anymore and it comes a time were the reasons to why Rackham and its management Failed SO HARD are no longer interesting or even in this case part of the debate because they are dead and buried! IMO.

THis is Not Rackham, its CMON releasing some Confrontation miniatures and I for one would prefer not to go back in those mindless past argumentations... they failed period! Now lets concentrate on CMON releases because thats what interesting today and on topic... and be happy the minis survived the bad management.

I understand people with a baggage about R, only who didn't lived that fiasco dont have a baggage of some sorts, so I suggest dumping the bag and move elsewhere...There is still Conf minis coming out and R should remain sleeping on its grave.

NAVARRO wrote:I understand people with a baggage about R, only who didn't lived that fiasco dont have a baggage of some sorts, so I suggest dumping the bag and move elsewhere...There is still Conf minis coming out and R should remain sleeping on its grave.

Ok, enough Off topic. But Im confused by NAVARRO claiming those of us who didnt live it? Most of those with issues with the R Management team were in the hobby and collecting the Confro 3 minis when it all went down.

However, yes, we now have the promises of goodies and teasers to oggle...

AvatarForm wrote:

NAVARRO wrote:I understand people with a baggage about R, only who didn't lived that fiasco dont have a baggage of some sorts, so I suggest dumping the bag and move elsewhere...There is still Conf minis coming out and R should remain sleeping on its grave.

Ok, enough Off topic. But Im confused by NAVARRO claiming those of us who didnt live it? Most of those with issues with the R Management team were in the hobby and collecting the Confro 3 minis when it all went down.

However, yes, we now have the promises of goodies and teasers to oggle...

To clarify, people who lived the R Thing are the ones directly or indirectly involved, it goes from the simple client to the CEO but all of them have some baggage and feelings towards R... Clearer?

THose pain tjobs are mind blowing sweet.

@jgemrich
The US is not the hub of the world, as much as some want to believe it!

It was an German distributor and all other trouble showed up after they caused the problem. Germany was quite a big market BEFORE this distributor took over.

In the same year Rackham ceased distribution with them the same distributor lost the licenses for Magic AND Star Wars for the same reasons. If three big licenses get pulled, then ther may be a reason why!

And this German distributor has changed its name for the third time these days and is only a shadow of its former self.

One problem with french companies is that only a few people there speak really god English so this guy was trusted too much, I agree. And they made poor decisions too. But metal sales were already dropping for 1-2 years and going plastic with AT-43 saved a lot. But they should have stayed wih metal with Confrontation for the time it would have taken to establish AT-43 as a cash cow product.

@AF
Involved from the sidelines and I do not have to hide it, since I did my best to keep the product alive in my area, even though the German distributor did everything tp sabotage it.

Duncan_Idaho wrote:@jgemrich
The US is not the hub of the world, as much as some want to believe it!

It was an German distributor and all other trouble showed up after they caused the problem.
.

Neither is Germany

Duncan_Idaho wrote:
The US is not the hub of the world, as much as some want to believe it!

Actually, if kind of is!

I hope that this new venture is successful - I love the old R miniature line and I would love to see this gain enough steam so that some version of the game itself eventually returns too.

Well, as far as it concerned Rackham sales before Confro AoR it was one of three core markets.

Curse those high prices, those paintjobs are making me want that hydra. It would be a perfect chaos beast

Nice paintjobs....still not worth $75-100.

I would love for some company to buy the molds for those nice sea containers walls and bunkers they made for AT 43.

ancientsociety wrote:Nice paintjobs....still not worth $75-100.

Im not annoyed by the prices, so much as the resin instead of metal.

Very cool stuff, it gives me a strong Macfarlane vibe -

sonofruss wrote:I would love for some company to buy the molds for those nice sea containers walls and bunkers they made for AT 43.

Those containers were so good for infinity, one of the at43 highlights for me and hard to find these days.

It should've come as no surprise to me that those container and wall sets always sold out first. And yes, someone should pick up the molds for those containers and start selling them.

I'm looking forward for the price tag of that dragon. It was the best looking solo drake on the market for it's time (still is IMO) and I will be getting one of those if the price is fair.

Shawn G. (SoI)

NAVARRO wrote:Those containers were so good for infinity, one of the at43 highlights for me and hard to find these days.

Esp. the medical container with personnel!

News at gencon check the youtube vid and you will see lots of what's coming for confrontation... recasts of some old HARD to find stuff there! awesome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrQWaHHqCgk


I seeeeee a midnor cyclope there muhahahahahahah

Great, just what we need. More things to tease my wallet

That hydra is really growing on me

Kroothawk wrote:

NAVARRO wrote:Those containers were so good for infinity, one of the at43 highlights for me and hard to find these days.

Esp. the medical container with personnel!

I got one last year before Rackham went tits up, the shop keep priced it at €40, the greedy prick. But I needed it.

BrookM wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:

NAVARRO wrote:Those containers were so good for infinity, one of the at43 highlights for me and hard to find these days.

Esp. the medical container with personnel!

I got one last year before Rackham went tits up, the shop keep priced it at €40, the greedy prick. But I needed it.

Damnnnn, 40euros is a rip off, greedy prick indeed, dont you just hate when people take advantage of your needs? It happened to me when I got some aberrations from the Hybrid game.

I've had people offer me serious bank for my collection of Containers(16-18 of them including the Medtec). Would be very tempting if I didn't still play AT-43 regularly.

Hey Navarro,

Thanks for posting that video!

In the case I saw winners and losers.

They will make some serious cash off the dragon Titan, Molochs, and Cyclops. Gargoyles of Acheron and banshees though? Ludik bazaar had those in stock when 90% of the remaining confrontation metals where sold out. Scratching my head with this companies release choices.

Hydra looks better in that video than in any pictures I have seen previously.

AesSedai wrote:

They will make some serious cash off the dragon Titan, Molochs, and Cyclops. Gargoyles of Acheron and banshees though? Ludik bazaar had those in stock when 90% of the remaining confrontation metals where sold out. Scratching my head with this companies release choices.

I was surprised at those pics as well. The Gargoyles are pretty nice models, but I'm pretty sure the store a few blocks from me still has a couple of them and at least one Banshee.
Obviously everyone's idea of what they should be putting out is going to be different but I would buy the snot out of some Black Paladins, Knights of the Lion and Horned Raiders (no, Mr. Chinese recaster, I will not fall for your seductive e-bay dance).