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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/08/01 17:46:20
Subject: Ard Boyz Scenarios are up
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Slaanesh Chosen Marine Riding a Fiend
Inside a pretty, pretty pain cave... won't you come inside?
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Red Corsair wrote:Wow, way to clarify GW, those are the same as originally posted, I for one am going to lobby with my local TO that it is a 25mm model regardless...
Simply, both players choose a troops infantry model and remove them and are given a stock 25mm model...
Any one who really wants to make a big thing of the rules is really just trying to nab an exploit (using a tervigon or Dread) which is fine by me because I am positive this won't fly where I game...
I didn't see that they claim they were updated/clarified, at least not yet.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/08/01 18:55:04
Subject: Re:Ard Boyz Scenarios are up
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Ambitious Space Wolves Initiate
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looks like ard boiz is gonna suck
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/08/02 02:35:46
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/08/01 19:02:12
Subject: Ard Boyz Scenarios are up
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Badass "Sister Sin"
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Wow. That's a lot of characters.
I ran the first mission against Chaos with my razorwolves. Popped his traitor early and managed to get mine in his dz. Tied on kp, but the Traitor put me up +5. So minor victory with max BP.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/08/01 19:07:43
Subject: Re:Ard Boyz Scenarios are up
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Stern Iron Priest with Thrall Bodyguard
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Played through Mission 1 as well this weekend against Mechdar. Ended up pulling off a minor victory after murdering Eldrad and blasting his Traitor off of the board. I used a Dual Raider list with way too many toys and found that unless you cross the board fast in that mission, it'll be tough to get anywhere near a well played opponent. Oh, and Turn 1 Night Fight is going to be a godsend for Assault Heavy Armies (Here's looking at you Wolfstar).
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"United States Marine Corps: When it absolutely and positively has to be destroyed overnight"
"If all else fails, empty the magazine" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/08/01 19:11:23
Subject: Re:Ard Boyz Scenarios are up
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Daring Dark Eldar Raider Rider
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I know last year at the prelims and finals GW stated missions that didn't have seize or other special rules in the mission didn't have them period. Which turned a few armies on their heads as they thought it was just a typo by GW.
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www.gametableadventures.com |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/08/01 19:26:25
Subject: Ard Boyz Scenarios are up
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Elite Tyranid Warrior
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Played Head of da snake this weekend Mech Ba vs Mech Eldar.
Eldar pulled a minor vic as the game lasted 7 turns definally need to work on my list..
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Im not larger than life , Im not taller than trees..
6000+ 1500+ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/08/01 20:10:56
Subject: Ard Boyz Scenarios are up
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Mannahnin wrote:http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/communityAndEventsLanding.jsp?communityArticleCatId=300002
looks like i will miss it this year
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/08/01 21:31:34
Subject: Played "traitor"
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Fresh-Faced New User
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Tabled an Iron Warriors themed list with getting my traitor in his DZ by turn 4. He had 5 squads in rhinos with lascannons. 3 Havoc squads, one heavy bolter, one autocannon, one lascannon team. He also took Abadon with 10 termies. I had a DA Dualwing, 6 terminator squads, Belial, 2 LRC, and 2 small Ravenwing squads.
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3000+ 5:4:1
3000+ 12:2:2
9:1
High Elves 9:3 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/08/01 23:36:03
Subject: Re:Ard Boyz Scenarios are up
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Stealthy Dark Angels Scout with Shotgun
Savannah, GA
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Well, just read the revisions that GW promised and put out. While I wish they would just say that in round 1 you have to swap out a normal 28mm base model, but I guess that I cannot get everything. I did like to see that they added seize the initiative to the special mission rules, and define that traitor loses all war gear and special rules. No more shady tactics of rage, or things like that.
I played in a practice tournament this weekend using the old rules. We just defined the rules at the beginning of each scenario. There was no giving your opponent a Tervigon, a count-as troop model, or anything other then a normal 28m model, with the exception of the Deathwing guy, but I didn't get to see that game. It was a great tournament at Galactic Comics and Games in Statesboro, GA. 10 people was a bit on the small size, but it made for very friendly games, and was great seeing that many 2500 armies going at it. I walked away with 1st place and a good friend got second.
I guess for those of us at independent stores, we will just have to House Rule the questions. I have been talking with the other judge and we are probably just going to make a fast FAQ and post it at the store beforehand.
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Deathwing Record 3-0-0
VenomSpam Record 7-0-2 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/08/02 04:08:09
Subject: Ard Boyz Scenarios are up
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Twisted Trueborn with Blaster
East Coast
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Mannahnin wrote:Chosen Praetorian wrote:I hope that a table counts as a Massacre this year. Even if it is objectives youve obviously eliminated all threats to your side getting whatever was important enough to fight over. A major victory isnt enough
I hope the opposite. If I don't have my army in position to hold enough objectives to qualify for the Massacre, then I didn't earn it.
In an objective game the entire point of the game is for you to be able to capture the objectives (whatever they may be) at the end of the game. If there isnt anything there to oppose you in taking the objectives why shouldnt it be a complete win (massacre)? I like the idea that if your opponent is tabled then you count as holding as many objectives as you can hold (if there is 5 objectives and you have four troops then you win 4-0). The only problem with that is an ork player can possibly hold 2 or 3 objectives with one squad so if there is 5 objectives and he only has 3 squads he could hold all 5 with only 3 squads. What do you suggest then?
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'When in deadly danger,
When beset by doubt,
Run in little circles,
Wave your arms and shout.'
-Parody of the Litany of Command,
popular among commissar cadets |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/08/02 04:33:57
Subject: Ard Boyz Scenarios are up
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[DCM]
Tilter at Windmills
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Chosen Praetorian wrote:Mannahnin wrote:If I don't have my army in position to hold enough objectives to qualify for the Massacre, then I didn't earn it.
In an objective game the entire point of the game is for you to be able to capture the objectives (whatever they may be) at the end of the game. If there isnt anything there to oppose you in taking the objectives why shouldnt it be a complete win (massacre)?
The entire point of the game is to capture the objectives by the end of the game. Right. Which means in the time/turns available. If I didn't do that by the end of the game, then I didn't do it. Simple as that. If my opponent's forces drew me off the objectives, even if I slaughtered them, then I didn't do a very good job playing the mission. If, for example, I kill all of his models except a single immobilized Rhino, and have 90% of my army left, but am somehow not holding any objectives at the end then that game is a Draw. That's the rules, and it's perfectly fair.
Chosen Praetorian wrote:I like the idea that if your opponent is tabled then you count as holding as many objectives as you can hold (if there is 5 objectives and you have four troops then you win 4-0). The only problem with that is an ork player can possibly hold 2 or 3 objectives with one squad so if there is 5 objectives and he only has 3 squads he could hold all 5 with only 3 squads. What do you suggest then?
Exactly as stated before. Play out whatever turns remain. You can hold whatever you physically hold by the game's end. If I did not move my units into positions during the game to hold all the objectives, and someone else did, I did an inferior job at playing the mission, regardless of whether I tabled my opponent.
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Adepticon 2015: Team Tourney Best Imperial Team- Team Ironguts, Adepticon 2014: Team Tourney 6th/120, Best Imperial Team- Cold Steel Mercs 2, 40k Championship Qualifier ~25/226
More 2010-2014 GT/Major RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 78-20-9 // SW: 8-1-2 (Golden Ticket with SW), BA: 29-9-4 6th Ed GT & RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 36-12-2 // BA: 11-4-1 // SW: 1-1-1
DT:70S++++G(FAQ)M++B++I+Pw40k99#+D+++A+++/sWD105R+++T(T)DM+++++
A better way to score Sportsmanship in tournaments
The 40K Rulebook & Codex FAQs. You should have these bookmarked if you play this game.
The Dakka Dakka Forum Rules You agreed to abide by these when you signed up.
Maelstrom's Edge! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/08/02 05:33:28
Subject: Ard Boyz Scenarios are up
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Twisted Trueborn with Blaster
East Coast
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Mannahnin wrote:Chosen Praetorian wrote:Mannahnin wrote:If I don't have my army in position to hold enough objectives to qualify for the Massacre, then I didn't earn it.
In an objective game the entire point of the game is for you to be able to capture the objectives (whatever they may be) at the end of the game. If there isnt anything there to oppose you in taking the objectives why shouldnt it be a complete win (massacre)?
The entire point of the game is to capture the objectives by the end of the game. Right. Which means in the time/turns available. If I didn't do that by the end of the game, then I didn't do it. Simple as that. If my opponent's forces drew me off the objectives, even if I slaughtered them, then I didn't do a very good job playing the mission. If, for example, I kill all of his models except a single immobilized Rhino, and have 90% of my army left, but am somehow not holding any objectives at the end then that game is a Draw. That's the rules, and it's perfectly fair.
Chosen Praetorian wrote:I like the idea that if your opponent is tabled then you count as holding as many objectives as you can hold (if there is 5 objectives and you have four troops then you win 4-0). The only problem with that is an ork player can possibly hold 2 or 3 objectives with one squad so if there is 5 objectives and he only has 3 squads he could hold all 5 with only 3 squads. What do you suggest then?
Exactly as stated before. Play out whatever turns remain. You can hold whatever you physically hold by the game's end. If I did not move my units into positions during the game to hold all the objectives, and someone else did, I did an inferior job at playing the mission, regardless of whether I tabled my opponent.
Im gonna stick with the idea that if you table your opponent then you should get a massacre, a major at the very least. If i played target priority well enough to eliminate you as a threat completely then the objectives are obviously mine whether im in position or not. But Im usually holding a few or are in position to take most of them by that time anyway.
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'When in deadly danger,
When beset by doubt,
Run in little circles,
Wave your arms and shout.'
-Parody of the Litany of Command,
popular among commissar cadets |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/08/02 05:46:02
Subject: Ard Boyz Scenarios are up
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[DCM]
Tilter at Windmills
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The rulebook says if you table your opponent you get a Win. Since the Minor/Major/Massacre division isn't in the book, it's up to the TO or scenario writer to decide what level a wipeout is worth. Neither your opinion or mine is "right". It comes down to personal preference/what the guy making the rule decides.
Speaking as a player, and occasional TO and scenario writer, I think the game is more interesting if people have an incentive to focus more on the mission than on killing. It creates more variety in play, and it means that players feel less need to go for the wipeout. Games that feel like one-sided slaughters usually are less fun for both parties; at least IMO. YMMV.
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Adepticon 2015: Team Tourney Best Imperial Team- Team Ironguts, Adepticon 2014: Team Tourney 6th/120, Best Imperial Team- Cold Steel Mercs 2, 40k Championship Qualifier ~25/226
More 2010-2014 GT/Major RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 78-20-9 // SW: 8-1-2 (Golden Ticket with SW), BA: 29-9-4 6th Ed GT & RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 36-12-2 // BA: 11-4-1 // SW: 1-1-1
DT:70S++++G(FAQ)M++B++I+Pw40k99#+D+++A+++/sWD105R+++T(T)DM+++++
A better way to score Sportsmanship in tournaments
The 40K Rulebook & Codex FAQs. You should have these bookmarked if you play this game.
The Dakka Dakka Forum Rules You agreed to abide by these when you signed up.
Maelstrom's Edge! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/08/02 05:52:48
Subject: Ard Boyz Scenarios are up
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Twisted Trueborn with Blaster
East Coast
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Mannahnin wrote:The rulebook says if you table your opponent you get a Win. Since the Minor/Major/Massacre division isn't in the book, it's up to the TO or scenario writer to decide what level a wipeout is worth. Neither your opinion or mine is "right". It comes down to personal preference/what the guy making the rule decides.
Speaking as a player, and occasional TO and scenario writer, I think the game is more interesting if people have an incentive to focus more on the mission than on killing. It creates more variety in play, and it means that players feel less need to go for the wipeout. Games that feel like one-sided slaughters usually are less fun for both parties; at least IMO. YMMV.
I can agree with this, and i do like playing the mission presented. I actually like the 3 they have up so far, it's gonna make for interesting games
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'When in deadly danger,
When beset by doubt,
Run in little circles,
Wave your arms and shout.'
-Parody of the Litany of Command,
popular among commissar cadets |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/08/02 08:57:24
Subject: Re:Ard Boyz Scenarios are up
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Deadly Dark Eldar Warrior
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Okay, so let me propose this to you fellas.
Now, the scenarios say that you give your opponent one of your troop models in Scenario 1 to represent your traitor. My Dark Eldar are based on Batman's Rogue Gallery, so I felt it would be fitting to give them a Batman-themed model while removing one of my Kabalite Warriors, instead of giving them that Warrior. It just seems more awesome to me and creates more of a story in my mind, but I'm not sure how all of you would feel about such a situation. This is purely hypothetical, since I doubt I'll be facing any of you next weekend. I just wanted to get a general feeling for whether or not such a thing would be acceptable and not cause too much of a fuss.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/08/02 11:43:29
Subject: Ard Boyz Scenarios are up
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Sure, as long as the models conforms to standard GW rules for models. It is a tournament after all.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/08/02 12:11:39
Subject: Ard Boyz Scenarios are up
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Fixture of Dakka
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Im gonna stick with the idea that if you table your opponent then you should get a massacre, a major at the very least. If i played target priority well enough to eliminate you as a threat completely then the objectives are obviously mine whether im in position or not. But Im usually holding a few or are in position to take most of them by that time anyway.
If you win the game with having 1 model and your opponent having 0 then you arent able to capture multiple objectives to get the massacre. Thats the problem with pyrrhic victories, they dont feel much like victories. I always rule that wipe-outs are a win and you have the rest of the legal limit of turns to capture objectives
As a TO I dont believe in automatic massacres. They are deserved when the opponent is badly beaten as per the objectives of the mission. Pittsburgh qualifiers and semis will not award massacres for wipe outs Ill tell that now
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Keeper of the DomBox
Warhammer Armies - Click to see galleries of fully painted armies
32,000, 19,000, Renegades - 10,000 , 7,500, |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/08/02 14:33:09
Subject: Ard Boyz Scenarios are up
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Twisted Trueborn with Blaster
East Coast
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Kirasu wrote:Im gonna stick with the idea that if you table your opponent then you should get a massacre, a major at the very least. If i played target priority well enough to eliminate you as a threat completely then the objectives are obviously mine whether im in position or not. But Im usually holding a few or are in position to take most of them by that time anyway.
If you win the game with having 1 model and your opponent having 0 then you arent able to capture multiple objectives to get the massacre. Thats the problem with pyrrhic victories, they dont feel much like victories. I always rule that wipe-outs are a win and you have the rest of the legal limit of turns to capture objectives
As a TO I dont believe in automatic massacres. They are deserved when the opponent is badly beaten as per the objectives of the mission. Pittsburgh qualifiers and semis will not award massacres for wipe outs Ill tell that now
So you think most TOs will make it so that if your opponent is tabled then you get the rest of the game to capture objectives? If so Im fine with that. I just hope they dont stop it there and say if you dont hold any objectives then its a tie even though you could hold several. Ive had that happen
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'When in deadly danger,
When beset by doubt,
Run in little circles,
Wave your arms and shout.'
-Parody of the Litany of Command,
popular among commissar cadets |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/08/02 15:01:44
Subject: Ard Boyz Scenarios are up
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Badass "Sister Sin"
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Think about it this way.
Your an army pushing into a region to secure it for the rest of your forces. In order to do so, you need to capture 5 key points that will allow you to have strategic dominance of the area. During the capturing process you wipe out the enemy but are left under manned with only 3 people left under your command.
How are you and those 3 people going to hold 5 key points against any enemies that come along until the rest of your forces show up?
Sure you won, but you would be in a lot better position if you had at least a guy for each point to help hold them.
Sure narrative / real life explanations aren't perfect, but this is the idea.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/08/02 16:36:39
Subject: Ard Boyz Scenarios are up
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Slaanesh Chosen Marine Riding a Fiend
Inside a pretty, pretty pain cave... won't you come inside?
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This massacre argument is pointless and indicative of bad tournament formats. In the one (and only one) objective-based mission, you only need to control 5 objective points more than your opponent for a massacre. That means middle and one other objective if you table your opponent. Is that really something that will be hard to manage if you're tabling your opponent already? No? Then it's a pointless discussion... as usual on Dakka.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/08/02 16:46:07
Subject: Ard Boyz Scenarios are up
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Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos
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Skarboy wrote:This massacre argument is pointless and indicative of bad tournament formats. In the one (and only one) objective-based mission, you only need to control 5 objective points more than your opponent for a massacre. That means middle and one other objective if you table your opponent. Is that really something that will be hard to manage if you're tabling your opponent already? No? Then it's a pointless discussion... as usual on Dakka.
While I agree with you, you'll find a lot of people won't listen to even valid points if you conclude them with "it's stupid, just like you guys."
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/08/02 16:48:41
Subject: Ard Boyz Scenarios are up
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
Mesopotamia. The Kingdom Where we Secretly Reign.
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Skarboy wrote:This massacre argument is pointless and indicative of bad tournament formats. In the one (and only one) objective-based mission, you only need to control 5 objective points more than your opponent for a massacre. That means middle and one other objective if you table your opponent. Is that really something that will be hard to manage if you're tabling your opponent already? No? Then it's a pointless discussion... as usual on Dakka.
Anyway, I think these missions will be fun.
There's a lot to read here... my only real question was will the traitor be from my actual army or just an extra model that I happen to bring?
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Drink deeply and lustily from the foamy draught of evil.
W: 1.756 Quadrillion L: 0 D: 2
Haters gon' hate. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/08/02 16:49:56
Subject: Ard Boyz Scenarios are up
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Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos
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The loss of a model has other ramifcations. Can a 10 man Marine squad still combat squad after losing a traitor? What about single model troops choices, does giving up the solo model eliminate the unit, or would the oppoinent still get a KP? I"m thinking hard about taking paladins, and keeping or losing a 55pt model is a big deal.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/08/02 16:50:19
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/08/02 16:53:30
Subject: Ard Boyz Scenarios are up
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
Mesopotamia. The Kingdom Where we Secretly Reign.
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Yeah, my buddy plays Deathwing so he's got a similar issue!
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Drink deeply and lustily from the foamy draught of evil.
W: 1.756 Quadrillion L: 0 D: 2
Haters gon' hate. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/08/02 16:56:29
Subject: Ard Boyz Scenarios are up
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Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos
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My current solution is to drop in a single Paladin, so I just give up a one-man unit. that's one less KP for me, and another scoring unit in the other missions.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/08/02 16:57:14
Subject: Ard Boyz Scenarios are up
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Fixture of Dakka
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Skarboy wrote:This massacre argument is pointless and indicative of bad tournament formats. In the one (and only one) objective-based mission, you only need to control 5 objective points more than your opponent for a massacre. That means middle and one other objective if you table your opponent. Is that really something that will be hard to manage if you're tabling your opponent already? No? Then it's a pointless discussion... as usual on Dakka.
Not only did you apparently miss a good part of the discussion, you're also being needlessly insulting; knock it off.
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Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/08/02 17:03:14
Subject: Ard Boyz Scenarios are up
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
Mesopotamia. The Kingdom Where we Secretly Reign.
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Polonius wrote:My current solution is to drop in a single Paladin, so I just give up a one-man unit. that's one less KP for me, and another scoring unit in the other missions.
Hot damn, that's brilliant!
You should have kept it to yourself, though!
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Drink deeply and lustily from the foamy draught of evil.
W: 1.756 Quadrillion L: 0 D: 2
Haters gon' hate. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/08/02 17:11:24
Subject: Ard Boyz Scenarios are up
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Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator
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Monster Rain wrote:Polonius wrote:My current solution is to drop in a single Paladin, so I just give up a one-man unit. that's one less KP for me, and another scoring unit in the other missions.
Hot damn, that's brilliant!
You should have kept it to yourself, though! 
I'm just using dragio/coteaz and 1 big 10 man pally unit, and the rest acolytes. I'll keep my paladins, here, have this fellow in a bathrobe.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/08/02 17:15:45
Subject: Ard Boyz Scenarios are up
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Badass "Sister Sin"
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Monster Rain wrote:Polonius wrote:My current solution is to drop in a single Paladin, so I just give up a one-man unit. that's one less KP for me, and another scoring unit in the other missions.
Hot damn, that's brilliant!
You should have kept it to yourself, though! 
Hmm. You're basically playing 2450 against your opponents 2485 though. Not sure if that counts as brilliant.
In other news, Seize is in for all three. Independent Character for the traitor, not independent. All five objectives have points values now.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/08/02 17:18:15
Subject: Ard Boyz Scenarios are up
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
Mesopotamia. The Kingdom Where we Secretly Reign.
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Well, the single paladin that you give away isn't a paladin anymore once you hand him over though.
I was referring more to the "single unit of one troop" aspect, not necessarily the type of unit in question. It's still a pretty clever idea.
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Drink deeply and lustily from the foamy draught of evil.
W: 1.756 Quadrillion L: 0 D: 2
Haters gon' hate. |
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