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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/07/28 05:35:20
Subject: Re:Ard Boyz Scenarios are up
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Deadly Dark Eldar Warrior
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So then what's the difference between Victory/Kill/Objective Points and Battle Points? Sorry, I just want to be prepared...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/07/28 05:40:35
Subject: Ard Boyz Scenarios are up
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Mutilatin' Mad Dok
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Each Objective nets you X number of points for completing. BPs are "bonus" points added to your score.
Overall winner is determined by total number of points- actual win/loss each round is irrelevant (although getting Massacres + max BPs is, obviously, a good thing)
Victory points are (I'm assuming, can't view missions yet ::hint, hint, friendly dakkaites:  ) one of the objectives for one of the missions- they're outlined in the BRB.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/07/28 05:41:06
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/07/28 05:41:12
Subject: Re:Ard Boyz Scenarios are up
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Fixture of Dakka
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If you can't take at least one of every force org slot in the sloppy mess called a 2500 point game... then I have no pity for you, especially when the mission is disclosed.
All the 'traitor' mission basically is, is a mobile objective which you 'claim' by killing it. This is a pretty common GW mission.
'ard boyz always have absurd missions that people cry over... actually most GW tourneys have had absurd missions. They don't really care about balance or fairness and have always made missions to snap specific builds in bear traps... Everyone remembers the punishment to "all units that can move over 6" in the movement phase" from before.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/07/28 05:44:00
Subject: Ard Boyz Scenarios are up
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Plaguelord Titan Princeps of Nurgle
Alabama
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kartofelkopf wrote:
Victory points are (I'm assuming, can't view missions yet ::hint, hint, friendly dakkaites:  )
See the first page.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/07/28 05:46:51
Subject: Re:Ard Boyz Scenarios are up
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Stealthy Dark Angels Scout with Shotgun
Savannah, GA
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When you end a mission you tally up the mission objectives....there are several win stages that determine how many battle points you get...Massacre is 20 battle points, Major Victory is 17, Minor Victory is 13, Draw Game is 10, and a loss is 0. So if you have a Major Victory you get 17 Battle Points for the win. In addition to that you get bonus points for the secondary objectives...like +1 for killing the traitor...so you would get 18 Battle Points for the game. At the end of Round 1, the battle points decide who fights who...i.e. 2 guys have 20 points, 1 guy has 19, one guy has 15....so the two 20 point players will face each other and the 19 point guy fights the 15 point one. At the end you tally up again and add round 1 and round 2 battle points together. This determines who fights who in the third round like before, the highest points face off. At the end of 3 rounds you total up all the battle points to decide the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place winners.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/07/28 06:09:48
Subject: Re:Ard Boyz Scenarios are up
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Deadly Dark Eldar Warrior
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nkelsch wrote:If you can't take at least one of every force org slot in the sloppy mess called a 2500 point game... then I have no pity for you, especially when the mission is disclosed.
No need to be so harsh, I was just asking for clarification. Yes, I have the ability to fit a Fast Attack unit into my force, but there's a difference between having the ability to do something and then having an actual use for it. I don't have a Beast Master unit, Scourges aren't exactly the most competitive choice, neither are Reavers, and Hellions without a Baron seems like a big chunk of points just waiting to take a pie plate to the face.
When you end a mission you tally up the mission objectives....there are several win stages that determine how many battle points you get...Massacre is 20 battle points, Major Victory is 17, Minor Victory is 13, Draw Game is 10, and a loss is 0. So if you have a Major Victory you get 17 Battle Points for the win. In addition to that you get bonus points for the secondary objectives...like +1 for killing the traitor...so you would get 18 Battle Points for the game.
Thank you, that clears things up for me. I wasn't sure where the BP's factored into that, but now it makes sense.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/07/28 06:10:53
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/07/28 06:23:06
Subject: Re:Ard Boyz Scenarios are up
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Mutilatin' Mad Dok
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Kamsm8 wrote:
No need to be so harsh, I was just asking for clarification. Yes, I have the ability to fit a Fast Attack unit into my force, but there's a difference between having the ability to do something and then having an actual use for it.
Thank you, that clears things up for me. I wasn't sure where the BP's factored into that, but now it makes sense.
If you've no use for the FA unit, don't take it. The BPs are minor issues that don't negatively impact you but have the potential to act as a minor boost for an opponent.
In 'ard Boyz, you're either winning the games and making your BPs or nothing. Giving up an extra point to an opponent is not going to affect your standing in almost every case.
Make an effective list to maximise YOUR points- don't worry about giving up the odd extra point to an opponent.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/07/28 06:27:39
Subject: Ard Boyz Scenarios are up
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Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot
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What about Al'Rahem, who must deploy by outflanking? I'd assume that overrides the second scenario rules.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/07/28 07:01:12
Subject: Ard Boyz Scenarios are up
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Foolproof Falcon Pilot
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Standard missions always have all the rules(outflank, deepstrike and so on), these are not standard missions so I wouldn't see why he gets to outflank UNLESS his rule says he gets to outflank even when not normally allowed. If no outflank he just deploys normally.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/07/28 07:01:36
Subject: Re:Ard Boyz Scenarios are up
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Stealthy Dark Angels Scout with Shotgun
Savannah, GA
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Well I just sent off an FAQ request to GW, since the person that normally judges our Ard Boyz normally asks me to assist tournaments. Hopefully will hear something soon.
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Deathwing Record 3-0-0
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/07/28 07:09:23
Subject: Ard Boyz Scenarios are up
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Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot
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It says he MUST outflank.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/07/28 07:54:15
Subject: Ard Boyz Scenarios are up
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Foolproof Falcon Pilot
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I understand it says he MUST outflank, but if the option to outflank is not there, then he would need to deploy normally unless it specifically says he can regardless if it is allowed or not. Ultimately just run it by your TO. I am sure he won't mind letting Al'Raheem outflank and if he does, then just dont fret about it =).
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Jesus Christ changed my life, He can do the same for you!
My gaming blog regarding Eldar and soon to be CSM:Thousand Sons: http://yriel.blogspot.com/
My WIP Tyranid Fandex:
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/07/28 08:05:39
Subject: Ard Boyz Scenarios are up
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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If he must outflank, he can.
This was set by the Deamons codex deployment rule in the ard boyz and I would rule he can outflank based on precedence of the deamon ruling.
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Comparing tournament records is another form of e-peen measuring.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/07/28 08:38:57
Subject: Ard Boyz Scenarios are up
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Foolproof Falcon Pilot
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Like I said, it comes down to the specific wording and how the TO rules it. I personally was tempted to run vibro cannons depending on how the TO ruled them (if they ignored cover or not and so on). But anyway, I don't have the rules in front of me so I can only say what makes sense to me based on what I knew.
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Jesus Christ changed my life, He can do the same for you!
My gaming blog regarding Eldar and soon to be CSM:Thousand Sons: http://yriel.blogspot.com/
My WIP Tyranid Fandex:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/576691.page#6486415 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/07/28 09:41:52
Subject: Ard Boyz Scenarios are up
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Daemonic Dreadnought
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1 turn of nighrt fight in every mission.
They look good overall, just hope the semifinal missions are as good.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/07/28 11:48:08
Subject: Ard Boyz Scenarios are up
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Legionnaire
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Does it seem weird that the missions are on just the white background? It really seems like a 1st draft to me.
In years previous, didn't they have the missions on the Ard Boyz letterhead (the green Ard Boyz background)? Things just don't look as polished as before.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/07/28 12:17:36
Subject: Ard Boyz Scenarios are up
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Sslimey Sslyth
Busy somewhere, airin' out the skin jobs.
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I don't see any reason why you wouldnt be able to seize the initiative.
It doesnt tell us to roll for first turn either, it's not like we don't do that.
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I have never failed to seize on 4+ in my life!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/07/28 12:20:49
Subject: Ard Boyz Scenarios are up
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Elite Tyranid Warrior
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Evil Lamp 6 wrote:IG Commissars will have a field day with "Summary Execution" and the Traitor from Scenario 2.
QFT
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/07/28 12:21:53
Subject: Ard Boyz Scenarios are up
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Fixture of Dakka
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Seize the Initiative says specifically that in "standard" missions it is used. Either GW forgot or its on purpose, either way these arent standard much like other special mission rules
If you're planning on going to Pittsburgh you can just send me questions to see how I will be ruling things
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/07/28 12:22:31
Subject: Ard Boyz Scenarios are up
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Sslimey Sslyth
Busy somewhere, airin' out the skin jobs.
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Somebody who plays a CC space marine army wrote these missions.
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I have never failed to seize on 4+ in my life!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/07/28 13:00:23
Subject: Ard Boyz Scenarios are up
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Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos
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Yeah, I'm not seeing much reason not to rock my Draigo-wing at this. The objective mission could be tough, but I can add some solo pallys and/or dreadknights.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/07/28 13:33:59
Subject: Re:Ard Boyz Scenarios are up
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Sinewy Scourge
Grand ol US of A
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So the missions don't seem bad, they just leave me with a few questions.
First: Can I steal the initiative? As a DE player this has a huge effect on my list.
Second: In the first mission is that supposed to be a 4+/5++ or what.
Third: In the first mission what gun does he have and does it have to be a "troops" choice troop or any infantry model?
Fourth: Do you just have to have your traitor in their deployment zone at any time or at the end of the game?
Fifth: In the second mission how much is the mission in my opponents deployment zone? I am assuming 1 the same as mine but I'm not sure.
Not so much a question but more a comment. I don't like how the general is double VICTORY points in this one. What if someone runs Calgar in his termi-armor vs just a blank haemonculous? Yes the haemy is easier to kill but would only give up 100 vs how much for Calgar?
Sixth: Do you count an individual model, in mission three, or a whole squad as an hq...ie a CCS or just the Commander?
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d3m01iti0n wrote:
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/07/28 13:36:12
Subject: Ard Boyz Scenarios are up
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Boosting Space Marine Biker
Philadelphia, PA, USA
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It's disappointing that 2/3 of the missions are essentially Annihilation based, the opposite of normal. I think the game and codexes are much better balanced for objective play, so that's somewhat frustrating.
I think it would be a stretch to attribute any abilities or gear to the Traitor. It should be spelled out more clearly, but I think the intent is definitely that it's a blank, generic model with that statline and nothing else.
Night Fighting is also an unfortunate addition, though probably nearly irrelevant in the second mission, coming on Turn 6. I assume they did this to counter rampant fear of IG gunlines, but in general I think the game for the most part strongly favors assault, so any extra hindrance on shooting is unfortunate.
I assume they'll add Seize Initiative with a revised scenario pack. Hopefully Infiltrate and Outflank as well where they're missing, though those seem clearly intentional omissions. It seems they took them out in the second mission to reduce deployment and early game grabs for objectives, at the cost of eliminating a number of army builds. The missions are pretty standard, so it's unfortunate they felt it necessary to really mess around with some armies.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/07/28 13:37:04
Subject: Re:Ard Boyz Scenarios are up
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Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets
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These are my questions :
* Does the traitor keep the equipment of the model it replaced? If the traitor is a TH/SS termie does he keep the 2+/3++ save?
* Do you get the +3 points if you get the traitor in the enemy deployment zone at the end of the game or any time. The wording is ambiguous.
* There are special rules for 'Outflank' but not seize the initive or scouts. Does that mean that the deffkopta/shrike turn 1 assault is not allowed? Does that weaken Vect considerably?
* If a HQ choice consists of a IC with retinue, do you need to kill the entire squad for the point, or just the IC?
* Do you get the KP for the 3rd mission if the unit is totally destroyed, or do you get half points if its halfway destroyed. P 90 of my BRB does not clarify.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/07/28 13:50:25
Subject: Re:Ard Boyz Scenarios are up
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Boosting Space Marine Biker
Philadelphia, PA, USA
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labmouse42 wrote:
* Does the traitor keep the equipment of the model it replaced? If the traitor is a TH/SS termie does he keep the 2+/3++ save?
There's nothing there to support anything like that. It's just a physical model you're giving, not anything else. I would argue it doesn't even have to be from your army necessarily (ex: I play Space Marines, but hand over a Tech Priest I have laying around). The saves are particularly clear, as the traitor has a statline with a 4+/5+.
labmouse42 wrote:
* Do you get the +3 points if you get the traitor in the enemy deployment zone at the end of the game or any time. The wording is ambiguous.
That is a good question that should be clarified, but I think most people would play it as end of game. That's most reasonable, and I think the general assumption of the BPs is that they're being evaluated at the end.
labmouse42 wrote:
* There are special rules for 'Outflank' but not seize the initive or scouts. Does that mean that the deffkopta/shrike turn 1 assault is not allowed? Does that weaken Vect considerably?
Yes and yes.
labmouse42 wrote:
* If a HQ choice consists of a IC with retinue, do you need to kill the entire squad for the point, or just the IC?
I would think you just have to kill the IC as you've then killed a HQ unit from the opponent's army list, even though it's not by itself a unit in the game until the retinue is dead.
labmouse42 wrote:
* Do you get the KP for the 3rd mission if the unit is totally destroyed, or do you get half points if its halfway destroyed. P 90 of my BRB does not clarify.
Victory Points are entirely separate from Kill Points. The rules are on page 108. You get half points if halfway destroyed.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/07/28 13:53:43
Subject: Re:Ard Boyz Scenarios are up
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Badass "Sister Sin"
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labmouse42 wrote:These are my questions :
* Does the traitor keep the equipment of the model it replaced? If the traitor is a TH/SS termie does he keep the 2+/3++ save?
No. It is there to represent the traitor. He only gets the profile listed in the mition.
* Do you get the +3 points if you get the traitor in the enemy deployment zone at the end of the game or any time. The wording is ambiguous.
Victory conditions are almost always at the end of the mission. Otherwise, if you have 10 more KP than your opponent at any time you would get a massacre.
* There are special rules for 'Outflank' but not seize the initive or scouts. Does that mean that the deffkopta/shrike turn 1 assault is not allowed? Does that weaken Vect considerably?
Seize the Initiative is a mission rule so yes, vect is weaker. Scouts has two pieces, the outflank and the pre-move. The outflank has to be covered by the mission as it is a type of reserves, the pre-move is just a pre-move. I imagine that will be available.
* If a HQ choice consists of a IC with retinue, do you need to kill the entire squad for the point, or just the IC?
P91, it is in the KP rules. 2 KP, one for retinue, one for char.
* Do you get the KP for the 3rd mission if the unit is totally destroyed, or do you get half points if its halfway destroyed. P 90 of my BRB does not clarify.
Mission 3 is Victory Points, it even tells you what page to look on (Page 300).
The rulebook is your friend. Just saying.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/07/28 14:22:07
Subject: Ard Boyz Scenarios are up
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Fixture of Dakka
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These missions certainly beg me to bring back the loganwing..
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Keeper of the DomBox
Warhammer Armies - Click to see galleries of fully painted armies
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/07/28 15:11:08
Subject: Ard Boyz Scenarios are up
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Steadfast Grey Hunter
Columbia, SC
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At first glance the first mission seemed like a serious nut shot for my Razor Wolves and other MSU. It was to be expected since they try something like this every year. However with the 10pt differential for a massacre and the 7 for a major it should at least ease the blow a little due to it being almost a tabling situation for someone in the field to score a massacre there. Even with a win I do not see MSU armies in most cases being able to avoid enough KP loss to even pull off a Major round one. Should be good to go on the last two though so it evens itself out I think.
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The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy My brothers. And you will know My name is the Lord when I lay My vengeance upon thee. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/07/28 15:18:20
Subject: Ard Boyz Scenarios are up
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Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets
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Kaotik wrote:At first glance the first mission seemed like a serious nut shot for my Razor Wolves and other MSU. It was to be expected since they try something like this every year. However with the 10pt differential for a massacre and the 7 for a major it should at least ease the blow a little due to it being almost a tabling situation for someone in the field to score a massacre there. Even with a win I do not see MSU armies in most cases being able to avoid enough KP loss to even pull off a Major round one. Should be good to go on the last two though so it evens itself out I think.
Remember the traitor is worth 5 KP himself. If your traitor is killed and your enemy's is not, then they are 5 KP up on you, so you can view it as 5 KPs difference for a massacre and 2 for a major.
Morale of the story -- its critically important for your traitor to live. Its better to have your traitor deep in your deployment in a LR next to TH/ SS termies than it is to have him with scouts on a hill.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/07/28 15:21:19
Subject: Ard Boyz Scenarios are up
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Steadfast Grey Hunter
Columbia, SC
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That goes without saying. However it just means I have yet ANOTHER thing I need to try and keep from dying to go along with all the av11/10 and 5 man squads =)
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The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy My brothers. And you will know My name is the Lord when I lay My vengeance upon thee. |
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