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Outflank is not a special rule it is a part of the reserves rules so if the mission supports reserves then outflank should be o.k. unless the mission says you can't outflank.
Page 94 first paragraph of the page

These missions are less idiotic than in years past but not by a lot.

Spelling and grammar errors, obvious loop holes. Imbalances. Why don't they stand behind their product and just use book missions? In mission one, you can't get a major victory if your opponent doesn't have 10 or more kill points. Two missions are essentially kill points so I guess the name of the game this year is kp / vp denial.

Gw just doesn't get it sometimes.

I am 100% certain that the troop you have to give your opponent for the traitor mission has to be on a small base. I forgot the size of it. 25 mm? The one that a standard Space Marine comes on. Pretty sure it has to be that. I realize the rules don't explain but it seems pretty dumb for it not to be.

I addressed that, they said the models keep there original base size. Say if I using Deathwing. All my troops are on terminator bases. It leaves a lot open.

Outflank is not a special rule it is a part of the reserves rules so if the mission supports reserves then outflank should be o.k. unless the mission says you can't outflank.
Page 94 first paragraph of the page

Special rules and Reserves Rules are interchangeable in this case. Look at the special rules in the mission, one has infiltrate the other doesn't, one has outflank, the other doesn't.

Dark_Angels_Sav wrote:]I addressed that, they said the models keep there original base size. Say if I using Deathwing. All my troops are on terminator bases. It leaves a lot open

The question is "Does a counts-as troop choice mean thats the model you give your opponent?" In the book they are not troops, but count as troops when you bring a specific character. Giving a Termigon I can understand, or a BA dread, but a termie might not pass muster.

These are better than last years...

Update---Another Revision of the scenario will be released early next week to refine the rules. Told me that they have taken our examples and questions to the guy that wrote them and that he is rewording the scenarios. Probably Monday or Tuesday....

The question is "Does a counts-as troop choice mean thats the model you give your opponent?" In the book they are not troops, but count as troops when you bring a specific character. Giving a Termigon I can understand, or a BA dread, but a termie might not pass muster.

I asked this the first time, which they said they would get back to me on. Tervigon and BA Dreads also require you to have special items out just like Deathwing. Tervigons require one unit of termagants to be taken as troops, Death Dreads require 5-man Death Company, Deff Dread requires a Big Mek. Took all those examples.

I think we will just have to wait til next week to get the revision and hopefully it will be corrected.

labmouse42 wrote:

Dark_Angels_Sav wrote:]I addressed that, they said the models keep there original base size. Say if I using Deathwing. All my troops are on terminator bases. It leaves a lot open

The question is "Does a counts-as troop choice mean thats the model you give your opponent?" In the book they are not troops, but count as troops when you bring a specific character. Giving a Termigon I can understand, or a BA dread, but a termie might not pass muster.

lol this is hilarious, I have to say.

Just bring an extra mini from your army. Pref on a 25mm base. It isn't rocket science.

If I was running 'AB at a store, I'd break open a AOBR set and hand out tactical marines to each player.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dark_Angels_Sav wrote:Update---Another Revision of the scenario will be released early next week to refine the rules. Told me that they have taken our examples and questions to the guy that wrote them and that he is rewording the scenarios. Probably Monday or Tuesday....

Now that is good to hear.

this is hilarious, I have to say.

Just bring an extra mini from your army. Pref on a 25mm base. It isn't rocket science.

Problem was that they said you have to exchange a model from your lists. The example he gave me was if I am fielding a 10-man Tactical Squad, I could choose one of those models in that unit to be replaced by a model of my opponent's choice from his fielded units. So now I have a 9-man tactical squad and the traitor. Which causes a lot of questions. What if I was given a Hellion...a jump infantry guy.

Should it just be a 25mm base model, yep. Should the unit type be infantry, of course. Does the model retain its wargear/special abilities...no. Lastly, should I have to exchange a model...no.

These are all arguments that need to be settled now, rather then at the table.

Dark_Angels_Sav wrote:

I am 100% certain that the troop you have to give your opponent for the traitor mission has to be on a small base. I forgot the size of it. 25 mm? The one that a standard Space Marine comes on. Pretty sure it has to be that. I realize the rules don't explain but it seems pretty dumb for it not to be.

I addressed that, they said the models keep there original base size. Say if I using Deathwing. All my troops are on terminator bases. It leaves a lot open.

Outflank is not a special rule it is a part of the reserves rules so if the mission supports reserves then outflank should be o.k. unless the mission says you can't outflank.
Page 94 first paragraph of the page

Special rules and Reserves Rules are interchangeable in this case. Look at the special rules in the mission, one has infiltrate the other doesn't, one has outflank, the other doesn't.

That might be how they intend it for these missions but that is not how the rules are actually written in the main rule book. It is just like seize the iniative is not a special rule it is a part of the deployment rules.

Dark_Angels_Sav wrote:
These are all arguments that need to be settled now, rather then at the table.

Agreed. And they just need to give the common sense answer that most TOs will adopt. It's a plain infantry model with the stats listed. Yeah, that sucks a bit for some folks. Deal with it.

Reecius wrote:Why don't they stand behind their product and just use book missions?

I ALWAYS thought that should have been the very point of the hardboy to begin with.

In the past missions seemed to be a way to sneak in comp through a backdoor, but grammar and ambiguity, well thats just sloppy, maybe this is just a WIP?

You all expect entirely too much competence from this company.

Dark_Angels_Sav wrote:Update---Another Revision of the scenario will be released early next week to refine the rules. Told me that they have taken our examples and questions to the guy that wrote them and that he is rewording the scenarios. Probably Monday or Tuesday....

The question is "Does a counts-as troop choice mean thats the model you give your opponent?" In the book they are not troops, but count as troops when you bring a specific character. Giving a Termigon I can understand, or a BA dread, but a termie might not pass muster.

I asked this the first time, which they said they would get back to me on. Tervigon and BA Dreads also require you to have special items out just like Deathwing. Tervigons require one unit of termagants to be taken as troops, Death Dreads require 5-man Death Company, Deff Dread requires a Big Mek. Took all those examples.

I think we will just have to wait til next week to get the revision and hopefully it will be corrected.

Pretty standard that this happens.

I think alot of what everyone is bringing up is just people trying to poke holes in things and give GW a hard time(like always)

Like the confusion on giving your opponent a traitor from you army. Its pretty clear what happens...(except for the demon issue)

Dark_Angels_Sav wrote:

I am 100% certain that the troop you have to give your opponent for the traitor mission has to be on a small base. I forgot the size of it. 25 mm? The one that a standard Space Marine comes on. Pretty sure it has to be that. I realize the rules don't explain but it seems pretty dumb for it not to be.

I addressed that, they said the models keep there original base size. Say if I using Deathwing. All my troops are on terminator bases. It leaves a lot open.

Outflank is not a special rule it is a part of the reserves rules so if the mission supports reserves then outflank should be o.k. unless the mission says you can't outflank.
Page 94 first paragraph of the page

Special rules and Reserves Rules are interchangeable in this case. Look at the special rules in the mission, one has infiltrate the other doesn't, one has outflank, the other doesn't.

Infiltrate is no longer a mission special rule either. It is a USR that a unit can use during deployment. No where does it say anything about the mission having to allow infiltrators. People (like whoever wrote the Aard Boyz missions) thinking that the mission needs to allow it are remembering things from old codex's and 3rd and 4th edition.

If they don't want to allow a USR to be used it needs to be stated that it can't be used as the default is that it can.

Outflank is an ability given to any unit that has the Scout or Infiltrate USR if the mission allows reserves.

Scenario 1: Is an old one, but very much a winnable mission for any army. Massacres may be hard to come by (especially for horde armies and MSU armies, these will have so many that tabling may be the only way to massacre). I personally have 19 KP, a little high but still reasonable.

Scenario 2: I love this mission, Seize ground with a mandatory 5 objectives, plus table quarters. This will force armies to be maneuverable or lose in a hilariously awful fashion. I can't wait to see the carnage at the table center.

Scenario 3, Old fashioned assassination game. It's also great to see VP's again. This will favor hordes more than any other army. This also bones armies with extremely expensive HQ's, Swarmlord's are an automatic non take, Draigo will be pretty difficult to justify, Vect will be a pretty large points bomb. This could be a heartbreaker scenario if the HQ is essential to the army's destructive capabilities.

Most of the elements of these missions are from the old RTT missions that GW use to give out to stores.

Objectives worth more points than before?

Doesn't look like I'll be enjoying any of that once I get tabled by turn 2.

Kamsm8 wrote:Damn, so if I don't use any Fast Attack, my opponent automatically gains a BP in the last scenario? I've never done a 'Ard Boyz before, what exactly are BP's?

I don't think so. If you had 0 Fast Attack units to start the game, then I don't think you'd give up a point for this, but if you had them in your list and just chose not to use them, then I'd see how that would work against you. It'd be nice if someone can clarify.

Also, I have a question about Scoring. Say in the chance that you table your opponent. Do you get all the possible points available, including the bonus ones? I know that if you table someone, it counts as a Massacre in your favor, but with the bonus points, I'm not too sure.

Example: In Scenario 2, you're able to table your opponent, but only have 1 Troop choice remaining, and can not claim control all 5 objectives on the table. Would you get the point anyway because your opponent has been completely wiped out, or no?

Stormrider wrote:Scenario 1: Is an old one, but very much a winnable mission for any army. Massacres may be hard to come by (especially for horde armies and MSU armies, these will have so many that tabling may be the only way to massacre). I personally have 19 KP, a little high but still reasonable.

Scenario 2: I love this mission, Seize ground with a mandatory 5 objectives, plus table quarters. This will force armies to be maneuverable or lose in a hilariously awful fashion. I can't wait to see the carnage at the table center.

Scenario 3, Old fashioned assassination game. It's also great to see VP's again. This will favor hordes more than any other army. This also bones armies with extremely expensive HQ's, Swarmlord's are an automatic non take, Draigo will be pretty difficult to justify, Vect will be a pretty large points bomb. This could be a heartbreaker scenario if the HQ is essential to the army's destructive capabilities.

Unless they change it, you can nominate any HQ, so you can choice a cheap HQ to be double points.

Rurouni Benshin wrote:

Kamsm8 wrote:Damn, so if I don't use any Fast Attack, my opponent automatically gains a BP in the last scenario? I've never done a 'Ard Boyz before, what exactly are BP's?

I don't think so. If you had 0 Fast Attack units to start the game, then I don't think you'd give up a point for this, but if you had them in your list and just chose not to use them, then I'd see how that would work against you. It'd be nice if someone can clarify.

Also, I have a question about Scoring. Say in the chance that you table your opponent. Do you get all the possible points available, including the bonus ones? I know that if you table someone, it counts as a Massacre in your favor, but with the bonus points, I'm not too sure.

Example: In Scenario 2, you're able to table your opponent, but only have 1 Troop choice remaining, and can not claim control all 5 objectives on the table. Would you get the point anyway because your opponent has been completely wiped out, or no?

First off I do think that with no fast attack you automatically give up those bonus points.

I don't think you get all battle points unless you actually earn them at the end of the game, which in this case is when you table your opponent. Therefore no you would not get the bonus point for having all objectives at the end of the game. On a lighter note, battle points aren't that important from the bonus objectives if you get the massacer. Sure you want to be able to get as many as possible but don't worry or focus on them to much as the massacre will still give you more points.

+1 if you kill all of your opponents Fast Attack choices. (If your opponent doesn’t have
any fast attack choices you score this point)

This appears pretty specific, that if someone has no FA choices, their opponent gets +1 BP. And this is not necessarilly given up; rather, it is earned, because both players can get it.

Plus, IIRC, this is how it has been handled in the past: no XXX slot choices, then award automatic BP...

In the objective mission last year it specifically said if you table your opponent you only get a major victory. You had to have all objectives to get a massacre. I know bc I tabled my opponent but only had enough troops left to claim 3 objectives. Sucked.

Rbb wrote:In the objective mission last year it specifically said if you table your opponent you only get a major victory. You had to have all objectives to get a massacre. I know bc I tabled my opponent but only had enough troops left to claim 3 objectives. Sucked.

But makes sense. Part of 40k is making sure that you can meet your objective. You potentially could have been less aggressive, not tabling your opponent and gotten more objectives.

looks like ard boiz is gonna suck

Ragnarok2070 wrote:

Answer 2 "Each player will give his opponent 1 troop model to represent the traitor." Sounds to me like the model should be something from your basic troop choice selection and he gains the independent character special rule with the stat line:

WS BS S T I W A LD S
4 4 4 4 5 2 2 10 4+/5+

It does not say that you trade special characters like Draigo or Mephiston or Abaddon, so what ever troop choice you take the model out of to hand to your opponent gets a replacement from your opponents army and no it should not have an effect on whether the squad can use combat tactics.

The traitor is an Independent Character and seems to perform like this the entire game. It will have no bearing whatsoever on any other troop unless they join that unit. They do not seem to have any wargear or special rules associated with them. Without any clarification, these are the rules as written.

This is a mission of protection that essentially supports any army type, while it might give a slight advantage to mobile mech armies (who give up more KPs anyway so it seems to be a wash).

My goal this year? have 2500 points in less than 5 kps.

Black Rage wrote:My goal this year? have 2500 points in less than 5 kps.

Draigo and Paladins. Done.

Keep in mind that KP denial only helps you in the first scenario.

pretre wrote:

Black Rage wrote:My goal this year? have 2500 points in less than 5 kps.

Draigo and Paladins. Done.

Keep in mind that KP denial only helps you in the first scenario.

But scenario 3 is vp, with less than 5 kps, the vps MIGHT be a little harder to come by.

Black Rage wrote:

pretre wrote:

Black Rage wrote:My goal this year? have 2500 points in less than 5 kps.

Draigo and Paladins. Done.

Keep in mind that KP denial only helps you in the first scenario.

But scenario 3 is vp, with less than 5 kps, the vps MIGHT be a little harder to come by.

True, keep in mind that I only have to kill half of your 800 point Paladin squad to get half points though.

Still tough, but not as bad as KP where 1 remaining paladin screws me.

pretre wrote:

Black Rage wrote:

pretre wrote:

Black Rage wrote:My goal this year? have 2500 points in less than 5 kps.

Draigo and Paladins. Done.

Keep in mind that KP denial only helps you in the first scenario.

But scenario 3 is vp, with less than 5 kps, the vps MIGHT be a little harder to come by.

True, keep in mind that I only have to kill half of your 800 point Paladin squad to get half points though.

Still tough, but not as bad as KP where 1 remaining paladin screws me.

anyways thats moot cause i am bringing daemons.