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pretre wrote:

Kaotik wrote:

Anglacon wrote:

Chosen Praetorian wrote:, if they want to have competitive play then right competitive rules.

Agreed. And for gods sake, when they right the rules, make sure they do it wright the first time!

They will just turn write around and re-right them wrong.

lol nicely done.

Seriously guys, this is GW. Why is anyone surprised at this point?

Part of 'Ard Boyz, going back to Gladiator days, is dealing with crazy missions with little direction. That's the experience, like it or not. If you plan on doing a lot of these events over the years, get used to it.

BUUUUT MOOOOOM! Haha i do usually end up liking the missions after Ive played them a few times, that's all this weekend and coming week will consist of for me. I just wish we didnt have to sit around wondering if thats how its gonna be done come game day. Oh well, adapt and survive

Ok, so I have a question here. In the third mission it states "Each player must nominate a single HQ choice to be your army general. This choice is worth double victory points for this mission." Now my question is particular to the IG codex. This line says I must nominate a single HQ choice, in the IG codex under the entry for a Priest/Techpriest it states (Quote IG Codex pg93) "Priests do not use up any Force Organization chart selections, but are otherwise treated as seperate HQ units." (end quote).

When I first read the mission, I thought ok, well it has to be a CCS or a Lord Commissar, arguably the two most utilized options in the codex. But upon further research and the statement from the IG codex of seperate HQ units, I must say, that it leaves the door wide open for me to trade a 45-60 point HQ only worth 90-120 VP in exchange for one worth 3 or 4 times as much.

What do you guys think?

It's definitely an HQ Unit, but the question is whether it counts as an HQ choice for the purposes of the mission. Your best bet is to contact the organizer at your local location ahead of time and ask how he's going to rule.

Dark_Angels_Sav wrote:

Why is there even a question on if you can give your opponent a tervigon or death company dreadnought? Why would you *do* such a thing in the first place?

Because it is a easy way to get 5 KP fast and easy. Let say I give you a space marine with boltgun, and you give me a death company dreadnought. Now it is still a walker, but now it has no armor, since it has a Toughness and Wounds value. So now you can ID it, with a str 8 weapon value. If your opponent gives you a MC, Jump Infantry, or Biker...you cannot put it in a transport with the unit. There are a ton of ways to abuse the way it works. IG gives a Chaos daemon a guy...IG goes first. The traitor cannot deep strike in with the unit, since doesn't have the special rule, so you have to deploy the unit on the board. IG goes first. He kills the traitor first turn with a LasCannon, Manticore Missile...etc.

Is it a cheesy tactic...yes, but it is legal.

Regardless of what model they give you, it only "represents the traitor". He becomes infantry and can ride in a transport. So no matter what model you give me, it's going in a 5 man unit of wracks in a raider, and being placed in reserve.

Alright scenario two where each objective is worth a set amount of " points" are the points refering to extra objective" points" or battle " points " ?

Hey guys, I have been reading through this thread for a bit now, but I just wanted to confirm/ask a question. Regarding the traitor mission, if you are playing daemons. how does the traitor deploy, he does not have the daemon special rule so will he just walk on from reserves/be deployed like a regular unit. Or will he be deep struck with a daemon squad. If this has already been answered, Sorry.

Clauss wrote:Hey guys, I have been reading through this thread for a bit now, but I just wanted to confirm/ask a question. Regarding the traitor mission, if you are playing daemons. how does the traitor deploy, he does not have the daemon special rule so will he just walk on from reserves/be deployed like a regular unit. Or will he be deep struck with a daemon squad. If this has already been answered, Sorry.

Just started reading the thread, and skipped to the end. Not that this is binding anywhere else, but at my two shops we will be having the traitor deploy with a demon unit when the demon unit enters play, and not be sitting by himself in the middle nowhere.

Personally I love the mission with different point cost objectives, and to the guy who asked (to lazy to scroll down) they are not battle points as those are awarded based on criteria for the missions and how well you win (massacre, major...etc).
The mission with the traitor, while it doesn't bug me if it is one of the models in my army (bye 9 point warrior), could be abused if a GK player has to give up a terminator or a BA player an assault marine when they recieve in turn a little snivelling gretchin model. That starts the ork player off better from the start, while granted not alot at this point level.
As to victory points...yay I love them so much more than KP.
Why do people always expect so much from GW? You are only going to be dissapointed. So do what I do and don't expect alot, and you can be pleasently supprised when they surpass your expectations.
As for Daemons and the traitor, while the way it looks he would be by himself to start, or in reserve alone. My FLGS has decided that he should be able to DS with the Daemons as the bring him back to reality with them from the warp.

Here is my 55 point Paladin, thank you for your 5 point Ork. Oh well it will be funny.

Pittsburgh will be using the above addition for demons as well.. I gotta read everything closely and determine what also doesnt make sense

Wow, just took a look at these more out of curiosity than anything else. A very good read

So by RAW if they are stating only specific special rules are being used, and this supersedes the BGB then no other universal special rules would be used in mission one except infiltrators?? Since there are only Reserves (which include outflank), Deep strike, and Night fight listed as mission special rules by including infiltrate they are not including the rest of the USRs. Also in mission 2 outflanking would be allowed as this is included by default in reserve rules on pg 94.

The other terms included would be superfluous as the pages they reference include specific descriptions of what each rule does.

It is useful to know that seize the initiative is being used in each mission and would bear listing as these are not standard scenarios.

This also should give rules lawyers a good rant to start the tourney with in their locations.

Fun times

Does the third mission recieve Night Fight on turn 1 still for being Dawn of War deployment?

Or does the Missions over-rule the BRB in this case since it doesnt state that it occurs like the other two missions?

hi, im getting ready for the upcoming ard boyz and am excited about it. i havnt been playing long but im playing in it to learn things

but i have a few questions on mission one...ive looked in the previous posts and couldnt find an answer. i understand that you have to give your opponent a troop model from your list. but when you give it to your opponent does it then become a friendly unit for my opponent or does it maintain enemy unit status?

as little as there is to the mission im actually confused

shank911 wrote:Does the third mission recieve Night Fight on turn 1 still for being Dawn of War deployment?

Yes.

Or does the Missions over-rule the BRB in this case since it doesnt state that it occurs like the other two missions?

No.

It lists 'Dawn of War' deployment and does not list any changes to that deployment or exceptions.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Shabby wrote:hi, im getting ready for the upcoming ard boyz and am excited about it. i havnt been playing long but im playing in it to learn things

but i have a few questions on mission one...ive looked in the previous posts and couldnt find an answer. i understand that you have to give your opponent a troop model from your list. but when you give it to your opponent does it then become a friendly unit for my opponent or does it maintain enemy unit status?

as little as there is to the mission im actually confused

Yes. That models ceases to be part of your army and becomes an infantry model with the stats listed in the mission. It loses all special rules, wargear, etc. It essentially becomes a proxy for the traitor. You could give him a warlord titan or a grot, it will have the same profile, stats, etc.

shank911 wrote:Or does the Missions over-rule the BRB in this case since it doesnt state that it occurs like the other two missions?

Dawn of war uses nightfight.

ah alrighty i figured it became a friendly unit...makes it alot easier to deal with

No it is not an enemy for him...the model he gives you however is an enemy to him.

Shabby wrote:um thats kinda what i didnt ask

so i understand that you give your opponent a model from your army but does the model i give my opponent count as a enemy unit for my opponent

It becomes part of their army, and therefore is NOT an enemy unit.

There will be a lot of minor victories in round 1 as you need 7 kp or 10 kp to get a major or a massacre.

Just means the person who beats up the newbies will win as usual :p

Well, these seem to have fewer special conditions that past 'Ard Boyz scenarios, I wonder what gives with that? Are they hoping to have a more diverse amount of players make to the secondaries?

Based on the "quality" of the writing and the fact that they didnt even bother to print the rules on the official 'ard boyz background Id gather that they just dont care

Its always been a tournament to sell people 2500 pt armies for the chance of winning their money back. Im not real confident it'll be around next year

If you plan on attending the Pittsburgh prelims please read these rules. I spent the time to clean them up and write them in a manner of someone who got past 4th grade english

Pittsburgh 2011 40k 'ard boyz preliminary missions

These are the rules I will be using

You can't do that, Kirasu. Half the fun of 'Ard Boyz is hour-long rules arguments over poorly written scenarios. Bonus points if a chair gets thrown or a table flipped.

Kirasu wrote:These are the rules I will be using

while I like what you did, for the traitor mission, you have you must give your opponent a infanty model. What if I don't have one, what if I have two Ork big meks and are using two Deff Dreads as my troop choices or am demons and have Nurglings as my troops? I wrote our stores FAQ and just stated the traitor models unit type becomes infantry. While you can get some stupid stuff like a rhino or a tervigon as the model you receive, it still follows the infantry rules.

General_Chaos wrote:

Kirasu wrote:These are the rules I will be using

while I like what you did, for the traitor mission, you have you must give your opponent a infanty model. What if I don't have one, what if I have two Ork big meks and are using two Deff Dreads as my troop choices or am demons and have Nurglings as my troops? I wrote our stores FAQ and just stated the traitor models unit type becomes infantry. While you can get some stupid stuff like a rhino or a tervigon as the model you receive, it still follows the infantry rules.

Guess what the big meks are? Infantry. If you chose to go that route I would say that you give up a Big Mek. 'Ard Boyz is all about tailoring competitive lists to the missions.

Also what happens when you table your opponent? Does the game end, do you keep playing, or like the old 'Ard Boyz missions do you get max battle points?

Akroma06 wrote:

General_Chaos wrote:

Kirasu wrote:These are the rules I will be using

while I like what you did, for the traitor mission, you have you must give your opponent a infanty model. What if I don't have one, what if I have two Ork big meks and are using two Deff Dreads as my troop choices or am demons and have Nurglings as my troops? I wrote our stores FAQ and just stated the traitor models unit type becomes infantry. While you can get some stupid stuff like a rhino or a tervigon as the model you receive, it still follows the infantry rules.

Guess what the big meks are? Infantry. If you chose to go that route I would say that you give up a Big Mek. 'Ard Boyz is all about tailoring competitive lists to the missions.

Try actually reading the change, Akroma.

"Before deployment each player chooses a single infantry model from one of their Troop choices and exchanges their choice with that of their opponents.

Is a Big Mek a Troops choice? No.

By Kirasu's change, General_Chaos receives a traitor but does not give one.

Akroma06 wrote:
Guess what the big meks are? Infantry. If you chose to go that route I would say that you give up a Big Mek. 'Ard Boyz is all about tailoring competitive lists to the missions.

so give up my Hq choice... Interesting, hope your not a TO

Uh if someone shows up with an army with 2 deff dreads as his only troops to an 'ard boyz then I guess I'll deal with that.. I love hypothetical situations that will probably never happen

But yes I did not think about someone showing up with an army that cannot win the tournament because they'll basically automatically lose the 2nd mission.

Im more amazed that anyone would bring 1 deff dread let alone TWO big meks AND two deff dreads. Is this a serious question ? :(

In either case, fixed!

Ok A) didn't notice there was an update...sheeesh my bad and B) if that was the case...well..."Each player will give his opponent 1 troop model form your army list to represent the traitor." So I would say that a deff dread is a model no? So one of them is the traitor and is going over to the other side!