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KingDeath wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:

KingDeath wrote:
No, it is the very worst with the possible exception of a galaxy dominated by chaos ( although we probably couldn't speak of a human species in such a galaxy ).
There have been other human societies, which were mostly destroyed during the great crusade, which were a viable alternative to the Imperium of Man.

You do know that Emperor wanted atheist, progressed Human race? Not Dysoptian superstitious empire his Imperium has became. And Imperium is still the best because every other outcome will meant that Human race would not survive.

Pure speculation. I can speculate too. Societies like the Interrex, which managed to survive the terrible years of the long night largely undamaged, would have possibly provided a much better chance for the human species than the ultimately fractured and declining Imperium of Man. Besides that, whatever the carriongod planned for the human species he failed, badly. Not only did he tie the fate of his Imperium to the martian brotherhood, an organistion for which progress and inovation are signs of mindrust, his very actions also helped to disenchant half of it's newly forged imperium enough allow the catastrophe of the Horus Heresy. Sure, one can blame the warmaster and chaos for it, but both needed willing followers and the Emperor's incompetence was what provided those.
So no, the Imperium of Man is not the only way for the human species to survive, perhaps it is even the worst one.

I agree with you Remember also Auretian technocracy and "false" Earth conquered by Luna Wolves in Horus Rising.

BrotherCoa wrote:The Emperor never said to anyone his plan, so High Lord assumed what he wanted anyway and continue that way.
The Emperor should pointed out Guiliman to sit on the throne until he is able to return. If only that happened...
This way Imperium is lead by rich aristocracy instead of Emperor's sons ( HLoT aldo have power are denied by majority of the Planetary Governors ).

And why do you think that this aristocracy cares about the humanity? They care about their power held by authoritarian regime and medieval church.
So both Imperial and Chaos leaders don't care about fates of mortals.

Brother Coa wrote:The Emperor never said to anyone his plan, so High Lord assumed what he wanted anyway and continue that way.
The Emperor should pointed out Guiliman to sit on the throne until he is able to return. If only that happened...
This way Imperium is lead by rich aristocracy instead of Emperor's sons ( HLoT aldo have power are denied by majority of the Planetary Governors ).


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KingDeath wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:

KingDeath wrote:
No, it is the very worst with the possible exception of a galaxy dominated by chaos ( although we probably couldn't speak of a human species in such a galaxy ).
There have been other human societies, which were mostly destroyed during the great crusade, which were a viable alternative to the Imperium of Man.

You do know that Emperor wanted atheist, progressed Human race? Not Dysoptian superstitious empire his Imperium has became. And Imperium is still the best because every other outcome will meant that Human race would not survive.

Pure speculation.

It is said so in the HH novels.

And yet his actions prove the opposite. Didn't he allow the Mechanicum to monopolize nearly all of human technology? Didn't he style himself as an almost godlike ( complete with golden armour, a halo of blinding light...) being, even if he always claimed that he wasn't a god? But even if he truly wanted a secular, progressive Imperium he wasn't up to the task. Your idea that the "Imperium is still the best because every other outcome will meant that Human race would not survived" is simply speculation. I can speculate just as well that other, more open and truly progressive societies ( which did exist right until the Great Crusade ) would have served mankind much better.

Humanity survived very well before the Imperium, trading with aliens they now try to destroy simply because they aren't human.

Brother Coa wrote:

Durza wrote:
You're imagining it. I figure it shows how few of the Imperium's warriors actually give a damn about who they fight, and how many simply kill for the sake of it (kind of like their enemy). Also, I like the music.

What? This clearly shows how faithfully they fight in the Emperor's name, it show they loyalty and their faith unbroken. It truly is masterpiece.
Every kill is for the Emperor, every sacrifice is for the Emperor oh joy...

'All of life, feel the reaper.' 'Oh, to walk upon the bloodstained ground.' 'We are shodowy death' 'Anoint them with their own blood.' 'Faith is bast when unquestioning.' 'After a thousand battles, one only sees death.' 'Witness your doom.' 'Glory for the first man to die.' 'I am fear incarnate.' 'Death is my meat, terror my wine.' 'A plea of innocence is guilty of wasting my time.' 'Fear my wrath, the firey destroyer of worlds.' 'All shall burn.'

You do realize half of that is not Imperial at all?

It's all Imperial quotes.

'All of life, feel the reaper.' - Eldar
'We are shodowy death' - Eldar
'After a thousand battles, one only sees death.' - Chaos
'Death is my meat, terror my wine.' - Dark Eldar
'Fear my wrath, the firey destroyer of worlds.' - Eldar

Why exactly was that last one said by a Dreadnought?

'Fear my wrath, the firey destroyer of worlds.' - Avatar of Khaine.

I see that you didn't play Dawn of War at all.

If I want to play Warhammer, I play Warhammer. There's far better games than DoW using the same format. When introduced to the piece, I was told that it was a collection of Imperial quotations, so sorry for the inaccuracy.

If you wanted to use other faction then Imperials the man have done videos for others as well.

Keh. I just said I was told it was all Imperial. I didn't intend other factions to be in it.

KingDeath wrote:Some people have a rather rosy view of the Imperium of Man. The place is a dystopian hell for the vast majority of mankind. Backbreaking and tedious work in some hive manufactorium where every sign of disobedience is severely punished is the rule for many, all in an atmosphere of constant fear and paranoia, for the alien, the heretic and the mutant are, at least according to the imperial authorities, every ready to strike.
If you endure the paranoia and the work then you better show some piety too, unless you want to burn on a witchfinders pyre. Oh, and heresy can be something as trivial as praying a few more minutes longer than
the sheduled praying time ( source: Blood of Martyrs ).
Still, if you are pious, obedient and uncomplaining ( just as good cattle should be ) then there is still the chance to die of some bureocratical oversight. Some administratum drone made a mistake and now your world is suposed to tithe foodstuff in the middle of a famine? Well, have fun starving. Your world's tithes have been doubled or trippled because of some emergency many hundreds of lightyears away? Well, don't even think
about complaining or you will probably end your days on a pyre.

In the Imperium of Man you are nothing, less than nothing even. You are the slave of your Imperial Govenor for the Imperium does not care if you are abused and exploited for as long as your leadership can fulfill it's obligations to the Imperium the lords of terra are content. in the Imperium of Man you are a slave, in some places a well fed one, but as soon as you take a step away from established imperial orthodoxy then you, your family and everyone you know will pay dearly for it.

The imperium's worst sin is perhaps that it claims that all this is necessary to protect mankind. That is wrong. The imperium is it's own greatest enemy. It is inefficient, backwards, utterly dogmatic and possibly
corrupted beyond help. It's very existence helps to spread the taint of chaos for who else but the dark gods is is there to provide succor to the abused masses when they have finaly enough of their wretched existance in the carriongod's name?

I'd say it is not like that at all. The vast majority are designated as civilised worlds and as long as tithes are paid the governor can do as he/she pleases, the Imperium doesn't interfere with conflicts if they don't affect the wider Imperium and may rule as they wish, democracies exist as do totalitarian governments. Populations on Civilised worlds probably live lives that are not that much different to ours today. Work can on these worlds can vary considerably. Shop owners, restaurants and hotels for off worlders to mining and farm labour which range from well paid to press ganged. Todays earth could fit quite nicely in the 40k universe.

Dying because of bureaucratic errors are probably not that common if you consider that all tithes are organised at sub-sector level, it is unlikely that a famine would go unnoticed. You'd most likely attract the attention of witchhunters and the inquisition if rebellions are found to have been influenced by outside forces such as a genestealer or chaos cult, how common they are is difficult to tell, Gravalax for example was infiltrated by a Genestealer cult and had contact with the Tau for generations. Once both were defeated the planet had no contact with either enemy for 165 years and counting. In the Imperium you are more likely to die at work than murdered by an alien or chaos cultist, but then that is the same today.

I doubt complaining gets you executed. I also doubt the average civilian has any knowledge of aliens beyond fairy tale stories told to scare naughty children, knowledge of the great enemy is suppressed to the point that no knowledge exists at all.

I feel you have an extreme view of the Imperium, it is not as bad as you claim, any society would fit in the imperium, from a social paradise to a dystopian hell hole, I believe your average Imperial world sits between the two. Since the Imperium as a whole is so decentralised it's impossible to claim that it fits any one form of government. The Imperium is kind of a federation of systems and empires with central authorities keeping themselves at arms length from individual affairs, this allows for a huge variety of governments so no one umbrella term can be used to describe it.
Is the Imperium dystopian? Not to a huge degree in my view since the Lords of Terra ask surprisingly little from their planetary lords and offer complete flexibility in the way they rule, when they do repress it is usually for a good reason. It would be more accurate to claim that individual worlds can be dystopian, not the wider Imperium itself.

@Molten Butter:
Page 191 says thousands of civilians were killed when the Tau attacked the PDF, that was before the Genestealer cult was identified. Either way it shows they have no qualms about collateral damage. The tau didn't systematically butcher the civilians, I was mistaken and I apologise.

Oh and no harm done, Molten Butter.

After reading all of this debate I'm quite aggravated about how stupid some of these points are. People making huge, sweeping, absolute statements because they are bias or just want to argue... People quoting their favorite source to back up a point, etc. Take an aerial view of 40k and focus on the topic question.

Manthanator68 wrote:Which is really better, a jerk Imperium who murders planets of entire populations cause they have too many fricken people, or a Chaos who are just deoted followers of their gods?

This is obviously a question about "who is more evil?" The only thing that is really absolute is that Chaos is altogether evil. In order for this story to be good there has to be a struggle between good and evil, at least to some degree. I would aruge, though carefully, that mankind is the protagonist, yet at the same time, at times, the antagonist (a wonderful paradox 40k makers have come up with, truly) of the 40k universe. That is what they are, evil. If you read HH you can watch the moral/ethical degradation that "good" imperial Space Marines go through when they are tainted and corrupted by Chaos. Use logic, this is the only way this could have happened....good (though not pure good) turned to bad - duh. Or bad, to worse (I like the previous). The authors write in a way that specifically shows "relatively" good, moral, once ethical humans falling into evil. How else could the fall to Chaos happen? They defied MANY "good" principles in order to fall to chaos. They chased power, betrayed honor and allegience, followed selfish ambitions, murdered their brothers (et tu, Brute?), the list goes forever! Just read HH again and you see good go to bad.

What is so great about 40k is that it connects with the real-life human condition. We are all screwed-up, flawed human beings who all do evil (to some degree), yet we have moments of goodness and hopes for what is right! 40K certainly has characters who capture this dynamic. A flawed mess of raw talent rises out of the ashes and does great things. Further, addressing the Imperium as a whole, people I know that live in the middle east say things like, "I love your people (Americans), but I hate your government." The body/institution may be corrupt, to a large degree, but not all of the individual members of that body are corrupt. For example, Death Gaurd (Chaos traitors) had an examplar in stalwart goodness, Nathaniel Garro. Garviel Loken, Saul Tarvitz, blah blah. These guys were certainly good (although they were atheistic murders at times!). Chaos is exclusively BAD! Imperium is not exclusively bad! Dark Eldar, exclusively bad! Eldar, are not exclusively bad (they have done bad things, but it isn't their identity). Are humans in real life bad? Yes! Are all of them bad all the time? No.

Now, from a personal indulgence.... I like 40k because I see how messed-up and dark the world is and how despairing the future is for mankind. I really fell in love with it (early in my readings) when I knew this fact of despairing future for humanity and then heard things like: Magnus mentioning the known wearabouts of Leman Russ. Or that El'Johnson is just sleeping and will return, etc. What could be more of an epic than a glorious return in the face of hopelesness?!? But, GW will probably never act on such hopes and 40k will continue to be the struggle against the all-encompassing evil that is everywhere and in everyone - because that is what 40k is. Although I would certainly not be opposed to such "good" things happening!!!! Point being - humanity is bad in 40k...yet there is a VERY SMALL SLIVER of hope - oh so small. My 10 cents.

Man you guys are all wrong, Chaos and the Imperium are both terrible. Be a Ork and do whatever the zog you want to do.

Fehl wrote:After reading all of this debate I'm quite aggravated about how stupid some of these points are. People making huge, sweeping, absolute statements because they are bias or just want to argue... People quoting their favorite source to back up a point, etc. Take an aerial view of 40k and focus on the topic question.

Manthanator68 wrote:Which is really better, a jerk Imperium who murders planets of entire populations cause they have too many fricken people, or a Chaos who are just deoted followers of their gods?

This is obviously a question about "who is more evil?" The only thing that is really absolute is that Chaos is altogether evil. In order for this story to be good there has to be a struggle between good and evil, at least to some degree. I would aruge, though carefully, that mankind is the protagonist, yet at the same time, at times, the antagonist (a wonderful paradox 40k makers have come up with, truly) of the 40k universe. That is what they are, evil. If you read HH you can watch the moral/ethical degradation that "good" imperial Space Marines go through when they are tainted and corrupted by Chaos. Use logic, this is the only way this could have happened....good (though not pure good) turned to bad - duh. Or bad, to worse (I like the previous). The authors write in a way that specifically shows "relatively" good, moral, once ethical humans falling into evil. How else could the fall to Chaos happen? They defied MANY "good" principles in order to fall to chaos. They chased power, betrayed honor and allegience, followed selfish ambitions, murdered their brothers (et tu, Brute?), the list goes forever! Just read HH again and you see good go to bad.

What is so great about 40k is that it connects with the real-life human condition. We are all screwed-up, flawed human beings who all do evil (to some degree), yet we have moments of goodness and hopes for what is right! 40K certainly has characters who capture this dynamic. A flawed mess of raw talent rises out of the ashes and does great things. Further, addressing the Imperium as a whole, people I know that live in the middle east say things like, "I love your people (Americans), but I hate your government." The body/institution may be corrupt, to a large degree, but not all of the individual members of that body are corrupt. For example, Death Gaurd (Chaos traitors) had an examplar in stalwart goodness, Nathaniel Garro. Garviel Loken, Saul Tarvitz, blah blah. These guys were certainly good (although they were atheistic murders at times!). Chaos is exclusively BAD! Imperium is not exclusively bad! Dark Eldar, exclusively bad! Eldar, are not exclusively bad (they have done bad things, but it isn't their identity). Are humans in real life bad? Yes! Are all of them bad all the time? No.

Now, from a personal indulgence.... I like 40k because I see how messed-up and dark the world is and how despairing the future is for mankind. I really fell in love with it (early in my readings) when I knew this fact of despairing future for humanity and then heard things like: Magnus mentioning the known wearabouts of Leman Russ. Or that El'Johnson is just sleeping and will return, etc. What could be more of an epic than a glorious return in the face of hopelesness?!? But, GW will probably never act on such hopes and 40k will continue to be the struggle against the all-encompassing evil that is everywhere and in everyone - because that is what 40k is. Although I would certainly not be opposed to such "good" things happening!!!! Point being - humanity is bad in 40k...yet there is a VERY SMALL SLIVER of hope - oh so small. My 10 cents.

10 cents well spent by the look of it.

I'd like to see GW work on that small sliver of hope, let it stand out. The problem is that the Imperium has no real objective and no real way out that is alluded to other than in older, probably outdated sources. All we know is that humanity is either going to be gobbled, harvested and/or murdered. Slapping skulls all over the place, throw big numbers around and adding unbelievable races (especially mankind) doesn't make it grim dark because there is very little real reasoning behind what goes on. What it makes is a pretty boring story where there is truly no hope for humanity.

If GW wants grim dark then IMHO they have to make mankind more realistic and believable, compared to some fiction 40k can be pretty tame in that department. All you think when you look at the Imperium is how unbelievably incompetent and stupid it is as an entity, and by extension how silly the rest of the races look because in ten thousand years they still haven't destroyed humanity yet. Humanities plight would be far more grim dark if the Imperium was actually believable.

My 2 pence.

Holy gak..i will read through all this when im at home (got to page 2 1/2 or so xD).
Only thing i wanted to mention is, that according to the GK Shorstory in "Victories of the Space Marines", every single bolterbullet they fire was baptised in the blood of a loyal, good, believing servant of the emperor (by, ofc, shooting them). And the dude in the shortstory didn't exactly sign up for this ^^
Because, according to the priest (or whatever that was) who kills him, the sacrifice of heretics is worth nothing. So they sacrifice "good guys".
Just wanted to add this to the "torture and other stuff that only happens to bad guys and mutants"-discussion.
Maybe someoen else wrote that on the other 4 pages. Then im deeply sorry

Ultrafool wrote:Man you guys are all wrong, Chaos and the Imperium are both terrible. Be a Ork and do whatever the zog you want to do.

I don't know, the Tau have a great retirement plan, and good dental too.

Dark Eldar. Kinky torture sex.

The Imperium is best, because to think otherwise is heresy.

Thought begets Heresy. Heresy begets Retribution.

mattyrm wrote:

deathholydeath wrote:Well, in the end, my vote is for chaos.
Why you ask?
1. I don't believe in good and evil as absolute concepts.
2. I find chaos more aesthetically pleasing and that makes it "better" than the Imperium.

Ok, but what about the concept of "innocence"?

A 6 month old child is innocent, they cannot be blamed for anything.

Salamanders and Ultramarines would try to save a child from a hive that was about to be bombed.

Slaanesh worshippers would happily rape babies and Khorne worshippers would cut them into pieces. Send a Khorne beserker and he would gleefully butcher everything living in there. How then can you possibly even attempt to square this circle?

Considering Chaos is the manifestation of all of mortals worst habits, its ludicrous to suggest that Chaos is more "good" than the IOM.

Space Nazi's they may be, but they there are some noble and selfless individuals amongst it that are willing to put themselves in harms way to assist innocent civilians that they believe to be "servants of the emperor", even if they are misguided and the emperor is nothing, their actions are still noble regardless.

The same cannot be said for Chaos, or any mortal that will harm others for their own pleasure. And that's the thing, the IOM carry out eterminatus when they rightly or wrongly feel they must, but slaanesh worshippers kill because they ENJOY it.

Frankly, I think the entire thread is ridiculous, and the only people that I can envisage saying that chaos are somehow the "good" guys are those weird fat goth's that like people to think that they are vampires or something.

You know, the moody fethers that never smile and think they are hip and chic and "unique" when they are merely fat boring and unoriginal.

Well, I did state that I don't believe in absolutes of good or evil, so this line of rhetoric is somewhat superfluous. However, for and giggles:
I could argue that infants are not innocent (by your definition) as they cause their mothers pain during birth, but I'm not really gonna go there. Anyway, one of the mottoes of the IOM is that "Innocence proves nothing." so this doesn't really hold water.
I could also argue that chaos is "better" because it has the potential for unrestricted freedom, whereas the IOM represents fascistic repression. Modern western values typically hold freedom and individualism as high values.
I'd also like to point out that not all of the Traitor Legions are culted-- only four are sworn to a god. I'd also like to point out that we could ascribe noble intention to Magnus the Red; he joined with Tzeentch to save his children from an emperor who tried to kill him. Aside from this, both the traitor legions and the IOM use slave labor, wage wars, and burn and murder planets when it suits their purposes. A dead baby is a dead baby is a dead baby regardless of the reasons behind its death.
Furthermore, were I to argue from an empiricist atheistic perspective, there exists no inherent value in life whatsoever; an infant has as much intrinsic value as a rock. Actually, from this view nothing has intrinsic value as all phenomena are temporary and therefore meaningless.
Anyway. I'm not trying to square the circle. Chaos is evil (at least from the relative morality of most human beings). I've never claimed that they are "good" but I've also never claimed that the IOM is "good". They're just two different sorts of evil. The IOM does bad things for "good" reasons (well, most of the time anyway) Chaos does bad things for a variety of reasons, but usually just because they want to. You've got to appreciate that kind of honesty. Do you blame a snake for biting you? It's just what snakes do.
For myself, I stand by my previous statement-- I like chaos better because I find them more aesthetically pleasing. I just like them better.
And goths? Vampires? Really? It doesn't get much more goth than the grimdark empire of man and BA are essentially just vampires in red power armor. Mephiston even has a beguiling gaze to prove it.
I mean, if I was a moody goth kid, I'd probably play Dark Angels. Because, dude, they like have Dark in their name and stuff

I have found much to facepalm in this thread. Both from Imperium fans and non-Imperium fans.

Here is my opinion:

1] There are no good guys in 40k. There are just the lesser evils, the true evils, the neutrals and the dicks.

The lesser evils in no particular order are The Imperium, Eldar and Tau.

The true evils in order of evilness are:

a] Dark Eldar
b] Chaos
c] Necrons

The Neutrals are Orks and Nids and the dicks are everyone else.

2] Will you guys stop blaming the Imperium for the actions of the nobility of the Imperium. Do any of you realize that the nobility regularly flaunt Imperial law to do whatever they want? The nobility are the rulers of the individual planets cause the Imperium is decentralized. If a noble is a kind and wise ruler, good for the planet but if the ruler is bad well bad luck for the planet but this not Imperium's fault as it doesn't give a gak how a planet is ruled.

3] Mutants and abhumans. You guys think that these two are the same thing which is false. Abhumans are the evolutions or devolutions depending on ones point of view of the human race. But mutants are the result of chemical, nuclear, biological or warp effects. These mutants are not like mutants from x-men but truly horrific creatures like instead of having arms they have tentacles, have eight eyes, are built like the Hulk, are cannibals, have functional immortality but must kill people to sustain it etc. Even modern earth would have problems with these people.

4] Aliens in 40k are of the dicks or apathetic variety which is 80 or 90 % are dicks while 10 or 20 % are apathetic or innocent take your pick. Aliens hate and fear the Imperium for various reasons like the Imperium taking iover territory they wanted or trying to xenocide all of them or some of them are dicks and are afraid that when the Imperium catches them; comes the xenocide. Essentially its like this aliens are hate or use humanity either cause they're dicks or cause the Imperium is xenophobic and tries to kill them while Imperium tries to kill them all cause they believe that they're dicks. See the self fulfilling prophecy here?

Now lets talk Eldar. Eldar don't hate the Imperium. They simply consider humanity to be animals and little more than vermin and resent the fact that humanity is claiming what the Eldar see as their birthright which is the ownership of the 40k galaxy. The Eldar are just as xenophobic as the Imperium, they simply channel it in different ways like holding everyone in disdain. Hell in the Koronus expanse, from the 40k rpg, a race called the Stryxis hate the Eldar and if they meet Eldar near them, they will try and exterminate the Eldar. Why you ask? I don't know.

5] The Imperium's having all the non-SM participants of the First war of armageddon killed is something I really can't argue against unfortunately. The daemon invasion of armageddon was unique in that the planet was overrun by daemons lead by a daemon primarch and 12 or was it 13 bloodthirsters. For the sake of the creator, there are Imperium ships that have turned to chaos cause there was something weird about them. Having all these normal humans witness that insanity, its not unheard of for many of them to fall to chaos later.

6] The Imperium is a mix of justified and non-justified atrocities.



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Addendum: All this talk of the Interex being better for humanity is rubbish. The Interex are naive with their attitude of lets be friends when we have the Cabal running around plotting to kill us all. And worst is that fact that they claim that they fight Chaos which means they must know about Chaos corruption and magic etc. But what do they do when they have a Chaos blade? They put it in a bloddy museum for all to see and steal which is what happens.

But then again we have Matt Ward and his trash fluff with the GK's so it balances itself out.

Corporal_Reznov wrote:
1] There are no good guys in 40k. There are just the lesser evils, the true evils, the neutrals and the dicks.

THANK YOU KIND SIR.
In 40k there is evil and necessary evil. There can't be good guys in a grim-dark universe.

Brother Coa wrote:

Corporal_Reznov wrote:
1] There are no good guys in 40k. There are just the lesser evils, the true evils, the neutrals and the dicks.

THANK YOU KIND SIR.
In 40k there is evil and necessary evil. There can't be good guys in a grim-dark universe.

Nope, there's evil and eviler. I'd disagree with necessary evil.

Corporal_Reznov wrote:2] Will you guys stop blaming the Imperium for the actions of the nobility of the Imperium. Do any of you realize that the nobility regularly flaunt Imperial law to do whatever they want? The nobility are the rulers of the individual planets cause the Imperium is decentralized. If a noble is a kind and wise ruler, good for the planet but if the ruler is bad well bad luck for the planet but this not Imperium's fault as it doesn't give a gak how a planet is ruled.

No.

Planets have to pay tithes, so the Imperium already gets some benefit from them. It is the Imperium's fault if they neglect to replace a bad ruler.

LoneLictor wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:

Corporal_Reznov wrote:
1] There are no good guys in 40k. There are just the lesser evils, the true evils, the neutrals and the dicks.

THANK YOU KIND SIR.
In 40k there is evil and necessary evil. There can't be good guys in a grim-dark universe.

Nope, there's evil and eviler. I'd disagree with necessary evil.

Disagree all you want. It doesn't mean your opinion matters nor is your opinion fact.

Molten Butter wrote:

Corporal_Reznov wrote:2] Will you guys stop blaming the Imperium for the actions of the nobility of the Imperium. Do any of you realize that the nobility regularly flaunt Imperial law to do whatever they want? The nobility are the rulers of the individual planets cause the Imperium is decentralized. If a noble is a kind and wise ruler, good for the planet but if the ruler is bad well bad luck for the planet but this not Imperium's fault as it doesn't give a gak how a planet is ruled.

No.

Planets have to pay tithes, so the Imperium already gets some benefit from them. It is the Imperium's fault if they neglect to replace a bad ruler.

You truly have no understanding of politics or the meaning of autonomy do you nor do you have an understanding of 40k fluff. The Imperium gives each planet autonomy to do whatever they want as long as tithes(taxes) are paid and Imperial law is obeyed, the Imperium won't care how the planet is ruled. If the local ruler is replaced via a revolution but the planet doesn't seceded from the Imperium, the Imperium doesn't mind. There have been examples in real life where people will fight you even if you try and help them by replacing their ruler with someone better, they don't care, you are an outsider who changes things they believe they should change themselves.

Corporal_Reznov wrote:

LoneLictor wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:

Corporal_Reznov wrote:
1] There are no good guys in 40k. There are just the lesser evils, the true evils, the neutrals and the dicks.

THANK YOU KIND SIR.
In 40k there is evil and necessary evil. There can't be good guys in a grim-dark universe.

Nope, there's evil and eviler. I'd disagree with necessary evil.

Disagree all you want. It doesn't mean your opinion matters nor is your opinion fact.

Molten Butter wrote:

Corporal_Reznov wrote:2] Will you guys stop blaming the Imperium for the actions of the nobility of the Imperium. Do any of you realize that the nobility regularly flaunt Imperial law to do whatever they want? The nobility are the rulers of the individual planets cause the Imperium is decentralized. If a noble is a kind and wise ruler, good for the planet but if the ruler is bad well bad luck for the planet but this not Imperium's fault as it doesn't give a gak how a planet is ruled.

No.

Planets have to pay tithes, so the Imperium already gets some benefit from them. It is the Imperium's fault if they neglect to replace a bad ruler.

You truly have no understanding of politics or the meaning of autonomy do you nor do you have an understanding of 40k fluff. The Imperium gives each planet autonomy to do whatever they want as long as tithes(taxes) are paid and Imperial law is obeyed, the Imperium won't care how the planet is ruled. If the local ruler is replaced via a revolution but the planet doesn't seceded from the Imperium, the Imperium doesn't mind. There have been examples in real life where people will fight you even if you try and help them by replacing their ruler with someone better, they don't care, you are an outsider who changes things they believe they should change themselves.

Calm down, kid, and stop antagonizing. You truly have no understanding of Dakka Dakka rules, or Grammar, do you. Attacking people for having a different interpretation of fluff is a severe lack of integrity on your part. Leave this thread, cool down, and come back when you can handle differing opinions.

Nor do any of you have an understanding of scale. The Imperium doesn't watch the action of its citizens nor its individual leaders due to not having the technology to do it and its just to worth the resources to bother.

Humanity during the Dark age of technology wasn't hunky dory with aliens but neither were they killing all aliens. It was complicated web of trading with aliens, crushing alien empires beneath the might of the Iron men, having treaties with aliens that all collapsed during the Age of strife when the aliens took advantage of humanities weakness to attack. And no, the majority of humanity burned during the Age of Strife with few truly surviving like the Interex, Diasporex and the Technocracy.

Like there is a HH story of a human planet being discovered by the Imerium that had humans who were more machine than the Mechanicus ever managed, which is a feat in its own right. Anyway, the inhabitants of the planet kill the soldiers and then vivisect them to show the Imperium that they are not humans but aliens. This means that these group of humans despised aliens, now why would this be if aliens were simply misunderstood creatures?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

KilroyKiljoy wrote:

Corporal_Reznov wrote:

LoneLictor wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:

Corporal_Reznov wrote:
1] There are no good guys in 40k. There are just the lesser evils, the true evils, the neutrals and the dicks.

THANK YOU KIND SIR.
In 40k there is evil and necessary evil. There can't be good guys in a grim-dark universe.

Nope, there's evil and eviler. I'd disagree with necessary evil.

Disagree all you want. It doesn't mean your opinion matters nor is your opinion fact.

Molten Butter wrote:

Corporal_Reznov wrote:2] Will you guys stop blaming the Imperium for the actions of the nobility of the Imperium. Do any of you realize that the nobility regularly flaunt Imperial law to do whatever they want? The nobility are the rulers of the individual planets cause the Imperium is decentralized. If a noble is a kind and wise ruler, good for the planet but if the ruler is bad well bad luck for the planet but this not Imperium's fault as it doesn't give a gak how a planet is ruled.

No.

Planets have to pay tithes, so the Imperium already gets some benefit from them. It is the Imperium's fault if they neglect to replace a bad ruler.

You truly have no understanding of politics or the meaning of autonomy do you nor do you have an understanding of 40k fluff. The Imperium gives each planet autonomy to do whatever they want as long as tithes(taxes) are paid and Imperial law is obeyed, the Imperium won't care how the planet is ruled. If the local ruler is replaced via a revolution but the planet doesn't seceded from the Imperium, the Imperium doesn't mind. There have been examples in real life where people will fight you even if you try and help them by replacing their ruler with someone better, they don't care, you are an outsider who changes things they believe they should change themselves.

Calm down, kid, and stop antagonizing. You truly have no understanding of Dakka Dakka rules, or Grammar, do you. Attacking people for having a different interpretation of fluff is a severe lack of integrity on your part. Leave this thread, cool down, and come back when you can handle differing opinions.

I appologize for my bad grammar and everything else

That and it's extremely likely the views on Xenos would differ from planet to planet due to the fact that humanity was mostly divided at that point. Some would have to side with them out of necessity, others might have wanted to.

Oh another thing. OP, the Imperium doesn't go around exterminating worlds for being overpopulated. That is nothing but fanon just like the nonsense of the Imperium hating gay people.

Corporal_Reznov wrote:Anyway, the inhabitants of the planet kill the soldiers and then vivisect them to show the Imperium that they are not humans but aliens. This means that these group of humans despised aliens, now why would this be if aliens were simply misunderstood creatures?

How can you vivisect someone who is already dead?