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Sexuality, like everything else to our human existence, is a sliding scale with different factors affecting different people to different degrees. Some preferences are born, some are chosen and some are repressed.
If the gender aspect of sexuality is 'genetic' then what about other factors? body type? hair colour? age? outfits?
We were once so close to heaven, St. Peter came out and gave us medals; declaring us "The nicest of the damned".
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
Amphsix wrote:Well yeah obviously it depends on the people involved.
I was really just referring the the fact that men really seem to like lesbians a loooot, if you know what I mean :V
Just saying it counts the same for girls, just the other way around, with gay guys.
Delicious stereotypes...
I like guys who like me too haha! Though I am already taken so I recently had to turn this guy down.. I felt bad for him becasue he's really nice ):
Actually, from what I've heard, the reason men like F/F so much is because we don't see two girls making out with eachother, we just see two girls who are ready and willing to act sexually.
I've never feared Death or Dying. I've only feared never Trying.
halonachos wrote:We did't tolerate homosexuality for the most part and we saw it as unnatural and said that it was a choice for them to be homosexual so that they should change the way they are instead of being homosexual. The result was a lot of unhappy people who either led miserable lives or killed themselves.
So is the answer to keep the old mentality that natural/biological = good? No, it is not.
You don't get it do you Manchu? The old mentality is that homosexuality is a choice and that homosexuals could be changed, the new belief is that it is as genetic as being born straight.
Now the genders involved tend to be determined genetically while other things like hair color can change so much as the preferred gender doesn't. Typically the person in question chooses something familiar to them, if it seems like a girl wants you because you're with another girl its probably due to the fact that she sees you as a successful mate and wants to get with you in order to increase the human population. Jealousy stems from that basic biological impulse.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/10/29 04:21:53
... no. No it is not. You haven't actually done any research on the topic, have you? But never mind the actual research done on the topic. Let's talk a hypothetical.here.
Imagine if you would someone whom was raised in a normal, healthy "nuclear" family. Their father is a working dad, their mother a stay-at-home mom. They live in normal suburbs that haven't yet fallen to suburbian decay, and attend a decent, indeed above-average public school. Perhaps (as is the case in this day and age) both parents work, but they're very loving parents, and try to provide the best for their child. And really, all's going well... but then puberty hits.
They find that they simply are not attracted to the opposite gender that way, no matter how hard they try to be normal and fit in. Instead, their dirty thoughts and dreams and daydreams are about the same gender-- looking at the other gender doesn't get their loins all worked up. It's the same gender that does it for them. They try hard to reverse it but can't... because it wasn't a choice for them. It was biological.
Why do you find this scenario unbelievable? Even if you think it is though... even if you're in denial of it (so to speak)... it's what has really happened with quite a few homosexuals in their early life.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/10/29 04:26:02
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
No, halonachos, you don't get it and you're substituting political slogans for real understanding.
The old belief was that homosexuals were unnatural. One way of explaining that was "choice" but it wasn't the only way. Some people thought of it as a sickness or deformity. You know, some people are born with only one limb, for example. They're not going to get better nor did they choose to be born with one limb. And, in the old days, these people were shut away because they were "unnatural" and thus embarrassing or bad. Some people didn't think gay people actively wanted to be gay. In fact, their experience of gay people and gay people's own experience confirmed that was not the case. Gay people faced with those attitudes desperately wanted to not be gay and of course they told people this. But, according to that mentality, it was still abnormal and so bad.
Now, we're keeping that stupid attitude with the "born this way" slogan. Now we're saying that because people are born this way then it must be natural -- "what God intended" or whatever. The real answer is to say, look, it's not a bad thing. There actually is no harm. Whether this is genetic or not doesn't matter at all -- what matters is that this is simply not harmful.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Melissia wrote:You haven't actually done any research on the topic, have you?
Melissia, the research you're implying that you've done has only led you to believe a political slogan. I'm not impressed with it or your presumption that my disagreement means that I am ignorant.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2011/10/29 04:27:23
Manchu wrote:I'm not impressed with it or your presumption that my disagreement means that I am ignorant.
No, I believe you are ignorant because you are ignorant, not because you disagree with me.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Cheesecat wrote:I don't see how that's any less silly than people who suggest sexuality is something you choose or is influenced by social pressure, but whatever.
Well, because it's obvious that people's preferences are indeed influenced by social pressure. To use a trivial example, people buy certain brands of clothing because of what other people think of those brands. The way that people view reality is the result of this pressure -- I mean how many electrons have you ever personally seen and yet you believe they exist because a bunch of authoritative people insist that they do exist and everyone you respect thinks they're trustworthy. Why would sexual preference alone of all preferences be totally independent of these kinds of pressures? It's purely a political point. Gay people aren't bad if they aren't "born gay." Insisting that homosexuality is "biological" is just a silly response to people who insist that being gay is "unnatural" and therefore "bad."
I don't know man, I knew I liked girls from a very early age...no one really had to point me in that direction...and my cousin knew she like girls from a very early age ( like 7 or 8) and as this was in the South in the 70's...she clearly had no one pointing her in that direction.
While I thought girls were icky prior to grade 3 after that I started getting school crushes, but it wasn't till about grade 10 that I started getting real intense sexual impulses around women (probably puberty
The most interesting thing I can respond to here, not to get too personal, but whenever I see someone vigorously defending their right to be a non-sexual being or just trying to downplay it, it seems like the exact same thing as people who go out of their way to brag about it. It comes off as a sort of self-righteousness whether intended or not. I think balance is healthy and ignoring any part of one's self is a little stunting.
Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:The most interesting thing I can respond to here, not to get too personal, but whenever I see someone vigorously defending their right to be a non-sexual being or just trying to downplay it, it seems like the exact same thing as people who go out of their way to brag about it. It comes off as a sort of self-righteousness whether intended or not. I think balance is healthy and ignoring any part of one's self is a little stunting.
Ladies, nothing but the finest ones
The lavishist ones, the ain’t hard to findest ones
From the boldest to the shy-ist ones
Which city got the livest ones
Detroit, san fran
Ladies, nothing but the finest ones
The lavishist ones, the ain’t hard to findest ones
From the boldest to the shy-ist ones
Which city got the livest ones
Chi-town, boston
Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:I think balance is healthy and ignoring any part of one's self is a little stunting.
I agree. I've seen people do this in all sorts of ways but especially putting off any exploration of their sexuality for the sake of "what's important." It's not just hurtful to the person themselves but then, when they do get around to addressing this part of their life, they already assume it's kind of trivial and their choices with regard to others reflects this.
DukeBadham wrote:I have but one thing to say:
"If its cute, legal and human, bang it."
EDIT: since I don't know why I am being called a sick man, lets play this safe.
Melissia wrote:I believe you are ignorant because you are ignorant
And yet you have failed to demonstrate that by actually addressing my points.
*looks up at my post above*
No, Manchu, I most assuredly have addressed your point. Perhaps you should go read the hypothetical I put forth for you. You can associate a political slant all you want, but really, that casual dismissal just smacks of either disrespect (IE looking down on them saying "you only believe that because you're deluded by politics", and really, if this is the case then shame on you, you're a mod, you should act better than that) or paranoia (in which case I pity you because that's really a sad state of mind to be in), and certainly it doesn't strike me as the mindset of one interested in honest discourse.
Human sexuality is a complex thing, Manchu, and no geneticist will go on record saying there's a "gay gene". Just like they won't go on record saying there's a "black gene" and no "asian gene". Like any complex biological function, there are many, many genes which control sexuality, and it is influenced by hormonal levels throughout life even as early as the early weeks of pregnancy (often beyond the mother's control, even if they eat right and follow doctor's orders in ensuring they provide all they can for the foetus in their body). For some people it undoubtedly is a choice, and bully for them. But not for everyone.
Because there IS a genetic factor to it. That is rather beyond dispute; if there was no genetic factor behind sexuality there would be no human race to begin with. We'd have died off when our ancestors didn't mate.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/10/29 04:50:44
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
halonachos wrote:Most of the girls in my school are there because their daddy has enough money to pay for them to join a sorority and get wasted.
According to college prowler, only 3% of women enrolled at Old Dominion are members of a Greek organization.
No offense, but I heard this argument from people all the time when I was in undergrad, and still hear it now that I'm in graduate school. Whenever you say "Most X just do Y, and Y is bad." you're probably better off looking at the way you're presenting yourself such that you only find yourself around X doing Y, rather than bemoaning the fact that you believe most X do Y.
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
No, Melissia, you most certainly did not address my point. My point has nothing to do with genetics causing homosexuality at all. My point is that it does not matter whether it does or not insofar as homosexuality being morally right or wrong is concerned. The slogan "born this way" is a continuation of outmoded thinking. It's reshuffling the same deck of cards.
Melissia wrote:For some people it undoubtedly is a choice, and bully for them. But not for everyone.
Because there IS a genetic factor to it. That is rather beyond dispute; if there was no genetic factor behind sexuality there would be no human race to begin with. We'd have died off when our ancestors didn't mate.
Well, there may be a genetic component to sexuality in general, but that doesn't mean the relevant genes determine how that sexuality is directed, not totally anyway.
As you say, it is very likely that the specifics of attraction are determined, at least in part, by the environmental conditions in which a person is placed. Though, to be clear, that doesn't imply that sexuality is built around choice, it isn't, though like anything that results from conditioning (environmental or otherwise) it is likely that choice could influence it given enough dedication to doing so.
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
Manchu wrote:My point has nothing to do with genetics causing homosexuality at all.
Perhaps it was not your intent, but what actually came through in your posts does not reflect your stated intent.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/10/29 04:59:42
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Manchu wrote:No, Melissia, you most certainly did not address my point. My point has nothing to do with genetics causing homosexuality at all. My point is that it does not matter whether it does or not insofar as homosexuality being morally right or wrong is concerned. The slogan "born this way" is a continuation of outmoded thinking. It's reshuffling the same deck of cards.
Its also predicated on a very weak understanding of genetics, and the role the environment plays in shaping a person.
I like the song though.
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
Huh...I looked at the title of this thread and expected it to be locked by now...fething miracles...
I'm straight male...in the...forgive me I'm trying to find a categorization that wont be taken the wrong way...(hurr hurr... )
Traditional sense? I guess...
Homosexuality...not a fan...if you wanted me to be really honest it just seems unnatural to me...but I wont judge you for being so, I wont walk up to you and say its wrong, if that's who you are then more power to you...I know plenty of friends who roll that way and I don't have a problem with them as long as they respect me as well...
So pretty much what others have said...don't have a problem with it but keep it off my lawn please...
WARORK93 wrote:Homosexuality...not a fan...if you wanted me to be really honest it just seems unnatural to me...
Better remember that next time you get in a plane or wear clothes then, unless you know what natural behaviour actually is.
Prestor Jon wrote: Because children don't have any legal rights until they're adults. A minor is the responsiblity of the parent and has no legal rights except through his/her legal guardian or parent.
WARORK93 wrote:Huh...I looked at the title of this thread and expected it to be locked by now...fething miracles...
QFT.
I'm a straight male too. One of my good friends is Bi (she's a girl), and I'm ok with the homosexuality stuff, especially for women.
But I can't stand gay guys, though maybe that's just because I'm also a guy and it repulses me.
As for the unnatural thing, I think there's a difference between what we've built as being unnatural and what we are or do.
Craftworld Eleuven 4500
LoneLictor on thread about an ork choking the Emperor:
LoneLictor wrote: I like to imagine the Emperor kills so many Orks that he ends up half buried beneath a pile of corpses, with only his head sticking out. A lone grot stumbles across him, and starts choking him.
Then Horus comes across the lone grot, somehow managing to kill the Emperor, and punts it into space.
Lord Rogukiel wrote:I'm a straight male too. One of my good friends is Bi (she's a girl), and I'm ok with the homosexuality stuff, especially for women.
But I can't stand gay guys
Yeah, a lot of guys are hypocrites like that...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/10/29 12:56:02
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Lord Rogukiel wrote:
But I can't stand gay guys, though maybe that's just because I'm also a guy and it repulses me.
Sorry, but that rediculous. I'm a straight girl and I can "stand" lesbian woman.
Why not just let people be? It doesn't affect you in any way. It's not like most gay people are so insensitive they would blindly hit on a straight guy, they would know that would feel uncomfortable for the other party. Even if it happens, a simple no is usually sufficient.
Saying it "repulses" you is the main reason why gays are still not accepted.
Can't hold double standards either. you can't be ok with gay women and not with gay men. Just sayin'
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/10/29 13:36:01
But amphsix, all straight men and women can't help but jump on every member the opposite sex they see right? so SURELY gay guys want to bone every guy that goes near them?
)
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