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Also killed thousands to hundreds of thousands of psykers on Terra, making the seat of the Emperor blind for a couple days.

This is pointless. In the end you're just fulfilling Warmaster Horus' fears - the Imperium has degraded into a crumbling empire governed by weaklings and cowards with no regard for those who bleed and die to make and protect that empire, and have no real claim to power. The Imperium is dead. The Emperor is dead. I don't recall swearing loyalty to a corpse on a throne or to a rotting carcass of an empire. My loyalty is to the Emperor and the Imperium of Man. With them dead, my default loyalty is to the Primarch, Magnus the Red, Crimson King of Prospero.

I'm sorry, did I step into the Roleplay forum?

Horus created a self-fulfilling prophecy by listening to chaos.

The Emperor is very much alive and keeping the warp in check.

And you are weird if you're going to respond to all fluff arguments in character. Try taking it to the RP forum.

Eidolon wrote:Sorry, maybe I should have thought that out more. What I mean is that marines are the genetic cream of the crop, you dont become a marine just by being strong, or smart, you have to be exceptionally intelligent, fit, and hard headed. Combine that with the genetic conditioning, decades to centuries of battle, and extremely disciplined life style, and you have beings who are capable of being extremely potent mentally. Far more so than the sisters, who are still basic people genetically and just get along with discipline and badassness. I guess I should say that marines have superior intellectual abilities to regular people, and are far more disciplined. But can still fall, so theres no reason to believe sisters cannot.

Personally, I don't buy the "exceptionally intelligent" bit - not with the Marines recruiting from barbarian stock. Genetic enhancement may serve to bring them up to par with human standards, but if they were so superior I see absolutely no evidence of this in the fluff, perhaps with the sole exception of the Primarchs. Human commanders are capable of the same or better strategic brilliance, and I certainly don't know of any Marine having invented something impressive - although I admit they likely lack the time to prove their supposed intelligence this way. This, too, is an important aspect: The Emperor didn't want His Marines being geniuses, anyways, He wanted them to be capable warriors, so He focused on that. And whilst dragging real life science into a topic like this is a bit dumb, I would add that the age of ~10 seems somewhat late to start improving the development of a child recruit's brain.

No, what I see instead is rampant geneseed mutation that in some cases results in entire companies of Astartes reverting to the status of feral animals (see the Gaius Point massacre on Armageddon).

Lastly though, I'm not even convinced that intelligence has anything to do with resistance to Chaos. The Eldar have proven this. What makes people resistant to Chaos is altruism and faith, and none have as much unconditional faith as the Sisters of Battle.

Do I think that Sisters of Battle cannot be corrupted? No, personally I like Miriael's story. But in my interpretation, it's pretty damn difficult, simply because the Sisters commit their entire life to a higher ideal, and the Ruinous Powers have little to lure them with. Marines, on the other hand? "Hey, Brother X, want some more glory for your Chapter?" "Hey, Sergeant Y, these puny humans don't appreciate your true value", "Hey, Chapter Master Z, your Emperor hates you, you should hate him right back!"

I rarely make references to Black Library novels as I regard studio material in higher opinion, but Ben Counter's Daemonifuge deals with this particular subject, and even years ago as I had first read it, it made sense to me:

Daemonblood wrote:"What curiously small creatures you are to present such a thorn in my side." The words roared and rumbled through the air, thick with dark amusement. "What little bundles of ignorant flesh. I am Parmenides, called the Vile, chosen Prince of Nurgle. I am the virus which the Plague God sends to infect your mortal worlds. I am the festering in your wounded empire. Do creatures as insignificant as yourselves have names, too, I wonder?"
"Sergeant Castus of the Ultramarines, Second Company", the Marine replied in a defiant voice, as if he were trying to impress the daemon prince.
The horrific gaze turned to Aescarion, questioning.
"I would not give you my name, though it cost my soul", the Battle Sister snarled, and she gripped her axe tighter.
"Such a shame", Parmenides replied. "But the girl I can understand. Her mind is most infertile. What has she ever questioned? They teach her and she believes."

pretre wrote:I'm sorry, did I step into the Roleplay forum?

Horus created a self-fulfilling prophecy by listening to chaos.

The Emperor is very much alive and keeping the warp in check.

And you are weird if you're going to respond to all fluff arguments in character. Try taking it to the RP forum.

No, He's dead. Horus killed Him. He lived long enough to tell the survivors to carry on the fight against Mankind's enemies and to uphold the Imperial Truth, which they never did, and the Imperium ended up being governed by its own greatest enemies - bureaucrats with no real power. The Emperor is dead, and the Imperium is as good as dead with no future.

very well sir. I swear loyalty to Fulgrim, for being a baller primarch, the only way to settle this is with fisticuffs.

Tadashi wrote:No, He's dead. Horus killed Him. He lived long enough to tell the survivors to carry on the fight against Mankind's enemies and to uphold the Imperial Truth, which they never did, and the Imperium ended up being governed by its own greatest enemies - bureaucrats with no real power. The Emperor is dead, and the Imperium is as good as dead with no future.

Umm. No.

Page IX of the 6th Edition Rulebook (i.e. the first real page)

"Kept alive by unfathomable technology and supreme will, the Emperor's psychic powers protect mankind..."

pretre wrote:

Tadashi wrote:No, He's dead. Horus killed Him. He lived long enough to tell the survivors to carry on the fight against Mankind's enemies and to uphold the Imperial Truth, which they never did, and the Imperium ended up being governed by its own greatest enemies - bureaucrats with no real power. The Emperor is dead, and the Imperium is as good as dead with no future.

Umm. No.

Page IX of the 6th Edition Rulebook (i.e. the first real page)

"Kept alive by unfathomable technology and supreme will, the Emperor's psychic powers protect mankind..."

Thats just Matt Ward ruining the fluff. The emperor is really a nurgle demon prince because hes like gross....and stuff.

pretre wrote:

Tadashi wrote:No, He's dead. Horus killed Him. He lived long enough to tell the survivors to carry on the fight against Mankind's enemies and to uphold the Imperial Truth, which they never did, and the Imperium ended up being governed by its own greatest enemies - bureaucrats with no real power. The Emperor is dead, and the Imperium is as good as dead with no future.

Umm. No.

Page IX of the 6th Edition Rulebook (i.e. the first real page)

"Kept alive by unfathomable technology and supreme will, the Emperor's psychic powers protect mankind..."

Administratum and Inquisition propaganda...last I looked, the Imperium stood for truth and enlightenment, not superstition and oppression.

Tadashi wrote:

pretre wrote:

Tadashi wrote:No, He's dead. Horus killed Him. He lived long enough to tell the survivors to carry on the fight against Mankind's enemies and to uphold the Imperial Truth, which they never did, and the Imperium ended up being governed by its own greatest enemies - bureaucrats with no real power. The Emperor is dead, and the Imperium is as good as dead with no future.

Umm. No.

Page IX of the 6th Edition Rulebook (i.e. the first real page)

"Kept alive by unfathomable technology and supreme will, the Emperor's psychic powers protect mankind..."

Administratum and Inquisition propaganda...last I looked, the Imperium stood for truth and enlightenment, not superstition and oppression.

No, it is the rulebook. If you can't answer without trying to roleplay, I'm just going to hit the nice ignore button and leave it at that.

Tadashi wrote:I don't recall swearing loyalty to a corpse on a throne or to a rotting carcass of an empire. My loyalty is to the Emperor and the Imperium of Man. With them dead, my default loyalty is to the Primarch, Magnus the Red, Crimson King of Prospero.

Take the roleplay somewhere else, Tadashi. No more warnings.

Well, the intent is different, and the result is different?

Are you new to 40K?

Well one the results were the same "give blood get power" plain and simple

Intent does not matter the act you do dose.

Hitlers intent was to make Gremany perfect look what he did.

The Churches intent was to free Jerusalem look what they did

The US wanted better land for the people to grow and prosper look what they did the the natives.

Your intents may be good BUT its the acts you do for your intentions that defines you.

P.S. been playing 40k from 1998

Yay! We had been Draigo'd earlier in the thread, but does that count as getting Godwin'd as well?

pretre wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

pretre wrote:

Tadashi wrote:No, He's dead. Horus killed Him. He lived long enough to tell the survivors to carry on the fight against Mankind's enemies and to uphold the Imperial Truth, which they never did, and the Imperium ended up being governed by its own greatest enemies - bureaucrats with no real power. The Emperor is dead, and the Imperium is as good as dead with no future.

Umm. No.

Page IX of the 6th Edition Rulebook (i.e. the first real page)

"Kept alive by unfathomable technology and supreme will, the Emperor's psychic powers protect mankind..."

Administratum and Inquisition propaganda...last I looked, the Imperium stood for truth and enlightenment, not superstition and oppression.

No, it is the rulebook. If you can't answer without trying to roleplay, I'm just going to hit the nice ignore button and leave it at that.

As you wish, no more roleplay. As I recall, the Chaos Codex mentions the Emperor being dead, and that His soul had already left the material realm.

EDIT: "...his great intellect and psychic might had passed on from the material realm."
- Codex: Chaos Space Marines 4th Edition, p.15

He's dead.

This has to happen to every sisters thread doesn't it?

It's always either this or misogyny.

n0t_u wrote:This has to happen to every sisters thread doesn't it?

It's always either this or misogyny.

What about roleplaying misogyny?

Tadashi wrote:As you wish, no more roleplay. As I recall, the Chaos Codex mentions the Emperor being dead, and that His soul had already left the material realm.

I mean, come on. Page four of the Chaos Codex has their primary battle cry 'Death to the false emperor!'

Why would they wish death on a dead guy?

I didn't see anything about the Emperor being dead when I just looked.

Citation needed. Give us a page number.

Eidolon wrote:

n0t_u wrote:This has to happen to every sisters thread doesn't it?

It's always either this or misogyny.

What about roleplaying misogyny?

I may be a roleplayer, but I AM NOT A MISOGYNIST.

pretre wrote:

Tadashi wrote:As you wish, no more roleplay. As I recall, the Chaos Codex mentions the Emperor being dead, and that His soul had already left the material realm.

I mean, come on. Page four of the Chaos Codex has their primary battle cry 'Death to the false emperor!'

Why would they wish death on a dead guy?

I didn't see anything about the Emperor being dead when I just looked.

Citation needed. Give us a page number.

Read the edit, if you please.

Tadashi wrote:

Eidolon wrote:

n0t_u wrote:This has to happen to every sisters thread doesn't it?

It's always either this or misogyny.

What about roleplaying misogyny?

I may be a roleplayer, but I AM NOT A MISOGYNIST.

I roleplay misogyny all the time. Its in a game called...life. badumtish

Tadashi wrote:EDIT: "...his great intellect and psychic might had passed on from the material realm."
- Codex: Chaos Space Marines 4th Edition, p.15

He's dead.

Way to quote only the part that supports your argument.

That paragraph explicitly says that he is still alive but that his intellect and psychic might are not in the material realm.

Eidolon wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

Eidolon wrote:

n0t_u wrote:This has to happen to every sisters thread doesn't it?

It's always either this or misogyny.

What about roleplaying misogyny?

I may be a roleplayer, but I AM NOT A MISOGYNIST.

I roleplay misogyny all the time. Its in a game called...life. badumtish

So, you look dislike/mistrust/hate women or girls?

Page 17, Chaos refers to the memories of the Emperor in the present tense.

pretre wrote:

Tadashi wrote:EDIT: "...his great intellect and psychic might had passed on from the material realm."
- Codex: Chaos Space Marines 4th Edition, p.15

He's dead.

Way to quote only the part that supports your argument.

That paragraph explicitly says that he is still alive but that his intellect and psychic might are not in the material realm.

I doubt they ever really were. I mean, someone that psychic is going to have a permanent warp presence, as do demons and did magnus, who werent nearly as powerful.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tadashi wrote:

So, you look dislike/mistrust/hate women or girls?

It was uh, it was just a joke. I love or hate women depending on who they are.

pretre wrote:

Tadashi wrote:EDIT: "...his great intellect and psychic might had passed on from the material realm."
- Codex: Chaos Space Marines 4th Edition, p.15

He's dead.

Way to quote only the part that supports your argument.

That paragraph explicitly says that he is still alive but that his intellect and psychic might are not in the material realm.

Passed on equals death. 'False-Emperor' is because the Emperor is just a mindless corpse. Its operating on pure instinct, focusing the Astronomican, soul-binding Astropaths through the mechanisms of the Golden Throne that is fed by thousands of sacrificial psykers. The man whose vision once drove a great empire is no more.

Not according to more numerous and recent sources than the Chaos Codex. Sorry, but the references indicate he is still alive, body shattered and very much in control of the fight against the warp.

Tadashi wrote:Passed on equals death. 'False-Emperor' is because the Emperor is just a mindless corpse. Its operating on pure instinct, focusing the Astronomican, soul-binding Astropaths through the mechanisms of the Golden Throne that is fed by thousands of sacrificial psykers. The man whose vision once drove a great empire is no more.

Isn't that still more like a sort of "half-death", still?

Perhaps you could say braindead, though that is not entirely accurate either given that his brain still seems to work on some level as it focuses the Astronomicon. His body is more like a shell, but there is still a connection of sorts, and he is still strapped to the machines keeping him sorta alive, at least as far as the body goes.

The Emperor dying for real is the premier fear of the end of the 41st millennium, as far as the 6E rulebook is concerned, as both his presence as well as the Golden Throne seem to become weaker.

No one knows that one way or the other. CSM certainly believe it (otherwise the HH was a really big disappointment for them) but that doesn't make it a fact.

Lynata wrote:

Tadashi wrote:Passed on equals death. 'False-Emperor' is because the Emperor is just a mindless corpse. Its operating on pure instinct, focusing the Astronomican, soul-binding Astropaths through the mechanisms of the Golden Throne that is fed by thousands of sacrificial psykers. The man whose vision once drove a great empire is no more.

Isn't that still more like a sort of "half-death", still?

Perhaps you could say braindead, though that is not entirely accurate either given that his brain still seems to work on some level as it focuses the Astronomicon. His body is more like a shell, but there is still a connection of sorts, and he is still strapped to the machines keeping him sorta alive, at least as far as the body goes.

The Emperor dying for real is the premier fear of the end of the 41st millennium, as far as the 6E rulebook is concerned, as both his presence as well as the Golden Throne seem to become weaker.

Won't that make him 'clinically dead' in the real world?

Using clinically dead to refer to someone with known psychic powers kinda defeats the purpose of using real world terms.

Tadashi wrote:

Lynata wrote:

Tadashi wrote:Passed on equals death. 'False-Emperor' is because the Emperor is just a mindless corpse. Its operating on pure instinct, focusing the Astronomican, soul-binding Astropaths through the mechanisms of the Golden Throne that is fed by thousands of sacrificial psykers. The man whose vision once drove a great empire is no more.

Isn't that still more like a sort of "half-death", still?

Perhaps you could say braindead, though that is not entirely accurate either given that his brain still seems to work on some level as it focuses the Astronomicon. His body is more like a shell, but there is still a connection of sorts, and he is still strapped to the machines keeping him sorta alive, at least as far as the body goes.

The Emperor dying for real is the premier fear of the end of the 41st millennium, as far as the 6E rulebook is concerned, as both his presence as well as the Golden Throne seem to become weaker.

Won't that make him 'clinically dead' in the real world?

Real world arguments don't hold water when discussing 40K.