Argument for the use and help of xenos within the Imperium, Lawful or otherwise.

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**purplefood**

What's the point if there's hardly any left?

**Mynameisalie**

purplefood wrote:What's the point if there's hardly any left?

Lynx or Crystal?

**purplefood**

Mynameisalie wrote:
purplefood wrote:What's the point if there's hardly any left?

Lynx or Crystal?

Crystal.
We'll talk about population later...

**Mynameisalie**

purplefood wrote:
Mynameisalie wrote:
purplefood wrote:What's the point if there's hardly any left?

Lynx or Crystal?

Crystal.
We'll talk about population later...

No, let's not get back onto that...
Crystal. Ok. It grows. Veeeeery slowly. That explains why their home planet's poles have crystals that stretch past the planets exosphere. They chip away at it, sparingly, mind, and then use what they extract. They have 1 major crystal (no prizes as to where you think it is) but hundreds of other, smaller tiny crystals which they cultivate on other planets they inhabit.

**Corpsesarefun**

Mynameisalie wrote:
Considering there is very little left...
It's what they depend on. It's a very reliable and useful substance, and it's the basis for most Lynx tech. Cell splitters, for example. (Partly reversed engineered Necron tech).
And a correction; if the Magi of Mars (or whatever) figured out how to use that stuff in a Titan, which is incredibly hard to do, as the instability of large crystals tend to blow up whatever they're inserted into. If they managed to put it in a titan...
You can see where that would go.

Mynameisalie wrote:
Dude. that's bolter insta-kill. They're not that frail. One of them (unique character) took a pounding from a trygon, stood up, brushed it off and said:
go yourself. (This is not directed at you)
Then he killed it.

And we're back to "my race is the best and if only the other races could use it they'd rule the universe"... Besides if the crystal is so rare then why/how is it used for everything?

**blood reaper**

Mynameisalie wrote:
purplefood wrote:That's actually not such a bad idea... not entirely sure on the names for them and the whole warp points name but still a good mechanic.
I'd make them T2 to show how fragile they are.
T3 is human at physical prime.
T2 would really show how frail they are in comparison.

Dude. that's bolter insta-kill. They're not that frail. One of them (unique character) took a pounding from a trygon, stood up, brushed it off and said:
go yourself. (This is not directed at you)
Then he killed it.
T3 is really low enough. They're not snotling frail. They'll take more of a pounding than a human will, mostly due to their inv.saves : D
But really? T2? Isn't that toning them back a bit too far?
Oh, and I called the crystals that as animus means soul in latin. I think it's latin anyway. Matrix, cause it fits well as an ending and the fact Animatrix Crystals act as a "matrix" of psychic energy. If Lynx aren't fed this energy, they will simply burn up. Or just wither and die. They need them. Rules for a Lynx army state that they must take an Animatrix crystal. It's low cost, hard to kill, but has no attack capability. Plus, any Lynx that aren't within 72" of one have to take a Leadership test, losing a wound if they fail.
Sort of how I balanced them out. They depend on things to survive. Not just the menial things; food, water and sleep (u don't sleep for 2 weeks apparently you'll eventually die), they need pure psychic energy.

Seriously?

It be funny if it wasn't so bad.

**purplefood**

Mynameisalie wrote:
purplefood wrote:That's actually not such a bad idea... not entirely sure on the names for them and the whole warp points name but still a good mechanic.
I'd make them T2 to show how fragile they are.
T3 is human at physical prime.
T2 would really show how frail they are in comparison.

Dude. that's bolter insta-kill. They're not that frail. One of them (unique character) took a pounding from a trygon, stood up, brushed it off and said:
go yourself. (This is not directed at you)
Then he killed it.
T3 is really low enough. They're not snotling frail. They'll take more of a pounding than a human will, mostly due to their inv.saves : D
But really? T2? Isn't that toning them back a bit too far?
Oh, and I called the crystals that as animus means soul in latin. I think it's latin anyway. Matrix, cause it fits well as an ending and the fact Animatrix Crystals act as a "matrix" of psychic energy. If Lynx aren't fed this energy, they will simply burn up. Or just wither and die. They need them. Rules for a Lynx army state that they must take an Animatrix crystal. It's low cost, hard to kill, but has no attack capability. Plus, any Lynx that aren't within 72" of one have to take a Leadership test, losing a wound if they fail.
Sort of how I balanced them out. They depend on things to survive. Not just the menial things; food, water and sleep (u don't sleep for 2 weeks apparently you'll eventually die), they need pure psychic energy.

If you're gonna give them incredible psychic powers you have to balance them...
You said they are frail so make them actually frail...
If they can't take the same punishment as a human without invulnerable saves then they shouldn't have T3...
Incidentally managing to take a full pounding from a Trygon with no damage and then insta-gibbing it right away is really not good...
If they are frail they shouldn't be able to take a hit like that without some kind of trickery.
A trygon tears through tanks, bunkers, entire squads of terminators with relative ease both in the background and on the tabletop.
It's actually a pretty good unit, nice model as well...

**Mynameisalie**

Argh forget this I already said move on from the fluff people. It's been agreed. At least someone actually tried to suggest something for me to use. And did a very good job of it, may I add.
And the T2 thing? No. Seriously. Just no. That's an insta-kill with a heck of a lot of weapons that are available for easy point purchase (if it isn't standard equipment) in 40k. Bolters. Gauss weapons. Eldar shruiken rifles. Tau pulse rifles. See where this is going?!
T3 and S3 minimum. That is a representation of a creature able to take a decent amount of punishment, and will dish out some damage in close combat. Lynx can do both.. A bolter round to the knee isn't going to kill them. It might not even if it was to the face on the board. It's literally ridiculous.
Blood reaper. Invulnerable saves. Psykers. They're a pair. You have psykers, you have inv saves. EoD. I can recall very few psykers that don't have inv saves, if any.
The animatrix crystal. Have I not made this clear, several times over, that I have nerfed the Lynx like you asked. You didn't deem what type of nerf. So I nerfed. Don't complain. Next time be more specific.
Unique Character. Archangel Champion. He's the pinnacle of their race. They are a psyker-tech race. He combines those elements very well. He has a sword that was forged near the beginning of the Lynx race. It's ancient, powerful, and very, very costly.
Population. Who actually read this?

Psienesis wrote:Here's a suggestion for a more-plausible way to defend their world...

First, they aren't extra-galactic. They're born and evolved right here in the Milky Way.

Two, they aren't 1.5 billion years old. Even the Necrons aren't that old, and they are the oldest known mortal race in the galaxy, and they clock in at some sixty million years.

Three, their empire once spanned dozens of star-systems until, approximately five thousand years ago, a sudden warp-storm exploded around them, destroying most of their worlds, and leaving their final surviving habitable world cut off from the galaxy, save for an ancient Eldar Web-Way gate located on a barren ice-planet on the farthest rim of the system. Within the past few centuries, the Lynx have established cautious relations with the Eldar who have, at times, stepped out of that gate.

No other stable warp-routes exist to their world, cut off as it is by the warp-storm known as the Storm of the Emperor's Wrath. Ironically, this Warp-Storm, which has devastated their culture, actually prevented the fleets of Gogol Vandire from discovering them, which would have certainly lead to their utter annihilation during the Age of Apostasy.

The Lynx have, through slow-burning ships, managed to reach this distant world and, guided by their Eldar benefactors, been able to send small groups through the Web-Way, and have come out the other side on planets currently claimed by the Tau Empire in the far galactic south-east, and the far-distant Jericho Sector, in the distant galactic north-east, a wartorn region contested by the Tau, the Tyranid, the forces of the Archenemy, and the Imperium.

The Tau have sent emissaries to the world of the Lynx and have provided them with some intergalactic means of travel, by way of the "warp-skimmers" the Tau employ. Because they do not enter the Warp in the way of the Imperium, instead skimming just along the surface, the journey near the Storm of the Emperor's Wrath is risky, but not impossible.

In exchange for their service to the Tau'va, the Lynx have received a cadre of Air Caste pilots that can ferry them to the Septs of the Tau Empire, and Earth Caste builders, who have constructed many Tau enclaves on their world, including planetary defenses, should their world come under threat from void-born enemies, including Ork Freebootas, Dark Eldar raiders, and Imperial Exploratory fleets.

Through their contact with the Eldar of Craftworld Whatever-One-You-Like, and their Tau allies, they have made some contact with Rogue Traders of the Imperium, who are willing to trade fighter craft, Aquila landers, and other examples of small-scale Imperial tech in exchange for (insert biological or mineral resource found on the Lynx world here) as well as mercenary forces that supplement the Rogue Traders' own military assets.

This has been agreed on. It says here most of the race has been wiped out by Warp Storms. There are hardly any left. The post says it all. EoD. Move on.
I was very close to raging at this point. Don't suddenly start jumping in on things that have been decided and deemed stable.

**Mynameisalie**

purplefood wrote:
Mynameisalie wrote:
purplefood wrote:That's actually not such a bad idea... not entirely sure on the names for them and the whole warp points name but still a good mechanic.
I'd make them T2 to show how fragile they are.
T3 is human at physical prime.
T2 would really show how frail they are in comparison.

Dude. that's bolter insta-kill. They're not that frail. One of them (unique character) took a pounding from a trygon, stood up, brushed it off and said:
go yourself. (This is not directed at you)
Then he killed it.
T3 is really low enough. They're not snotling frail. They'll take more of a pounding than a human will, mostly due to their inv.saves : D
But really? T2? Isn't that toning them back a bit too far?
Oh, and I called the crystals that as animus means soul in latin. I think it's latin anyway. Matrix, cause it fits well as an ending and the fact Animatrix Crystals act as a "matrix" of psychic energy. If Lynx aren't fed this energy, they will simply burn up. Or just wither and die. They need them. Rules for a Lynx army state that they must take an Animatrix crystal. It's low cost, hard to kill, but has no attack capability. Plus, any Lynx that aren't within 72" of one have to take a Leadership test, losing a wound if they fail.
Sort of how I balanced them out. They depend on things to survive. Not just the menial things; food, water and sleep (u don't sleep for 2 weeks apparently you'll eventually die), they need pure psychic energy.

If you're gonna give them incredible psychic powers you have to balance them...
You said they are frail so make them actually frail...
If they can't take the same punishment as a human without invulnerable saves then they shouldn't have T3...
Incidentally managing to take a full pounding from a Trygon with no damage and then insta-gibbing it right away is really not good...
If they are frail they shouldn't be able to take a hit like that without some kind of trickery.
A trygon tears through tanks, bunkers, entire squads of terminators with relative ease both in the background and on the tabletop.
It's actually a pretty good unit, nice model as well...

Last line I agree to. I do 'nids. I have a trygon. They are very nice units. On the tabletop? Why do I get such bad luck when I play any sort of 40k battle?
Anyway, people. Move on.

**blood reaper**

No, we've tried to make stuff work, but so far, all I'm seeing are super Mary Sue Eldar Rip Offs.

The Anmintrix Crystal is almost an exact copy of the Eldar Wraith bone.

**Mynameisalie**

blood reaper wrote:No, we've tried to make stuff work, but so far, all I'm seeing are super Mary Sue Eldar Rip Offs.

The Anmintrix Crystal is almost an exact copy of the Eldar Wraith bone.

What. Part. Of. The. Sentence. Move on. Do. You. Not. Get?

**blood reaper**

But how can we when it hasn't been resolved?

How?

**Mynameisalie**

It has. Psienesis resolved it. Quickly and with minimal fuss. Unlike you. Are you deliberately trying to stoke up problems? It seems like you are. And that's the one thing I hate in a huge list of character descriptions I can use.
I'm sorry.
Just.
Move.
On.

**blood reaper**

Mynameisalie wrote:It has. Psienesis resolved it. Quickly and with minimal fuss. Unlike you. Are you deliberately trying to stoke up problems? It seems like you are. And that's the one thing I hate in a huge list of character descriptions I can use.
I'm sorry.
Just.
Move.
On.

Problems

Amnitrix-whatever crystals-Direct copy of Eldar Wraith Bone
Toughness 3, able to kill Trygons? Invulnerable saves and Psychic powers, FUUUUUU----

**Mynameisalie**

(headbang)
(headbang)
(headbang)
(headbang)
(headbang)
Toughness 3. Yes. All able to kill Trygons. Nonononononononononononono NO! Toughness 3 is a standard unit!
I am talking about a unique/special/oneofthereallygoodpeopleyoualwaystrytoputinyourarmy character. There is a difference. Eldar wratihbone. do Eldar draw life force from it? No. Do Eldar depend on it for survival? No.
Inv saves + psychic powers = I have never seen this not crop up in a race that has psykers. Ergo; legitimate.
End of Discussion.

**blood reaper**

Mynameisalie wrote:(headbang)
(headbang)
(headbang)
(headbang)
(headbang)
Toughness 3. Yes. All able to kill Trygons. Nonononononononononononono NO! Toughness 3 is a standard unit!
I am talking about a unique/special/oneofthereallygoodpeopleyoualwaystrytoputinyourarmy character. There is a difference. Eldar wratihbone. do Eldar draw life force from it? No. Do Eldar depend on it for survival? No.
Inv saves + psychic powers = I have never seen this not crop up in a race that has psykers.
End of Discussion.

(Headbang for the one thousandth, and several hundredths times later)

Toughness 2 would make them balanced, seriously, give them all invuns like daemons so they aren't instant killed by bolters.
Remove the Tyrgon bit, it's pure failure in a sense of writing.

**Mynameisalie**

Fine. I removes trygon bit.
They have armour and inv saves.
The backlash from a hell of a lot of their special rules balances them out. Their vehicles malfunction, Lynx blow themselves up if you roll a double six on a psychic test..
This isn't balanced?
W.T.F.

**blood reaper**

Yes it isn't, because at this stage, the main unit rules have only begun development, fluff hasn't fully been finished, and failure rate is over 9000.

Remove armour, if their frail, their frail, trust me I play daemons and if their highly psychic, just use low invuns.
Remove Amintrix-whatever crystal, it's just a pure rip-off of the Eldar.

**Mynameisalie**

My idea.
Not removing it.
Now I will be completely and utterly stubborn with you.

**blood reaper**

Mynameisalie wrote:My idea.
Not removing it.
Now I will be completely and utterly stubborn with you.

Like you've always been?

It's a pure rip-off, and shows the fact this project has no originality.

**Mynameisalie**

Ok, let's continue.
So, just to recap.
Balancing consists of a high points cost, backlashes on literally every unit in their army, low toughness (3 is quite low in my books), low strength. This is what I call balancing out.
The fluff? Ok, anyone besides Blood Reaper who wants to make any corrections to the fluff designed by psienesis may do so.

**blood reaper**

Mynameisalie wrote:Ok, let's continue.
So, just to recap.
Balancing consists of a high points cost, backlashes on literally every unit in their army, low toughness (3 is quite low in my books), low strength. This is what I call balancing out.
The fluff? Ok, anyone besides Blood Reaper who wants to make any corrections to the fluff designed by psienesis may do so.

Sounds fine except for the ridiculous Eldar Crystal rip offs, also, play test against races beside Grey knights who are in the top tier.

**purplefood**

This is a Dakka Fiction thread...
Therefore by Dakka rules talking about anything other than the fiction would technically be Off-topic...
Incidentally Librarians, Orks, Primaris psykers, Farseers (Not sure on this one), Chaos sorcerors, many grey knights, psyker battle squads, and probably a lot of other units are psykers and don't have a built in invulnerable save AFAIK...
Some have the option of getting one through various pieces of wargear or, in a rare case, a psychic power.
Incidentally T3 isn't fragile. I don't care what you say but it isn't...

**Mynameisalie**

blood reaper wrote:
Mynameisalie wrote:Ok, let's continue.
So, just to recap.
Balancing consists of a high points cost, backlashes on literally every unit in their army, low toughness (3 is quite low in my books), low strength. This is what I call balancing out.
The fluff? Ok, anyone besides Blood Reaper who wants to make any corrections to the fluff designed by psienesis may do so.

Sounds fine except for the ridiculous Eldar Crystal rip offs, also, play test against races beside Grey knights who are in the top tier.

Lay off the crystals. If you mention the word crystal in any of your future posts on this, I will just ignore them.
I will. Already said I would test them.

**blood reaper**

purplefood wrote:This is a Dakka Fiction thread...
Therefore by Dakka rules talking about anything other than the fiction would technically be Off-topic...
Incidentally Librarians, Orks, Primaris psykers, Farseers (Not sure on this one), Chaos sorcerors, many grey knights, psyker battle squads, and probably a lot of other units are psykers and don't have a built in invulnerable save AFAIK...
Some have the option of getting one through various pieces of wargear or, in a rare case, a psychic power.
Incidentally T3 isn't fragile. I don't care what you say but it isn't...

Or have a 5+ one, which is quite weak.

T3 isn't fragile at all.

Anyways, the whole Crystal thing is ridiculous, it's just stolen.

**Mynameisalie**

Psychic test to activate inv save?
That way I could keep it higher.

**purplefood**

Give the lowest one T3 and a 4++ and need to activate it with a power.
The middle one T3 and a 3++ and also needs to activate it with a power.
The highest one gets T2 and a 2++ but doesn't need to activate it with a power.

**blood reaper**

Mynameisalie wrote:Psychic test to activate inv save?
That way I could keep it higher.

Sounds like a psyhcic power that could work, maybe;

Warp Boost (Name in development)-Warp Charge 1
If the test is successful, add 1 onto the models invulnerable save, up to a maximum of 2+

**Mynameisalie**

purplefood wrote:Give the lowest one T3 and a 4++ and need to activate it with a power.
The middle one T3 and a 3++ and also needs to activate it with a power.
The highest one gets T2 and a 2++ but doesn't need to activate it with a power.

There are only 4 odd units with a 2++ in the Lynx.
But ok!

**purplefood**

Mynameisalie wrote:
purplefood wrote:Give the lowest one T3 and a 4++ and need to activate it with a power.
The middle one T3 and a 3++ and also needs to activate it with a power.
The highest one gets T2 and a 2++ but doesn't need to activate it with a power.

Et warrior for highest. Bolter insta-kill is humiliating.
But yeah, sure!

Maybe give him the option to buy an upgrade, some kind of life support module or similar that gives him EW.
Price it appropriately maybe... 25 points? 30 tops... and only available to him.