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Doubling for height is meaningless. Usually passengers are not in two layers, you know. Or are you proposing that they sit on each other's shoulders?

The bulk was already counted in via base size.

And I'll assume that the whole rolling chapel fortress is able to account for the extra weight.

And, on the topic of transports, I sorta wonder how my Chaos Termies can fit into Land Raiders with those big trophy racks...

That's typically thorough and rigorous analysis on your part, Ovion. But I suspect GW is putting nowhere near as much thought into how large its various vehicles are relative to one another.


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 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
Doubling for height is meaningless....

Hmm. Especially when you're putting vehicles in the nave of a mobile cathedral, where there's going to be headroom for anything short of a Titan.

And, on the topic of transports, I sorta wonder how my Chaos Termies can fit into Land Raiders with those big trophy racks...

The racks fold down, then spring back up at the press of a button? That'd be awesomely ungrimdark.

"Hey, Killripper, your rack of skulls is still down."
"Oh, yeah, thanks, Murderblood!"
SPROINGGGGG

Or someone with better art skills than me needs to draw a Chaos dude trying to get into a Land Raider and catching his trophy rack on the top of the door while all his buddies and a Daemon Prince laugh hysterically.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and here's a rule of thumb for transporting vehicles & monstrous creatures:

Walkers & Monstrous Creatures: 5 spaces per Hull Point or Wound
Other vehicles: 10 spaces per HP/Wound

But Walkers & MCs, being tall, don't fit in a lot of cargo bays that can accommodate regular, lower-riding vehicles.

Transporting Walkers and MCs is what the CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT is for. It can carry 30 IG soldiers or spend 5 slots each on carrying Cyclops Demolition vehicles, which are like small Rhinos (1.5 tons in-universe).

No, CHURCHTANK is for transporting CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT.

If you paint a CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT black, gold and red, it turns into CHURCHTANK.

Moreso, though, it is a pre-existing vehicle that offers rules for transporting large quantities of people and vehicles, so works as a template for a SOB version. Though it is noted (ie, retconned) that the CRASSUS is a vehicle fielded in huge numbers in the Macharian Crusade, and remains fielded in large quantities.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/c/Crassus.pdf

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:
Doubling for height is meaningless. Usually passengers are not in two layers, you know. Or are you proposing that they sit on each other's shoulders?

The bulk was already counted in via base size.

And I'll assume that the whole rolling chapel fortress is able to account for the extra weight.

And, on the topic of transports, I sorta wonder how my Chaos Termies can fit into Land Raiders with those big trophy racks...

By bulk and weight, I meant that each base has a dude on it, who doesn't take up 100% of the area above it, so when accounting for transport space, they can sit, or turn sideways, or whatever.

The doubling accounts for it being a solid block of mass, with no ability to 'squidge down'.

 SisterSydney wrote:
Oh, and here's a rule of thumb for transporting vehicles & monstrous creatures:

Walkers & Monstrous Creatures: 5 spaces per Hull Point or Wound
Other vehicles: 10 spaces per HP/Wound

But Walkers & MCs, being tall, don't fit in a lot of cargo bays that can accommodate regular, lower-riding vehicles.

My problem with this is, it means that:are all 30 spaces.
Even though you could easily fit 2 of those in some of the others.

And that lots of the 2HP vehicles, that you could fit 2-3 of into one of the 3HP Vehicles is only 10HP less.

And I think part of the issue is that both Armour Value and HP Value only have a slight bearing on the size of the thing, making it hard to have a simple rules-based rule to determine it.

Good point about vehicle sizes correlating very poorly with HP.

 Psienesis wrote:
If you paint a CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT black, gold and red, it turns into CHURCHTANK.

Moreso, though, it is a pre-existing vehicle that offers rules for transporting large quantities of people and vehicles, so works as a template for a SOB version. Though it is noted (ie, retconned) that the CRASSUS is a vehicle fielded in huge numbers in the Macharian Crusade, and remains fielded in large quantities.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/c/Crassus.pdf

Ooh, the Crassus rules are free online? Nice. Definitely should make a Sororitas version -- though I think you could just apply the 50-point "Sororitas Superheavy" upgrade and have done. For an infantry-focused elite like the Sisters, the Crassus is a much better for than the Gorgon.

But the Crassus is just way too small to be the basis for CHURCHTANK. That's why my design notes esentially start with "ok, imagine you have three Storm Lords and you bolt them together...."

 SisterSydney wrote:
Design notes: Some IG superheavies can replace their sponson lasguns -- worth about 40 points, if you go by the cost of Predator sponsons -- with targeters to gain +1 BS. In addition, Shield of Faith seems like it should be worth at least 40 points for such a massive vehicle: Destroyer weapons may ignore it, but the majority of things fired at a superheavy won't. So +80 points total.

Would just like to point this out: Escalation book has 1 pair of Sponsoons for 50Pts, Replace Lascanons with targeters for BS4 (Shadowsword) and Extra TL Heavy flamer/HBolter for 20Pts (do not have the book, might need to confirm). Hull-mounted TL HF or HB, so the sponsoons ones are slightly "better".

50 points - 20 points x 2 = 10 points for the two Lascannons / Targeters
So going by the cost of Shadowsword items in escalation, i'd price targeters at 10points (and very arguable if you have the book and show both those entries)

Now it does seem a bit cheap for 2 Lascanons/Targeters, but definitely points towards a cheaper cost that 40... to which i'd add: at 10Pts for standard HF,HB, Twin-linked ones would be 15? so 50 - 30 = 20 points for the BS4? i'd go with that once my Baneblade is finished, and say "i'll have it for 20, or do the maths above and get it for 10" OR if you think it's OP, let's just not play escalation xD

10-20 points for +1BS really does seem low. +10 pts for +1 BS on a regular vehicle, yes, that's an okay rule of thumb, but these things have three times as many hullpoints and much nastier main guns...

just saying via "available items" maths.

Just checked Escalation book: 10 points for the TL HF or HB.
This means 50-20: 30 points for the BS4. Pure maths from p45 of escalation and actually works well (i remembered it did).

Only the 5 points on the Rhino to compare SoF though, so any SoF cost is guesstimates =P

 BlackTalos wrote:
just saying via "available items" maths.

Just checked Escalation book: 10 points for the TL HF or HB.
This means 50-20: 30 points for the BS4. Pure maths from p45 of escalation and actually works well (i remembered it did).

Only the 5 points on the Rhino to compare SoF though, so any SoF cost is guesstimates =P

How we were doing it, is the +1BS is somehow rated as equal the 2 lascannons on the sponson.

Something normally +10, is now worth around +40.

The SoF, normally a +5, is who knows what on this.

So call it equivalent to buying the sponsons with targeters, and call it a day.

The flamer baneblade was cool...
but i like the biggest war machines stomping and spraying gore throughout the field of battle...so i think that penitent titan should have lots of scythes and stubbers so it could bodyslam another titan amidst a well of spraying gore-wait, i thought of a psychic titan just now...

"Titanic Bodyslam" would be an awesome special rule.

As is, the Penititan does have the option for whirling chainspikes around its ankles for better stepping on squishy infantry.