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The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer
^ Yeah, that. It's easily understandable, though a pity, that Lost and the Damned do not have a codex anymore. C:IG can represent it rather well after all.
Wyzilla wrote: Depends on the corruption. There's a big difference between "I'm sick and damn tired of serving the empire that simply asks more and never gives, and hot damn does Daemon Princehood look sick" and "oh hey look an artifac- ASDFOPAUOPSNFAFWENFASASFOUOIPUCUPNWERLJ:LJL:KJY*&(^&*CIHGH:LHLFHKLHLKJHO&*^(&*P!".
Yes, the first one is clearly Huron, the second one is clearly Decario.
But if you have references to marines resisting Chaos artifacts' influence better than normal humans, please share. As far as I know, those that are best equipped to deal with Chaos artifact while not getting corrupted are, by far, Sisters from Pronatus Orders, because, well, that is an integral part of their job. Their official and acknowledged job, I mean .
IIRC, even Marines bring them their own artifacts when those need reconsecration.
If Decario resisted the corrupting influence of Chaos artifact better than De Marche, I did not notice anything about it in all the background I read about the Relictors.
Wyzilla wrote: but they're just not entirely good at resisting promises as power, given their nature as power-hungry war mongering kings/knights.
And that is one of the best assets of Sisters to resist Chaos. They do not put their most ambitious, power-hungry, arrogant and vain members in lead. They look for humble sisters that accept leadership as a penance. It seems it works.
Imperial Guard uses Commissar instead . It seems it does not work as well as for Sisters (even though there are so many difference between the guard and the sisters that it is hard to compare them like that), but it really seems to work better than the marine way of letting power-hungry, glory-craving fools rule unchecked.
Wyzilla wrote: But say against something like Doubtworm, Astartes know the GEOM is real by their mere existence as Astartes
So did Horus. So did basically every traitor during the Heresy. Does not seem to have changed anything. So, irrelevant in my opinion.
Yes, they do exist and I never denied that. However, your link does not provide any number, or even indication, that they are more numerous than chaos space marines, and even less million times more.
In your headcanon, marines kill guardsmen like crazy. In my headcanon, marines become traitors each time they ask one of their fellow astartes on a date and get turned off .
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: but it really seems to work better than the marine way of letting power-hungry, glory-craving fools rule unchecked.
TBH the major weakness of marines isn't being powerhungry or glory-seeking as such, it's their pride. Part of their indoctrination is making them feel proud over the heritage of their Chapter and the deeds of the great Chapter Heroes. It makes them fight harder (indeed it's probably a huge part of their success) but also makes them prone to manipulation on the pride angle.
Huron didn't go bad because of a hunger for power, it was his pride that made him grab for more than he already had. After all, he's BETTER than mere mortals... who are they to dictate conditions to him?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/04 16:22:40
BrotherHaraldus wrote: And my link does provide an indication, the 'vast majority' to be specific.
It says that “Traitor Guard (or guardsmen) is a term given to the vast majority of disloyal mortals who have left the Imperial Guard in order to fight for Chaos”, which is almost a tautology. I mean, are there any disloyal mortals that have left the Imperial Guard in order to fight for Chaos and yet are not called traitor guardsmen ?
It strikes me as a simple copy-paste from the first article that says :
“The Lost and the Damned is a moniker given to the vast majority of ordinary mortals who fight for Chaos.” Which says something totally different.
Actually, if you care enough to read the article, you will see that it mentions :
The vast bulk of the Lost and the Damned stems from the twisted and zealous denizens of the Daemon Worlds. Gross mutants, fierce beastmen, Rogue Psyker, Apostate Cardinals, and primitive tribesmen alike seek to fight on faraway worlds for the glory and benevolence of their masters.
Among the better armed and slightly saner troops are imperial outlaws: pirates, mercenaries, cultists and military deserters who have turned from their Emperor and fled from imperial justice. Occasionally entire companies, or even regiments of the Imperial Guard turn to Chaos, and take with them their vehicles and armoury. Known as Traitor Guard, these heretics have not yet lost their skills due to madness, forming a hardened and reliable core amongst the slavering hordes of the Lost and Damned.
So, we have the vast bulk of “ordinary mortals that fight for Chaos” that are loopy troops, and most of them where born into it. Then we have some much better and rarer troops, some of which are pirates, some of which are mercenaries, some of which are cultists, and only then do we get to hear about renegade guardsmen. It really strikes me as saying that renegade guardsmen are only a small, tiny fraction of the humans fighting for Chaos.
You have nothing in the official fluff disproving in any way my headcanon that marines turn traitor way, way, way more than Imperial Guard. And maybe also more than even normal humans, given how marines are few compared to normal humans, and how the bulk of TLATD consist (from your own source) of humans that were born into chaos worship.
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
So, we have the vast bulk of “ordinary mortals that fight for Chaos” that are loopy troops, and most of them where born into it. Then we have some much better and rarer troops, some of which are pirates, some of which are mercenaries, some of which are cultists, and only then do we get to hear about renegade guardsmen. It really strikes me as saying that renegade guardsmen are only a small, tiny fraction of the humans fighting for Chaos.
You have nothing in the official fluff disproving in any way my headcanon that marines turn traitor way, way, way more than Imperial Guard. And maybe also more than even normal humans, given how marines are few compared to normal humans, and how the bulk of TLATD consist (from your own source) of humans that were born into chaos worship.
Spoiler:
"It is not only heretics and traitors that flock to the banners of the Dark Apostles. It's not unheard of for these devotees of Chaos to subvert entire regiments of the Imperial Guard, or even stranded bands of Space Marines, to their cause. In a galaxy of unrelenting war, rebellion can spread like wildfire, there are records of single Dark Apostles inspiring entire planetary populations to chant damning hymnals until Daemons ran free in the streets."
-- "Dark Apostle". Codex: Chaos Space Marines. p35
And the day I shall bring my war to the Adeptus Ministorum is now...
I'd posit that an entire Regiment of IG turning to Chaos probably accounts for the equivalent of 2 or more entire SM Chapters, at full strength, turning to Chaos, purely by numbers.
After all, a small Regiment is still several thousand troops (the Tanith First-And-Only was, what, 3000 soldiers at the outset? And that's just the ones that made it off Tanith!) and the bog-standard Space Marine Chapter is but a thousand Battle-Brothers.
It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised.
The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer
Oxayotl, I can see your reasoning and why you think it is right, the problem is just that said reasoning has more holes than swiss cheese.
You are saying that Marines fall extraordinarily easy. They don't. They may fall disproportionally often, but nobody turns to Chaos without some kind of reason for doing so. Most Guardsmen never even get to face Daemons or Chaos traitors, whether human or superhuman, while the percentage of Marines who do so is far higher. Average Marines face far worse threats than average Guardsmen do, it's what they are for, and this includes mighty threats that are later revealed to be capable of corrupting the foe, such as those the later-to-be Blood Disciples faced.
Or, to short it down; you're effectively saying that U.S. Marines stationed in a warzone are far less skilled at handling combat situations than Swedish nightclub bouncers are, since the former have a much higher rate of dying on the job.
Does it seem like false equivalence to you?
Newsflash, it isn't.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/03/04 21:10:21
lcmiracle wrote: And the day I shall bring my war to the Adeptus Ministorum is now...
Why ? Because I disagree with you on whether marines or imperial guards are more resistant to falling to chaos ? It seems an overreaction to me.
I really think that your average space marine chapter, say Space Wolves, is more prone to heresy than, say, Kriegsmen, Cadians, or Vostroyans. Of course, they are less so than Savlar Chem-Dogs, but that is not really something to goat about. Let us compare what is comparable, Savlar Chem-Dogs are less prone to fall to chaos than Night Lords : as far as I know, there was not even one Night Lord that remained loyalist.
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
lcmiracle wrote:
And the day I shall bring my war to the Adeptus Ministorum is now...
Spoiler:
Psienesis wrote:I'd posit that an entire Regiment of IG turning to Chaos probably accounts for the equivalent of 2 or more entire SM Chapters, at full strength, turning to Chaos, purely by numbers.
After all, a small Regiment is still several thousand troops (the Tanith First-And-Only was, what, 3000 soldiers at the outset? And that's just the ones that made it off Tanith!) and the bog-standard Space Marine Chapter is but a thousand Battle-Brothers.
The Tanith First and Only were the infantry sections of the First regiment and about half the infantry sections of the Second and Third regiments. None of the officers made it off world.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/04 21:19:00
"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad.
Right, and thus, if that is meant to be indicative of a standard Regiment, a single IG regiment is like 10,000 people, as it is often commented that those who made it off-world were a relatively small fraction of their total strength. So, by that metric, it would seem that a single IG regiment would count for 5 SM Chapters.
It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised.
BrotherHaraldus wrote: Oxayotl, I can see your reasoning and why you think it is right, the problem is just that said reasoning has more holes than swiss cheese.
I think your reasoning that marines can shrug off heavy artillery fire as long as it was crewed by an Imperial Guard rather than a Space Marine flawed too. But hey, everyone is entitled to their opinion .
BrotherHaraldus wrote: Most Guardsmen never even get to face Daemons or Chaos traitors, whether human or superhuman, while the percentage of Marines who do so is far higher.
I agree, but not for the same reasons you do. I think is it true only because marines can live much longer lives than real human. But when a threat is discovered, I really do not think the Imperium then cherry-pick who to send to deal with that threat. It is just the closest troops that are send to deal with it. And it is usually Imperial Guard, because those are much more numerous than Marines.
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
I think your reasoning that marines can shrug off heavy artillery fire as long as it was crewed by an Imperial Guard rather than a Space Marine flawed too. But hey, everyone is entitled to their opinion .
Strawman. Please quote the post where I said the above or even implied it. I dare you to do it. I double dare you.
As for the other stuff, Marine age counts in for sure, but Marines mostly choose their battles themselves unless they are bullied by Inquisitors or something like that. So, if they hear something about a coven of Sorcerers melting all the hapless Guard units that come within their sight on a beset Imperial planet, it seems pretty reasonable that any Marine contingent that is reasonably close would report themselves willing for the task, readying their Drop Pods and Librarians for some fun.
Etc.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/03/04 21:32:30
I'll bring war to the Ecclesiarchy because I'm not sure how I can trust an organization so overly zealous yet cannot keep an agent of Chaos out of their church
lcmiracle wrote: I'll bring war to the Ecclesiarchy because I'm not sure how I can trust an organization so overly zealous yet cannot keep an agent of Chaos out of their church
Vandire wasn't an agent of chaos. He was just an agent of Vandire.
"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad.
tbh we should use my fluff statline and give stormtroopers gretchin stats
basilisks should be s4 ap4 at best
yes that would be good
(Mandatory passive-aggressive smiley: )
It should be noted that the above is not 100% serious, in case angry mods find this on a monday morning.
.
And yeah, I did read the last sentence. But everything you said in that thread was like that anyway .
BrotherHaraldus wrote: As for the other stuff, Marine age counts in for sure, but Marines mostly choose their battles themselves unless they are bullied by Inquisitors or something like that. So, if they hear something about a coven of Sorcerers melting all the hapless Guard units that come within their sight on a beset Imperial planet, it seems pretty reasonable that any Marine contingent that is reasonably close would report themselves willing for the task, readying their Drop Pods and Librarians for some fun.
So, your point is that the Imperial Guard is unable to beat the sorcerer, but the marines will be ? See, you are doing it again .
lcmiracle wrote: I'll bring war to the Ecclesiarchy because I'm not sure how I can trust an organization so overly zealous yet cannot keep an agent of Chaos out of their church
I am sorry, I thought you wolves were agents of Tzeentch. I mean, you single-handedly turned Magnus from one of the best assets of the Imperium to a bitter foe. And then half of yours run to join the Red Corsairs. And yet you still pretend to have the high moral ground .
Beside, Vandire was also way classier than any space wolf can possibly be. He was too busy to die, for Emperor's sake !
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
And yeah, I did read the last sentence. But everything you said in that thread was like that anyway .
I never mentioned the crew of the basilisk. The Legiones Astartes had Basilisks too. And even then, that thread was not very serious.......................................
So, your point is that the Imperial Guard is unable to beat the sorcerer, but the marines will be ? See, you are doing it again .
Yep.
Show me Guardsmen drop pods and heavily armoured psykers suitable for the very front line and I'll take that back.
Plus, 'half the space wolves' did not join the Red Corsairs.
A single ship crew did.
Overall, my points stand.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/03/04 23:10:30
IG don't use drop pods, because GW says you have to be in power armor to use them (makes no sense, but, whatever). Also, the ability to deliver 10 guys into the enemy's grill by aerial insertion pales in comparison to driving up 60 dudes in 5 Chimera, mounting twin-linked heavy bolters in the turret and hull-mounted flamers or lascannons... that's a whole lotta suppressive fire under which to deploy your mechanized infantry.
It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised.
lcmiracle wrote: I'll bring war to the Ecclesiarchy because I'm not sure how I can trust an organization so overly zealous yet cannot keep an agent of Chaos out of their church
Vandire wasn't an agent of chaos. He was just an agent of Vandire.
Pfff, Vandire? He's merely an incompetent fool...
I'm talking about Saint Basillius
lcmiracle wrote: I'll bring war to the Ecclesiarchy because I'm not sure how I can trust an organization so overly zealous yet cannot keep an agent of Chaos out of their church
I am sorry, I thought you wolves were agents of Tzeentch. I mean, you single-handedly turned Magnus from one of the best assets of the Imperium to a bitter foe. And then half of yours run to join the Red Corsairs. And yet you still pretend to have the high moral ground .
Beside, Vandire was also way classier than any space wolf can possibly be. He was too busy to die, for Emperor's sake !
Not as bad ass as saint Basillius , who was once an apostle of Chaos
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/03/04 23:44:09
No. Yet given all your other comments on that thread, I feel that it is quite an easy assumption to make that if you did mention how the basilisk's profile should be nerfed to the ground, it was because it is some IG tank.
BrotherHaraldus wrote: And even then, that thread was not very serious.......................................
Because this one seems serious to you ?
BrotherHaraldus wrote: Show me Guardsmen drop pods and heavily armoured psykers suitable for the very front line and I'll take that back.
Why drop a pod when you can drop enough explosive to reduce any living being in the area to a pulp, using basilisks, Manticore, Deathstrike missile launchers and Bombards ? Just why ?
lcmiracle wrote: I'll bring war to the Ecclesiarchy because I'm not sure how I can trust an organization so overly zealous yet cannot keep an agent of Chaos out of their church
Vandire wasn't an agent of chaos. He was just an agent of Vandire.
Pfff, Vandire? He's merely an incompetent fool...
I'm talking about Saint Basillius
lcmiracle wrote: I'll bring war to the Ecclesiarchy because I'm not sure how I can trust an organization so overly zealous yet cannot keep an agent of Chaos out of their church
I am sorry, I thought you wolves were agents of Tzeentch. I mean, you single-handedly turned Magnus from one of the best assets of the Imperium to a bitter foe. And then half of yours run to join the Red Corsairs. And yet you still pretend to have the high moral ground .
Beside, Vandire was also way classier than any space wolf can possibly be. He was too busy to die, for Emperor's sake !
Not as bad ass as saint Basillius , who was once an apostle of Chaos
Uh ?
[url="http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Saint_Basillius"]Saint Basillius was an Imperial Saint. In 321.M37, he declared thirty Space Marine Chapters' faith to be lacking, condemning them to the Abyssal Crusade in the Eye of Terror.
In early M38, Chapter Master Konvak Lann of the Vorpal Swords led the survivors of the Crusade out of the Eye of Terror, having purged at least four hundred worlds. However the Chapter Master declared the now-ancient Saint Basillius to be a false idol. Worship oaf him was banned, and his remains and relics were loaded onto a freighter and launched into a nearby star.[/url]
So, you are extrapolating a ton of nonsense out of very small blurb of text in the main rulebook ?
What about he was not at all a chaos worshiper, and neither was he a member of the Ecclesiarchy (not all saint are) ? The marines bullied everyone into stopping to worshiping as a petty revenge, because that what they are, bullies. Thanks to him, at least four hundred worlds were purged. I say he definitely is a saint !
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2014/03/05 00:17:00
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
lcmiracle wrote: I'll bring war to the Ecclesiarchy because I'm not sure how I can trust an organization so overly zealous yet cannot keep an agent of Chaos out of their church
I am sorry, I thought you wolves were agents of Tzeentch. I mean, you single-handedly turned Magnus from one of the best assets of the Imperium to a bitter foe. And then half of yours run to join the Red Corsairs. And yet you still pretend to have the high moral ground .
Beside, Vandire was also way classier than any space wolf can possibly be. He was too busy to die, for Emperor's sake !
Not as bad ass as saint Basillius , who was once an apostle of Chaos
Uh ?
[url=http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Saint_Basillius]Saint Basillius was an Imperial Saint. In 321.M37, he declared thirty Space Marine Chapters' faith to be lacking, condemning them to the Abyssal Crusade in the Eye of Terror.
In early M38, Chapter Master Konvak Lann of the Vorpal Swords led the survivors of the Crusade out of the Eye of Terror, having purged at least four hundred worlds. However the Chapter Master declared the now-ancient Saint Basillius to be a false idol. Worship of him was banned, and his remains and relics were loaded onto a freighter and launched into a nearby star.[/url]
So, you are extrapolating a ton of nonsense out of very small blurb of text in the main rulebook ?
What about he was not at all a chaos worshiper, and neither was he a member of the Ecclesiarchy (not all saint are) ? The marines bullied everyone into stopping to worshiping as a petty revenge, because that what they are, bullies. Thanks to him, at least four hundred worlds were purged. I say he definitely is a saint !
I'll give you a quote from the 6e Codex CSM, once I'm back at my apartment after I'm done having me dinner son.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2014/03/05 00:04:58
The story of Saint Basillius is an interesting one, indeed, as the Saint himself was long-since dead by the time the remains of the Abyssal Crusade made it back to the Imperium and, according to at least one source, there were people worshiping Basillius as a god... which is really, really, *really* out of the norm for the Ecclesiarchy.
Also, at least according to the Lexi article, there was no investigation as to what the deal actually was with the guy, they just boxed up all his bones and stuff and shot it into a star. They also tore down all his churches and shrines and stuff, because of course they did, but there doesn't seem to be anything done that proves Basillius was a Chaos Apostle... which is odd, but may also just be the current crop of GW writers being not-so-great.
It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised.
Psienesis wrote: The story of Saint Basillius is an interesting one, indeed, as the Saint himself was long-since dead by the time the remains of the Abyssal Crusade made it back to the Imperium and, according to at least one source, there were people worshiping Basillius as a god... which is really, really, *really* out of the norm for the Ecclesiarchy.
Also, at least according to the Lexi article, there was no investigation as to what the deal actually was with the guy, they just boxed up all his bones and stuff and shot it into a star. They also tore down all his churches and shrines and stuff, because of course they did, but there doesn't seem to be anything done that proves Basillius was a Chaos Apostle... which is odd, but may also just be the current crop of GW writers being not-so-great.
Because Lex didn't quote Codex CSM for some reason. Like I said, mate, just sit tight, I'm stuck in the lab, and will give you the quote when I'm done eating me dinner and got back to my apartment. How about we discuss about that after I give you the line?
Automatically Appended Next Post: In the name of the bloody talisman... ok, where were we? let's see, abyssal crusade, abyssal crusade...
First, let establish the background.
Spoiler:
The Abyssal Crusade The 37th Millennium saw thrity thousand space marines embark on a redemptive crusade into the Eye of Terror. Barley half returned, and many of those left behind were horribly altered, caught in thrall to the very forces they had sought to purge.
After the Ecclesiarchal Purges 321.M37, Saint Basillius the Elder was ascendant. His 'puritas divisions' included several chapter of space marines, each of which was extremely fierce in their vigiliance - wherever a mutant or cultist was found, an execution would immediately follow, regardless of age, sex, station or circumstance. For once, the ecclesiarchy worked in the concert with the Inquisition and the Adeptus Astartes across the entire Segmentum Solar, making it mandatory for the populace to inform on anyone they suspected to bear the spoor of chaos. Those few civil liberties the Imperial citizenry had left were stripped back even further, and countless false allegatons were made, but the tactic was ultimate effective; the incidence of insurrection dropped to almost nil. ""The Abyssal Crusade". Codex: Chaos Space Marines, 6e. Kelly, Phil. p17."
Not wishing to copy the whole 3 pages, you'll just have go by the rule book about what happened next; and I'm sure you all know how nice this whole thing turned out...
That is, until a chaos fleet ambushed the crusaders, and scattered them amongst the daemon worlds...
Spoiler:
The Tides of Change Less than an hour after the judged had made transition into the Eye, a warfleet of misshapen battle craft encrusted with the sigils of Chaos Emerged from the dust clouds to intercept them... Soon the battle raged so fiercely that all cohesion amongst the judged fleed was lost. The sheer amount of destruction meted out caused a great turmoil in the warp, the fabric itself began to tear open. Just as the Chaos fleet retreated, the ships of the Judged were scattered to the furthest corners of the Eye. "The Abyssal Crusade". Codex: Chaos Space Marines, 6e. Kelly, Phil. p17.
The rest, well, until some of them came out of that hellhole, is pretty much the same as you know, just more detailed. Rest assured much blood were spilled, and many astartes were dead -- and the remainders either be turned to chaos, willingly or otherwise, or -- they survived.
And what came upon when the survivors reached the Imperium?
Spoiler:
A Bitter Redemption The tales go on, though few outside the mysterious Black Library have any idea of their extent. The Adepts of the Administratum outright deny any link between the loss of the Judged and the increased frequency of Chaos Space Marine raids thereafter. All that is know that, almost 800 years after the Abyssal Crusade began, the remnants of some of the Judged Chapters returned from the Warp. They could barely contain their fury when they were detained by agents of the Inquisition and tested for the taint of Chaos. As they passed every test, a horrible truth came to light. Saint Basillius still lived, and the testimony of Konvak Lann, Chapter Master of the Vorpal Swords Chapter, revealed him as a false idol, guilty of sending innocents into the jaws of damnation.
The Vorpal Swords led the other survivors, blazing with righteous anger, to penetrate the defence of Basillius' palace. They found the unaccountably ancient saint and finally revealed Basillius' true nature as an apostle of Chaos. Basillius and thousands of followers were slain, his shrines destroyed, and every relic and tome of his creed burnd, as if he had never existed. Even so, the full extent of his corruption and the reach of his influence has never been discovered.
"The Abyssal Crusade". Codex: Chaos Space Marines, 6e. Kelly, Phil. p19
And I suppose this also coincidentally answered the OP (the heke do you mean, it's all just as planned...) that yes, several chapters may serve the Ecclesiarchy, either with ties to an Ecclesiarchy official, or just if they have a shared agenda...
This message was edited 11 times. Last update was at 2014/03/05 07:00:49
Pfff, Vandire? He's merely an incompetent fool...
I'm talking about Saint Basillius
Vandire made a few good decisions, but ultimately, a man is only as good as the woman behind him, so once Alicia turned her gaze away he was finished.
lcmiracle wrote:
Not as bad ass as saint Basillius , who was once an apostle of Chaos
Cardinals can't do anything right. Honestly, without the Sororitas there to hold their hands every step of the way, they go off and do stupid things like being duped by Chaos...
"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad.
Well give me a citation where the sisters weren't accompanying the 800 years old imperial saint ascendant?
Also, weren't the sororitas supposed to be watching the ecclesiarchy? Or were they just so over joyed in their whatevers that for 800 years never once had they suspected a thing?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/03/05 08:00:33
The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer
'Basillius? Traitor? Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah. He's faithful! Those eight-pointed stars all over his bedroom? They are... Uhm... They are just him learning how to paint! What do you mean he's chanting and sacrificed one of his attendants on an altar? He's just using sarcasm, obviously!'
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Order of the Righteous Armour - 542 points so far. 
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Have a look, I guarantee you will not see greyer armies, EVER! Now with at least 4 shades of grey
