Ecclesiarchy Astartes Chapter

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**Theophilos**

So the Grey Knights are the Space Marine chapter militant of the Ordo Malleus, and the Deathwatch are the Space Marine chapter militant of the Ordo Xenos (both are aligned with the Inquisition). Is there a chapter aligned with the Ecclesiarchy (Adeptus Ministorum), or which is especially close to the Ecclesiarchy? My first guess was that the Black Templars would be a Ecclesiarchy-aligned chapter, though I do not see anything in their history pointing to this.

**Hanskrampf**

While not Astartes, the Adeptus Sororitas is the militant arm of the Ecclesiarchy. Don't know about any chapter, that has close relations to the Ecclesiarchy.

**trexmeyer**

None of the chapters have close ties to the Ecclesiarchy because their respective belief systems are fundamentally different. The Ecclesiarchy worships the Emperor as a god and Space Marines recognize him as a man (albeit a superior one) and pay homage to him as their progenitor. Basically the Space Marines beliefs are borderline heresy and are only tolerated because they serve the Emperor and are beneficial to the Imperium.

**Furyou Miko**

Pretty much what's been stated - the only Astartes that come close to following the Imperial Creed are the Black Templars, but even they don't quite manage the whole 'God-Emperor' thing.

Besides, the Ecclesiarchy doesn't need any abhuman monsters, they have the Daughters of the Emperor, also known as the Most Holy Orders of the Adepta Sororitas, the Sisters of Battle.

**insaniak**

That, and the whole reason the Ecclesiarchy has the Sisters is that they are forbidden by Imperial Law from having men under arms.

**Furyou Miko**

Well, Astartes chapters wouldn't be directly answering to them, I assumed the question was in the context of 'a close alliance'.

That said, I'm not sure why the Ministorum is being equated to the Inquisition. The Ministorum as a body is much more powerful than the Inquisition (although an Inquisitor is much more powerful than a Priest on an individual basis).

**UlrikDecado**

They have Word Bearers. Of course, they have in the moment a little faith crisis and there is slight misunderstanding between them and Ecclesiarchy, but that will pass.

Of course, it will be harder because Ecc has Sisters of Battle so they dont need mere Astartes Chapters...on the other hand Astartes Legion...

**Pilau Rice**

The Fire Angels are believers in the Imperial Creed and do not venerate Guilliman as the other Chapter do as they see it as a form of idolatry.

According to the Abyssal Crusade there were a number of Space Marine chapters controlled by the Imperial Saint Basillius forming a Puritas Division. As a saint I would guess he would have something to do with the Ecclesiarchy.

It's a very rare thing to have Space Marine chapters that follow the Imperial Creed as the Ecclesiarchy do.

**Kroothawk**

insaniak wrote:
That, and the whole reason the Ecclesiarchy has the Sisters is that they are forbidden by Imperial Law from having men under arms.

So only female Space Marines would be allowed

**TiamatRoar**

There's at least one canon loyalist chapter that does believe the Emperor is a god (probably more canon ones, but I am sure there's at least one). I don't recall the name though, but they fought the Plague of Unbelief (zombies) and not a single one caught the disease due to their piety.

They aren't controlled by the Ecclesiarchy though. I don't see why the Ecclesiarchy would need a space marine chapter when they have the sisters of battle.

**Orlanth**

Ever since Goge Vandire the Ecclesiarchy has been forbidden to have a standing army. The Adepta Sororitas get around this by not being men or technically an army.

Later founding Chapters may well consider the Emperor a god. However earlier founding chapters with links back to their Primarchs know their Primarchs walked as near equals with the Emperor.

**jareddm**

The Red Hunters are probably the closest thing outside of the Sisters of Battle. They work quite significantly with the Ordo Hereticus and view the Emperor as a god.

Other than them, the Fire Angels, Fire Hawks, and Celestial Lions most assuredly see the Emperor as a god, with new Black Templar lore appearing to disagree with previous beliefs.

**Troike**

Orlanth wrote:
The Adepta Sororitas get around this by not being [...] technically an army.

Hmmm? I don't recall reading any fluff that's said that. They're quite explicitly an military force, being described as the militant arm of the Ecclesiarchy and being responsible for defending and fighting for Ecclesiarchial interests. Pretty sure the only technicality they're using to circumnavigate the Decree Passive is their gender.

Orlanth wrote:
However earlier founding chapters with links back to their Primarchs know their Primarchs walked as near equals with the Emperor.

Though, interestingly, the Templars are a notable exception, seeing as they were one of the earliest Chapters.

**Psienesis**

There are several Chapters with very close ties to the Ecclesiarchy, though none of them are under the authority of the Ecclesiarchy, as that is not how such things work. Still, a pious Chapter is very likely to assist the Church in its goals, if these are the sorts of things that Space Marines can help with. You aren't going to see any Astartes choirs in a cathedral, though.

Quoting myself from another thread:

Me wrote:The Fire Hawks are one, prior to becoming the LotD, having been one of the first to the fight during the Age of Apostasy, in support of Sebastian Thor (and did, in fact, get awarded a Heresy-era Battle Barge by him, iirc, as Vandire had destroyed their homeworld).

The Adulators were mentioned in a Chapter Approved article, of which it is said (according to Lexicanum) "The chapter is steeped in the ways of the Ecclesiarchy and are on close terms with their holy orders".

Arguments can be made for the Angels Resplendent/Angels Penitent, the Brazen Skulls, the Celebrants, the Crimson Fists, the Templars of Blood, and the Novamarines.

The Angels Revenant were said to be "stern supporters of the Imperial Creed".

The White Consuls also worship the Emperor as a god, which is noted for being unusual for the Astartes.

The Doom Eagles are "notoriously pious".

The Fire Angels (a UM Successor) are zealously dedicated to the Creed. Of them, it is said, "they do not revere their ancestral primarch (Roboute Guilliman) as most chapters do, believing this to be a form of idolatry".

The Red Scorpions, who developed the Helios-pattern Land Raider, are seriously in the Emp-worshipping camp.

The Storm Wardens, from FFG's Dwathwatch game, most definitely venerate the Emperor as a god.

**Furyou Miko**

Troike wrote:
Orlanth wrote:
The Adepta Sororitas get around this by not being [...] technically an army.

Hmmm? I don't recall reading any fluff that's said that. They're quite explicitly an military force, being described as the militant arm of the Ecclesiarchy and being responsible for defending and fighting for Ecclesiarchial interests. Pretty sure the only technicality they're using to circumnavigate the Decree Passive is their gender.

Orlanth wrote:
However earlier founding chapters with links back to their Primarchs know their Primarchs walked as near equals with the Emperor.

Though, interestingly, the Templars are a notable exception, seeing as they were one of the earliest Chapters.

We were mandated as basically an Internal Affairs unit rather than an army, although Thor did basically say, "but we need guardians anyway, so lets give them awesome gear and training".

**Psienesis**

The Sororitas exists not by "technically not being an army" but by literally not being men.

**Ashiraya**

insaniak wrote:
That, and the whole reason the Ecclesiarchy has the Sisters is that they are forbidden by Imperial Law from having men under arms.

What about those chainsword-swinging priests?

**Psienesis**

They're not "men under arms", which is defined as being a regular militia or military unit.

**Troike**

@Furyou
I'll have to sift through some codexes l, once I'm able to. Pretty sure the Sisters are classed as an army, though. They certainly do things beyond internal affairs.

BrotherHaraldus wrote:
What about those chainsword-swinging priests?

They're not as zealous about enforcing the Decree Passive as you'd think. Battle Conclaves, which can include several armed men, are allowed as long as they aren't too big. According to the 5E codex, the Inquisition is more concerned about the spirit of it rather than the letter.

As for the armed clergymen, I guess they'd just be considered as clergymen with the means to defend themselves on the battlefield rather than men under arms.

**Furyou Miko**

BrotherHaraldus wrote:
insaniak wrote:
That, and the whole reason the Ecclesiarchy has the Sisters is that they are forbidden by Imperial Law from having men under arms.

What about those chainsword-swinging priests?

Fencing is a perfectly reasonable hobby for a man of the cloth to pursue.

No, seriously. That's the reason for Priests having a decent weapon skill (even if it has dropped for this codex). They practice fighting "as a personal exercise".

**Aqvila Invictis**

BrotherHaraldus wrote:
insaniak wrote:
That, and the whole reason the Ecclesiarchy has the Sisters is that they are forbidden by Imperial Law from having men under arms.

What about those chainsword-swinging priests?

Not much of an army. Get three or four of them together and they'll just fall to pieces.

**BlaxicanX**

Priests also aren't technically soldiers. They don't exist within the military chain-of-command, thus, their authority is "moral" rather than legal.

... though in the Grimdark Future of the 41st Millenium, the distinction between the two is pretty blurry.

Thinking about the Ecclesiarchy's limitations, why couldn't they have their own Marine chapter, though? I mean, if they really wanted too. The very same loophole that allows them to have the sisters would also allow them to have Marines, no? We don't call a male dog, or a male monkey or any male animal a "man", because they're not Human, and a "man" is explicitly a human male. Astartes aren't human, though. So while they are males, they "technically" aren't men.

**Psienesis**

The distinction to call Space Marines "ab-humans" is not one that is widely held or recognized.

Also, pretty sure the Inquisition would just flat-out say "no".

**Ironclad Warlord**

Ecclesiarchy doesn't need any abhuman monsters, they have the Daughters of the Emperor, also known as the Most Holy Orders of the Adepta Sororitas, the Sisters of Battle.

I'll never understand the dislike SOB players have for the space marines.

**BlaxicanX**

Ironclad Warlord wrote:
Ecclesiarchy doesn't need any abhuman monsters, they have the Daughters of the Emperor, also known as the Most Holy Orders of the Adepta Sororitas, the Sisters of Battle.

I'll never understand the dislike SOB players have for the space marines.

It's called being a hater.

Dakka Dakka is infested with them.

**Troike**

Regarding whether the Sisters of Battle technically an army, the first page of the AS codex actually refers to them as the army of the Ecclesiarchy. That's pretty clear-cut, I'd say.

Ironclad Warlord wrote:
I'll never understand the dislike SOB players have for the space marines.

I wouldn't say tht SoB players in general dislike Marines. It's just that there's frequent comparisons between the two in discussions, which can sometimes result in Marine fans and SoB fans "fighting their corners" a bit.

Personally, I don't dislike Marines in general. Some Chapters I even outright like.

**BrotherOfBone**

Furyou Miko wrote:

Besides, the Ecclesiarchy doesn't need any abhuman monsters, they have the Daughters of the Emperor, also known as the Most Holy Orders of the Adepta Sororitas, the Sisters of Battle.

Call the doctor immediately, we have another case of myarmyisbetterthanyours-itis!

**lcmiracle**

BrotherOfBone wrote:
Furyou Miko wrote:

Besides, the Ecclesiarchy doesn't need any abhuman monsters, they have the Daughters of the Emperor, also known as the Most Holy Orders of the Adepta Sororitas, the Sisters of Battle.

Call the doctor immediately, we have another case of myarmyisbetterthanyours-itis!

Oh brother. Quit the bickering and let's go drink some rum!

**Psienesis**

She isn't wrong, though. The Ecclesiarchy doesn't need Space Marines.

**Mr Morden**

Furyou Miko wrote:
Pretty much what's been stated - the only Astartes that come close to following the Imperial Creed are the Black Templars, but even they don't quite manage the whole 'God-Emperor' thing.

Besides, the Ecclesiarchy doesn't need any abhuman monsters, they have the Daughters of the Emperor, also known as the Most Holy Orders of the Adepta Sororitas, the Sisters of Battle.

The Black Templars - at the very least in recent fluff. ARE worshipers of the God Emperor even if they don't exactly follow the Imperial Creed. See Hesreach and of course the current Codex:

Unlike other chapters, who venerate the Emperor as their creator and the rightful ruler of the Imperium, the Black Templars believe him to be a divinity to whom they offer worship

As I read it this partially stems for the Horus HEresey where I get the impression those Imperial Fists who had begun to worship the Emperor formed the origiinal Chapter of the Black Templars.......

The Sisters and the Black Templars have often fought together- despite the rubbish that was part of the old Ally Marix