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She looks like a pretty, normal girl.

She looks like a normal human girl you might find working in a reporters office.

She is NOT a sex object with model-looks wearing a superman costume.


To be fair, I think it's more down-to-Earth and reduces idolisation of a specific look. It's refreshing.

Who is reminded of the black widow SNL skit?

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Who is reminded of the black widow SNL skit?

Lol, yes that.

It's certainly a different take, but not sure it's going to work (for me anyway)

I don't like Arrow at all..........

I liked the bits in this trailer when she is excited about being a Superpowered person and when she is doing stuff, the references to the at best Average Man of Steel film were ok.

Her boss is fun - but I had hoped they would not do the whole secret identity stuff as I find that whole thing tiresome for the most part.

 Wulfmar wrote:
She looks like a pretty, normal girl.

She looks like a normal human girl you might find working in a reporters office.

She is NOT a sex object with model-looks wearing a superman costume.


To be fair, I think it's more down-to-Earth and reduces idolisation of a specific look. It's refreshing.

Agreed.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Wulfmar wrote:
She looks like a pretty, normal girl.

She looks like a normal human girl you might find working in a reporters office.

She is NOT a sex object with model-looks wearing a superman costume.


To be fair, I think it's more down-to-Earth and reduces idolisation of a specific look. It's refreshing.

Agreed.

And it's a much better approach if you're trying to capture a female audience. Which they are.

While I of course understand what you mean, “capture” sounds a bit creepy here ^^.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
While I of course understand what you mean, “capture” sounds a bit creepy here ^^.

That might say more about you than him though - that's a really common way to express how a show tries to build and maintain ratings...

Well, maybe it says about me that I am not a native English speaker, then .

Is that one of those 'goes without saying' things?

Just watched the pilot/first episode. I liked it. Kind of Flash-esque in its tone. I hope they move past the repeated "Hah! You're just a Girl!" stuff and let her be a hero who happens to be a girl rather than a girl who's a hero. It's the same thing that bugs me about the She-Thor comics. Also I still say the guy they have playing James is way too hunky and suave to be Jimmy Olsen.

Maybe some version of "Jimmy" that you/we are used to but I'm OK with them mixing things up a bit.

Also - how did you get to watch the pilot already?!?

They leaked the first episode online apparently and it showed up on the site I catch all my tv shows on. Television premier in November? That's a heck of a wait for episode two.

 AduroT wrote:
Just watched the pilot/first episode. I liked it. Kind of Flash-esque in its tone. I hope they move past the repeated "Hah! You're just a Girl!" stuff and let her be a hero who happens to be a girl rather than a girl who's a hero. It's the same thing that bugs me about the She-Thor comics. Also I still say the guy they have playing James is way too hunky and suave to be Jimmy Olsen.

It's why, I think, they went out of their way to have him correct Kara when she calls him "Jimmy".

"Jimmy Olsen" is the awkward, gawky teenager with a camera following Clark Kent and Lois Lane around.
"James Olsen" is the man who grew up with a personal relationship with Superman.

Trailer killed all interest. Be prepared for an angsty drama about a teen girl and teen problems who struggles to deal with being a teen girl and a superhero.

Meh, guess it's just trying to cater to women who want their superhero movie too. I'll pass.

No teen drama really in the pilot at least. She's more young adult. Lives on her own, has a job, no mention of school. Maybe some romance triangle drama later as she crushes on James and her friend crushes on her.

Teen, to me, goes up in the early 20s. Young adult is more appropriate. Expecting lots of on-off relationships, typical teenage problems and growing up pains.

It will be interesting, though, how, and if, they manage to get her out of the "an inferior Superman" zone.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Trailer killed all interest. Be prepared for an angsty drama about a teen girl and teen problems who struggles to deal with being a teen girl and a superhero.

Except she's not a teen. And this show isn't on the CW.

 Alpharius wrote:
Also - how did you get to watch the pilot already?!?

Because some clever clogs over at CBS leaked it. I cannot imagine that this was by accident either, and I'm normally the guy who doesn't believe in intentional leaks. This leak was part damage control, part "Shut up about the rom-com stuff already" control, and part "Fine, let's just show them what the show is about!" control.

Worked for me.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Who is reminded of the black widow SNL skit?

I think that's kind of the point. Alien being Kara wants desperately to fit in as a human woman, so she embraces the lifestyle she believes is normal or ideal for a human woman. Then she becomes a hero by being herself and embracing her alien powers. So, yeah, similar take on stereotypical gender roles, but from a different direction. Of course, I could be giving the show way too much credit.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Who is reminded of the black widow SNL skit?

I think that's kind of the point. Alien being Kara wants desperately to fit in as a human woman, so she embraces the lifestyle she believes is normal or ideal for a human woman. Then she becomes a hero by being herself and embracing her alien powers. So, yeah, similar take on stereotypical gender roles, but from a different direction. Of course, I could be giving the show way too much credit.

Close. While she didn't start out as young as Clark, she doesn't go Supergirl here until some years after landing, going thru her teen years on Earth. She's not doing the job she has because she thinks she's supposed to or to blend in but because it was the life she was living and grew into. It's not that she Wants to fit in, but that she Does fit in. However she Also wants to be like big cousin Clark and help people, so she dons the cape and starts to do that as well.

I watched the leaked first episode. I feel deeply let down by their version of Vartox. A fight between pretty much any kryptonian and Vartox should be epic. This...... was not.

Maybe they just didn't bother to look up what his powers were, or only knew him from his brief appearance in Powergirl... but...

This was a character who *Superman* has flat out stated was harder to kill than Superman is. He once took an exploding planet to the face and was unharmed.

Sounds like your expectations of a somewhat obscure villain weren't met - if that's the only 'problem' you had, I'd say they're off to a good start!

 Alpharius wrote:
Sounds like your expectations of a somewhat obscure villain weren't met - if that's the only 'problem' you had, I'd say they're off to a good start!

My other problem being that he wasn't a villain (per se) in the comics. Or obscure, except to you young whipper snappers who think that Tony Stark became Iron Man in Afghanistan....


If it was, say, Red Fang, or Lumberjack (who will be fighting Supergirl as well) who only made appearances in a single issue of Wonder Woman in the early 1980's, i can see your point. But Vartox has been in more issues than Doomsday, so....


the special effects were inconsistent, they run into the issue of digital and photographic effects not being quite on par. The 'pure' CGI effects (punching Kara through a building) are good, but any time they mix 'live' images with CGi (a lot of the 'flying fast' shots) it's sub par [as in i can do better with my PC at home].

I'm used enough to bad plots to ignore it, but it wasn't very good, and ... frankly left me going 'now wait a min'... that and faceless Superman irritates me. How hard would it have been to get the new guy to do a cameo? Is the budget REALLY that small?

Actually, you hit the nail on the head mentioning Iron Man in Afghansistan. Whatever you know about the comic, stop referencing it. This isn't the comics, it's not going to be the comics and the characters aren't going to do the same thing as the comics. Anything in the comics is source material only, and will be changed anytime for any reason and the key to enjoying it is to take it as it is and not as it was elsewhere. Same issue as every comic based media... Helps to just forget it and look with fresh eyes or slightly knowing nods at names and ideas.

Since I don't read the comics, the villain was still friggin weak and pathetic, but oh well.

I expect the show to be entertaining as a TV show. Just like X-Men is entertaining as a movie franchise, or Avengers. Since the show is meant to appeal to a wide audience that DOESN'T read the decades of comic books, they did just fine in making something entertaining.

I'm actually really liking the actress that plays Kara. Somehow she is less attractive when she's human in a sort of 'wouldn't look twice' kind of way but is more eye catching as Supergirl. I'm sure that isn't an accident and they work towards it, but just the plain fact that it worked is impressive when it's strictly visual and not something more imaginative.

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
Whatever you know about the comic, stop referencing it. This isn't the comics, it's not going to be the comics and the characters aren't going to do the same thing as the comics. .

Yes, but good comic based material respects the source material. Otherwise the only people it appeals to are the ones who have never read the comic. Particularly when the character in question was a big part of the comedic relief for Amanda Conner's legendary run on Powergirl. and appearently will be appearing again in the first run of Conner's new PG book coming up post Convergence.

Except, mainstream media isn't expected to respect the source material. Look at Whiplash (I think that's the name) from Iron Man 2. That wasn't a set of purple tights. Look at Deadpool from X-Men Origins. Look at the new Fantastic Four movie with the black Human Torch. Look at the Tobey Maguire Spider-Man, and we're not even going to include 3 in that because that was just not good by any stretch of the imagination. Look at the Iron Man origin story you referenced. Look at the Mandarin in Iron Man 3. I don't know much about comics so I can't name more but I know for a fact there are many more simply because of all the times that someone that knows the comics are vocal about the differences.

It's mainstream media, not niche entertainment anymore. Pandering to a comic fan isn't what they're trying to do. They're trying to expand the audience, capture people with a passing interest in a comic character, make money, entertain the general population and take as little risk as possible. It absolutely doesn't matter what a character USED to be. It has no place when discussing the show. It's a bastardization of the original, but that's just what people that love the original material are going to have to deal with.

 BaronIveagh wrote:

Yes, but good comic based material respects the source material. Otherwise the only people it appeals to are the ones who have never read the comic.

Guess who the target audience is. Hint: It isn't comic book fans.

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Sounds like your expectations of a somewhat obscure villain weren't met - if that's the only 'problem' you had, I'd say they're off to a good start!

My other problem being that he wasn't a villain (per se) in the comics. Or obscure, except to you young whipper snappers who think that Tony Stark became Iron Man in Afghanistan....

I've been reading comics since...yikes!...the 70's, and I'll admit to being more of a Marvel fan than a DC fan, for the most part, especially 'back then' - but yeah, Vartox was and is a really obscure character!

But as already noted - this serious isn't for stoggy old grognards - it is for the next generation, mostly, whoever they may be!

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
Except, mainstream media isn't expected to respect the source material. Look at Whiplash (I think that's the name) from Iron Man 2. That wasn't a set of purple tights.

That's a pretty superficial comparison in this case. He was still a whip wielding villain who had a serious personal grudge against Tony Stark. Changing the costume is understandable, as something that look good in comics look horrible on film (thus, Wolverine's lack of yellow tights). that's something that had to change for a practical reason.

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
Look at Deadpool from X-Men Origins.

Look how Ryan Reynolds has been begging to make a Deadpool movie that was true to the comics to make up for that. AND THEY GAVE IT TO HIM.

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
Look at the new Fantastic Four movie with the black Human Torch.

That's not actually much of a change. He's also been an android (original human torch), a woman, (Marvel Mangaverse), a zombie (Marvel Zombies/Ultimate Fantastic Four), and Deadpool (Deadpool regular series).

However, in each incarnation, they made a point that he remain identifiably the Human Torch.

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
Look at the Mandarin in Iron Man 3.

You may want to go over and watch the Marvel One Shot that came with Thor-The Dark world before using this as an example. It got retconned.

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
It has no place when discussing the show. It's a bastardization of the original, but that's just what people that love the original material are going to have to deal with.

And this viewpoint is why we had to deal with things like Batman and Robin, Most of Sony's Spiderman offerings, and X-Men Origins: Wolverine and that God Awful Green Lantern. It's also the attitude that WB seems to have, and why quite a few of it's superhero movies have been panned, and bombed at the box office. Contrasting the Man of Steel with Batman Begins allows tyou to really see it. Nolan tried hard to stay close to the themes and feel of the comics, even if he wasn't spot on. With Man of Steel, they showed they just didn't understand what made Batman good, and tried to make it more like Nolan's batman movies without understanding WHY they worked.

 BaronIveagh wrote:
Contrasting the Man of Steel with Batman Begins allows tyou to really see it. Nolan tried hard to stay close to the themes and feel of the comics, even if he wasn't spot on. With Man of Steel, they showed they just didn't understand what made Batman good, and tried to make it more like Nolan's batman movies without understanding WHY they worked.

Well, Man of Steel WAS a Nolan movie, even if he didn't direct it. His idea, his story, and he called most of the shots, including signing off on Zod's death. Man of Steel had more nods to the source material than any representation of Supes that we've seen on screen. Most of the criticism came from people WHO DON'T ACTUALLY KNOW the source material, other than some vague idea formed by the Reeve movies and Silver Age-type material.

And this entire "Marvel good, Sony and WB bad" trope is both incredibly lazy and empty-headed. At least two-thirds of the Marvel movies have been utterly forgettable, TV-quality writing, churned out factory-style with all the flavor of unseasoned egg whites.