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I noticed one of the rubrics has a burning icon on his backpack, I'd presume it does something in game, maybe it gives the unit it's initial 5++ and then the mark makes it 4++, decurion makes them re roll 1s or on the other hand gives soulblaze or warp flame to the units weapons, can't wait to find out moar!!

some theory:

he knows 15 powers:
7 from the daemons of tzeentch discipline from curse of the wulfen
7 from the new CSM tzeentch discipline from wrath of magnus
aswell as gaze of magnus.

thats 15 in total. could be entirely possible.

the community page also mentions "his Crown grants him a respectable 4+ invulnerable save which combines with his Daemon of Tzeentch rule to grant re-rolls of ones. This can be bolstered further when included as part of a dedicated Thousand Sons Detachment (more on those later this week.)"

thinking about the detatchment. that might either grant and/or improve daemons of tzeentch reroll of 1's special rule or: improve the invulnerable save by 1 for example.
personally i am hoping for the latter. because that could grant a whole thousand son army a 3++ which would boost rubicae to more reliable levels aswell as terminators.

Does this make Magnus now the most powerful singular character in 40k tabletop?

Probably. The emperor would outdo him if he came back.

Do we have any rumours on how Ahirman will change? I could see him loosing the tzeentch restriction. That would make him a generic Masterly lvl 4 psyker that can fire the same witch fire 3 times, on a jetbike no less. Or am I setting myself up for dissapointment here? ^^

Whatever happens, we can expect Soulblaze and Warpflame to be everywhere.

LightKing wrote:
Does this make Magnus now the most powerful singular character in 40k tabletop?

As of right now, no idea but he's very well set up to be a walking psychic deathstar. Remember also that they only showed is base stats and unit type, no idea what Kind of wargear he has. His sword could be a +6 D weapon that makes template attacks in close combat for all we know.

I have a feeling that the next 48 hours will be exquisite as people show their hands and peeks are given.

 Mantle wrote:
I noticed one of the rubrics has a burning icon on his backpack, I'd presume it does something in game, maybe it gives the unit it's initial 5++ and then the mark makes it 4++, decurion makes them re roll 1s or on the other hand gives soulblaze or warp flame to the units weapons, can't wait to find out moar!!

On the Community Website (or maybe it was a WD screenshot from somewhere) the icon was specifically called out as an Icon of Flame.
Unless they've changed its rules, all it does is give Soul Blaze to the unit's bolt weapons.

Didn't the rumours say they were changing the icons and locis for Tzeentch?

 mrhappyface wrote:
Didn't the rumours say they were changing the icons and locis for Tzeentch?

So instead of the Tzeench sympbo, it will be the single eye of Magnus?
I kind of dig it.

Ang'grath is still the most powerful thing on the table as an individual model right? Him or the super Lord of change

StarFyre wrote:
Ang'grath is still the most powerful thing on the table as an individual model right? Him or the super Lord of change

Until someone brings S D.

StarFyre wrote:
Ang'grath is still the most powerful thing on the table as an individual model right? Him or the super Lord of change

Individual model? That probably goes to the Warlord Titan or the Eldar equivalent (or the Emperor Titan, if that old datasheet is still acceptable).

Sorry. I meant as characters. Not Titans or starships (manta)

 Roknar wrote:
I'm just attributing that to the usual changing-their-mind-mid-sentence attitude. Thinking they went a bit overboard there and now we happen to be the ones stuck in a more balanced cycle...again.

The Wraithlord has been T8 for seventeen years. It's a bit late for changing their minds/development cycles to be a part of this now.

I simply do not understand why GW is afraid of Toughnesses above 7. T7 is a bit like AV11, except S4 can hurt you. This means that a Wraithlord/Knight in HTH with a squad of Marines is safe, but Magnus can be hurt by basic Marines.

He's a fething Daemon Primarch. He should be able to wade through bolter fire and chainswords like rain off a Baneblade.

 nintura wrote:
Daemon flesh vs living concrete.

Is that meant to mean something?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Roknar wrote:
I'm just attributing that to the usual changing-their-mind-mid-sentence attitude. Thinking they went a bit overboard there and now we happen to be the ones stuck in a more balanced cycle...again.

The Wraithlord has been T8 for seventeen years. It's a bit late for changing their minds/development cycles to be a part of this now.

I simply do not understand why GW is afraid of Toughnesses above 7. T7 is a bit like AV11, except S4 can hurt you. This means that a Wraithlord/Knight in HTH with a squad of Marines is safe, but Magnus can be hurt by basic Marines.

How else are Space Wolves meant to look heroic kill him?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Roknar wrote:
I'm just attributing that to the usual changing-their-mind-mid-sentence attitude. Thinking they went a bit overboard there and now we happen to be the ones stuck in a more balanced cycle...again.

The Wraithlord has been T8 for seventeen years. It's a bit late for changing their minds/development cycles to be a part of this now.

I simply do not understand why GW is afraid of Toughnesses above 7. T7 is a bit like AV11, except S4 can hurt you. This means that a Wraithlord/Knight in HTH with a squad of Marines is safe, but Magnus can be hurt by basic Marines.

He's a Daemon Primarch. He should be able to wade through bolter fire and chainswords like rain off a Baneblade.

If he has the ability to get a 2+ rerolling 1's then he is miles above a wraithlord.

His toughness means jack all to my dark eldar yacht club Lack of GMC means he takes wounds on a 4+ lol.

Actually, I could see him at 360 points (3+6+0=9) if they really care that much about yhe sacred number thing. They may have left him as a FMC to keep the cost down :/.

 Red Corsair wrote:
His toughness means jack all to my dark eldar yacht club Lack of GMC means he takes wounds on a 4+ lol.

I really like the fact that a 10pt Lhamaean is hurting him on a 2+, and he better have Eternal Warrior or thats ID on 6's as well!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Roknar wrote:
I'm just attributing that to the usual changing-their-mind-mid-sentence attitude. Thinking they went a bit overboard there and now we happen to be the ones stuck in a more balanced cycle...again.

The Wraithlord has been T8 for seventeen years. It's a bit late for changing their minds/development cycles to be a part of this now.

I simply do not understand why GW is afraid of Toughnesses above 7. T7 is a bit like AV11, except S4 can hurt you. This means that a Wraithlord/Knight in HTH with a squad of Marines is safe, but Magnus can be hurt by basic Marines.

He's a fething Daemon Primarch. He should be able to wade through bolter fire and chainswords like rain off a Baneblade.

 nintura wrote:
Daemon flesh vs living concrete.

Is that meant to mean something?

Yea but after making the knight T8 and GMC their fears were confirmed anew and now they go the extra mile to make sure nothing gets that tough
But yea, agree with everything you said. At least things like the BT have WS 10 to offer at least some extra resistance.
I'm sure GW knows what they're doing. I'm sure he gets the old TSons rule where they can't be hurt by anything less than S5. Totally super duper sure...

 Red Corsair wrote:
His toughness means jack all to my dark eldar yacht club Lack of GMC means he takes wounds on a 4+ lol.

Only fools look at toughness as the primary measure of durability.

4++ baseline invul with built in rerolls and intensive psychic ability? In 99% of cases you could shoot 400 poison 4+ shots into him and he'd probably laugh it off.

He WILL have a rerollable 2++ He WILL have eternal warrior, if he was a GMC on top of that he'd be basically unstoppable. You on chance now is the 1-36 chance that a ranged D weapon hits him through invis and 6s him out.

A 6 on the D chart completly bypasses his 2++ rerollable. You don't get a save vs that. One 6 on the D-chart and he dies.
I think the only 40k unit that can survive a 6 on the D-chart is the khorne mower. It minimum 7 unsaveable wounds.

T7 vs T8 is a pretty big difference. There is lots and lots of stuff that can still wound T7.

They better represent Word Bearers right.

Anthony Renolds' trilogy should be taken as gospel, IMO. It lays out some clear and unique organization to stick to. Unfortunately it doesn't mesh with the CSM book, and since Traitor Legions is going to be a supplement to that I suspect that this supplement is just going to be a bunch of "x counts as troops, here are some warlord traits" garbage.

A Word Bearers' Dark Apostle should have the option to be a psyker at a minimum. If they can't even do that then I won't even bother.

I'm not holding my breath...

 Swampmist wrote:
Actually, I could see him at 360 points (3+6+0=9) if they really care that much about yhe sacred number thing. They may have left him as a FMC to keep the cost down :/.

If they cared about the sacred number stuff then his statline wouldn't almost entirely made up of Nurgle's sacred number.

ERJAK wrote:
Only fools look at toughness as the primary measure of durability.

Toughness is literally the primary measure of durability. After hitting a target the 'To Wound' roll is the first thing you do. A Daemon Primarch should never even have to worry about S4 and below. Only way to do that is to make him T8.

I get that all the invul saves and re-rolls will make him nigh indestructible, but bolters and Marine's punching him should never be something he even has to consider.

But thanks for calling me a fool. Stay classy!

 Roknar wrote:
A 6 on the D chart completly bypasses his 2++ rerollable. You don't get a save vs that. One 6 on the D-chart and he dies.
I think the only 40k unit that can survive a 6 on the D-chart is the khorne mower. It minimum 7 unsaveable wounds.

T7 vs T8 is a pretty big difference. There is lots and lots of stuff that can still wound T7.

That doesn't really negate the contention that Magnus is extremely durable, though, given that ANYTHING that gets 6'd by a D weapon is dead (With only the the larger Titans/GMCs and models protected by Void Shields avoiding that fate, and the former are still often greviously wounded even if not instagibbed)

And Magnus is a Flying Monstrous Creature, which doesn't seem to be getting a lot of attention here. So long as he stays in the air (and there's not much reason for him not to, unless you want him to go melee something to death), non-Skyfire units are snap-shooting at him. Between T7, a minimum of 4++ reroll 1s (and for all intents and purposes, probably most commonly a minimum of 3++ reroll 1s, or roughly a 78% negation of wounds), and often forcing snap-shots, I suspect Magnus will be quite difficult to actually put down in the game.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Toughness is literally the primary measure of durability. After hitting a target the 'To Wound' roll is the first thing you do. A Daemon Primarch should never even have to worry about S4 and below. Only way to do that is to make him T8.

Durability is based on Toughness and Wounds.
Survivability, on the other hand- being a flier does a lot for that, as does the invul save. The only flying creatures that are T8 are Anggrath, the Lord of Change character, and the Harridan. And being a flier, once he is in the air, a majority of the ranged D weapons in the game can't hit him, being blasts.

If he is 300+ points, he better come with EW and IWND. On top of a high Invulnerable save. Since he is a Primarch, he should come packing a number of things anyway, EW being one of them, so if he packs those those I will be okay.

What would be kind of cool is if, when he gets Perils of the Warp, instead of any of the negatives, something positive happens on all numbers. 1s can just be nothing gained, but also nothing lost.

Personally, I would hope he costs more than an Imperial Knight, as he will have far more impact in a game than a few guns the knight has.