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Whoa guys!

A normal daemon prince tricked out can come to 370pts!

From what we see of Magnus' statline, he is already much better than a bog standard daemon prince. I don't get where this 300+ thing is coming from, other than perhaps the mind achingly absurd price of a wraithknight.

I would be flabbergasted to see him at a price point less than 550. Don't get yourselves all excited for a 320pt Magnus. That will only lead to disappointment. I mean, i hope i'm wrong, but have you seen the cost of chaos LOW's?

I would not be surprised if he does not get Eternal Warrior. That way GKs can instadeath him, just as intended.

Russ will get T8 Eternal Warrior though. Cuz it's more heroic that way.

AncientSkarbrand wrote:
Whoa guys!

A normal daemon prince tricked out can come to 370pts!

From what we see of Magnus' statline, he is already much better than a bog standard daemon prince. I don't get where this 300+ thing is coming from, other than perhaps the mind achingly absurd price of a wraithknight.

I would be flabbergasted to see him at a price point less than 550. Don't get yourselves all excited for a 320pt Magnus. That will only lead to disappointment. I mean, i hope i'm wrong, but have you seen the cost of chaos LOW's?

Well, since he takes up the Lord of War slot, you still need to take a Sorcerer or Daemon Prince as an HQ. So he already comes at a heftier price than a straight kitted-out DP runs.

And I hope that he is a sign that they are going to start making the Chaos LoWs reasonably priced.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

AncientSkarbrand wrote:
Whoa guys!

A normal daemon prince tricked out can come to 370pts!

From what we see of Magnus' statline, he is already much better than a bog standard daemon prince. I don't get where this 300+ thing is coming from, other than perhaps the mind achingly absurd price of a wraithknight.

I would be flabbergasted to see him at a price point less than 550. Don't get yourselves all excited for a 320pt Magnus. That will only lead to disappointment. I mean, i hope i'm wrong, but have you seen the cost of chaos LOW's?

Well, since he takes up the Lord of War slot, you still need to take a Sorcerer or Daemon Prince as an HQ. So he already comes at a heftier price than a straight kitted-out DP runs.

And I hope that he is a sign that they are going to start making the Chaos LoWs reasonably priced.

A) I don't think adding the point price of a Sorcerer or DP is appropriate in costing Magnus, given both are at least somewhat decent for their points in their own right (and can potentially generate warp charges for Magnus, which is always useful).

B) Magnus is being introduced in a Campaign book, and I'd not only be surprised if he wasn't in at least one (if not more) formations, I'd be absolutely flabbergasted if taking him in that formation wasn't so mindbogglingly useful that you'd never see him appear any other way.

 Unusual Suspect wrote:

 Roknar wrote:
A 6 on the D chart completly bypasses his 2++ rerollable. You don't get a save vs that. One 6 on the D-chart and he dies.
I think the only 40k unit that can survive a 6 on the D-chart is the khorne mower. It minimum 7 unsaveable wounds.

T7 vs T8 is a pretty big difference. There is lots and lots of stuff that can still wound T7.

That doesn't really negate the contention that Magnus is extremely durable, though, given that ANYTHING that gets 6'd by a D weapon is dead (With only the the larger Titans/GMCs and models protected by Void Shields avoiding that fate, and the former are still often greviously wounded even if not instagibbed)

And Magnus is a Flying Monstrous Creature, which doesn't seem to be getting a lot of attention here. So long as he stays in the air (and there's not much reason for him not to, unless you want him to go melee something to death), non-Skyfire units are snap-shooting at him. Between T7, a minimum of 4++ reroll 1s (and for all intents and purposes, probably most commonly a minimum of 3++ reroll 1s, or roughly a 78% negation of wounds), and often forcing snap-shots, I suspect Magnus will be quite difficult to actually put down in the game.

I agree. I made a similar point earlier on.
I was adressing this part:
"He WILL have a rerollable 2++ He WILL have eternal warrior, if he was a GMC on top of that he'd be basically unstoppable. You on chance now is the 1-36 chance that a ranged D weapon hits him through invis and 6s him out."

For all his eternal warrior 2++ re-rollable shenanigans...he'll still die to a single well rolled D hit.
The 1 in 36 would be from his save, which wouldn't help in this case. It would be a 1 in 6 chance due to snapshotting a FMC or less if he becomes grounded.
Grounding him is going to be rare but that's not the point. Against D his extra protection isn't going to help beyond forcing snapshots.
And if he ever does get into a brawl with a knight, all bets are off.

So most games I expect people to ignore him and just focus on denying the witch. He'll be pretty darn resilient vs psychic shriek too since that allows invulnerables.
Still, should you ever want to charge something, he'll have to endure getting hit by just about everything since T7 allows so many weapons to potentially wound him.
You'd think a daemon primarch should be above fearing small arms fire.

Wow. Some...intense discussion.
If spoilers aren't up before Friday night/Saturday UK time, we'll know what's what then. Personally, I'm excited for this release and to become a Thousand Sons player.

Spoilers for rules. What a concept.

 Roknar wrote:

You'd think a daemon primarch should be above fearing small arms fire.

He's not a Nurgle Daemon Primarch, though.

Tzeentch is on the squishier end of the god scale, I thought.

Then Mortarion should be T9. And GUO's should be T8.

Then again so should some of the larger 'Nid beasties, but GW is petrified of T's above 7 for some reason.

And while I'm venting, all walkers should have Toughness values. Marine Dread/Chaos Dread/Deff Dread/Deff Jam - all T8. Kans/Sentinels T5. Defilers/Ad-Mech Walker T9. Stupid bloody rules... RAR!

 Roknar wrote:

 Unusual Suspect wrote:

 Roknar wrote:
A 6 on the D chart completly bypasses his 2++ rerollable. You don't get a save vs that. One 6 on the D-chart and he dies.
I think the only 40k unit that can survive a 6 on the D-chart is the khorne mower. It minimum 7 unsaveable wounds.

T7 vs T8 is a pretty big difference. There is lots and lots of stuff that can still wound T7.

That doesn't really negate the contention that Magnus is extremely durable, though, given that ANYTHING that gets 6'd by a D weapon is dead (With only the the larger Titans/GMCs and models protected by Void Shields avoiding that fate, and the former are still often greviously wounded even if not instagibbed)

And Magnus is a Flying Monstrous Creature, which doesn't seem to be getting a lot of attention here. So long as he stays in the air (and there's not much reason for him not to, unless you want him to go melee something to death), non-Skyfire units are snap-shooting at him. Between T7, a minimum of 4++ reroll 1s (and for all intents and purposes, probably most commonly a minimum of 3++ reroll 1s, or roughly a 78% negation of wounds), and often forcing snap-shots, I suspect Magnus will be quite difficult to actually put down in the game.

I agree. I made a similar point earlier on.
I was adressing this part:
"He WILL have a rerollable 2++ He WILL have eternal warrior, if he was a GMC on top of that he'd be basically unstoppable. You on chance now is the 1-36 chance that a ranged D weapon hits him through invis and 6s him out."

For all his eternal warrior 2++ re-rollable shenanigans...he'll still die to a single well rolled D hit.
The 1 in 36 would be from his save, which wouldn't help in this case. It would be a 1 in 6 chance due to snapshotting a FMC or less if he becomes grounded.
Grounding him is going to be rare but that's not the point. Against D his extra protection isn't going to help beyond forcing snapshots.
And if he ever does get into a brawl with a knight, all bets are off.

So most games I expect people to ignore him and just focus on denying the witch. He'll be pretty darn resilient vs psychic shriek too since that allows invulnerables.
Still, should you ever want to charge something, he'll have to endure getting hit by just about everything since T7 allows so many weapons to potentially wound him.
You'd think a daemon primarch should be above fearing small arms fire.

It's 1/36 if he doesn't have a save. You didn't read the math right, to d out magnus in the air the wraithknight has to roll a 6 to hit and a 6 to wound which is a 1/36 chance. Including non-6 results would be silly as even with 3++ rerolling ones the damage would be inconsequential.

Also, to the person who said a walker should be t9, do you kbow why GW hates t8+? Because that level of toughness is just short of immune to being hurt. At t9 t10 the only cost effective ways to kill something are with grav, gauss, poison, and wounding on other stats. Even Lascannons are largely useless against t8-t10 because of how prohibitive the cost of them is. Having anything be T9 or T10 baseline is silly and incredibly bad for the game, screw the fluff in this case.

It's pretty shocking he isn't T8. He is a gawd dang DEMON PRIMARCH! The fact that a bolter could wound him is insulting.

I hope he comes with every other stupid USR to make him more survivable.

 SickSix wrote:
It's pretty shocking he isn't T8. He is a gawd dang DEMON PRIMARCH! The fact that a bolter could wound him is insulting.

I hope he comes with every other stupid USR to make him more survivable.

He is a tzeentch psyker. He will be completely impossible to kill outside of an incredibly fortunate 6 to hit 6 to D which pretty much nothing in the game survives anyway.

Looks like the necron pylon finally found a use...

I think T7 seems appropriate

Came for the rumours, stayed for the tears.

This has been posted?

Via Markain - Gw-Fanworld.net / 4chan

Your link appears to be busted, WH.

Blocked?

http://i.4cdn.org/tg/1479984237042.jpg

The host is 4chan I guess, and I cannot upload it because my tablet is somehow incompatible with Dakka's upload function

It is a pic of the Wrath of Magnus CE

Think its strange that hes not gargantuan and still could be stomped to death be either a WK or IK :/ Hope hes rather "cheap" in points then.

Source http://boards.4chan.org/tg/thread/50367623

http://boards.4chan.org/tg/thread/50367623#p50374177

here ya go

ERJAK wrote:

Spoiler:

 Roknar wrote:

 Unusual Suspect wrote:

 Roknar wrote:
A 6 on the D chart completly bypasses his 2++ rerollable. You don't get a save vs that. One 6 on the D-chart and he dies.
I think the only 40k unit that can survive a 6 on the D-chart is the khorne mower. It minimum 7 unsaveable wounds.

T7 vs T8 is a pretty big difference. There is lots and lots of stuff that can still wound T7.

That doesn't really negate the contention that Magnus is extremely durable, though, given that ANYTHING that gets 6'd by a D weapon is dead (With only the the larger Titans/GMCs and models protected by Void Shields avoiding that fate, and the former are still often greviously wounded even if not instagibbed)

And Magnus is a Flying Monstrous Creature, which doesn't seem to be getting a lot of attention here. So long as he stays in the air (and there's not much reason for him not to, unless you want him to go melee something to death), non-Skyfire units are snap-shooting at him. Between T7, a minimum of 4++ reroll 1s (and for all intents and purposes, probably most commonly a minimum of 3++ reroll 1s, or roughly a 78% negation of wounds), and often forcing snap-shots, I suspect Magnus will be quite difficult to actually put down in the game.

I agree. I made a similar point earlier on.
I was adressing this part:
"He WILL have a rerollable 2++ He WILL have eternal warrior, if he was a GMC on top of that he'd be basically unstoppable. You on chance now is the 1-36 chance that a ranged D weapon hits him through invis and 6s him out."

For all his eternal warrior 2++ re-rollable shenanigans...he'll still die to a single well rolled D hit.
The 1 in 36 would be from his save, which wouldn't help in this case. It would be a 1 in 6 chance due to snapshotting a FMC or less if he becomes grounded.
Grounding him is going to be rare but that's not the point. Against D his extra protection isn't going to help beyond forcing snapshots.
And if he ever does get into a brawl with a knight, all bets are off.

So most games I expect people to ignore him and just focus on denying the witch. He'll be pretty darn resilient vs psychic shriek too since that allows invulnerables.
Still, should you ever want to charge something, he'll have to endure getting hit by just about everything since T7 allows so many weapons to potentially wound him.
You'd think a daemon primarch should be above fearing small arms fire.

It's 1/36 if he doesn't have a save. You didn't read the math right, to d out magnus in the air the wraithknight has to roll a 6 to hit and a 6 to wound which is a 1/36 chance. Including non-6 results would be silly as even with 3++ rerolling ones the damage would be inconsequential.

Also, to the person who said a walker should be t9, do you kbow why GW hates t8+? Because that level of toughness is just short of immune to being hurt. At t9 t10 the only cost effective ways to kill something are with grav, gauss, poison, and wounding on other stats. Even Lascannons are largely useless against t8-t10 because of how prohibitive the cost of them is. Having anything be T9 or T10 baseline is silly and incredibly bad for the game, screw the fluff in this case.

Ah, sorry, my bad. I was reading it like you thought the 2++ would make him hard to kill vs D, assuming a 6 on the D chart. That would also be a 1 in 36 chance to get through his save if he could save that. Or 1 in 6 to hit and then die.
You are of course right. It's a 1 in 36 chance to outright kill a flyer with a D hit from the ground.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, hmm. I don't think I'll be pikcing up wrath of magnus as a limited. The psychic cards looks sexy but I'm assuming the rules will be in those floppy softbacks and those look pretty meh to me. Especially the demon part. That'll be more like a flyer with only 22 pages. That's what the leak said right?

LOL.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Then Mortarion should be T9. And GUO's should be T8.

Then again so should some of the larger 'Nid beasties, but GW is petrified of T's above 7 for some reason.

And while I'm venting, all walkers should have Toughness values. Marine Dread/Chaos Dread/Deff Dread/Deff Jam - all T8. Kans/Sentinels T5. Defilers/Ad-Mech Walker T9. Stupid bloody rules... RAR!

Kans/Sentinels going from AV10 to T5 is a pretty big drop in their survivability against small arms. Pulse Rifles go from needing 5s to glance and 6s to pen to 4s to wound with that change.

hahaha not a bad video

Hehehe, a parody of Apple?

 angelofvengeance wrote:
LOL.

haha genius video

Perhaps the Reason Magnus is T7 and NOT a GMC is Because
1. GW Saw how OP the Wraithknight was and Vowed NEVER to do that again
2. GW can see that some people will think "Magnus? A Daemon Primarch? Hes gonna be IMPOSSIBLE to kill" and so Made him T7 so S4 weapons can hurt him and Not a GMC so Poison, Fleshbane etc works against him
3. GW is Removing GMCs in 8th

Just my £0.02

Fleshbane works on GMC's anyway.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
[

Kans/Sentinels going from AV10 to T5 is a pretty big drop in their survivability against small arms. Pulse Rifles go from needing 5s to glance and 6s to pen to 4s to wound with that change.

But then they don't get crippled by a pen roll and keep marching?