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Yeah but have you looked at the 'multiple kits' the Shadowsword actually comes with? The all look very similar.

There's the long barrel.
The very long barrel with the cap.
The short barrel.
The short barrel with the cap.
The short barrel with no cap, but with another part that the makes the very long barrel very long.

And then the Stormlord, which Guard players will be using parts from to make the Punisher until the Punisher gets a kit (assuming the Punisher gets a kit).

At the end of the day, I can't wait to get this Codex - so much stuff to steal for 40K Revisited - but the current situation with miniature releases is pathetic, and needs to be changed. GW's secrecy is one thing, but when we get a new Codex and don't even know if we'll get models to represent our new entries (let alone when we're getting them), that's going a bit beyond the stupid 3 month window bull$hit. There needs to be a line drawn, or a mission statement that says either "We will release kits for everything" or "We won't be doing kits for all entries". Either statement is a win for the players, because it at least gives us something to work with.

BYE

Leggy wrote:Modelling maths

Chimera chassis + 1/2 litre coca-cola bottle + imagination = Deathstrike

I wish actually building the thing could be that simple

Forget that.

Chimera chassis + real July 4th rocket + this lighter = I win or your army literally gets blown off the table.

Ozymandias wrote:I think that even if the IG codex gave out free bj's HBMC would still be grumpy. "What, no seconds?"

In the most polite manner possible:

Bite me.

Ozymandias wrote:Damn dude, you are getting a new codex with lots of pretty extras and it looks like it will be actually competitive and you're still bitching about not knowing when the models will come out. We don't know half of what is going on still, save it till we know when (if) Wave 2+ is coming out.

I'm not complaining about the Codex (other than Grenade Launchers and Mortars still appearing to be complete junk units, and the probably need for special characters that this Codex will create, but that's less of a Guard issue and more of a 'current 40K design' issue, so I'll not go into it here).

My complaint is that the Wave system does not work. Actually, no, I tell a lie here. The Wave system works perfectly. The Wave system combined with GW's completely unecessary levels of secrecy is what doesn't work.

It seems that between the choices of "Not teling us what's coming" vs "Not telling us when something's coming" has been simply combined into "Not telling us what's coming or when it's coming". That's not helpful.

BYE

Well, what can WE do about it?

No, I am not being sarcastic here.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Yeah but have you looked at the 'multiple kits' the Shadowsword actually comes with? The all look very similar.

There's the long barrel.
The very long barrel with the cap.
The short barrel.
The short barrel with the cap.
The short barrel with no cap, but with another part that the makes the very long barrel very long.

For the Leman Russ variants, this level of distinction would be almost satisfactory. You'd need 1-2 bits for each of the major turret options, they'd need be no more different than the Predator Annihilator and Destructor. It would be doable with fairly little physical space required on the sprue, I'd imagine.

Well the Commissar smiley in your sig certainly brings a few ideas to mind.

BYE

Lord Solar Plexus wrote:

Narlix wrote:
I will be honest, if its 90 points with just the multi-laser,and door heavy bolters ( the ones that will never shoot since they are strength 5 and it will never move less than 12 inchs), Its still only gojng to carry 12 guys who are not going to assault, and even with ap 3 hell guns it's still only str 3.

Well, it is rumoured to be a fast skimmer. Current Guard is decent at shooting stuff but horrible in the assault phase and lacking mobility/speed. Ogryns will address the former, and fast skimmers will address the latter (as will cheaper Chimeras and lumbering behemoths, albeit to a lesser extent). I'm pretty sure ST's will still be able to pack 2 special weapons. This means that the Valk will be able to shoot more guns than a tank and that the passengers have a chance to attack places one would never dream of before.

Fast skimmer or not, it would still be over priced at 90 points, The storm Troopers even with plasma agianst an meq your talking 4 to 5 wounds, give a 4+ cover save so 2 to 3 dead, thats alot of dead marines,but your talking 130ish points in Storm Troopers another 90ish points of Valk to kill 48 points of marines ( or same number of Orks math is the same).

For the same points you are spending on a valk and full stormie squad you can get two squads of regular IG guys with heavy bolter, plasma gun and 2 chimeras with heavy stubbers. So here is the question 6 multi laser, 6 heavy stubber, 12 heavy bolter, 4 plasma gun, 32 las gun shot at BS3 or 16 hell gun 4 plasma at BS4, one of these options will kill alot more stuff, in a much better way, with more versatlity, and almost as much moblity. hell even without the 32 las gun shots it still kills more than the Stormies and valk.

Now don't get me wrong, Stormies can be useful just not as suicidal one use units. This is why i think the Valk is going to have to be in the 50 to 60 point range to be useable. at that price it really only has the multi laser, its not twin-linked. lets compare it to a wave serpent, the wave serpent averages 110 ish points , it has a twin-linked catapult ( def weapon)and the main weapon in this case bright lances or scatter lasers are also twin linked. The armor is the same but the wave serpent has the little shield thing, and a slew of upgrade options , including one that makes it land , and another that lets it move 36 inches in one turn, The waveserpent can also be taken by deacated assault troops.

Basicly what im saying is the wave serpent is the closest thing in the game to the suspected valk, its weapon load out, options, and surviablity are better but people keep wanting to point them almost the same , it just dosen't make good sense.

Just to add fuel to the complaining fire (Because what would the internet be without bitching?)

Not only do we not know what is in the next waves (And thus, don't know if the models we want will EVER get made), there's no way to know what Forge World will make, either (as usual).

What I mean is, it's almost assumed that Forge World will pick up the slack concerning models GW doesn't make (ESPECIALLY Guard). But we don't know how long it'll take, and there's not word one until the damn thing is available. More so, I'm certain GW won't let Forge World do a tank they have slated for a 2nd or 3rd wave.

So even for those of us who can practically(as practical as FW ever is) rely on Forge World to fill in the gaps, we're likely to end up waiting for months upon months, or longer, still.

Yeah, I like having something to look forward to, also. But honestly, I stopped looking forward to 'vaporware' when Duke Nuken Forever entered it's second decade with no evidence of development. I'm NOT excited about looking forward to what's in the "Mystery Box", or playing a guessing game when drafting up conversions or deciding on new Forge World purchases. The last thing I want is to spend weeks converting up a kickass Colossus battery, only for GW to turn around and drop one in my lap that's 10x cooler.


But I'm just playing devil's advocate here. I'm REALLY looking forward to this release. It could be bigger, but I'll take whats I can gets.

Agamemnon2 wrote:For the Leman Russ variants, this level of distinction would be almost satisfactory. You'd need 1-2 bits for each of the major turret options, they'd need be no more different than the Predator Annihilator and Destructor. It would be doable with fairly little physical space required on the sprue, I'd imagine.

Eh, actually, you know what? You're right. There ain't much difference between Russes and especially the Predator, so I'll retract my comments there on the Shadowsword kit (although some do look VERY similar, two in particular that use the short barrel).

BYE

I think Forge World is more or less out of the question. Maybe the odd release in between but for the most part they are working according to an actual plan! Namely churning out models to go with their books.

Now if only those fudpuckers would pick up the fugging phone or check their inbox for once they'd be held in higher esteem.

AlexCage wrote:What I mean is, it's almost assumed that Forge World will pick up the slack concerning models GW doesn't make (ESPECIALLY Guard). But we don't know how long it'll take, and there's not word one until the damn thing is available. More so, I'm certain GW won't let Forge World do a tank they have slated for a 2nd or 3rd wave.

It's certainly not in any way expected. Forge World has never really busied itself with picking up the main range's slack. At best, their releases have peripherally tied in with changes in the main range (IA3 came out a little before the Tau Empire codex).

Sure, Forge World loves IG, but there's no grounds to assume they're going to release anything not explicitly related to their own schedule (which includes finally wrapping up the Siege of Vraks). What I expect to see from them in the near future is Daemons, Khornate and Nurglish, and possibly one last Krieg unit or something to do with Daemonhunters. What we won't be seeing is them stepping up to make a Bane Wolf, Colossus or Mogul Kamir.

I'm going to somewhat agree with HBMC. The problem with the uncertainty is that players are left with the problem of wondering if they should convert stuff that's not available, or just wait 9 months to get a proper model.

It was like the Waveserpent. Everybody that waited felt stupid when it took five years.

One the other side, those that converted Battlewagons when the Ork book came out now have a model on the shelf.

For minor variants it's not that big of a deal, but simply having GW state:
"this is in the pipeline", "This is being considered," and "this is a long term project" would help gamers out a bit.

One the whole though, I like more units, more options, and more fun.

I bet (!!) that there won't be regular plastic kits for the Hydra and Medusa variants and we have to rely on FW to get those options.
I mean, in the space marine codex Gw reintroduced all these weapon options for the dreadnaught but didn't bother with an updated dreadnaught box at all. And that was for the space marines.
Do you really think Gw will sacrifice one of their precious wave spots for stuff like medusas? A tank that maybe two or three people will buy when they hit the shelf in plastic?

Nah...

But I agree that the wave release doesn't hit me as genius as some months ago. Until now, GW released just much, much stuff for the orks and squeezed out some ugly dark elf models. The Wave 2 of the space marines seems to be a bit off, too. Maybe for planetfall in autumn.

Greets
Schepp himself

It still seems a little too much. I know that's a weird comment, but I'm really specifically talking about the Ordnance weapons.

I mean, there's the Griffon, then there's a slightly different Griffon that's AP3. Then there's a Griffon that's S10 with D3 barrage hits. Then there's the Basilisk. Then there's the Demolisher, and then a Demolisher with less armour but +12" of range. Then there's a big Flamer, or a big Flamer that's poison. Why even have a Eradicator Nova Cannon when it appears to do nothing anything else can't do, but better? And why have a Hydra when you have an Exterminator? I mean, it has greater range, and let's assume for a moment that it has two Hydra Autocannons (and therefore fires the same amount of shots)... why take it on an AV12 platform form you can take it on an AV14 platform? Will it have special rules vs Flyers/Skimmers? Will it ignore Skimmers Moving Fast 5+ save? Will it mean more in Planet Strike?

Aside from points values, doesn't it all seem a little redundant?

And the Deathstrike in 40K is still stupid. Sorry. It is. If anything should be Apoc, then the Deathstrike should be it.

And can we please please please please get a plastic Hydra kit (I love that model!).

BYE

On the plus side, we know whom to blame.

Robin Cruddace.

H.B.M.C. wrote:It still seems a little too much. I know that's a weird comment, but I'm really specifically talking about the Ordnance weapons.
Aside from points values, doesn't it all seem a little redundant?

BYE

Who are you and what have you done with H.B.M.C.?

Greets
Schepp himself

P.S. I agree, though. Gw scares me a bit with the speed their long-term-plan pendulum swings from codex bland (Dark Angels) to codex variants within, what, two years? How many pages are there supposed to be to explain all the variants to little jervis? Or got this plan cancelled,too?

Little Jervis probably grew his hair long, got interested in girls and trashed all his models

Don't worry. I fully expect we'll get a nice 3-4 page Wargear Section that contains lots of nice drawings and diagrams of weapons... and lots of page references to other parts of the books for rules.

BYE

holy gak 0_o

S5 AP- 20 shots

please tell me this is fake?
take 3 of em and watch ork players cry XD
now, someone was on about broken things? lol

i may have to start a guard army.

deathstrike. If i can take three then so doing a guard army full of guys in white lab coats and black goggles.
they are just there to watch the bomb.

JD21290 wrote:holy gak 0_o

S5 AP- 20 shots

please tell me this is fake?
take 3 of em and watch ork players cry XD
now, someone was on about broken things? lol

i may have to start a guard army.

so 60 shots
30 hit
20 wounds
17 dead orks
10 dead orks in cover.
not that many.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Ozymandias wrote:I think that even if the IG codex gave out free bj's HBMC would still be grumpy. "What, no seconds?"

In the most polite manner possible:

Bite me.

Oh, so maybe that's what you'd prefer the new IG codex to do... (I keed I keed)

Ozymandias wrote:Damn dude, you are getting a new codex with lots of pretty extras and it looks like it will be actually competitive and you're still bitching about not knowing when the models will come out. We don't know half of what is going on still, save it till we know when (if) Wave 2+ is coming out.

I'm not complaining about the Codex (other than Grenade Launchers and Mortars still appearing to be complete junk units, and the probably need for special characters that this Codex will create, but that's less of a Guard issue and more of a 'current 40K design' issue, so I'll not go into it here).

My complaint is that the Wave system does not work. Actually, no, I tell a lie here. The Wave system works perfectly. The Wave system combined with GW's completely unecessary levels of secrecy is what doesn't work.

It seems that between the choices of "Not teling us what's coming" vs "Not telling us when something's coming" has been simply combined into "Not telling us what's coming or when it's coming". That's not helpful.

BYE

We are commenting on a leaked pdf of the new IG reference sheet. GW has said NOTHING about IG releases so far. It's a bit premature to say they haven't said anything about the IG release schedule when they haven't really said much at all about the IG codex period. Plus we've seen models of some of the variants so I'm a bit confused how you seem to think they won't be released.

Polonius wrote:I'm going to somewhat agree with HBMC. The problem with the uncertainty is that players are left with the problem of wondering if they should convert stuff that's not available, or just wait 9 months to get a proper model.

It was like the Waveserpent. Everybody that waited felt stupid when it took five years.

One the other side, those that converted Battlewagons when the Ork book came out now have a model on the shelf.

For minor variants it's not that big of a deal, but simply having GW state:
"this is in the pipeline", "This is being considered," and "this is a long term project" would help gamers out a bit.

One the whole though, I like more units, more options, and more fun.

Again, why don't we wait till they actually announce the new IG Codex and do a write up. For all we know, in the designers notes on the IG codex they may say, "Boy, we can't wait to release these new LR variants!!"

Enjoy your leaked pdf and just chill until we hear more.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

skkipper wrote:

JD21290 wrote:holy gak 0_o

S5 AP- 20 shots

please tell me this is fake?
take 3 of em and watch ork players cry XD
now, someone was on about broken things? lol

i may have to start a guard army.

so 60 shots
30 hit
20 wounds
17 dead orks
10 dead orks in cover.
not that many.

If your entire heavy support section can't down a minimum sized squad of Orks in a round, you've got problems...

Still more then a Pie plate usually took out.

so 60 shots
30 hit
20 wounds
17 dead orks
10 dead orks in cover.
not that many.

ok, name me 3 HS tanks that can cause that ammount of fire?

im willing to bet money on alot of guard players using them, and alot of ork and nid losses to guard

Don't forgot to add in 3 heavy bolters on each tank!

Ozymandias wrote:Again, why don't we wait till they actually announce the new IG Codex and do a write up. For all we know, in the designers notes on the IG codex they may say, "Boy, we can't wait to release these new LR variants!!"

Mate, they just had an Open Day where they showed off new models but wouldn't even state which ones were being released when the Guard Codex comes out. And open day. Did you miss that?

BYE

Dexy wrote:Don't forgot to add in 3 heavy bolters on each tank!

And a Pintle Heavy Stubber. That's 29 St5 and 3 St4 Shots a turn per tank.

I think the KGB was more Open than GW's Open day.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Ozymandias wrote:Again, why don't we wait till they actually announce the new IG Codex and do a write up. For all we know, in the designers notes on the IG codex they may say, "Boy, we can't wait to release these new LR variants!!"

Mate, they just had an Open Day where they showed off new models but wouldn't even state which ones were being released when the Guard Codex comes out. And open day. Did you miss that?

BYE

Welcome to playing orks and tyranids. Sometimes you just have to assume that a couple of straws and a dremmel will be your only option.


Especially when the whole thing is still months away anyway. You need to go outside, start a garden or something. Get some patience.