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Ok couple things I have picked up on, not neccesarily new, but interesting points to discuss

GKs can pay for +str or rending for their storm bolters

Im thinking the rending rounds are psycannon bolts, the same upgrade in the current codex, but instead of ignoring inv saves, rends. On one side, AP5 ignoring invulnerable save (the original rounds) is good against daemons, and Rending is useless against daemons (the rumoured rounds), but on the other, GK do kill non daemon heretics too. The +str is either false, or another special type of round. What is intriguing is that added strength to a stormbolter is beneficial when fighting daemons, but psycannon rounds already existed to slay daemons. The +str is anti daemon, the rending rounds are maybe designed to be anti chaos marine? Who can tell. Whats worrying is this whole rending rumour. Rending could have actually totally replaced "Ignores Invulnerable", and that would make sense of the rending storm bolter rounds, they are the old Psycannon rounds, but instead of ignoring ++, are rending. As I said earlier, doesnt make sense when fighting daemons, rending is useless against them.

Nemesis Force Weapons can be upgrade as well (increase initiative is one option).

So I suspect all gk start with swords, and for maybe 10ppm (points per model) they may upgrade that sword to a halberd, which is increased Initiative. A different rumour was that swords were 2+ str, halberds were 2+ ini, but who knows, rumours say NFW no longer grant extra strength, which is a shame, but can cause instant death. More or less rumours on NFWs are quite cloudy. Im quite perplexed as to what NFW do globally anymore, are they extra str, do they rend, or are they instant death on a 6? They couldnt be could they? Time will tell.

GKT can mix and match Nemeis Force Weapons and TT/SS and get psy weapons as well.

Wuut? What psyweapon? I dont believe THIS rumour for a second, there is no supporting evidence of a 3rd optional weapon, besides NFW and TH.

Any GK unit can once per game gate of infinity with no deviation in the movement face and can shoot, but not assault. This could still be changed to become the new Grey Knight Teleport Attack and moved to Fast Attack slot.

Books are in print, so this rumour is also probably fake, although it sounds super useful. Nothing like dropping a purgation squad 24 away from some out of cover ork boys and mowing them down.

All GKs Nemesis Force Weapons are Force Weapons and no longer Str 6.

Doubt it.

All GKs cause Deep Striking units to mishap if placed within 6 inches of any Grey Knight unit.

I believe this one. No more DOA blood angels or Herioc interventions.

There are no more stormtroopers in the codex except for as a inquisitorial henchmen. There is a way to get 2 wound terminators as troops in the codex rocking a 4++ and all basic grey knight troops come with a storm bolter and nemesis force weapon that counds as a power weapon but no bouns to strength and are all psy.

Troops with power weapons? No. What I do know is terminators will have power weapons AND whatever the global bonus from NFW is: either 2+ str, 2+ ini or force weapon, its unsure.

Holocaust is now 12 inch range large blast

Dont think so, holocaust was always known to hit the TAGK who cast it as well as foes. There has to be a price? Earlier rumours said that holocaust ignores inv saves and has the same stats as an incinerator, but large blast. Holocaust used to be able to be used in close combat, but now I reckon its ranged only, and cancels any storm bolter firing, which is really a very risky thing, if you miss with the blast, you have wasted it. Obviously the holocaust will be more powerful the more termies are in the squad, otherwise 3 man (5 man if not) squads of termies will be running around throwing holocaust, while bigger ones will be doing the storm bolter shooting. TAGK will be able to assault after using holocaust because they are relentless. If it is range 12, it will be much more potent than it used to be, indeed.

All GKs are psyker and their powers act very much in the same way as Psyker Battle Squad.


Truth. Lest there be to way to much reason to take 5 man squads over 10 man.

Brother-Captain Stern has Eternal Warrior and his attacks can remove models from play.

It always has been, it always will be. Truth.

Mystic is now only a teleport homer

Leafblower rest in peace. Truth.


All GK vehicles are immune to Shaken and Stunned (Sacred Hull). Stormraven is not a dedicated Transport. All GK vehicles are psykers with LD 10

Blessed is now a vehicle psychic power that picks one facing and raises the AV by 2 to a max of 14GKs have access to GK Command Squads giving them access to Apothecaries (FNP)


No shaken no stunned sounds OP, but then again, rumours have constantly supported this. I say truth, even if it is in the form of a pricey vehicle upgrade.

My only question is, can you bless dreadnoughts Bless the front armour yes please. You must have to cast it each turn, otherwise DNs would be unstoppable in close combat.

Vindicare has unlimited ammo for all special shots.

Truth, vindis were slightly useless last edition.

Hammerhand- justicar doubbles strength after modifications so is str 10

I believe this is the new response to tankhammer 40,000, if every GK squad has this psychic ability available, all enemy vehicles beware, no vehicle to date is safe from close combat strength 10. Throw out the melta, bring in the Justicar. Truth (hopefully)

Vindicare assassin is 0-3 and have the special rounds that are quite nasty---BS 8

Truth, although their 4d6 penetration rounds dont sound quite right. 0-3 is the new trend (see: sanguinary priests) and I reckon each assassin will be 75 points. Pricey, but they have potential.



Thats all I got time for, but yeah, hope that gives people something to think about.

GK's are going to have some significant problems against vehicles of AV 12 or higher. Autocannons can work well against AV 12 mainly because they are cheap and tend to come in autocannon-only units. Taking a 2 psycannon, or worse yet single psycannon, unit to shoot at a grav tank will tie up a lot of points and a large fraction of your army compared to a HWT or Hydra doing the same.

Rending isn't going to be that good against heavy vehicles, although I would be scared of taking anything AV 10 or 11 near rending stormbolters. I play Necrons, who also need 6s to harm vehicles, and taking 8 shots for one rend isn't so great a return.

Dont think so, holocaust was always known to hit the TAGK who cast it as well as foes. There has to be a price?

The price to pay is there, it´s called point cost!
I hardly think there will be any self wounding powers like holocaust wounding own troops (unless bad scatter does it).
It doesnt make sense to apply grot-mechanics to highly outnumbered troops where every mini loss is felt badly.

Also, the S5 stormbolters do not sound logical at all.
If this is true I expect the point cost to be a token one, maybe 10-20p for an entire squad at most.
S4 to S5 stormboletrs dont do much except against vehicles from behind.
S4 bolters would cause some 6 wounds on T4 opponents whereas a S5 stormbolter squad would cause some 8 wounds instead, hardly anything that warrans a big point cost.
Rending bolter shots would definitely be better.

Although if this is coupled with that rumored gate ability I can see S5 botlers do wonders against vehicle AV10 behinds.

Well, no storm troopers. Guess my guard army will be under way then. Pity that they didnt keep the inquisition.

SO now here is the big question, which storm raven will be better? The BA one or the GK one?

Looking forward to seeing the new book and breaking out a full GK army instead of using only a GK term squad allied with BA.

Now what to do with my LRs that are painted red...

That is a real bummer about not being able to field inquisitorial storm troopers... but these new henchmen sound cool, and it also sounds like there's going to be a plastic kit for them... which would lend themselves to good conversions for IG armies as well.

Is there a mock up of a army list circulating? I know there are a lot of rumors but it seems to be fairly consistent now.

Pyriel- wrote:

Dont think so, holocaust was always known to hit the TAGK who cast it as well as foes. There has to be a price?

The price to pay is there, it´s called point cost!
I hardly think there will be any self wounding powers like holocaust wounding own troops (unless bad scatter does it).
It doesnt make sense to apply grot-mechanics to highly outnumbered troops where every mini loss is felt badly.

Historical precedent and flavour, perhaps? Holocaust is meant to be a barely controlled ravening storm of energy, which the GK using it is trained to summon around himself - or it was last time I checked.

tldr wrote:That is a real bummer about not being able to field inquisitorial storm troopers... but these new henchmen sound cool, and it also sounds like there's going to be a plastic kit for them... which would lend themselves to good conversions for IG armies as well.

Is there a mock up of a army list circulating? I know there are a lot of rumors but it seems to be fairly consistent now.

well you could make a IG army with a inquisiter vibe right? its not as fun but atleast you wil be able to play with your mini's and you get more tanks. i play xenos but i understand that its a bummer when your army becomes something like squats (an GW employed sniper shoots me in the back of the head but before i die i press submit )

Historical precedent and flavour, perhaps? Holocaust is meant to be a barely controlled ravening storm of energy, which the GK using it is trained to summon around himself - or it was last time I checked.

Precedent works both ways.
GW dumbing down rules anyone?
Previously BA devastators came with a risk due to their "rage" rule, last tiem I checked GW dumbed it down and removed the risks.
Before we had guess range barrages that could hurt you, now you place them where you want them to be and risk hurting yourself only if you choose to do so close to your own troops.

Ergo, I feel there will be no grot-rules put into the GK codex.
Holocaust ought to be pretty safe unless you choose to place it in a dumb spot, kind of like deep striking near a board edge, if it screws up, suit yourself.

New rumors up and in red on the first page.....regarding some GK libby stuff....and my FAVORITE Assassin is getting the treatment.

WRRRRRYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

I'm liking this "Inverse Gate" hoping that one stays in.

Lowering T sounds quite deadly, thank goodness we cant ally anymore

Lasguns would do some serious damage with that

Indeed, Lowering toughness, With these rumored S5 stormbolter shells sounds deadly as well, depending on the amount of T lowered

DA's Forever wrote:Indeed, Lowering toughness, With these rumored S5 stormbolter shells sounds deadly as well, depending on the amount of T lowered

Imagine heavy flamers....with lowered T opponents. No roll to hit, anything but 1s to wound...yikes.

AgeOfEgos wrote:

DA's Forever wrote:Indeed, Lowering toughness, With these rumored S5 stormbolter shells sounds deadly as well, depending on the amount of T lowered

Imagine heavy flamers....with lowered T opponents. No roll to hit, anything but 1s to wound...yikes.

Oooh that's almost painful to think about

DA's Forever wrote:I'm liking this "Inverse Gate" hoping that one stays in.

I'm not. If they'd created something like the old 2E power (with two portals units can move through) I'd like it, but now they're just ripping off the Monolith to go with ripping off Divine Guidance.

AlexHolker wrote:

DA's Forever wrote:I'm liking this "Inverse Gate" hoping that one stays in.

I'm not. If they'd created something like the old 2E power (with two portals units can move through) I'd like it, but now they're just ripping off the Monolith to go with ripping off Divine Guidance.

depends if it happens on the shooting phase.

I can imagine deep striking DK's firing their stormbolters, and them ripping them back to the librarian in the same turn.

Thats OP, I think the best used way would be in shooting or moving. Using it in assault phase like you said would be OP in my opinion

Lowering Mephiston's toughness would be quite mean.

axeman1n wrote:Lowering Mephiston's toughness would be quite awsome.

Fixed.

Its all good. If they say the books are in print, then it wion't be long. Psychically powered troops would be sweet. And I'm trusting that they will have Anti-tank capability of some sort in the list.

wolfshadow wrote:

axeman1n wrote:Lowering Mephiston's toughness would be quite UNBELIEVABLY AWSOME .

Fixed.

Fixed-er

DA's Forever wrote:

wolfshadow wrote:

axeman1n wrote:Lowering Mephiston's toughness would be quite UNBELIEVABLY AWESOME .

Fixed.

Fixed-er

Fix-est.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Couple people are missing the point that if hammer hand is available to squads or justicars, anti tank is not going to be an issue.

Jaon wrote:

DA's Forever wrote:

wolfshadow wrote:

axeman1n wrote:Lowering Mephiston's toughness would be quite UNBELIEVABLY AWESOME .

Fixed.

Fixed-er

Fix-est.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Couple people are missing the point that if hammer hand is available to squads or justicars, anti tank is not going to be an issue.

Yeah, a couple of STR 10 Melee attacks are nothing to sneeze at.

eehehe, everytime I hear that I imagine someones tank getting blown up by a justicar, and then they sneeze and stare blankly at it.

axeman1n wrote:Lowering Mephiston's toughness would be quite mean.

eh, if these rumors are true then the grey knights are pretty crappy daemonhunters but awesome nidhunters and mephistonslayers due to force weapons. you only need a single wound to kill any of the above while everything in the daemon codex has eternal warrior. pretty counterintuitive design choice if true.

AgeOfEgos wrote:GK Librarians - Here is where it gets good. We've heard that a wider array of Librarian Ranks are available, some allowing over 2 powers per turn to be used ~Eat your heart out Eldrad! Some of the reported powers included crazy stuff like:
-the lowering of a target unit's toughness! ~Think of what that means for the T:3 races!
-a "Stealth Kustom Force Field" that hands out the USR to all nearby friendlies.
-an "Inverse Gate" to yank a friendly unit from wherever, to right near the libby.

giggity

Lucid wrote:

AgeOfEgos wrote:GK Librarians - Here is where it gets good. We've heard that a wider array of Librarian Ranks are available, some allowing over 2 powers per turn to be used ~Eat your heart out Eldrad! Some of the reported powers included crazy stuff like:
-the lowering of a target unit's toughness! ~Think of what that means for the T:3 races!
-a "Stealth Kustom Force Field" that hands out the USR to all nearby friendlies.
-an "Inverse Gate" to yank a friendly unit from wherever, to right near the libby.

giggity

ahah your disgusting naughty *spanks ass*

Anyone know how many months they release an Incoming! before a release? I want to hear that GK are confirmed and I want to know a release date! NOWW!!! wrrryyyyy!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I have just decided that this rumour is complete bullsh*t.

From StickMonkey:
Corrected Psycannon profile
24" A3 AP3 S6, no invul saves, pinning test for units or models with psykers.
or 36" H1 AP4 S5 5" blast, no invul saves, no cover saves. (does not cause psyker pinning)

It reeks of made upness (its a word). A weapon that is available in up to 4 in a 5 man squad in the case of purgation squads will not be toting a 36 range str 5 ap 4 blast, one squad of that could decimate an entire hoard in a single turn, were talking better than a manticore here. One thing I have known from the start is somewhere someone confirmed that psycannons would be much cheaper than their archaic 3rd edition brethren, because they remove the nemesis force weapon when they are taken, as well as the storm bolter. Theres no way something this devastating could cost less than 30 points, the previous price of psycannons.

Nor is it going to be ap3 str 6 assault 3. Thats a complete marine slayer, not to mention would also laugh at a trygon or a carnifex. I would feel bad using them if these stats were true, these stats are so overpowered its not even funny. Any other rumours from stick monkey I believe should be discredited.

warboss wrote:

axeman1n wrote:Lowering Mephiston's toughness would be quite mean.

eh, if these rumors are true then the grey knights are pretty crappy daemonhunters but awesome nidhunters and mephistonslayers due to force weapons. you only need a single wound to kill any of the above while everything in the daemon codex has eternal warrior. pretty counterintuitive design choice if true.

Now what if they dont cause instant death but just remove the model?

Or they ignore EW... that would be good

Glad to have your opinion Jaon.

Except Stickeymonkey is pretty solid on his previous rumor information.

I'll go with him over your "reasoning" anyday. Thanks for playing though