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I am now no longer a Necron Player because of the fluff I have heard about so far.

The specifics of it don't really matter all that much. All I need to know is that the Necrons are no longer the deathless legion of warriors lashed into the service of Lovecraftian gods from the dawn of time. This has more or less been confirmed.

I could have gotten behind some of the Necrons having personality and will... in service to their all powerful deities and their all-consuming decadence. The C'tan were all that was cool about the Necrons. They gave the race their character, they were the creepy 'other', ageless beings from before even the Old Ones had figured out how to speak to one another. They were on par with the Chaos Gods in the scope of their power and influence, with their greater goal even being to utterly seal the Warp off from corporeal reality. They had plans within plans. One had left a scar, the fear of death, on the racial memory of nearly every race in existence. Another had been awake longer than the others and has been engineering, politicking, and infiltrating society at large. Another was sealed inside of a Dyson-Sphere, and was apparently so utterly insane and powerful that even the Eldar Laughing God and his Harlequin servants are terrified of his return. And the last was seemingly sealed away on Mars at the heart of the Imperium, a deep, dark secret that could potentially sunder the Imperium in two were it ever known.

But no. Matt Ward has given us a Necron race that turned against it's gods and broken them apart, rendered them powerless in prisons. Now they're simply space-liches waking up and wanting their empires back.

"Oh, but there are some fringe Necron sects that still worship the C'tan! And the Necrons never hunted down ALL of the C'tan shards, they could still be doing all of that stuff!" ---- No. Simply no. It is NOT the same thing. The entire flavor of the race has been changed, down to it's core. The C'tan have gone from possibly the biggest threat to the galaxy to a boogeyman that a race of robots has locked away in an extra-dimensional closet. The Necrons are now supposedly fighting over things as trivial as territory, borders, spheres of influence, things that were beneath them and the grand designs of their ageless Gods before.

Bleh. It's horrible. My favorite 40k race has been, in my eyes, destroyed.

I was on the fence before about Matt Ward, but I'm now firmly in the 'he should never be allowed to write another codex again, EVER' camp.

Panzerboy26 wrote:Bleh. It's horrible. My favorite 40k race has been, in my eyes, destroyed.

I feel your pain :( They killed my nids too, making it feel like im outfitting some IG units other than evolving to counter a threat

Blood_Raven wrote:6th edition Tyranids will state they just want hugs but their claws end up ripping things to shreds by accident. They love you really.

Like with Edward Scissorhands?

iDevour wrote:So...am i the only one having a problem with aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaall the C'tan related fluff for every race going *pooof* if they really got more or less removed right after the war with the ancients?
Because all arguments seem to revolve about the "not being one-whole-race anymore", when imo the other parts is way worse fluff-wise O.o
Man, i can't wait to read it xD

Well, the unaccounted shards sound like they would allow for all the other fluff to still exist, and perhaps even strengthen some of it (so Uriel just faced down a shard of a god, not an actual god).

tedurur wrote:no they really arent a localized threat. They want to dominate the whole galaxy. The fact that they arent the same "autonomus super mega kill everything that moves robots" does not make them less of a threat to the Imperium. Maybe somewhat less od a threath to humanity but not to the imperium. Considering the fact that they can rofelstomp the Tyranids is somewhat of an indication of their level of power.

Yeah, Tau want to dominate the galaxy too, but no one cares about them. And every Tyranid hive fleet so far has been thoroughly roflestomped, so that's not much of an indication either. Orks are the only real threat the Imperium has anymore. It's like the good ole pre-Rylanor days.

I'm quite looking forward to the new direction. I mean I loved the old crons, the whole concept of an immortal & anchient galactic menace appeals to me, but from my perspective they weren't exactly the most 'interesting' of armies.

I mean they had what, 10 units in total (lords, pariahs, warriors, immortals, scarabs, wraiths, flayed ones, destroyers, tombspiders, the 'lith), and pretty much everything written about them was the same i.e. 'wake up, disintegrate, sleep'.

I like the idea of them having some sort of civilisation, just to get a bit more variety in there.

Omegus wrote:Well, the unaccounted shards sound like they would allow for all the other fluff to still exist, and perhaps even strengthen some of it (so Uriel just faced down a shard of a god, not an actual god).

Depends on how "strong" those shards are..

Im just not sure that all the stuff that they did can be attributed to just a little piece of their power..because when you sum it up that would make them preeeeetty badass when they were alive..and how did they kill them then?

edit: Im not saying its not possible, im just saying that this is what im most afraid of, because screwing that up would mess with alot more than "just" the standard necron fluff
Still waiting till i read it, because up to now everything is just theories ;D

I dont quite understand how the fluff can be ruined for you. They have basically said, hey if you want the old stuff, have it! Just make your own tomb world that still worship the c'tan and work the same way as the old necrons did? It really isnt that difficult. I think people just like to complain. Be creative, thats what hobbying is for.

Isn't the codex comming out on Novemer 5'th? Or they decided to put it out for the Halloween. ( Day of the Dead joke I supose ).

Thatguy91 wrote:I dont quite understand how the fluff can be ruined for you. They have basically said, hey if you want the old stuff, have it! Just make your own tomb world that still worship the c'tan and work the same way as the old necrons did? It really isnt that difficult. I think people just like to complain. Be creative, thats what hobbying is for.

I think your suggestion would be more helpful if you just told people to just completely disregard 100% of all the fluff in the new codex.

"Just making your own tomb world that still worships the C'tan" doesn't do anything to solve the issue that some people have with the Necrons now not being a monolithic, galaxy-spanning entity out to eradicate all life.

Panzerboy26 wrote:
I was on the fence before about Matt Ward, but I'm now firmly in the 'he should never be allowed to write another codex again, EVER' camp.

I highly doubt that Mat Ward was the one who made this background decision. He would have been told the direction they wanted the Necrons to go in.

Omegus wrote:And every Tyranid hive fleet so far has been thoroughly roflestomped, so that's not much of an indication either.

But not in same way. The Necron fleet engagements with the Tyranids are always described as if the Necrons annihilated the Tyranids with no losses. Only the Tau managed to replicate that feat (with Shadowsun being both an amazing land and naval general. Would've thought that that would've been down to the Air Caste, but okay.), and only once against what was presumably a very small splinter fleet. The Imperium lose worlds stopping them. The Eldar suffer heavy losses. The Necrons? They decimate the Tyranids like noone else seems capable of.

Omegus wrote:Just making your own tomb world that still worships the C'tan" doesn't do anything to solve the issue that some people have with the Necrons now not being a monolithic, galaxy-spanning entity out to eradicate all life.

They were never out to eradicate all life though (well, they kind of were, but the C'tan were not going to let them do so). They also weren't monolithic or a single entity considering the Nightbringer and the Deceiver were at loggerheads.

Not sure why the Deceiver didn't just go wake up all of his Tombworlds, though. Or the Nightbringer, for that matter.

Omegus wrote:

Thatguy91 wrote:I dont quite understand how the fluff can be ruined for you. They have basically said, hey if you want the old stuff, have it! Just make your own tomb world that still worship the c'tan and work the same way as the old necrons did? It really isnt that difficult. I think people just like to complain. Be creative, thats what hobbying is for.

I think your suggestion would be more helpful if you just told people to just completely disregard 100% of all the fluff in the new codex.

"Just making your own tomb world that still worships the C'tan" doesn't do anything to solve the issue that some people have with the Necrons now not being a monolithic, galaxy-spanning entity out to eradicate all life.

No, it wouldnt be on the same scale. Nowhere near it infact but its still what you want to play and to be completely honest the old necron fluff was about as predictable and stale as anything could possibly be. Now you have some flavour in the mix, some mystery and you have different factions of the same race (the "city states"). You will still have an impressive force of countless skeletal figures worshipping C'tans if that is what you want. I honestly dont see what all the fuss is about, but then again im a sucker for fluff so maybe its just me..

Thatguy91 wrote:I dont quite understand how the fluff can be ruined for you. They have basically said, hey if you want the old stuff, have it! Just make your own tomb world that still worship the c'tan and work the same way as the old necrons did? It really isnt that difficult. I think people just like to complain. Be creative, thats what hobbying is for.

*New Black Templars Codex*

So they've decided to take the chapter in another direction, they're no longer going to be angry, crusading Zealots. They're going to be peaceful, self-sacrificing Exemplars of justice who strive to make sure that right and reason are achieved above all things, making sure to get both the Imperial and Xenos/Heretical sides of the story before weighing the facts and choosing which side to fight for. They often fight against the Imperium when they find that it's forces and Imperial commanders acted with gross negligence for the welfare of other races. Because they believe in fighting for the notion of a galactic community and a higher code of justice rather than something based on as trivial a notion as race. And Psykers? Most of the time they are the victims of their own genetics, so the chapter takes every step that they can to ensure that they are taken down non-lethally and treated humanely after the fact, because again, it's not their fault.

And oh, for anyone who want's the old codex and fluff? You can have it! They put a little 'fluff' box at the bottom at one of the pages that one of the Chapter's Companies has gone rogue, acting all hateful, judgmental, and intolerant, even going so far as to launch a 'crusade' against so called 'enemies of the Imperium'.



--- See what I did there? It's pretty much the same thing.

You are joking, right?

No it isn't.

What you described is a total reversal of the Fluff, with the inclusion of being able to use the old fluff as a foot-note. The Necron fluff is not this, at all. You can create your own fluff as part of the new fluff, choosing to do whatever you want with your Necron Overlord. He can be kind, ruthless, the exact same as the old Lords, or even a friend to younger races, or he can be exactly as you want him to be. THIS IS ALL PART OF THE NEW FLUFF. It caters for literally everyone.

iproxtaco wrote:No it isn't.

What you described is a total reversal of the Fluff, with the inclusion of being able to use the old fluff as a foot-note. The Necron fluff is not this, at all. You can create your own fluff as part of the new fluff, choosing to do whatever you want with your Necron Overlord. He can be kind, ruthless, the exact same as the old Lords, or even a friend to younger races, or he can be exactly as you want him to be. THIS IS ALL PART OF THE NEW FLUFF. It caters for literally everyone.

^ This.

The difference is that with the necrons we have never known the full story of their people and their strugges. All we have known is that they made a "deal with the devil" and lost their free will in the process. However as it turns out that is not the case, they seem to be a highly evolved and socially structured people with different views and beliefs, like all other races. As far as I understand it though most of them want to bring back the old ways, where they ruled but tolerated lesser races. Not even close to the same thing. People just like to cry about things that they dont like at first glace, if you actually look into it you will find that this fluff really opens up the Necron race and gives them some depth. Its a good thing.

Old Necron Fluff:

Star Gods help crappy small race become sweet to wage a second war against old ones. War is declared for the second time except now the Necrons are on the verge of winning. Enslaver plague steals the final win and Necrons fight each other. Everyone finally goes to sleep for 60 million years.

40K Setting: They awaken here and there and get into random fights. For the most part they are an empire in slumber.

New Necron Fluff:

Necrons are galaxy spanning empire that rocks, so hard infact they fight each other. Civil War starts and Necrons unify under one ruler to wage war against Old Ones. War becomes very difficult and enlist help from C'Tan. C'Tan enslave them then achieve victory. After they win the Necrons turn on the C'Tan, apparently this is such a brutal undertaking it cripples the Necrons to the point of fearing the Eldar.


40K Setting: The Silent King exiles himself into the coldness of space where he sees the Nids approaching our galaxy, realizing the threat this could be for his sleeping empire, he returns to mobilize his entire empire into a galactic war to wipe these invaders out to the last roach.



Personally, I prefer option 2 over option 1. Saying option two destroyed option 1 is opinion. Most people fell asleep reading Necron fluff since it was basically a whole bunch of narration about stuff that happened a billion trillion years ago between two factions, one we had mere scraps of info about.

Necron players are so lucky, I'd kill for a revamp like this for Tau. Do very want more then 2 short stories explaining all my fluff.

iproxtaco wrote:No it isn't.

What you described is a total reversal of the Fluff, with the inclusion of being able to use the old fluff as a foot-note. The Necron fluff is not this, at all. You can create your own fluff as part of the new fluff, choosing to do whatever you want with your Necron Overlord. He can be kind, ruthless, the exact same as the old Lords, or even a friend to younger races, or he can be exactly as you want him to be. THIS IS ALL PART OF THE NEW FLUFF. It caters for literally everyone.

Ok about that, I was thinking about BLACK TEMPLARS BECOMING REASONABLE MARINES AND SPREADING PEACE, LOVE AND UNITY ALL OVER THE GALAXY.
Somebody tell me this is a joke...

Rumors had Templars delayed to get more xeno in in 6th ed.

This joke may turn out as sad truth, the BT altered from crusading to hospitaller and caring for the pilgrims alongside the sisters of escort service.


7 pages of 'new' fluff.. no one has read himself as the dex is still unavailable.

Thatguy91 wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:No it isn't.

What you described is a total reversal of the Fluff, with the inclusion of being able to use the old fluff as a foot-note. The Necron fluff is not this, at all. You can create your own fluff as part of the new fluff, choosing to do whatever you want with your Necron Overlord. He can be kind, ruthless, the exact same as the old Lords, or even a friend to younger races, or he can be exactly as you want him to be. THIS IS ALL PART OF THE NEW FLUFF. It caters for literally everyone.

^ This.

The difference is that with the necrons we have never known the full story of their people and their strugges. All we have known is that they made a "deal with the devil" and lost their free will in the process. However as it turns out that is not the case, they seem to be a highly evolved and socially structured people with different views and beliefs, like all other races. As far as I understand it though most of them want to bring back the old ways, where they ruled but tolerated lesser races. Not even close to the same thing. People just like to cry about things that they dont like at first glace, if you actually look into it you will find that this fluff really opens up the Necron race and gives them some depth. Its a good thing.

That's not entirely what I meant. It's opinion obviously, but the new fluff has not replaced the old fluff. Lovers of the old Necrons can like the new Necrons for the exact same reasons, nothing has changed in that respect. People like me, who really hated them for a distinct lack of direction and personality, can now love the new Necrons for their own reasons. I want to be an Overlord that wants a return to the old ways, when they ruled other races through fear and discipline, that zealously attacked the C'tan for their betrayal, that enslaves shards whenever he can, but that sees the strength they gained from their metal bodies and opposes a return to biological forms. That's MY reasons. Like I said, it's all opinion, but I just find it incredibly frustrating when people say the old Necrons have been destroyed, because it's not true.

It depends really on how the fluff is written. Are Necrons still a faceless horror? Are they still a largely unknown terror that are only hinted at?

Or,will they be the 40k equivalent of Cobra commander from GI Joe, will they constantly lose in their own fluff to marines? Will the entire Necron hierarchy be full of idiotic characters who make the Necrons appear as threatening as snidely whiplash?

Quite frankly anyone who believes that the Necrons aren't in fact completely changed is deluding themselves. They used to be virtually completely silent, which made them more terrifying, a Necron Lord would rarely speak, especially in the presence of other factions. Which is now of course no longer the case, since apparently the codex is brimming with quotes from Necron characters. I can only make the assumption that this other aspect of Necron fluff is gone as well, Necrons were mostly presented from other points of view, their quotes regarding them and their gods were by other species, discussing the threat they posed. This served to emphasize the alien natures of the Necrons, and their cosmic horror vibe. Contrary to what some seem to think, the Necrons being humanised devalues their previous characterisation, as alien, implacable threats, united and driven relentlessly by a single-minded hatred that has survived eons. Now, some will no doubt harp out the usual argument (BUT THAT WAS THE PROBLEM), no, it wasn't. Singular or purpose=/=Mindless and unable to be distinguished. That is admittedly one failing of the 3e Necron codex, the sentience of the upper echelons of the Necrons should have been emphasized better. I am all for the new codex approaching distinguishing Lords and Tomb Worlds and giving players more hooks for creating fluff for their army. But not if every pre-existing theme is thrown into the garbage. The cosmic horror? It's gone, and no, Necrons worshipping and wielding pathetic shards of a former deity's power (That will probably get punched out by Calgar) =/=cosmic horror. Oh, and then there is the theme of absolute order the Necrons embodied, where if the goals of their masters are completely, the galaxy stops changing for all time, serving only as a means to amuse and feed them, a soulless galaxy without innovation or change. Only... This theme is undermined by the simple fact that IIRC all Tomb Worlds are now largely independent of one another. Before, the only four factions you could argue were Necrons serving a specific deity, which already gave players reasons to have Necrons fight eachother, though like many things about Necrons, the codex should of made this clear. Them being so fractured undermines the "Order" theme.

Then of course there is this argument...

"Oh but you can make your own fluff! : D"

Well sure I guess you can also make your own fluff about how the Grey Knights are Slaanesh-worshipping serial rapists who prey on the weaker Maiden Worlds of the Eldar, but you'd have to ignore the official fluff to make this possible.

For me, the C'tan being the overlords of the Necrons isn't just some detail of the setting, it should be an immutable fact. If the Chaos Gods were enslaved by Abaddon and used as war engines on the battlefields, the Chaos fans' testicles would all explode. The part that makes them being demoted severely is the fact that to "fix" the Necrons (Since I will admit that, as much as I loved their codex, it had flaws that should be improved), making the C'tan jokes didn't have to happen. Want to have different Tomb Worlds behave differently? Sure, why not, that does add characterization. United and singularity of purpose doesn't mean different Lords and Tombs could have different ways of approaching their ultimate goal, and contrary to popular belief, the Necrons before 5e have demonstrated more than a basic "KILL EVERYTHING" methodology. Some Necron attacks kidnap, some harvest the bodies of the population, some show up with a specific objective in mind, then immediately leave, etc.

The Necrons, if the rumors are true (And I sincerely hope they aren't), have lost what truly made them Necrons. The baisc horror? Gone, now they're just regular dudes who happen to be robotic skeletons (Seriously, the Silent King going on an emo pilgrimage outside the galaxy because he was guilty? Really?). The cosmic horror? You can't have cosmic horror without the cosmic horrors, and the cosmic horrors of the Necrons have been shattered into tiny pieces and are used as slaves and war engines. The theme of Order, of Unity in its purest form? Necrons society is now fractured on multiple levels... Hell, this said fracturing of their society is the reason they warred with the Old Ones in the first place. The single-minded hatred that led them to sell their souls and damn themselves? Pft, now it's just a team-building exercise.

Do not get me wrong, I fault no one if they genuinely like the new Necrons (Or rather, the rumors, my God, I just wrote a nerdrage essay over rumors of the storyline behind a bunch of toy robots ), but at the same time, don't expect a Necron player (Not to say all feel the same way as me) to just smile and accept the new fluff, when they really don't like it.

On another note, the demotion of the C'tan does in fact make other beings in the setting look much weaker in comparison, ironically. Apparently a starving, weakened shard of the Void Dragon was capable of holding its own and even getting the upper hand against the Emperor, compared to Horus when backed by all four Chaos Gods, who only did so well because the Emperor was unable to bring his full power to bear. I find that amusing.

What makes or breaks it for me is how the big four are handled. Haven't heard about that in rumors. If the big four are still whole, then I can roll with the lesser C'tan being broken up by the Necrons instead of NOMed by the other C'tan. If they big four are broken and gone......I don't really know. However, if the big four are still unsharded and out there, then good. They never should have been playable.

I for one welcome our new Necron overlords...
I find the new fluff great, and think it gives the necrons more depth and purpose. As stated before you really did not get a feel for any diversity within the necron race, or something that made them stand out in the universe. I always thought of them as metallic Nids, their only purpose being the nom nom nom. But now I see that they are in fact a much more intelligent race. They are still the same diabolical heartless killings machines. Now they just have a reason for being diabolical heartless killing machines, and a more clear direction for their killing.

So after writting a huge post for the last 25mins.... Dakka decided to logg me out and instead of re-writting the entire thing which I really cant make myself go through again im going to cut it down real nice and short.... Thanks Forum Gods! *mumble* *mumble* *spits profanities* *mumbles*.

New C'tan vs Old C'tan. - I didnt like how some of the most powerful creatures in the universe could be beaten in battle by some tiny human with some luck. These creatures are as old as the galaxy itself, they have been worshiped like gods, they turned the tide on a war against what was possibly the strongest race that the galaxy has ever seen with a flick of their wrists, they fed on the very stars themselves! I mean come on! If these guys truely were to take to the battlefield they would just destroy everything, its as simple as that, and since that isnt a viable option in a gaming sense, dont use them! It just... It just doesnt work for me. At all. Therefore i like the new C'tan. They are now mere shadows, nay slithers of their former selves and they have lost their true power but they are still powerful enough to challenge any mortal being in combat, not to mention the funky special rules they bring to the table. This works for me.

Unity - No race is truely unified. Thats just the way it goes. Except for maybe the Tyranids... And they dont really have a choice now do they.. With sentience comes a choice and with choices comes individualism and that will ultimately lead a race away from unity. They can all work for the same goal but they do not all want the same thing, its just how life works. You can have unity through simplification, like the old Necrons, but that removes the higher level of sentience... which removes individualism... which tend to make things boring after a while as everything will stay stagnant.

Tomb kings... IN SPAAAAAAACE - Yeah just stop it lolz. I mean for real. If you took two minutes to sit down and read about the ancient cultures and civilizations, most of them worked this way. EI city states/kingdoms, Godlike leader figures/kings, polytheism, similar architectural designs (pyramid-like), jewelry was colorful and very extravagant, almost all of them use a system of glyphs and they are all very "Mysterious". Its how the world works. Simple.



That'll do for now.

^^This

The Ctan were simply too powerful in the previous setting. They needed to be written down in powerlevel and what they appear to have done now seems like a good way of doing it.

Besides, can someone who is a fan of the old fluff tell me why the Deciver/Nightbringer who were awake and free didnt go wake up their minions so that they could rape every civilization? It makes no sense what so ever.

Also, the Necrons stomping the Nids is nothing like when the other races stomp the Nids. Saying so is just nonsens.

tedurur wrote:
Also, the Necrons stomping the Nids is nothing like when the other races stomp the Nids. Saying so is just nonsens.

I quite like the idea that necrons can easily roflstomp the 'nids, it kind of gives them a hint of 'necessary evil'. Kind of like the quote from Chronicles of Riddick:
'Sometimes evil (nids) cannot be defeated by good (the rest), and must be fought by a different kind of evil (crons), I'm paraphrasing a bit but you get the idea...

Void__Dragon wrote:The single-minded hatred that led them to sell their souls and damn themselves? Pft, now it's just a team-building exercise.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Silly Emocrons.

iproxtaco wrote:No it isn't.

What you described is a total reversal of the Fluff, with the inclusion of being able to use the old fluff as a foot-note. The Necron fluff is not this, at all. You can create your own fluff as part of the new fluff, choosing to do whatever you want with your Necron Overlord. He can be kind, ruthless, the exact same as the old Lords, or even a friend to younger races, or he can be exactly as you want him to be. THIS IS ALL PART OF THE NEW FLUFF. It caters for literally everyone.

Except... that is what its like. Soulless machines being controlled by unfathomable beings who are bent on purging all life no matter , suddenly go to valuing concepts like honour and trade with other races (what they could possibly need I'll never know). Its like a giant 180 in the tone and concept. Don't really care if Ward wrote it or not, I don't like it either way.
So yeah I think the BT example holds up really well.

Watch an anime called the Master of Martial Hearts for what I'm getting at here, a terrible, terrible show which does a 180 on the tone it initially set, right in the final episode out of nowhere. Thats kinda what its like for me here and I'm guessing other people here.

Actually I've just noticed that honour and valour seems to be repeated themes which crop up in Matt Wards work. The Blood Angels value it, the Grey Knights value it, the UM value it and now the Necrons do as well. I've got nothing against the concepts of them, but why do different chapters and races even seemingly put such a strong emphasis on it. Doesn't seem to fit the tone of the universe very well. Bloody hell can you imagine if he had tried to cram in those concepts with the DE

This was posted on Warseer, supposedly deals with the scattered Necron domains now (called Dynasties):



So apparently, Necrons value honor quite a bit and look down on Tomb Worlds which break pacts, go back on their word, act dishonorable, etc.. In addition Flayed Ones are viewed with disdain for being too violent.

Oi vey Necrons, what have they done to you. I really don't understand why they're machines anymore there's no point to it.

Maybe the terminator franchise was threatening to sue or GW were scared that they might?