Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So? Doesn't mean he lives there. Half the Dark Angels disappeared in a warp storm.

Omegus wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:I find it amusing that he says "is winning so important that you lie?" when his sig is a list of people who he feels he's 'bested', and many of those 'bestings' were when he took something out of context.

Those are a list of people who would argue something until they were blue in the face, then I would provide quotations from the actual written material, and they would take their ball and go home. Ya know, like you did in the Dark Angels thread. It's okay, I know your butt's still sore about it, so I'll forgive you for doing the exact same thing this time.

Cheers.

I find it hard to believe you could beat Kanluwen in a fluff argument.....no one can beat Kanluwen in a fluff argument, tis' impossible...

bombboy1252 wrote:

Omegus wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:I find it amusing that he says "is winning so important that you lie?" when his sig is a list of people who he feels he's 'bested', and many of those 'bestings' were when he took something out of context.

Those are a list of people who would argue something until they were blue in the face, then I would provide quotations from the actual written material, and they would take their ball and go home. Ya know, like you did in the Dark Angels thread. It's okay, I know your butt's still sore about it, so I'll forgive you for doing the exact same thing this time.

Cheers.

I find it hard to believe you could beat Kanluwen in a fluff argument.....no one can beat Kanluwen in a fluff argument, tis' impossible...

You can beat Kanluwen in a fluff arguement. It's making him admit it that's hard

Yes, there's a lot of sound and fury, but at the end of the day, that's all it is.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Coolyo294 wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Arrrgh, these endless Draigo threads. Although, actually this is a pretty good one. I'm sorry ,but Draigo is not a tragic figure. In a way his story is a retcon just to show how super awesome he is. Previously, no one could actually go into the warp without horrible things happening to them. Just looking into the warp causes terrible things to happen to Navigators, a people breed just for that purpose. Yet, there goes Draigo actually living in the warp. He sleeps there, somehow eats and drinks there. Probably has afternoon tea too. The whole point is to show that he can beat the gods on their own turf.

The United Fanclubs of Darnath Lysander would like a word with you.

When did Lysander go into the Warp?

Disappeared in a Warp Storm, didn't he?

Anyhow, there's also the Space Wolves' 13th Company.

13th Company lives in the Eye of Terror which is not the Warp - it is a warpspace/realspace overlap. Not even Chaos Space Marines can live in the Warp. The only things in the whole universe that can live in Warp without a Gellar Field are chaos daemons, chaos gods and Kaldor Draigo.

Draigo is a Greater Daemon of the Emperor.

CpatTom wrote:Draigo is a boss.

Their you go

Draigo is a grey knight, grey knights > daemons

and Draigo is an Uber grey knight with Uber daemon slaying powers, so, lets put this discussion to rest

I wouldn't mind if it was hinted at HOW he is so powerful.
Maybe some kind of divine light of the emperor or something.
But as it is he's "just" a genetically engineered super human.

bombboy1252 wrote:Their you go

Draigo is a grey knight, grey knights > daemons

and Draigo is an Uber grey knight with Uber daemon slaying powers, so, lets put this discussion to rest

Most advantages Grey Knights have against Daemons stop applying when they're actually in the Warp.

That's an assumption.

Draigo's the first Grey Knight to actually be "in the Warp", so who knows.

Kanluwen wrote:That's an assumption.

Draigo's the first Grey Knight to actually be "in the Warp", so who knows.

A lot of advantages, like the Grimoire of True Names Hector Rex had when he fought An'ggrath, are used to help weaken the Daemon's hold on the Materium. A lot of the Grey Knight's psychic abilities, like the blast used against Angron, do the same.

I'm not saying Draigo would lose every advantage, but he would certainly be less potent in the Warp.

I don't know about that.

He's still a massively powerful Psyker. All the Grey Knights are.

While he might not be able to banish a Daemon, he would still likely be able to rip something apart.

With his brain.

He's even that powerful of a psyker. He has a master level of two. Almost every space marine chapter has a few librarians capable of the same amount of power.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
*not

AchillesFTW wrote:He's even that powerful of a psyker. He has a master level of two. Almost every space marine chapter has a few librarians capable of the same amount of power.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
*not

Don't bring the TT into a fluff discussion, they never match up...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kanluwen wrote:That's an assumption.

Draigo's the first Grey Knight to actually be "in the Warp", so who knows.

+1 to this...

Has any psyker ever been in the warp before? I don't think so, but I'm not sure...

Yes, he is a boring invincible god like Mary Sue, get over it already.

To be honest, Chaos Gods might come to enjoy his prolong stay in the warp as time pass by
Khorne: Someone who's always up for a fight! Great!
Slaanesh: More pain and it hurts so good!
Nurgle: Everything grows back anyway! Watching Draigo rampaging through the warp is probably really amusing!
Tzeentch: Lots and lots of changes everywhere! Maybe he let Draigo in because he wants to redecorate the inevitable city?

Jackster wrote:Yes, he is a boring invincible god like Mary Sue, get over it already.

Wanna know who else is a boring, invincible, god like Mary Sue...

The 4 chaos gods, I mean they never die, their god like, and I can't for the life of me find a flaw in any of them due to their godly nature...

40k is filled with...as you say "Mary Sues" so "get over it already"

bombboy1252 wrote:Wanna know who else is a boring, invincible, god like Mary Sue...

The 4 chaos gods, I mean they never die, their god like, and I can't for the life of me find a flaw in any of them due to their godly nature...

40k is filled with...as you say "Mary Sues" so "get over it already"

Er.

There is kind of a big difference.

bombboy1252 wrote:

Jackster wrote:Yes, he is a boring invincible god like Mary Sue, get over it already.

Wanna know who else is a boring, invincible, god like Mary Sue...

The 4 chaos gods, I mean they never die, their god like, and I can't for the life of me find a flaw in any of them due to their godly nature...

40k is filled with...as you say "Mary Sues" so "get over it already"

lol, gods act... god like? That is totally stupid!

Jackster wrote:

bombboy1252 wrote:

Jackster wrote:Yes, he is a boring invincible god like Mary Sue, get over it already.

Wanna know who else is a boring, invincible, god like Mary Sue...

The 4 chaos gods, I mean they never die, their god like, and I can't for the life of me find a flaw in any of them due to their godly nature...

40k is filled with...as you say "Mary Sues" so "get over it already"

lol, gods act... god like? That is totally stupid!

How is that stupid...or do gods act "human" like in you're religion oh and

U mad bro?

bombboy1252 wrote:

Jackster wrote:

bombboy1252 wrote:

Jackster wrote:Yes, he is a boring invincible god like Mary Sue, get over it already.

Wanna know who else is a boring, invincible, god like Mary Sue...

The 4 chaos gods, I mean they never die, their god like, and I can't for the life of me find a flaw in any of them due to their godly nature...

40k is filled with...as you say "Mary Sues" so "get over it already"

lol, gods act... god like? That is totally stupid!

How is that stupid...or do gods act "human" like in you're religion oh and

U mad bro?

No, you just suffer from a severe case of Sarcasm blindness.
BTW, it's "your". Unless I became a religion without knowing.

Jackster wrote:

bombboy1252 wrote:

Jackster wrote:

bombboy1252 wrote:

Jackster wrote:Yes, he is a boring invincible god like Mary Sue, get over it already.

Wanna know who else is a boring, invincible, god like Mary Sue...

The 4 chaos gods, I mean they never die, their god like, and I can't for the life of me find a flaw in any of them due to their godly nature...

40k is filled with...as you say "Mary Sues" so "get over it already"

lol, gods act... god like? That is totally stupid!

How is that stupid...or do gods act "human" like in you're religion oh and

U mad bro?

No, you just suffer from a severe case of Sarcasm blindness.
BTW, it's "your".

Sorry if I can't sense sarcasm over the internet...it's kinda hard...like you don't know if I'm angry, laughing, or being a sarcastic D**k head right now...

and I was never good at "you're" and "your"....wish I paid attention that one day in english class...

bombboy1252 wrote:
Has any psyker ever been in the warp before? I don't think so, but I'm not sure...

Not in physical form, no, as it's impossible to survive.

Just like the maze of Tzeentch leading to the Inevitable City is impossible to solve.

Draigo can do a lot of impossible things. It's the hallmark of any well-written character.

bombboy1252 wrote:

AchillesFTW wrote:He's even that powerful of a psyker. He has a master level of two. Almost every space marine chapter has a few librarians capable of the same amount of power.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
*not

Don't bring the TT into a fluff discussion, they never match up...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kanluwen wrote:That's an assumption.

Draigo's the first Grey Knight to actually be "in the Warp", so who knows.

+1 to this...

Has any psyker ever been in the warp before? I don't think so, but I'm not sure...

Yes. Millions. Gellar fields breech and fail all the time. Over the last 30,000+ years all have died....except Draigo. Just looking into the warp can drive you insane. Specially bred mutants names navigators have a special eye just for this purpose. Just looking into that eye can kill you. That is how dangerous the imaterium is....except Draigo. Because......he's a tragic figure or something....

KamikazeCanuck wrote:
Yes. Millions. Gellar fields breech and fail all the time. Over the last 30,000+ years all have died....except Draigo. Just looking into the warp can drive you insane. Specially bred mutants names navigators have a special eye just for this purpose. Just looking into that eye can kill you. That is how dangerous the imaterium is....except Draigo. Because......he's a tragic figure or something....

Actually, that is untrue.

Not all have died, and Navigators aren't the only ones who can "look into the Warp". They're the only ones who can safely look at it for extended periods of time and guide ships through it.

Truth be told it's almost like they navigate or something...

Simply put, by this point in time I'm fairly convinced that there is no 'physical' Draigo. Every time he shows up, he shows up exactly how Daemons do at Warp Breaches: he just shows up, no possession necessary. All we are seeing whenever he shows up to fight is a kind of Draigodaemon, his soul manifesting itself through sheer force of will upon the real world.

Kinda like a Daemon does, truth be told.

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:The only things in the whole universe that can live in Warp without a Gellar Field are chaos daemons, chaos gods and Kaldor Draigo.

And Enslavers. And the Eldar Gods. Etc. Etc. Etc.

Void__Dragon wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:That's an assumption.

Draigo's the first Grey Knight to actually be "in the Warp", so who knows.

A lot of advantages, like the Grimoire of True Names Hector Rex had when he fought An'ggrath, are used to help weaken the Daemon's hold on the Materium. A lot of the Grey Knight's psychic abilities, like the blast used against Angron, do the same.

I'm not saying Draigo would lose every advantage, but he would certainly be less potent in the Warp.

Considering how the true name of a daemon is something the Chaos Gods use to control their servants in, you know, the Warp, I don't see why they wouldn't work there.


Also, Gellar Fields work by projecting a field that keeps daemons out of the ship, yes? Huh, what do you know, sounds an awful lot like the wards in Aegis armour to me. Is it that far-fetched that the wards of the Supreme Grand Master's suit of relic terminator armour would be able to defend him?

Yes, it is that far-fetched. He's in the friggin' warp. His fluff is terribly written and he's a Mary Sue. That's what Matthew Ward does. It's okay, you'll get through this. Denial is always the first step.

Omegus wrote:Yes, it is that far-fetched. He's in the friggin' warp. His fluff is terribly written and he's a Mary Sue. That's what Matthew Ward does. It's okay, you'll get through this. Denial is always the first step.

Actually, my first step was raging at how bad his fluff was and hating Mat Ward. Then I got over it and started thinking for myself.

Seriously though, Grey Knights have always been anathema to daemons to the point that daemons, the incarnations of everything that is fethed up, recoil from them. It would seem logical that the most powerful of them all could fight the daemons even better, yes? Just being in the warp isn't dangerous, it's the fact that daemons jump you the moment they can that is.

Let's use an example: If there's a guy that you and your neighbours really hate that's walking around in your neighbourhood, you'd normally just have everyone jump him and smash his sorry face to pieces. Now, imagine the same situation where the guy has the power to burn your mind simply by existing.

He does look nice killing Daemons in the Warp.

I do not see why there is so much arguing about this. Sure, Mat Ward made a mistake, both lorewise and gamewise (he is BOTH harder than lysander, and really strong too???), especially in the lore. He can't have defeated a primarch. sure, he might be the strongest grey knight (so far) but he is still only a Space Marine. Do NOT make stupid
stories just because you think GK's need a equivalent of the Nightbringer.

BrotherHaraldus wrote:He can't have defeated a primarch.

Dude, he carved his former master name in Primarch's Heart.
I think this count as "defeating" the Primarch.