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Brother Coa wrote:He does look nice killing Daemons in the Warp.

That's immense. Kudos.

Seaward wrote:

bombboy1252 wrote:
Has any psyker ever been in the warp before? I don't think so, but I'm not sure...

Not in physical form, no, as it's impossible to survive.

Just like the maze of Tzeentch leading to the Inevitable City is impossible to solve.

Draigo can do a lot of impossible things. It's the hallmark of any well-written character.

No, the hallmark of a well-written character is development. Impossible achievements are the hallmark of a ridiculous character.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:Just being in the warp isn't dangerous.

Yeah... we're done here.

Durza wrote:

Seaward wrote:

bombboy1252 wrote:
Has any psyker ever been in the warp before? I don't think so, but I'm not sure...

Not in physical form, no, as it's impossible to survive.

Just like the maze of Tzeentch leading to the Inevitable City is impossible to solve.

Draigo can do a lot of impossible things. It's the hallmark of any well-written character.

No, the hallmark of a well-written character is development. Impossible achievements are the hallmark of a ridiculous character.

It's possible I was being intensely sarcastic.

Seaward wrote:

Durza wrote:

Seaward wrote:

bombboy1252 wrote:
Has any psyker ever been in the warp before? I don't think so, but I'm not sure...

Not in physical form, no, as it's impossible to survive.

Just like the maze of Tzeentch leading to the Inevitable City is impossible to solve.

Draigo can do a lot of impossible things. It's the hallmark of any well-written character.

No, the hallmark of a well-written character is development. Impossible achievements are the hallmark of a ridiculous character.

It's possible I was being intensely sarcastic.

If you were, I'm sorry. But there are some people in this thread that said that sincerely before. And claimed that Ward writes good fluff.

Durza wrote:

Seaward wrote:

Durza wrote:

Seaward wrote:

bombboy1252 wrote:
Has any psyker ever been in the warp before? I don't think so, but I'm not sure...

Not in physical form, no, as it's impossible to survive.

Just like the maze of Tzeentch leading to the Inevitable City is impossible to solve.

Draigo can do a lot of impossible things. It's the hallmark of any well-written character.

No, the hallmark of a well-written character is development. Impossible achievements are the hallmark of a ridiculous character.

It's possible I was being intensely sarcastic.

If you were, I'm sorry. But there are some people in this thread that said that sincerely before. And claimed that Ward writes good fluff.

Really, I heard some people think Ward writes bad fluff...which is of course impossible...

And doesn't Magnus look into the warp, along with the Emperor (pre-heresy)

Looking into the Warp is not the same as being in it. You can look into a nuclear reactor from the other side of the protective barrier, but you wouldn't really want to be inside, would you?

Omegus wrote:Yes, it is that far-fetched. He's in the friggin' warp. His fluff is terribly written and he's a Mary Sue. That's what Matthew Ward does. It's okay, you'll get through this. Denial is always the first step.

I'm tired of arguing over this, you have your opinion on his fluff, and other people have theirs, theirs no "denial" everyone has their own opinion on it and I think it's best we leave it at that...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Durza wrote:Looking into the Warp is not the same as being in it. You can look into a nuclear reactor from the other side of the protective barrier, but you wouldn't really want to be inside, would you?

That makes sense I suppose, but as was stated earlier, couldn't the runes and such on his armor help protect him while walking through the Warp? Wouldn't his GK training help a bit? Wouldn't him being the "Supreme Grand Master" of these daemon killing knights help a bit?

It doesn't seem too far fetched, or "badly written" too me...as I said though, to each their own, we all have our opinions on if Draigo is fine, or if Draigo is terrible.

Just because everyone's entitled to their opinion, doesn't make it correct or even remotely based in reality.

I have to agree, he really is over the top. Slaying large amounts of greater deamons, yeah sure why not. Being flung into the warp for maybe a day or two and surviving with some serious woulds to show for it, sure. But he really was too much.

Durza wrote: And claimed that Ward writes good fluff.

To be honest not all of his fluff is bad. There are some good stories in there, but there are some who are OFF the scale so high that you need telescope to see the beginning.
HE does write good rules, no doubt about that ( exept few minor rules like flying Dreds and anti-plasma Grey Knight armor ).

Kanluwen wrote:
Kinda like a Daemon does, truth be told.

A Greater Daemon of the Emperor?
If he is a Daemon, then we just get an idea what they do during there down time, and for Draigomon its stomping around the warp.

Anything like that Sanguinor fellow, or am I way off base here?

Omegus wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:Just being in the warp isn't dangerous.

Yeah... we're done here.

No, really, it isn't. It's just that there's a pretty huge risk that you'll run into something unpleasant. Then there's Warp Storms, which have been proven to be survivable. BTW, if you're going to quote me I'd appreciate if you didn't lift the part you're quoting out of context.

Draigo is a grey knight. He is the leader of this daemon specialized astartes fighting force. He is not god, he is not instantly capable of knocking down entire daemon cities single handed without cracking his Armour, a rune on his Armour, or even his weapon. Just because he is the leader of the super human(still killable) daemon fighters dosen't mean he has the ability to walk through the warp chucking space molotovs. Remember the warp is super corruptive; now i do not know how the grey knights avoid falling to chaos but the difference between a grey knight falling to chaos and a grey knight drowning in the very essence of chaos are different things.

Are you to tell me your tragic character can wade into a sea of daemons inhabiting a chaos gods domain; and then proceed to smash them to pieces without getting flanked, back stabbed, or overrun.

No matter how good you want him to be his victories are impossible even for him. So he beat a daemon primarch that was already wounded? he also kicked its bodyguards apart. And the story came across as him being the most baddest of the bad asses. Why? I will explain later. So he walks around in the warp practicing gardening with Nurgle and interior redecorating with Tzeentchs IMPOSSIBLE fortress. So why should the realms of the gods be so impossible to survive? Well consider his wards. Made by humans. His Armour should have failed because no man made material can stand in the warp. His wards cannot protect him for ever and neither could a force field. Even the most powerful of his wardings should have FAILED to block out the corruption coming at it from the chaos gods domain. Forget just being in the warp remember he is in the direct domain of the chaos gods. So why is he able to do this and survive? explained below.





Don't make me start carding people.

NO WAY?! Ward is a bad writer? It's as if no one has ever said that.

Truth is truth.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Omegus wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:Just being in the warp isn't dangerous.

Yeah... we're done here.

No, really, it isn't. It's just that there's a pretty huge risk that you'll run into something unpleasant. Then there's Warp Storms, which have been proven to be survivable. BTW, if you're going to quote me I'd appreciate if you didn't lift the part you're quoting out of context.

So danger isn't dangerous then?

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Coolyo294 wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Arrrgh, these endless Draigo threads. Although, actually this is a pretty good one. I'm sorry ,but Draigo is not a tragic figure. In a way his story is a retcon just to show how super awesome he is. Previously, no one could actually go into the warp without horrible things happening to them. Just looking into the warp causes terrible things to happen to Navigators, a people breed just for that purpose. Yet, there goes Draigo actually living in the warp. He sleeps there, somehow eats and drinks there. Probably has afternoon tea too. The whole point is to show that he can beat the gods on their own turf.

The United Fanclubs of Darnath Lysander would like a word with you.

When did Lysander go into the Warp?

Disappeared in a Warp Storm, didn't he?

Anyhow, there's also the Space Wolves' 13th Company.

13th Company lives in the Eye of Terror which is not the Warp - it is a warpspace/realspace overlap. Not even Chaos Space Marines can live in the Warp. The only things in the whole universe that can live in Warp without a Gellar Field are chaos daemons, chaos gods and Kaldor Draigo.

Fanboy is obvious, very obvious.

Your entire post is screaming 'I THINKZ H3 IS DA BESTESTST INZ DA WORLDZ', seriously the entire character of Draigo is laughable. He's become what he hates, a Daemon. If a being resides in the warp, cannot leave without psychic energy or a warp storm he's a Daemon. He may destroy these godly structures and beings but they will never stand die for ever, he's stuck killing Daemons over and over again for eternity but it will do nothing.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Omegus wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:Just being in the warp isn't dangerous.

Yeah... we're done here.

No, really, it isn't. It's just that there's a pretty huge risk that you'll run into something unpleasant. Then there's Warp Storms, which have been proven to be survivable. BTW, if you're going to quote me I'd appreciate if you didn't lift the part you're quoting out of context.

No, it is. Even if you ignore the wildlife, the warp is insanely dangerous. It is a universe where the laws of physics don't apply, the same physics which allow Draigo's biological processes to function and which keeps the atoms of his armor from flying apart. Just look at what happens to space hulks due to their time in the warp.

Unless someone, somewhere writes a 'Science of the Warp' book, I'm willing to accept Draigo Mad-Maxing it around hell, just getting into fist fights with gods and making sandwiches with his mind.

You've got a dude that's risen to the highest rank in the toughest sect of super-psychic-badasses that were hand crafted by the king-badass because he knew what was coming down the pike, in a universe where being an epic badass is just enough to squeak by.

I mean damn, it's not like you read Silver Surfer comics and say "this character is totally unrealistic".

That's because before the Silver Surfer came along, no one said 'If anyone tries to surf on a silver board without mystical protection, their soul will be devoured by ravenous daemons.'

And the guy that occupied that rank before Draigo got murdered in front of him. So it's not really a justification for his fluff.

Kanluwen wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:
Yes. Millions. Gellar fields breech and fail all the time. Over the last 30,000+ years all have died....except Draigo. Just looking into the warp can drive you insane. Specially bred mutants names navigators have a special eye just for this purpose. Just looking into that eye can kill you. That is how dangerous the imaterium is....except Draigo. Because......he's a tragic figure or something....

Actually, that is untrue.

Not all have died, and Navigators aren't the only ones who can "look into the Warp". They're the only ones who can safely look at it for extended periods of time and guide ships through it.

Truth be told it's almost like they navigate or something...

Simply put, by this point in time I'm fairly convinced that there is no 'physical' Draigo. Every time he shows up, he shows up exactly how Daemons do at Warp Breaches: he just shows up, no possession necessary. All we are seeing whenever he shows up to fight is a kind of Draigodaemon, his soul manifesting itself through sheer force of will upon the real world.

Kinda like a Daemon does, truth be told.

Actually that is true.

Some folks may have been in the warp for a few minutes aboard a ship and survived but no one has actually lived there. You're being disingenous.

bombboy1252 wrote:

Jackster wrote:Yes, he is a boring invincible god like Mary Sue, get over it already.

Wanna know who else is a boring, invincible, god like Mary Sue...

The 4 chaos gods, I mean they never die, their god like, and I can't for the life of me find a flaw in any of them due to their godly nature...

40k is filled with...as you say "Mary Sues" so "get over it already"

Yeah, it's totally reasonable that Draigo is as powerful as a chaos god. Glad we straightened that out.

blood reaper wrote:

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Coolyo294 wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Arrrgh, these endless Draigo threads. Although, actually this is a pretty good one. I'm sorry ,but Draigo is not a tragic figure. In a way his story is a retcon just to show how super awesome he is. Previously, no one could actually go into the warp without horrible things happening to them. Just looking into the warp causes terrible things to happen to Navigators, a people breed just for that purpose. Yet, there goes Draigo actually living in the warp. He sleeps there, somehow eats and drinks there. Probably has afternoon tea too. The whole point is to show that he can beat the gods on their own turf.

The United Fanclubs of Darnath Lysander would like a word with you.

When did Lysander go into the Warp?

Disappeared in a Warp Storm, didn't he?

Anyhow, there's also the Space Wolves' 13th Company.

13th Company lives in the Eye of Terror which is not the Warp - it is a warpspace/realspace overlap. Not even Chaos Space Marines can live in the Warp. The only things in the whole universe that can live in Warp without a Gellar Field are chaos daemons, chaos gods and Kaldor Draigo.

Fanboy is obvious, very obvious.

Fanboy? Me? I think you misunderstand. My position is that, yes, Draigo does things that no other being in the setting (with the exception of gods) past or present can/could do. He takes on the most powerful beings in the setting on their own turf and wins without breaking a sweat. There is literally nothing in the entire universe that can stand up to Draigo's might. The only thing he has yet to do is kill a Chaos god and that is only because he hasn't fought one yet. As such Draigo is the textbook definition of a Godmode Sue.

Therefore, Kaldor Draigo is a horrible horrible horrible character, quite possibly the worst thing ever crafted or excreted by man or beast since the evolution of the tetrapod, and as such Matt Ward should feel very very very bad about himself for his epic failure as a human being.

That we agree, the worst character part from the Space Pope in the 41st millennium.

I don't think you should have gone to all that effort to explain. I would have dismissed any concerns after being called a fanboy. A fan of what, exactly?

iproxtaco wrote:I don't think you should have gone to all that effort to explain. I would have dismissed any concerns after being called a fanboy. A fan of what, exactly?

Seemed like Dragio, my mistake.

blood reaper wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:I don't think you should have gone to all that effort to explain. I would have dismissed any concerns after being called a fanboy. A fan of what, exactly?

Seemed like Dragio, my mistake.

Which is like being called a fanboy of Jar-Jar Binks or child molesters; I'd go to great lengths to explain why I wasn't, too.

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

bombboy1252 wrote:

Jackster wrote:Yes, he is a boring invincible god like Mary Sue, get over it already.

Wanna know who else is a boring, invincible, god like Mary Sue...

The 4 chaos gods, I mean they never die, their god like, and I can't for the life of me find a flaw in any of them due to their godly nature...

40k is filled with...as you say "Mary Sues" so "get over it already"

Yeah, it's totally reasonable that Draigo is as powerful as a chaos god. Glad we straightened that out.

Kudos for you for missing my point entirely....


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Omegus wrote:Truth is truth.

Opinion is opinion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Omegus wrote:Just because everyone's entitled to their opinion, doesn't make it correct or even remotely based in reality.

An opinion can never be *correct* and I don't understand what you mean by based in reality? Are you saying if you like Draigo that is an unrealistic opinion?

Your strong emotions, for and against, only make Draigo stronger. That is the way of the warp. Reason doesn't matter. All Draigo needs is you psychic energy directed towards him. Rage on. Increase his might. Draigo protects you in the name of the Emperor.

Radiation wrote:Your strong emotions, for and against, only make Draigo stronger. That is the way of the warp. Reason doesn't matter. All Draigo needs is you psychic energy directed towards him. Rage on. Increase his might. Draigo protects you in the name of the Emperor.

Ya, I really like Radiation

Your funny...