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You can hark on about how opinions can never be wrong all you want, it wont make people disagree any less.

Fun fact though - opinions can be wrong if they're based off incorrect information.

bombboy1252 wrote:

Radiation wrote:Your strong emotions, for and against, only make Draigo stronger. That is the way of the warp. Reason doesn't matter. All Draigo needs is you psychic energy directed towards him. Rage on. Increase his might. Draigo protects you in the name of the Emperor.

Ya, I really like Radiation

Your funny...

Thank you. Stay strong in your beliefs about Draigo, whatever they may be.

iproxtaco wrote:You can hark on about how opinions can never be wrong all you want, it wont make people disagree any less.

Fun fact though - opinions can be wrong if they're based off incorrect information.

I didn't think I was "harking" I was just saying, everyone entitled to their opinion...no need to get all defensive...

bombboy1252 wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:You can hark on about how opinions can never be wrong all you want, it wont make people disagree any less.

Fun fact though - opinions can be wrong if they're based off incorrect information.

I didn't think I was "harking" I was just saying, everyone entitled to their opinion...no need to get all defensive...

Cool story bro, if you say so (that's sarcasm, I wasn't being defensive). And yes, you were harking on about how it's your opinion, which doesn't mean people shouldn't point out how they think you're wrong.

Harking? Like, listening? I don't understand. Do you mean harping?

Hark the herald angels siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiing...

I think it's a safe assumption he meant harping.

junk wrote:Harking? Like, listening? I don't understand. Do you mean harping?

I had to look on urbandictionary, harking is now considered like, badgering and saying things angrily...

Durza wrote:Hark the herald angels siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiing...

I think it's a safe assumption he meant harping.

No I meant harking. It's probably just a term used around here, but it means to repeat something a lot. It means the same thing as harping, really. We scots are a fickle bunch, dinnie lisin tae whit a soatsmin taels ya, hell hae is and' in yer pockit.

Back on topic please. This has nothing to do with Draigo and so does not help him in his WarpQuest.

He doesn't need any help.

Re: harking - Cool. First useful thing I've learned from warhammer... second actually, i've also learned that statistics have no bearing on reality and probability is an illusion.

Re: Draigo vs. the Warp - In order to accept what Ward has written, what explanation can we invent that will allow Draigo to be acceptable? E.g. There seems to be less resistance to the idea that the entire planet of Titan could be hidden in the warp for an eon, maybe the GK developed their aegis during this time to withstand the warp?

Titan's got a gellar field iirc.

Well, how do Orks survive warp travel without a gellar field? And what is a gellar field made of?
Can a gellar field be generated psychically?

No. Gellar fields are made of....gellars. That are made in a..... gellar field generator. Pretty sure Orks have Gellar fields too. They have a good understanding of the warp. They have some of the best teleportation tech in the galaxy. But they probably call theirs...Fields of orkyness or something.

BrotherHaraldus wrote:I do not see why there is so much arguing about this. Sure, Mat Ward made a mistake, both lorewise and gamewise (he is BOTH harder than lysander, and really strong too???), especially in the lore. He can't have defeated a primarch. sure, he might be the strongest grey knight (so far) but he is still only a Space Marine. Do NOT make stupid
stories just because you think GK's need a equivalent of the Nightbringer.

Horus lost to Constantin Valdor (Custodes) in a sparring match. I like to think if he could do that then Draigo (just as strong as Constantin but is strong psyker/daemon hunter) could kill a primarch/daemon prince.

I do believe that he is a sort of Draigodaemon now as was stated earlier and no longer has a true body in the materium and is sort of like the Sanguinor, and this would result in him not being able to perish in the warp.

The creatures in the warp only exist because of the Ancient Ones children and their link to the Immaterium. When the belief in something becomes strong enough it wills it's self to be in the Immaterium.

Draigo is possibly so incorruptible that he exists because of sheer will power in that he believes he is immune to Chaos/the Warp? (This last phrase isnt something I believe just contemplating).

Okay, so gellar fields are made in a gellar field generator and they're made out of gellars, got it, so there's a solid foundation in science there. I guess we can just rest on that explanation.

Or:

The warp is a dimension of pure psychic energy. Gellar fields somehow buffer material from the immaterium, so some component of the gellar field must be operating on the same level as the psychic energy of the warp.

If we're willing to accept all the other pseudo-science of the 40k universe, it's not really that much of a stretch to imagine that a powerful psyker (one trained by a system designed specifically by the emperor in order to combat denizens of the warp) could buffer himself with a similar effect generated psychically.

DRAIGOMON! SANGUINORMON! GO! THE EMPEROR OF MAN CHOOSES YOU!

More and more Daemons of the God Emperor, the Chaos God who seeks the destruction of the other Chaos Gods (AND THE PLOT THICKENS (this time with lawsuits over the Emperor's likeness to a character taken from the setting by his creator).

FTHDace wrote:

BrotherHaraldus wrote:I do not see why there is so much arguing about this. Sure, Mat Ward made a mistake, both lorewise and gamewise (he is BOTH harder than lysander, and really strong too???), especially in the lore. He can't have defeated a primarch. sure, he might be the strongest grey knight (so far) but he is still only a Space Marine. Do NOT make stupid
stories just because you think GK's need a equivalent of the Nightbringer.

Horus lost to Constantin Valdor (Custodes) in a sparring match. I like to think if he could do that then Draigo (just as strong as Constantin but is strong psyker/daemon hunter) could kill a primarch/daemon prince.

I do believe that he is a sort of Draigodaemon now as was stated earlier and no longer has a true body in the materium and is sort of like the Sanguinor, and this would result in him not being able to perish in the warp.

The creatures in the warp only exist because of the Ancient Ones children and their link to the Immaterium. When the belief in something becomes strong enough it wills it's self to be in the Immaterium.

Draigo is possibly so incorruptible that he exists because of sheer will power in that he believes he is immune to Chaos/the Warp? (This last phrase isnt something I believe just contemplating).

Might be a Mork field... Or is it Gork?

Well, it's not 100% that the Sanguinor is actually a daemon, or even real; he could be a psychic manifestation of the Blood Angels, he could be one of Sanguinius' honor guard that's survived and is now just James Bonding around the galaxy, helping out his bros. Who knows. Hell, he could be a daemon of Tzeentch playing the long game and attempting to lead the Blood Angels into a fall - it's happened before.

There's ambiguity to the Sanguinor. There's really not any to Draigo, unless you read heavily, heavily into it, and don't take Ward at his word.

edit remove this post.

junk wrote:Okay, so gellar fields are made in a gellar field generator and they're made out of gellars, got it, so there's a solid foundation in science there. I guess we can just rest on that explanation.

Or:

The warp is a dimension of pure psychic energy. Gellar fields somehow buffer material from the immaterium, so some component of the gellar field must be operating on the same level as the psychic energy of the warp.

If we're willing to accept all the other pseudo-science of the 40k universe, it's not really that much of a stretch to imagine that a powerful psyker (one trained by a system designed specifically by the emperor in order to combat denizens of the warp) could buffer himself with a similar effect generated psychically.

Sure, for 2 minutes.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

junk wrote:Okay, so gellar fields are made in a gellar field generator and they're made out of gellars, got it, so there's a solid foundation in science there. I guess we can just rest on that explanation.

Or:

The warp is a dimension of pure psychic energy. Gellar fields somehow buffer material from the immaterium, so some component of the gellar field must be operating on the same level as the psychic energy of the warp.

If we're willing to accept all the other pseudo-science of the 40k universe, it's not really that much of a stretch to imagine that a powerful psyker (one trained by a system designed specifically by the emperor in order to combat denizens of the warp) could buffer himself with a similar effect generated psychically.

Sure, for as long as he wants because he's Draigo.

That's more accurate...

How would you even come to the conclusion that he could only do it for about 2 minuets? He is a powerful Grey Knight, and a powerful psyker...for all we know he could just have his "Draigo Gellar Field" up constantly.

Draigo walks the righteous path through the Warp. Wasn't this what the Emperor was preparing humanity for? The Imperium of Man is supposed to be at the crossroads to something like this. The Corpse God is not going to reincarnate and coddle the weak. But the universe is a big place and, whatever happens, you will not be missed. Men are supposed to master the Warp and no longer need rely on him. They will be strong enough to protect themselves against the predations of the false gods. Aren't these the original teachings? Man is on the threshold of a psychic transformation. Sounds like Draigo made the jump.

Draigo cares nothing about your weak and pathetic attempts at disbelief. Your thoughts only serve to expand his mythos, even the more heretical systems of faith represented here.

Regardless you all project your minds far into the future and there is much accomplishment in that. But you do so as followers of Ward despite your hatred for him. Wardian Mysticism is the doctrine that you debate when you elaborate on these future visions. Your cries of proper sciece or dogmatic cannon fall on deaf ears and blind eyes. Beware the propaganda and the false profits. The alien, the mutant, the heretic are ever present.

Radiation wrote:Draigo walks the righteous path through the Warp. Wasn't this what the Emperor was preparing humanity for? The Imperium of Man is supposed to be at the crossroads to something like this. The Corpse God is not going to reincarnate and coddle the weak. But the universe is a big place and, whatever happens, you will not be missed. Men are supposed to master the Warp and no longer need rely on him. They will be strong enough to protect themselves against the predations of the false gods. Aren't these the original teachings? Man is on the threshold of a psychic transformation. Sounds like Draigo made the jump.

Draigo cares nothing about your weak and pathetic attempts at disbelief. Your thoughts only serve to expand his mythos, even the more heretical systems of faith represented here.

Regardless you all project your minds far into the future and there is much accomplishment in that. But you do so as followers of Ward despite your hatred for him. Wardian Mysticism is the doctrine that you debate when you elaborate on these future visions. Your cries of proper sciece or dogmatic cannon fall on deaf ears and blind eyes. Beware the propaganda and the false profits. The alien, the mutant, the heretic are ever present.

This wins!

Radiation wrote:Draigo walks the righteous path through the Warp. Wasn't this what the Emperor was preparing humanity for? The Imperium of Man is supposed to be at the crossroads to something like this. The Corpse God is not going to reincarnate and coddle the weak. But the universe is a big place and, whatever happens, you will not be missed. Men are supposed to master the Warp and no longer need rely on him. They will be strong enough to protect themselves against the predations of the false gods. Aren't these the original teachings? Man is on the threshold of a psychic transformation. Sounds like Draigo made the jump.

Draigo cares nothing about your weak and pathetic attempts at disbelief. Your thoughts only serve to expand his mythos, even the more heretical systems of faith represented here.

Regardless you all project your minds far into the future and there is much accomplishment in that. But you do so as followers of Ward despite your hatred for him. Wardian Mysticism is the doctrine that you debate when you elaborate on these future visions. Your cries of proper sciece or dogmatic cannon fall on deaf ears and blind eyes. Beware the propaganda and the false profits. The alien, the mutant, the heretic are ever present.

Exalted!

FTHDace wrote:Horus lost to Constantin Valdor (Custodes) in a sparring match.

Where did this actually happen?

Forgive my vehement disbelief at this, but in my defense the notion of Horus losing to Constantin is both incredibly stupid and seems to have no evidence put forth other than warhammer40 wikia. And I don't trust wikis, especially when there is no citation. And the only other person I've heard seriously claim this also happens to be the biggest Custodian fanboy in the history of 40k fandom, while also being famously unreliable in terms of his interpretations of the fluff.

Radiation wrote:Draigo walks the righteous path through the Warp. Wasn't this what the Emperor was preparing humanity for? The Imperium of Man is supposed to be at the crossroads to something like this. The Corpse God is not going to reincarnate and coddle the weak. But the universe is a big place and, whatever happens, you will not be missed. Men are supposed to master the Warp and no longer need rely on him. They will be strong enough to protect themselves against the predations of the false gods. Aren't these the original teachings? Man is on the threshold of a psychic transformation. Sounds like Draigo made the jump.

Draigo cares nothing about your weak and pathetic attempts at disbelief. Your thoughts only serve to expand his mythos, even the more heretical systems of faith represented here.

Regardless you all project your minds far into the future and there is much accomplishment in that. But you do so as followers of Ward despite your hatred for him. Wardian Mysticism is the doctrine that you debate when you elaborate on these future visions. Your cries of proper sciece or dogmatic cannon fall on deaf ears and blind eyes. Beware the propaganda and the false profits. The alien, the mutant, the heretic are ever present.

Now I really REALLY like Radiation

Exalted!

AlmightyWalrus wrote:And Enslavers. And the Eldar Gods. Etc. Etc. Etc.

Enslavers are not prone to being mutated and having their very existence compromised by the Warp. And the Eldar gods are... You know, gods.

Oh, and considering that quite a few psychic powers, such as Bolt of Change, do nothing more than expose you to the raw Warp, being in the Warp in of itself is very dangerous.

Considering how the true name of a daemon is something the Chaos Gods use to control their servants in, you know, the Warp, I don't see why they wouldn't work there.

Considering that the True Name is just something created by the gods to, you know, bind them to them, and using it in the Materium is used to weaken their attachment on it, I'm not sure we can say that it would work in there for sure.

Also, Gellar Fields work by projecting a field that keeps daemons out of the ship, yes? Huh, what do you know, sounds an awful lot like the wards in Aegis armour to me. Is it that far-fetched that the wards of the Supreme Grand Master's suit of relic terminator armour would be able to defend him?

Aegis Armour doesn't make you completely immune to the power of the Warp. Nor is it necessarily the equivelant of a Gellar Field. That's an assumption, a big one at that.

junk wrote:Re: Draigo vs. the Warp - In order to accept what Ward has written, what explanation can we invent that will allow Draigo to be acceptable? E.g. There seems to be less resistance to the idea that the entire planet of Titan could be hidden in the warp for an eon, maybe the GK developed their aegis during this time to withstand the warp?

All Grey Knights have the potential to traverse the warp without a Gellar Field. This is already alluded to in C:GK on page 28, under the Interceptors entry.

FTHDace wrote:Horus lost to Constantin Valdor (Custodes) in a sparring match. I like to think if he could do that then Draigo (just as strong as Constantin but is strong psyker/daemon hunter) could kill a primarch/daemon prince.

Unfortunately though the part about Horus vs Valdor is fanfiction. It's not in the BL novels and I've never seen anyone able to provide another paged source for it.

FTHDace wrote:Horus lost to Constantin Valdor (Custodes) in a sparring match.

This is garbage and lies. The only place I've ever seen this stated is on the internet, and when asked for a source, any source at all, all I get in response is sheepish silence. The very concept is ludicrous.

junk wrote:If we're willing to accept all the other pseudo-science of the 40k universe, it's not really that much of a stretch to imagine that a powerful psyker (one trained by a system designed specifically by the emperor in order to combat denizens of the warp) could buffer himself with a similar effect generated psychically.

Sure, possibly. But to do so indefinitely, while ransacking the very domains of the Chaos Gods, slaughtering literally endless hordes of daemons, and crushing the most powerful daemonic entities on their home turf with your bare hands?

Radiation wrote:deaf ears and blind eyes

You got that right.