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True, but is there an IG player that actually use their ST for something else than suicide drops w/ melta in a squad of 5?

After all, IG is about numbers no? There should be a good reason to take a full squad of ST.

Sieggfried wrote:To all those who want WS4 for vets or stromies, 3+ saves, T4 or STR4 and even both, to those who want beefed up Hellguns and the lot just go buy yourselves some Mehreens and stop playing IG.

So, by this logic: To all those who want to play a WW2 style army with massed infantry and tanks marching ever onwards, destroying its enemies with shooting, arty and numbers just go buy yourselves some Flames of War and stop playing IG.

Sieggfried wrote:I reckon its completely pointless to expect a buffed human with the stats of a superhuman (SM doh).

Platoon Commanders are superhuman? Because they are WS4 and as far as i know, they are just random guys appointed to officer rank.

Sieggfried wrote:In the grim darkness of the far future where there's plenty of aliens of untold malice, foul creatures of the worst kind and mere humans are going to war with nothing more than a cardboard vest and a flashlight, well all they got to compensate for is numbers. QQ or change army lads..

Oh come on, when you pitch something against over-the-top stuff and you except to win with that something, then you except over-the-over-the-top from that something. Because frankly, this IG compensating with numbers thing is ridiculous. I mean, we have Orks... Outnumber them please...

Squidmanlolz wrote:

Bobthehero wrote:I'd give a 4 WS to the ST, as it is said that they have some augmententations, not as much as a space marine for sure, but enough to make difference agaisn't a regular guardsman.

Hot-shot lasguns are pretty fething strong with an AP3, rapid firing them with 3+ to hit just wouldn't be fair, a squad of stormtroopers could wipe out squads of SM without any major problems.

Erm... stormtroopers have Bs4, so they hit on 3+ with their AP3 guns, meaning that they totally rip through thousands of marines with their overpowered weapons of awesome... or maybe the following three things mean that they suck?
1: S3
2: Cover
3: 16ppm

S3 is the big one there. Though against non-MEQ they're even deadlier.
In a recent 3-way game, I deep-striked 3 kaskrin squads with meltaguns slap bang into an eldar army. I'd already blown up all the vehicles with other shooting so they just had to shoot the eldar troops, unfortunately 1 S8 shot wasn't as effective as 2 S3 shots.
But against marines it definately limits their effectiveness.

Squidmanlolz wrote:

Bobthehero wrote:I'd give a 4 WS to the ST, as it is said that they have some augmententations, not as much as a space marine for sure, but enough to make difference agaisn't a regular guardsman.

Hot-shot lasguns are pretty fething strong with an AP3, rapid firing them with 3+ to hit just wouldn't be fair, a squad of stormtroopers could wipe out squads of SM without any major problems.

Just to show you that ST's are basically useless when not doing melta-suicide:
A full squad of squad of ST's worth 205+ points deepstrike (succesfully, within range, out of cover) behind a backfield unit of broadsides/lootas/longfangs/devastators/havocs (of course in cover) and fire their hot-shot lasguns (8x2 shots minus two special weapons). 10,6 hit, 3,5 wound, 1,7 enemy troopers die. I they have plasma guns, they will kill 1 when the enemy is in cover, if equipped with meltas, they will kill 0,6 enemy trooper. The enemy unit worth about the same point value fire back with their deffguns/missile launchers/heavy bolters/autocannons at the stormtroopers out of cover and probably anihilate the entire squad. If the ST controlling player wants to risk deepstriking in cover, he will only loose half the squad in the enemy shooting phase, but he will kill even less of the enemy squad due to guys dying to dangerous terrain, and just be anihilated a turn later instead. Either way, it does not end in wiping out the enemy squad at all. For the same points cost, a LRBT could do more damage against the enemy squad from across the board and don't nessesarily die to enemy fire right away.
As a response to other guys ranting: I don't want stormtroopers to be space marines at all, or even die-hard killing machines, I just want them to be somewhat usefull in an agressive role that does not lead to suicide. I do not nessesarily want them to be better, being cheaper would also be good enough for me, but right now, they cost the same as space marines, and are nowhere near as good as a simple tactical squad.

yeah, a price drop would help a lot more than a stat increase (imho). The guard are usually a defensive army, they usually work well when jumping from cover to cover or holding fortified objectives, I personally like this in game, it also fits the fluff of guardsmen being terribly weak without cover. You can also consider IG as a sort of swarm army, you may need to use expendable platoons of low powe troops to protect higer value units like vets.

Cheaper plastic Ogryn boxes. The Bone 'ed should be able to take a lascannon, autocannon or a ripper pistol and power weapon.

I think the Bonehead should be able to take Earthsaker cannon with Monstrous creature CCW and +1 A for it, cmon then be realistic

[ Taken by the void dragon. [

It would maybe fun fluffwise, since in Imperial Glory novel an Ogryn was carrying an autocannon as long as its owner, but still a melee unit with an autocannon wouldnt offer much

Id make It able to have any combo of valks/vendettas not just squads of one of each kind only. As well as beefing up the chimera. Like maybe make it able to repair itself, it being all resilient and everything.

Also Make Manticore squadrons of 2, Unique tech priest character and leman russ tank squads count as troops, much like deathwing counts as troops.

Deathwing are aLOT different from LR squadrons. Imagine the look on a persons face as they ask where your platoons are, and you politely inform them that you are instead taking 2 or 3 HS LR as Troops, along with a few in HS itself.

make the punisher twinlinked heavy 20, more likely to get good amount of shots hitting. simple buff which might make it worthwhile a bit more (plus small price drop of say 30 points?).

buff ogryns to have 2 autocannons or something per squad or give them massive shields for cover saves to allow them to get into hand to hand safer?

Ratlings, give them a lasr pointer type effect where if they shoot at a unit (even if can't hurt it) artillery either rerolls scatter if you want, or becomes a hit (second option might need toyed with as quite powerful).

deathstrike launchers need something to make them appeal as much as manticores. maybe make it you get to choose when to fire the shot but never on turn 1, meaning you have to wait 1 turn before getting option to fire it allowing enemy to spread out.

instead of buffing the chimera maybe add in another heavier armoured transport? say 12/12/11 comes with 2x autocannon on a turret or TL autocannon.

Add a new transport for assault guard say 13/12/10 no top hatch, but comes with assault ramp and can contain 35 guardsmen max, meaning you can blob up 30 men a commissar or 2 and priest or hq lord commi.

I like the quarter maste ridea for advisor. maybe make him allow D3 squads to become twinlinked or gain 1 extra shot than normally allowed, or even 1 gun fires twice, but doesn't work on artillery to keep from masses of blasts appearing?

Stormtroopers need buffed I agree, maybe make them never scatter when deepstriking to add the elite aspct and also making them much more reliable. also maybe a ''Well trained'' rule that lets them reroll dangerous terrain if dropping into cover?

Rough riders maybe allow them to always use the lance on firs tround of combat not just first charge. also maybe allow them to ''turbo boost'' 19 inches to allow them move speed?

maybe make the TL autocannon russ into a TL lascannon russ to give it a non competing with hydras role? means giving it a hull lascannon really helps its anti tank.

lord commi should get a buff ot make him more than a take for camo cloak option. maybe make him an upgrade for command squads for more CC and a commissar type buff to the army?

primis psyker needs more powers, then he could be of more use? maybe if him and a astropath are on the table you can control when you want reserves, no rolling due to such a well sorted psychic signal?

allow sgts to take lasguns,

alter how wounds effect heavy weapon teams so you don't lose entire stands to single lascannon shots etc, so people will use them more. maybe even a 4+ one crew member dies not both? or give them the option of fortified to add cover save. maybe +1 to make for 3+ saves

My thoughts are in all the colours.

Duce wrote:make the punisher twinlinked heavy 20, more likely to get good amount of shots hitting. simple buff which might make it worthwhile a bit more (plus small price drop of say 30 points?).

I would say one or the other. Points drop would be better, as the Punisher is not TL. Besides, TL H20 means 15~ hits at Str 5. That is going to shred any horde worth their Fleshboror, Shoota/Lasguns. Combined with -30pts is going to make it the premium in Anti Infantry, and make Hellhounds and such irrelavent other than for extremly low points, or places like CoD where cover saves are all the rage.

buff ogryns to have 2 autocannons or something per squad or give them massive shields for cover saves to allow them to get into hand to hand safer?

SS might be a bit OP, so maybe a Combat Shiled, so a 6++? If you want cover, go with a 5+ cover. For modelling you could use Rhino front plates and Land Raider dorrs, and Chimera hatches and the like.

Ratlings, give them a lasr pointer type effect where if they shoot at a unit (even if can't hurt it) artillery either rerolls scatter if you want, or becomes a hit (second option might need toyed with as quite powerful).

Why not just give them a watered down Markerlight?

deathstrike launchers need something to make them appeal as much as manticores. maybe make it you get to choose when to fire the shot but never on turn 1, meaning you have to wait 1 turn before getting option to fire it allowing enemy to spread out

How about you have to note what turn you want to come in on, like with the Scheduled Bombardment in Apoc and each Weapon destroyed, or destroyed result delays it 1 turn?

instead of buffing the chimera maybe add in another heavier armoured transport? say 12/12/11 comes with 2x autocannon on a turret or TL autocannon.

I don't have an opinion.

Add a new transport for assault guard say 13/12/10 no top hatch, but comes with assault ramp and can contain 35 guardsmen max, meaning you can blob up 30 men a commissar or 2 and priest or hq lord commi.


Not, definately not. Nothing outside of Apoc should be able to carry that much. Not only that but it would break Objective games. 30 troop models flying around in 13/12/11 transport, controlling any objectives, then having a full blob to kill to clear it.

I like the quarter maste ridea for advisor. maybe make him allow D3 squads to become twinlinked or gain 1 extra shot than normally allowed, or even 1 gun fires twice, but doesn't work on artillery to keep from masses of blasts appearing?

I don't have an opinion.

Stormtroopers need buffed I agree, maybe make them never scatter when deepstriking to add the elite aspct and also making them much more reliable. also maybe a ''Well trained'' rule that lets them reroll dangerous terrain if dropping into cover?

One or the other, one or the other.

Rough riders maybe allow them to always use the lance on firs tround of combat not just first charge. also maybe allow them to ''turbo boost'' 19 inches to allow them move speed?

The lances are hard to maneuver around, but easy when charging to spear someone. But not turbo boost. 18" move+fleet+charge?

maybe make the TL autocannon russ into a TL lascannon russ to give it a non competing with hydras role? means giving it a hull lascannon really helps its anti tank.

There is already a TL LC LR. It is the Leman Russ Annihilator from FW.

lord commi should get a buff ot make him more than a take for camo cloak option. maybe make him an upgrade for command squads for more CC and a commissar type buff to the army?

I prefer him the way he is.

primis psyker needs more powers, then he could be of more use? maybe if him and a astropath are on the table you can control when you want reserves, no rolling due to such a well sorted psychic signal?

Maybe if there is Astropaths on the tale, you get +1 ior -1 reserves for each Astropath over the first. And he can extend the range of a PBS' powers by 6" if he joins them.

allow sgts to take lasguns,

Yes. Give it to them as a standard. Like saying they have a Lasgun or laspistol.

alter how wounds effect heavy weapon teams so you don't lose entire stands to single lascannon shots etc, so people will use them more. maybe even a 4+ one crew member dies not both? or give them the option of fortified to add cover save. maybe +1 to make for 3+ saves

Just limit them to being ID by weapons that have Blasts/Templates.

oooo pretty colors

xSoulgrinderx wrote:Id make It able to have any combo of valks/vendettas not just squads of one of each kind only. As well as beefing up the chimera. Like maybe make it able to repair itself, it being all resilient and everything.

Also Make Manticore squadrons of 2, Unique tech priest character and leman russ tank squads count as troops, much like deathwing counts as troops.

While we're at it, lets drop gaurdsman down to three points, you can't really take a proper hoard as it is now. Also, give blobs free powerweapons, and let hydra squadrons shoot as multiple targets. Vendettas should also get the option for lascannon sponsons, they get the option for anti-hoard sponsons, they need anti-tank ones too! Also, lower manticore ap to 1, they can't really take out marines very well at the moment. And, hey, just drop the points for all the tanks by 15. Sounds fair, right?

loota boy wrote:

xSoulgrinderx wrote:Id make It able to have any combo of valks/vendettas not just squads of one of each kind only. As well as beefing up the chimera. Like maybe make it able to repair itself, it being all resilient and everything.

Also Make Manticore squadrons of 2, Unique tech priest character and leman russ tank squads count as troops, much like deathwing counts as troops.

While we're at it, lets drop gaurdsman down to three points, you can't really take a proper hoard as it is now. Also, give blobs free powerweapons, and let hydra squadrons shoot as multiple targets. Vendettas should also get the option for lascannon sponsons, they get the option for anti-hoard sponsons, they need anti-tank ones too! Also, lower manticore ap to 1, they can't really take out marines very well at the moment. And, hey, just drop the points for all the tanks by 15. Sounds fair, right?

Also commissars should be free.
And taking Master of Ordinance should mean nothing ever scatters.
And Master of Ordinance should free.

Ogryns shouyld have Str 8, T 8, W10, and a rerollable 2+/2++, with a rerollable 2+ FNP that cannot be cancelled, for 20pts. They are that resilient.
Leman Russ Punishers should have BS 10 and H100. You cannot fire that many shots and miss more than a handfull.

Creed should automatically allow you to pass all orders, within a 10000" bubble you gain every USR except Vulknerable to blats/Templates, SNP and Swarms.

They should be able to take 1 Emperor Titan for free, per 500pts in the game.

Special Charector-Private Baldrick

WS-1
BS-1
S-1
T-1
I-1
Ld-4
Equipment-lasrifle, las pistol, CCW
Special Rules-Cunning plan
Cunning Plan
Private Baldrick may attempt a Cunning Plan once per game at the start of a friendly unit's shooting phase.
When Cunning Plan is used, roll a D6. On 2-6 Private Baldrick's plan fails and he is executed for being an idiot. On a 1 Private Baldrick's plan succeeds, D6 enemy units (including monsterous creatures and vehicles) are removed by the friendly player.
Baldrick is such an arse that should his plan succeed, he will find a way of getting himself killed in the process. Remove Private Baldrick from play even if his plan succeeded.

Right.
Heavy weapons teams.

I have been thinking about them more since last time.

They should have more options, they should definitely get the option of these standard weapons:
Multilaser
Assault cannon
Multi-melta
Heavy stubber
Plasma cannon
Heavy flamer

How about some new ones too?
GMG, grenade machine gun - like the special weapon but heavy 3 with a slight range buff.
HK missile, single use then they can only use their lasguns.

Same setup, 2 wounds, can only be instant killed by template weapons.

How about this:
Heavy weapons teams get relentless but only if they still have 2 wounds.
The fluff would be that when there are two of them they are a slick unit, well trained with the skills and drills to put down massive volumes of fire.
When one of them gets taken out the gun still works but it is much harder for one guy to get set up when his unit is on the move.

Maybe even let them shoot twice if they have 2 wounds.

*EDIT*

I suppose then it wouldn't be relentless, it would be:
Skills and drills: While the heavy weapons team still has 2 wounds all heavy weapons count as rapid-fire.

Perhaps make that a totally new thing called a Veteran Heavy Weapons Team, access to more weapon types, few more points and Skills and drills.
Heavy weapons embedded in Veteran squads are automatically Veteran Heavy Weapons Teams.

I really like the sound of that.

Maybe sniper rifles could be rapid fire, however lose they "sniper" rules within 12" so it would be a little bit more similar to a lasgun, they are based of of the standard lasgun design.

1st post to Dakka ever, hallo to everybody.
I read all previous posts and I found ideas I really love so I included them again together with mines, no offence intended to their actual owners (I still have to figure out how to quote).


HQ
- orders stay, it's a very good system
- reduce cost of commissar lord. Nice model, nice idea, overcosted
- reduce cost of priest. Nice model, nice idea, overcosted. Allow him to join ogryns.
- Special characters: Schaffer, Kage, Gaunt and I really love the idea of Cain and Jurgen exaclty as posted, just give Jurgen BS 4 as he's a very good shot!
- I don't think the name of the CCS or the PCS really matters, everybody can make up his own ranking system. That's just a placeholder.

ELITES
- ogryns: get rending or option for power weapon for bone head, maybe 5pt drop each.
- storm troopers: 12 points per model, definitely no WS 4 as I assume it's easier to be better shots than deadlier hth fighters. As somebody else already pointed out, their superior hth training is reflected by having pistol and ccw (and knowing how to use them together). Hellgun (not hotshot) need some change. First of all, it cannot be a (mediocre) marine hunting rifle but something to fight the most common enemies (fluff wise and not tabletop) which are not Chaos Space Marines: R18 S3 AP4 A2. This I think is the right compromise: more powerful than a lasgun, more useful than a bolter at mid range (12"-18") against most medium targets, less useful than a bolter at short range except for its intended targets (IMO, T4 TA4). Assault makes up for lack of range and allow for swift actions from STs.
Also no pre-purchase of Special Operation because the way it is now adds lots of flexibility. That's why cost 12 and not 10 each.


FAST ATTACK
- rough riders: if you want bikes just model them on bikes. I would not use the bikes rules though as it seems difficult to use a lance driving a bike. But allow I and S bonus in 1st round of any combat or give them laspistol AND ccw.
- Vendetta 30pts more expensive, maybe Heavy support choice
- sentinels: 1st squadron does not use the FOC slot
- armored sentinels: 10pts cheaper.
- Hounds family 20 pts cheaper.
- vendetta/valkyrie able to also fire side HBs free on the move and at separate targets. Otherwise useless cool addition to model .
- clear rules for Valk/vend sponsoon LOS angles



TROOPS
- chimera: introduce a version of old rule: 3 (only 1 side due to single target rules) lasgun fire from enclosed hull, 3 weapons may fire from top hatch but then counts as open topped for that turn. OR just 5-10 pts more expensive
- Chimera option for 11 side armor at extra cost (15-20 pts)
- storm bolter as special weapon (SAW like), just for fun
- heavy stubber heavy weapon
- multi laser heavy weapon?
- grenade launcher: A2. A1 would be ok with me but now is shadowed by other specials so needs some flavor.
- doctrines must come back to allow customization. Warning, need careful balancing. Definitely not codex spam as marines.
- HW squads are 2 model, allow removal of 3 loaders as it make sense to me that the loader would replace a OOA gunner. Or just give eternal warrior only to avoid silly ID, but sounds odd. Fix wrong grenades price (or remove, they don't need).
- conscripts: 1pt cheaper, flamer and GL option as 4th ED. Commissar as upgrade.
- all commissars can take fist
- penal legion: combined squads and choose the special rule
- vox casters: unlimited range of orders, still LOS is needed where applicable
- veterans are fine as they are, it is correct they have 3 special weapons and STs only 2 because veterans have "collected" them in the battlefield.
- lasgun option to sergeants
- shotgun option to everyone, just for converting fun and themed lists.
- off topic: shotguns, pistols and special weapons plastic sprue
- reduce costs of heavy flamers to 10 pts
- SWS: fix grenades issues: gives standard frag and give krak option

HEAVY SUPPORT
- deathsitrike: apocalypse only
- manticore: apocalypse only
- bassie: reduce blind spot
- punisher: AP 5 or 4. such a big gun! Also 20pts cheaper tank. Cool idea but now is useless.
- exterminator 5-10 pts cheaper as cannot compete with Hydra
- vanquisher: AP1, maybe co-axial gun

out

All of those suggestions look good, bar the Manticore and Deathstrike suggestions. They are good in normal gamers, and there aslready is a more powerful, apoc version of the Deathstrike. It is the Vortex Missile. Manticores are not OP and should remain in 40k.

Other than a lasgun option for the sarge I can't say as I want much to change, honestly.

I'd like ST a lot more if their hotshot lasguns were assault weapons, and I think the flyers are underpriced. Be nice to see the Vulture added, and some of the Death Korps weapons (thudd gun, heavy mortar, TL heavy stubber teams) for people who want to use the FW minis.

I don't have any major wishlists or complaints, though.

Deadshot wrote:My thoughts are in all the colours.

Duce wrote:make the punisher twinlinked heavy 20, more likely to get good amount of shots hitting. simple buff which might make it worthwhile a bit more (plus small price drop of say 30 points?).

I would say one or the other. Points drop would be better, as the Punisher is not TL. Besides, TL H20 means 15~ hits at Str 5. That is going to shred any horde worth their Fleshboror, Shoota/Lasguns. Combined with -30pts is going to make it the premium in Anti Infantry, and make Hellhounds and such irrelavent other than for extremly low points, or places like CoD where cover saves are all the rage.

buff ogryns to have 2 autocannons or something per squad or give them massive shields for cover saves to allow them to get into hand to hand safer?

SS might be a bit OP, so maybe a Combat Shiled, so a 6++? If you want cover, go with a 5+ cover. For modelling you could use Rhino front plates and Land Raider dorrs, and Chimera hatches and the like.

Ratlings, give them a lasr pointer type effect where if they shoot at a unit (even if can't hurt it) artillery either rerolls scatter if you want, or becomes a hit (second option might need toyed with as quite powerful).

Why not just give them a watered down Markerlight?

deathstrike launchers need something to make them appeal as much as manticores. maybe make it you get to choose when to fire the shot but never on turn 1, meaning you have to wait 1 turn before getting option to fire it allowing enemy to spread out

How about you have to note what turn you want to come in on, like with the Scheduled Bombardment in Apoc and each Weapon destroyed, or destroyed result delays it 1 turn?

instead of buffing the chimera maybe add in another heavier armoured transport? say 12/12/11 comes with 2x autocannon on a turret or TL autocannon.

I don't have an opinion.

Add a new transport for assault guard say 13/12/10 no top hatch, but comes with assault ramp and can contain 35 guardsmen max, meaning you can blob up 30 men a commissar or 2 and priest or hq lord commi.


Not, definately not. Nothing outside of Apoc should be able to carry that much. Not only that but it would break Objective games. 30 troop models flying around in 13/12/11 transport, controlling any objectives, then having a full blob to kill to clear it.

I like the quarter maste ridea for advisor. maybe make him allow D3 squads to become twinlinked or gain 1 extra shot than normally allowed, or even 1 gun fires twice, but doesn't work on artillery to keep from masses of blasts appearing?

I don't have an opinion.

Stormtroopers need buffed I agree, maybe make them never scatter when deepstriking to add the elite aspct and also making them much more reliable. also maybe a ''Well trained'' rule that lets them reroll dangerous terrain if dropping into cover?

One or the other, one or the other.

Rough riders maybe allow them to always use the lance on firs tround of combat not just first charge. also maybe allow them to ''turbo boost'' 19 inches to allow them move speed?

The lances are hard to maneuver around, but easy when charging to spear someone. But not turbo boost. 18" move+fleet+charge?

maybe make the TL autocannon russ into a TL lascannon russ to give it a non competing with hydras role? means giving it a hull lascannon really helps its anti tank.

There is already a TL LC LR. It is the Leman Russ Annihilator from FW.

lord commi should get a buff ot make him more than a take for camo cloak option. maybe make him an upgrade for command squads for more CC and a commissar type buff to the army?

I prefer him the way he is.

primis psyker needs more powers, then he could be of more use? maybe if him and a astropath are on the table you can control when you want reserves, no rolling due to such a well sorted psychic signal?

Maybe if there is Astropaths on the tale, you get +1 ior -1 reserves for each Astropath over the first. And he can extend the range of a PBS' powers by 6" if he joins them.

allow sgts to take lasguns,

Yes. Give it to them as a standard. Like saying they have a Lasgun or laspistol.

alter how wounds effect heavy weapon teams so you don't lose entire stands to single lascannon shots etc, so people will use them more. maybe even a 4+ one crew member dies not both? or give them the option of fortified to add cover save. maybe +1 to make for 3+ saves

Just limit them to being ID by weapons that have Blasts/Templates.

my eyes, they bleed!

So, I skipped some of the lovely bickering a few pages back but here's my thoughts, sorry if I'm repeating what others have said:

On the HWS front, giving each base the Eternal Warrior and Vulnerable to Blasts/Templates USR's seems both balanced and would fit within the rules - shouldn't even require a points change. Since Eternal Warrior only applies to the Instant Death rule, doubling wounds from Blasts/Templates would still kill 'em just as easy.

Ogryn squads being allowed Commissars as an upgrade seems to be not only a good game mechanic but also quite fluffy.

Stormtroopers with WS4 does make sense to me, they should be on par with a Junior Officer in skill.

To fix Hellguns, take inspiration from Dark Heresy:
R 18" S3 AP4 Rapid Fire Tearing*

*Tearing weapons cause horrific wounds. Such weapons allow the user to re-roll the to-wound dice.

Hotshot lasguns should be left as Sniper Rifles, A La Gaunt's Ghosts & 3rd-ed Codex onwards.

Otherwise, I think most of the current codex is quite balanced, apart from the obvious problems with Elites. I like combined squads, but I'd like there to be an option for Assault Squads again, to represent crazy feral troopers. Maybe an Assault Platoon option in the troops section, with a divide between Line Platoons (Inf squads, HWS, Conscripts) and Assault Platoons (Assault Squads, SWS)?

Manticores are fine as they are. HE and AP are two different types of warhead in RL for a reason. The rules shouldn't all be about killing MEQ - after all, the guard mainly fights other humans or Orks.

Doctrines back, in terms of unlocking certain units and changes to the force org chart, would be cool as well. Fielding a Storm Trooper, Rough Rider or Armoured Company with the right HQ choices would be fluffy and cool. Probably not that competitive, but fluffy and fun.

The 'Commissar as standard' idea for Conscripts sounds pretty good too. Lord Commissars are just a little too vulnerable as is.

Possibly more advisors/supply chain features would be good as well. Instead of taking a Master of Ordnance, there should be an Artillery Spotter option somewhere - a Salamander, SWS or HWS with Infiltrate that can call in strikes from off-board. I always find it a bit weird having Mobile Artillery within punching distance.

*Edit* Perhaps an Imperial Tactician advisor? Gives Preferred Enemy to Guard units within 12" (except Ogryns and Ratlings?) Or maybe different Advisors give access to different orders for the CC?

Oh, and one last thing - voxes increasing range of orders, great idea. Makes so much more sense!

I claim innocence in the beeding eyes, it was Deadshot who use my post to comment on, not me :p

regardnig my comments, their all just half mused ideas, so don't take any as thats what it should be.

I would like some fo the othe runits you hear people suggest liek the commissar school squad, it could make for a nice HTH unit without stepping on proper CC armies toes, maybe take them as a bodyguard squad for the lord commissar?

AtoMaki wrote:

Sieggfried wrote:To all those who want WS4 for vets or stromies, 3+ saves, T4 or STR4 and even both, to those who want beefed up Hellguns and the lot just go buy yourselves some Mehreens and stop playing IG.

So, by this logic: To all those who want to play a WW2 style army with massed infantry and tanks marching ever onwards, destroying its enemies with shooting, arty and numbers just go buy yourselves some Flames of War and stop playing IG.

Pretty much. That's what I already recommend to anyone wanting to start an IG army. "Decent people shouldn't live here. They'd be happier somewhere else."

The doctrine system of the previous codex was pretty cool, as it allowed you to really theme your army. Also, make vets elites and slightly better, with them being stealthy sabotage style light infantry and the stormtroopers more 'kick down the door and blow it up' style heavy shock infantry. Heavy stubbers as special weapons would be great too.

The doctrine system didn't work fairly IMO, it definatly wasn't as stream-lined as GW has been trying to make the game. I definatly don't expect to see that one coming back from the codex graveyard.